Apple debuts new $5999 Mac Pro with up to 28-core Xeon processors

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  • Reply 401 of 420
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,122member
    DuhSesame said:
    melgross said:
    DuhSesame said:
    melgross said:
    DuhSesame said:
    melgross said:
    DuhSesame said:
    melgross said:

    ..., a different machine is then needed, and depending on the work involved, it can be a new model Mini, a decked out 25” iMac, and iMac pro, or the new Mac Pro.

    Just remember that these laptop chips, while they may have the same top level designations as the desktop models, are NOT the desktop models, and don’t perform as well.
    Except not really.
    a mobile i7 is used to be faster than desktop i5s (now you can only count the i9), the Mac mini we have is still using the same processor for mobiles, but in a different power setting (its actual performance is closer to i9-8950HK).  The difference in performance is nigh.

    I can accept that laptops are noisier and hotter, but as long they can run most of their tasks without throttling, then I’ll say it’s problem-free and competent.  Let’s also be honest that modern mini or even iMacs isn’t that cool and quiet and throttles thanks to Intel.

    The problem we have today is Intel itself is incompetent, yet we have no other alternatives.
    Well, to be fair, you have to compare the same equivalent lines. You don’t compare a mobile i7 to a desktop i5, you compare it to a Desktop i7. If you say that you have the most powerful Macbook Pro, and it’s too slow, then look to the most powerful iMac instead, and I don’t mean the Pro model, unless you really need that.

    intel isn’t incompetent. AMD isn’t great either. Intel has been trying to do something with 10nm that turns out to be extremely difficult. Other manufacturers have taken the easier road there, and so seemingly pulled ahead. Intel mostly competes against itself. If they don’t have better chips, their sales fall, and so does their profit. That affects R&D spending too, which affects future products. They tried to get ahead of the game by doing too much with the architecture. Now they’ve finally got it working. Their newest chips have a good performance enhancement.
    Truth is it’s not far behind, it’s less than 20%.
    https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i7_7700k-664-vs-intel_core_i7_7920hq-692
    https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i9_8950hk-851-vs-intel_core_i7_8700k-763

    The reason I’m comparing desktop i5 to mobile i7 is because an i5 isn’t slow at all, they’re somewhere mid-to-high-tier.

    Speaking of Intel, they’ve just announced Ice Lake couple weeks ago, everyone agreed it’s less promising than what AMD offers.  Zen 2 is offering 12 cores, new process and lower consumption all at once, while Ice Lake merely improves the IPC.  Just getting rid of 14nm isn’t an achievement as TSMC announced 7nm a year earlier, let alone having mobile processors as strong as A12X, where all of the ultrabooks I knew throttles despite being actively cooled!  If anything, Intel is pulling the legs of mobile processors, but ironically we don’t have people that can do better, yet.

    I don’t know what AMD is doing in HPC, that would have different requirements there, but it’s clear that Intel is failing in the consumer market.
    20% is the difference between running comfortably, and pegging the meter. At the highest levels, power draw and heat are much worse than just a bit lower. Remember that power draw is measured at the top of the curve, not for average use.

    ”everyone agreed” means nothing to me. Who is this everyone?
    Everyone who builds their own PC.

    20% (and below) isn’t night & day as you’d suggest, in reality is merely few seconds depending on your workload.  Do you really think less than 1/5 the difference will speeds up your productivity by a half?  If it’s slow on that laptop, it will be slow on that desktop too.
    Saying that desktop variants are way faster is not the case at all.

    Yeah, ultrabooks draws twice or three times the power, yet won’t outrun something fan-less.  That shows how embarrassing the 8th gen really is.
    If you’re rendering a fair size project, 20% could easily be 30 minutes, or even a hour. In my company, 10% made a difference. Going to the really high end, new model mainframes rarely are more than 6% faster than the current model, but there’s a frenzy of upgrading and buying, because where they’re used, that 6% means a lot.

    even if you save a couple of seconds, on work where there’s a flow of creativity, jerking around damages that flow. So there, productivity is adversely affected. Yes. This is something that there’s writing about.

    i don’t get why you’re dissing 20%. That’s a lot, not a little. There will never again be the gains we saw in the past. Not with the semiconductor technology we’re still using. Both AMD and Intel, as well as TSMC have stated that moving down more process steps will see less gains, and higher cost per transistor. That’s the iron law of quantum mechanics.
    iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Pro, they’re all mainstream products, which means people who bought them will have different usages & experience than workstations.  20% for your company is significant, but individuals have lots of time and not cutting TV shows to make a profit.  Let’s not forget they’re all six and eight-core machines, so for the tasks they do, the difference is negligible.  Looking for an iMac to replace MacBook Pro for your tasks isn’t much faster, but workstations with 20% more cores will.

    I would agree on you if you’re talking about GPUs, but for CPUs, most people founds that even an i5 is fast enough for everything they do, nor there are anything only an i7 will do.
    What you’re doing is setting an argument not to upgrade.
  • Reply 402 of 420
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    mattinoz said:
    Apple (as is their standard MO) will no doubt be working to get cost of the shell and other modules down in price.
    Sadly, this has not been Apple's standard MO for several years.

    Apple's new MO is to jack up prices (it is deeply ironic that the most expensive Mac - the new Mac Pro - is the only Mac that is actually good value these days) and I don't know who I'm more annoyed with - Tim Cook for introducing/allowing this policy, or for the people who are sucking it up and buying Macs anyway (especially MacBook Pros).
    What about mini?
    What about it? It's crappy value for money and the prices Apple asks for storage and memory upgrades are unjustifiable.
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    It used to be that when you specced-up a PC to match a Mac, you found the Mac was actually competitive price-wise. This is sadly no longer true, especially for 15" MBP:


    A Dell XPS (aluminium unibody chassis with carbon-fibre palm-rests) with:
    • 15" 3840 x 2160 display
    • 97 WHr Battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050Ti with 4 GiB GDDR5
    costs $2099

    A MBP with:
    • 15" Retina (2880 x 1800) display
    • 83.6 WHr battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • Radeon Pro 555X with 4 GiB of GDDR5 memory
    costs $2599

    It's like Apple and their customers haven't noticed that PC manufacturers finally woke up a few years ago and started producing laptops that are just as good as the MBP, for less money.

    What about bus, ports, and software? Microsoft charge $199 for Windows Pro for features built into OS X/macOS.
    Bus: Presumably you are talking about memory here? It's DDR4-2400 on the MacBook Pro and DDR4-2666 on the Dell

    Ports: MacBook Pro has four thunderbolt 3 ports and a 3.5 mm headphone jack. The Dell has an SD card slot, two USB 3.1 Gen 1 (USB-A) ports, HDMI 2.0, a Thunderbolt 3 port, and a 3.5 mm headphone jack.

    Software: Windows Pro 10 on the Dell is $60 extra.

    Honestly, it makes me sick that Dell makes a significantly better value high-end laptop than Apple - I never thought such a thing would happen. If I could run macOS on it, I'd buy the Dell.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 403 of 420
    nealc5nealc5 Posts: 38member
    wozwoz said:
    Wow - this so Pro they might sell 100 of them. Cheese grater design is boring. After the criticism of the R2D2 Mac Pro for not being pro enough (when Apple didn't even offer upgrade options over 5 years!), they have gone to the other extreme and produced a machine that only a tiny proportion of Pro users will want, or be able to justify. Apple have lurched far too far to the other extreme. 
    Same goes for the monitor:  they should be providing a suite of monitors in different sizes for different users - not some ridiculously over-specced $6000 32 inch monitor with a an optional $1000 stand.
    There are so many good 4K monitors out in the world now, that Apple doesn't NEED to make something for everyone.  So they are sticking to the highest end.  If you don't want the Apple one, you can buy this Dell 8K monitor (https://www.cinema5d.com/dells-new-8k-monitor-is-gorgeous-and-really-really-expensive/) or 4K one (https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-ultra-hd-4k-monitor-with-premiercolor-up3216q/apd/210-AFLN/monitors-monitor-accessories).  Lots of choices.

    Apple does have other Pro options available.  You can buy an iMac Pro, higher-end iMac, or even a Mac Mini.  And they will sell thousands of these. Not a lot of profit, or volume, but this needed to be done.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 404 of 420
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,752member
    melgross said:
    I think this entire discussion boils down to the point of; “I have a laptop and it’s getting too hot, and not performing the way I think it should. I also think that I shouldn’t have to buy a Desktop to get my work done.”
    is that about it?
    Nope. :) I don't have a laptop anymore, btw (well, I turned one into a server, but I mean as my work machine).

    The point is that Apple seems to be pushing the 'whole laptop is a desktop' thing, and a heck of a lot of the user-base is using them that way. How many software developers are running on MBPs with a 'dock' at the office? They are almost standard issue. How many videos promoting video editing show the users doing so with a MBP 'docked' to a couple huge monitors and maybe a storage RAID?

    My point is that it shouldn't matter how one uses it, the thermal margin should be such that it won't destroy itself depending on how the user uses it. A 'pro' labeled machine kind of comes with an assumption someone might run professional software on it from time to time. The difference should be one of performance (how fast they get it done), not whether it lasts or breaks.

    alysdexia said:
    Why would you appreciate nescient design?  and the display isn't nescient.
    Apple: singular or plural, make up your mind.
    db = decibits; dB = decibels.  (By the way intensity readings don't mean anything without range.)
    You didn't learn a thing from my first comment.  Not "faster"; fast is not moving.
    Huh? (Do you have a point, or are you pretending to be Grammar Girl?)

    DuhSesame said:
    I would agree on you if you’re talking about GPUs, but for CPUs, most people founds that even an i5 is fast enough for everything they do, nor there are anything only an i7 will do.
    The big thing for me was Hyper-Threading. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the i5 on my mini. While I haven't tested it, I'm pretty sure there is a gain to have more 'cores' (even if they are virtual) for running lots of stuff.
  • Reply 405 of 420
    thttht Posts: 4,131member
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    mattinoz said:
    Apple (as is their standard MO) will no doubt be working to get cost of the shell and other modules down in price.
    Sadly, this has not been Apple's standard MO for several years.

    Apple's new MO is to jack up prices (it is deeply ironic that the most expensive Mac - the new Mac Pro - is the only Mac that is actually good value these days) and I don't know who I'm more annoyed with - Tim Cook for introducing/allowing this policy, or for the people who are sucking it up and buying Macs anyway (especially MacBook Pros).
    What about mini?
    What about it? It's crappy value for money and the prices Apple asks for storage and memory upgrades are unjustifiable.
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    It used to be that when you specced-up a PC to match a Mac, you found the Mac was actually competitive price-wise. This is sadly no longer true, especially for 15" MBP:


    A Dell XPS (aluminium unibody chassis with carbon-fibre palm-rests) with:
    • 15" 3840 x 2160 display
    • 97 WHr Battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050Ti with 4 GiB GDDR5
    costs $2099

    A MBP with:
    • 15" Retina (2880 x 1800) display
    • 83.6 WHr battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • Radeon Pro 555X with 4 GiB of GDDR5 memory
    costs $2599

    It's like Apple and their customers haven't noticed that PC manufacturers finally woke up a few years ago and started producing laptops that are just as good as the MBP, for less money.

    What about bus, ports, and software? Microsoft charge $199 for Windows Pro for features built into OS X/macOS.
    Bus: Presumably you are talking about memory here? It's DDR4-2400 on the MacBook Pro and DDR4-2666 on the Dell

    Ports: MacBook Pro has four thunderbolt 3 ports and a 3.5 mm headphone jack. The Dell has an SD card slot, two USB 3.1 Gen 1 (USB-A) ports, HDMI 2.0, a Thunderbolt 3 port, and a 3.5 mm headphone jack.

    Software: Windows Pro 10 on the Dell is $60 extra.

    Honestly, it makes me sick that Dell makes a significantly better value high-end laptop than Apple - I never thought such a thing would happen. If I could run macOS on it, I'd buy the Dell.
    Can you provide a link to the Dell system? It appears Dell has pulled back on the custom to order or configurability of its systems, and I can’t find a Dell XPS 15 model with the same processor. Heck, I don’t even know how to get to the 3820x2160 display option to turn on.

    And aren’t you playing the old game of more specs equal more value? At minimum those paper specs have to translate to real world performance, and you should be looking at test results over paper descriptions of the hardware.
  • Reply 406 of 420
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,133member
    cgWerks said:
    DuhSesame said:
    I would agree on you if you’re talking about GPUs, but for CPUs, most people founds that even an i5 is fast enough for everything they do, nor there are anything only an i7 will do.
    The big thing for me was Hyper-Threading. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the i5 on my mini. While I haven't tested it, I'm pretty sure there is a gain to have more 'cores' (even if they are virtual) for running lots of stuff.
    Actually, the 9th-generation i5 does offer Hyper-threading but not the i7.  Meanwhile, AMD just announced their 16-core Ryzen 9 for $750, which more like a cheap workstation than a mainstream PC.

    This is nuts.
  • Reply 407 of 420
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    tht said:
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    mattinoz said:
    Apple (as is their standard MO) will no doubt be working to get cost of the shell and other modules down in price.
    Sadly, this has not been Apple's standard MO for several years.

    Apple's new MO is to jack up prices (it is deeply ironic that the most expensive Mac - the new Mac Pro - is the only Mac that is actually good value these days) and I don't know who I'm more annoyed with - Tim Cook for introducing/allowing this policy, or for the people who are sucking it up and buying Macs anyway (especially MacBook Pros).
    What about mini?
    What about it? It's crappy value for money and the prices Apple asks for storage and memory upgrades are unjustifiable.
    alysdexia said:
    mr. h said:
    It used to be that when you specced-up a PC to match a Mac, you found the Mac was actually competitive price-wise. This is sadly no longer true, especially for 15" MBP:


    A Dell XPS (aluminium unibody chassis with carbon-fibre palm-rests) with:
    • 15" 3840 x 2160 display
    • 97 WHr Battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050Ti with 4 GiB GDDR5
    costs $2099

    A MBP with:
    • 15" Retina (2880 x 1800) display
    • 83.6 WHr battery
    • 512 GB SSD
    • 6-core Intel i7
    • 16 GiB RAM
    • Radeon Pro 555X with 4 GiB of GDDR5 memory
    costs $2599

    It's like Apple and their customers haven't noticed that PC manufacturers finally woke up a few years ago and started producing laptops that are just as good as the MBP, for less money.

    What about bus, ports, and software? Microsoft charge $199 for Windows Pro for features built into OS X/macOS.
    Bus: Presumably you are talking about memory here? It's DDR4-2400 on the MacBook Pro and DDR4-2666 on the Dell

    Ports: MacBook Pro has four thunderbolt 3 ports and a 3.5 mm headphone jack. The Dell has an SD card slot, two USB 3.1 Gen 1 (USB-A) ports, HDMI 2.0, a Thunderbolt 3 port, and a 3.5 mm headphone jack.

    Software: Windows Pro 10 on the Dell is $60 extra.

    Honestly, it makes me sick that Dell makes a significantly better value high-end laptop than Apple - I never thought such a thing would happen. If I could run macOS on it, I'd buy the Dell.
    Can you provide a link to the Dell system? It appears Dell has pulled back on the custom to order or configurability of its systems, and I can’t find a Dell XPS 15 model with the same processor. Heck, I don’t even know how to get to the 3820x2160 display option to turn on.

    And aren’t you playing the old game of more specs equal more value? At minimum those paper specs have to translate to real world performance, and you should be looking at test results over paper descriptions of the hardware.
    Dell's website remains as crap as ever - one page gives you no BTO options whilst another does, and I'm not sure how I found the BTO option. On the UK site, I can't find it! Here's the US one:

    https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15-laptop/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/dycwb1647h?ref=p13n_rv_hp

    You have to scroll down a bit to select the high-res display.

    The "old game of more specs equal more value" used to be played against the MacBook Pro where folk would go: "but this PC has the same (or better) specs and is $500 cheaper"!! But then you'd go and look at it and find out it has a significantly inferior screen, a smaller battery, is made of plastic, is literally 2.5 times the size (by volume) and 1.5 times the weight - i.e. not a like-for-like comparison.

    That's not what's happening here. The Dell is also an aluminium unibody machine with comparable size, weight, and battery life. OK, IMHO it is uglier than the MacBook Pro, but to compensate, it has a better screen and a better array of ports. Oh, and it's $500 cheaper!

    Here's a comparison of last year's models:


    edited June 2019
  • Reply 408 of 420
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,122member
    cgWerks said:
    melgross said:
    I think this entire discussion boils down to the point of; “I have a laptop and it’s getting too hot, and not performing the way I think it should. I also think that I shouldn’t have to buy a Desktop to get my work done.”
    is that about it?
    Nope. :) I don't have a laptop anymore, btw (well, I turned one into a server, but I mean as my work machine).

    The point is that Apple seems to be pushing the 'whole laptop is a desktop' thing, and a heck of a lot of the user-base is using them that way. How many software developers are running on MBPs with a 'dock' at the office? They are almost standard issue. How many videos promoting video editing show the users doing so with a MBP 'docked' to a couple huge monitors and maybe a storage RAID?

    My point is that it shouldn't matter how one uses it, the thermal margin should be such that it won't destroy itself depending on how the user uses it. A 'pro' labeled machine kind of comes with an assumption someone might run professional software on it from time to time. The difference should be one of performance (how fast they get it done), not whether it lasts or breaks.

    You keep saying that it shouldn’t destroy itself, and I keep saying that you’re right, it shouldn’t. The difference between our stances it that we disagree as to the ability of a laptop to complete a very heavy workload when compared to an obviously better equipped Desktop. That’s really about it.
  • Reply 409 of 420
    thttht Posts: 4,131member
    mr. h said:
    tht said:
    Can you provide a link to the Dell system? It appears Dell has pulled back on the custom to order or configurability of its systems, and I can’t find a Dell XPS 15 model with the same processor. Heck, I don’t even know how to get to the 3820x2160 display option to turn on.

    And aren’t you playing the old game of more specs equal more value? At minimum those paper specs have to translate to real world performance, and you should be looking at test results over paper descriptions of the hardware.
    Dell's website remains as crap as ever - one page gives you no BTO options whilst another does, and I'm not sure how I found the BTO option. On the UK site, I can't find it! Here's the US one:

    https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15-laptop/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/dycwb1647h?ref=p13n_rv_hp

    You have to scroll down a bit to select the high-res display.
    Looks like Dell has not updated to 9th gen processors yet, unless it is there and we just can’t find it. So the CPU in the MBP15 is a Core i7-9750H at 2.6 GHz base and 4.5 GHz turbo while the XPS15 has a i7-8750H at 2.2 GHz base and 4.1 GHz turbo. The SSD on the MBP is about 2 to 5 times faster if your linked YouTuber did everything right.

    The GTX 1050 is faster than the Radeon 555X is for most things, so for games and CUDA apps, it’s a win. You don’t buy these laptops for gaming, so it’s really up to the buyer using a CUDA workflow or not. They shouldn’t really make a decision solely on that though, but other features could make the Radeon 555X an acceptable compromise. But if someone has CUDA workflow, Macs really aren’t a good option. Same with gaming. They never were a good option to begin with.

    If you like to transcode HEVC videos though, I would highly recommend the MBP as it has an HEVC ASIC in that will make transcodes a lot faster than the XPS. This is the single largest compute job for my home PC, and I wish I had it.

    mr. h said:
    The "old game of more specs equal more value" used to be played against the MacBook Pro where folk would go: "but this PC has the same (or better) specs and is $500 cheaper"!! But then you'd go and look at it and find out it has a significantly inferior screen, a smaller battery, is made of plastic, is literally 2.5 times the size (by volume) and 1.5 times the weight - i.e. not a like-for-like comparison.


    That's not what's happening here. The Dell is also an aluminium unibody machine with comparable size, weight, and battery life. OK, IMHO it is uglier than the MacBook Pro, but to compensate, it has a better screen and a better array of ports. Oh, and it's $500 cheaper!
    You are still comparing paper “specs”.

    The YouTuber said the Dell 4K display was better. I wouldn’t touch it whatsoever because it is a 16:9 display. The 16:10 on the MBP is perhaps the minimum for what I do. Don’t understand how MS Office users aren’t driven to insanity with the ribbon, title bars, entry bar, status bars, who knows what else taking up a third of the vertical display space, if not more. And this is a better situation than the old Office UI which could have rows upon rows of toolbars taking up half the display. Then, who knows what the state of Windows’ PPI scaling is. Don’t know if it has been fixed yet, otherwise using a 1920x1080 points per inch on a 15” display is a too small for me. The specs have to translate to something you like.

    Other things of value. You think the XPS is uglier than the MBP. For some, that’s $500 of value. It matters, and that’s why Apple works at have great ID. They are trying to get the 10% of the market who really value this. Even the thermal design has consequences. The vents of the XPS15 are on the bottom, necessitating some rather large and tall feet. This makes the XPS15 taller on a table and might make it harder to type for some people. For laptop bags, those feet might mean it takes up more volume, like if a person has text books in their books. The vents are on the bottom, so this may make using it on a lap or a soft/pliant surface less pleasant to use. 

    Does it really have a better array of ports? The MBP can drive 2 5120x2880 displays. It’s basically the only real choice for doing that. For videographers with 10s of GB to TB of data they need to transfer? Having multiple USBC ports is really nice, especially with a super fast SSD. The 2x to 5x SSD speed difference could matter.

    Heck, the XPS comes with McAfee. That better be completely removable. If not, you’ll have to spend like $200 on a Windows license so that you can completely wipe, format and install a Windows load without those special bits of software that comes in all these PCs.

    The specs have to translate to something you like.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 410 of 420
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,752member
    melgross said:
    You keep saying that it shouldn’t destroy itself, and I keep saying that you’re right, it shouldn’t. The difference between our stances it that we disagree as to the ability of a laptop to complete a very heavy workload when compared to an obviously better equipped Desktop. That’s really about it.
    Then, I think we're in full agreement. But, MBPs (at least in my experience) do destroy themselves if run too hard. I fully agree that most desktops, especially high end ones, can complete a heavier workload, or any workload more quickly.
  • Reply 411 of 420
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    very interesting thread of different thoughts.  many in "too pricy" camp hurt the feelings they might no longer consider"pro" for next gen computing (lawyers? ;-), programmers? home alone graphic designers?, etc.) due to price out.  few in the glorify new machine camp are jalously watch in marvel but can no longer justify purchase due to some what limited application during our daily life (more or less retired from the cutting edge/bleeding edge, like private citizen instead of corp).  The machine in question is balanced approach - integrated enough key components to ensure the performance (nowadays, you really can't walk off the chip that much, any fan out point scream slow back at you, or trouble for impedence balance), but left open for tinkers put his/her hands on - really not an average joe's machine (of course, you can buy it as collectable, eye candy for engineering....hard to justify in my case for downsize, simplify walk towards sunset... but the urge, the weak knee call it out to may be just jump in to the fry pan again, so I can "legally" get "pro" status once more? can think million things to do with it, but not in the position to make any money of it ;-).  With all the spec readers - ix, etc. design is not only about the spec, you iphoneholder should know it well - chinese handset got more ram, memory than iphone, due to insufficient resource use plus bloadware software (bad programming plus spyware too).  performance is the key, take your eyes off the spec, focus on function per price and function  per weight for example, IMHO.  
  • Reply 412 of 420
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,133member
    cgWerks said:
    melgross said:
    You keep saying that it shouldn’t destroy itself, and I keep saying that you’re right, it shouldn’t. The difference between our stances it that we disagree as to the ability of a laptop to complete a very heavy workload when compared to an obviously better equipped Desktop. That’s really about it.
    Then, I think we're in full agreement. But, MBPs (at least in my experience) do destroy themselves if run too hard. I fully agree that most desktops, especially high end ones, can complete a heavier workload, or any workload more quickly.
    Raw-spec wise, I doubt most desktops got an i9, most likely older i7s or Ryzen.
  • Reply 413 of 420
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,752member
    DuhSesame said:
    Raw-spec wise, I doubt most desktops got an i9, most likely older i7s or Ryzen.
    Yeah, we have to be careful about the term 'most' I guess. I think the point in our discussion assumed we were talking about MacBook Pros vs the more professional end of desktops/workstations/servers, etc. A laptop just can't compete with that stuff in terms of output/scale. But, my point was that the 'pro' labeled laptop shouldn't melt-down when people run professional stuff on it, it should just do the work at a slower pace.

    I wasn't expecting my MBP to get the rending job done as quickly, and I distributed the bulk of it to a whole rack of servers and other desktop machines at my disposal. I just didn't expect that including my MBP in the mix was going to prematurely end it. And, when I see the setups of many YouTubers and other video professionals in regards to the MBP, unless something has changed, they will find out the same thing I did, the hard way.
    edited June 2019
  • Reply 414 of 420
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,122member
    DuhSesame said:
    cgWerks said:
    DuhSesame said:
    I would agree on you if you’re talking about GPUs, but for CPUs, most people founds that even an i5 is fast enough for everything they do, nor there are anything only an i7 will do.
    The big thing for me was Hyper-Threading. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the i5 on my mini. While I haven't tested it, I'm pretty sure there is a gain to have more 'cores' (even if they are virtual) for running lots of stuff.
    Actually, the 9th-generation i5 does offer Hyper-threading but not the i7.  Meanwhile, AMD just announced their 16-core Ryzen 9 for $750, which more like a cheap workstation than a mainstream PC.

    This is nuts.
    While I would need to see the latest test results, which aren’t out, what we’ve been seeing is that AMD is “winning” the race for more cores, Intel is winning the race for best core performance.

    so really, it depends on what you do with your machine.
  • Reply 415 of 420
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    alysdexia said:
    Crap is a noun;
    In British English it is also an adjective; I am British.

    alysdexia said:
    go what?
    "go" definition from the Oxford English dictionary:

    verb … 
    informal say: the kids go, ‘Yeah, sure.’

    alysdexia said:
    and; alumium.
    If you are going to correct people, you should really make sure you're not making your own stupid mistakes. If you were aiming for the idiotic American version of the word, it's "aluminum". However, I am British so I will continue to spell the word correctly: aluminium.

    alysdexia said:
    slower ports
    The Dell has a single Thunderbolt 3 port, which is sufficient for the intended purpose of connecting a multi-port dock and power over a single cable. The other ports are actually useful, for example if you need to connect a USB stick that has an "A" connector, or connect to a monitor and the only thing available to use is a male HDMI connector (cable already attached to monitor and monitor ports are inaccessible - this scenario has happened to me twice in the last three months).

    alysdexia said:
    3-hour shorter battery life
    The XPS is available with a 3-cell or 6-cell battery. The price I quoted was for a configuration with the 6-cell version. Obviously battery life depends on usage, but I believe that with a 6-cell battery, the XPS battery life is around 1 hour shorter, not 3.

    alysdexia said:
    and stupid 3-star-average Amazon reviews?
    The Amazon review that you quote is clearly from a customer who did not buy the machine direct from Dell. They bought it from a third-party seller that sold it with an unlicensed copy of Windows 10 Pro. If you buy direct from Dell, you can get a legitimate Windows 10 Pro license.

    alysdexia said:
    harder -> touher
    Again, if you're going to "correct" people, make sure you're correct! Does your computer even have a spell-checker? Do you know how to use it?
    edited July 2019 1st
  • Reply 416 of 420
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,108member
    mr. h said:

    alysdexia said:
    and; alumium.
    If you are going to correct people, you should really make sure you're not making your own stupid mistakes. If you were aiming for the idiotic American version of the word, it's "aluminum". However, I am British so I will continue to spell the word correctly: aluminium.

    I’m usually all on the side of the British when it comes to these things, but this is one where you have it wrong: 

    Many of the metal elements have -um endings: plumbum, aurum, ferrum, platinum, etc.
    “Aluminum” is the name originally given to the element after its chemical isolation.  

    The British added an “i” to the ending to make it sound more “classical”. 
  • Reply 417 of 420
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    Crap is a noun;
    In British English it is also an adjective; I am British.

    Wicked moderator deleted me. shit was first used as adjective, instead of ablative/appositive, by Ernest Hemingway in a daze until he shot himself so that he didn't die of his Irishness. There are already adjectival forms for shit and crap; you did not use them.
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    go what?
    "go" definition from the Oxford English dictionary:


    verb … informal say: the kids go, ‘Yeah, sure.’

    You broke off my full statement.
    mr. h said:
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    and; alumium.
    If you are going to correct people, you should really make sure you're not making your own stupid mistakes. If you were aiming for the idiotic American version of the word, it's "aluminum". However, I am British so I will continue to spell the word correctly: aluminium.
    I made no stupid mistakes, unlike you. Look it up.  Also if you're British why did you use double quotes?
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    slower ports
    The Dell has a single Thunderbolt 3 port, which is sufficient for the intended purpose of connecting a multi-port dock and power over a single cable. The other ports are actually useful, for example if you need to connect a USB stick that has an "A" connector, or connect to a monitor and the only thing available to use is a male HDMI connector (cable already attached to monitor and monitor ports are inaccessible - this scenario has happened to me twice in the last three months).
    All of these can be accessed over Wi-Fi.
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    3-hour shorter battery life
    The XPS is available with a 3-cell or 6-cell battery. The price I quoted was for a configuration with the 6-cell version. Obviously battery life depends on usage, but I believe that with a 6-cell battery, the XPS battery life is around 1 hour shorter, not 3.
    imaginary battery? https://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/19/help-me-choose/hmc-battery-consumer-laptop. Why even post your belief?
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    and stupid 3-star-average Amazon reviews?
    The Amazon review that you quote is clearly from a customer who did not buy the machine direct from Dell. They bought it from a third-party seller that sold it with an unlicensed copy of Windows 10 Pro. If you buy direct from Dell, you can get a legitimate Windows 10 license.
    A customer is a person, not a they. Is this another of your beliefs or can you verify Dell's tool can reinstall Windows Pro? Besides that review look at all of the one-star reviews.
    mr. h said:
    alysdexia said:
    harder -> touher
    Again, if you're going to "correct" people, make sure you're correct! Does your computer even have a spell-checker? Do you know how to use it?
    I'm the spellchecker. This is how I deliberately reformedly spell; touher has no Norman yogh.
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 418 of 420
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    All of these can be accessed over Wi-Fi.
    No, they can't.

    Like I said, the Dell website is crap. The table on the "help me choose" page is a generic one that bears no relevance to the XPS 15 range. The XPS 15 is available with a 3-cell battery with 56 WHr capacity, or a 6-cell one with 97 WHr capacity.

    A customer is a person, not a they.
    As I do not know the gender of the person in question, "they" is the correct pronoun.
  • Reply 419 of 420
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    oh, brother! I wish there is some kind of AI backed translator to take original post including syntax of C/C++ translated to proper format that satisfy blood pressure low boiling chaps (selectable to regional language your liking)... hmm, you mean there is no "App" for it yet? 
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 420 of 420
    damn_its_hotdamn_its_hot Posts: 1,193member
    mr. h said:
    Damn! That display too!

    This is going to be $$$$$$$$$$$$$
    That really isn't that high when you look back (to the end of the 80s). As a developer it was not unusual to spend same kinda of money (with the massive dev discount). Your new acquisition would typically have 2-3 large color monitors ( and matching # video cards with max memory ) and maybe a Kong from your last Mac. 4-16G SIMMs which I always chopped 75% of into a RAM disk where I would mirror my source, MPW, ResEdit... then the Mac itself with a bunch. Boy did that Moto '040 or PowerPC 603 - 605 would really scream ¡¡ It is all relative -- thank God we got away from the Moto and especially the PowerPC world so we code move to a mixture of the CISC/RISC architecture with the Intel
    where they were slower to get them out but most of the time they made big jumps and there was now wall at 3 ghz.

    Besides who need to cook eggs or grill cheese on their machine /s  B)


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