Just speculation, but I think over time Apple intends to bifurcate the user base and eventually the iPad will take over most of the laptop space (MacBook and MBA) and the Mac line will continue to march upmarket.
Already, most people can meet their computing needs with an iPad or iPad Pro. I would love to see Apple offer a larger screen desktop version of iPadOS on a tilting stand like the Surface Studio. I think Apple could eat the Surface Studio alive and at a better price with a desktop version of iPad OS.
I agree with most of what you're saying here, but I feel iPadOS would need to evolve considerably to challenge the Surface Studio - it's a real workhorse meant for apps like AutoCAD and Adobe InDesign.
Imo the price of the stand could have been a non-issue in the press if Apple had simply announced a $5999 monitor with the bonus of an $800 discount for choosing a VESA adapter instead of the stand. Exact same pricing, exact same components, completely different emphasis. Putting the spotlight on the stand was not good, but the overall presentation was the best WWDC opening Apple has done in a long time. They actually got me excited for iPads again.
The monitor comes with a basic stand in the box. The $1k stand is an extra if you want it, but you have a stand that is standard (pun? In MY comment?) in the box.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent to tell me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
I hope that means the cooling overhead they gave it over the chips TDP.
Macbook pros will run at 99C all day, just a hair away from the Tjunctionmax, the cooler built for not a watt more than their TDP. The 2019 ones are a bit better there, but largely because of the Vega BTO option saving the power over GDDR.
This is not why. That impacted the 2018 Vega ones, but the thermal paste is way, way better on the 2019 than the 2018 or earlier.
'Largely', and the delta between great and meh thermal grease is usually a few degrees. I haven't seen the like for like config tested, Radeon 560X vs Radeon 560X
Right, I understand that you haven't seen that. This is why I'm telling you what we've found out here.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
The idea of removing the screen on an iMac to replace hard drive seemed a bit daunting, but after looking at that tool kit and video from OWC, I may well take that on someday. (Not sure if iMac Pro is same).
Lets hope that one of those lessons is not "Pricing will start at cost X eleventybillion!"
When Intel charges $15k for the 28 core Xeon what do you expect? Just one more reason Apple will sooner-rather-than-later ditch Intel for AMD.
And no, they aren't going ARM people. Just like they aren't building a competing GPGPU--the Afterburner is that secret GPU project from Florida.
How much confidence do you have in Afterburner coming out of the Florida project? Seems like a long time coming. By the way people should be ready for a price shock, FPGA are not cheap by any means.
The problem i have with the new Mac Pro is that it just widens the gap between their run on the mill desktops and the Mac Pro. The high price of this machine just has me wishing that much more for an XMac type machine. That is a box with a desktop processor and a decent video card.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
Imo the price of the stand could have been a non-issue in the press if Apple had simply announced a $5999 monitor with the bonus of an $800 discount for choosing a VESA adapter instead of the stand. Exact same pricing, exact same components, completely different emphasis. Putting the spotlight on the stand was not good, but the overall presentation was the best WWDC opening Apple has done in a long time. They actually got me excited for iPads again.
The monitor comes with a basic stand in the box. The $1k stand is an extra if you want it, but you have a stand that is standard (pun? In MY comment?) in the box.
Do you have a link for that? I've only seen one other mention of an included stand. That maybe the biggest reason for the uproar over the Pro Stand's price.
It may become obvious once the display is available to order, but by now I'd like to have seen Apple mention a basic, included stand, to quell the hysteria.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Imo the price of the stand could have been a non-issue in the press if Apple had simply announced a $5999 monitor with the bonus of an $800 discount for choosing a VESA adapter instead of the stand. Exact same pricing, exact same components, completely different emphasis. Putting the spotlight on the stand was not good, but the overall presentation was the best WWDC opening Apple has done in a long time. They actually got me excited for iPads again.
The monitor comes with a basic stand in the box. The $1k stand is an extra if you want it, but you have a stand that is standard (pun? In MY comment?) in the box.
Do you have a link for that? I've only seen one other mention of an included stand. That maybe the biggest reason for the uproar over the Pro Stand's price.
It may become obvious once the display is available to order, but by now I'd like to have seen Apple mention a basic, included stand, to quell the hysteria.
From a friend/insider (CEO of a company mentioned in the keynote). He wouldn't say how he knows, but he knows.
Lets hope that one of those lessons is not "Pricing will start at cost X eleventybillion!"
Stop being so overdramatic. The Mac Pro is priced similarly to WinTel counterparts of EXACT specs and the monitor is far cheaper than the competitors reference-level monitors. Funny how you folks don't complain about the prices of those monitors.
We do not need Broadcast quality monitors first of all. You do not know if the WinTel counterparts had the same specs. All Ternus said was one priced at $8,000. No one knew the specs. Why did the iMac Pro's basic configuration have a 1TB SSD and the Mac Pro starts at 256 GB. That is being very stingy despite the high cost! Comparing that Studio Display to a Sony BVM is a bit absurd. A $999 monitor stand is just as absurd. No one asked for a 6K monitor anyway. How is it the 27" iMac has a 5K monitor without the "Apple Tax". Apple is just damn Greedy.
"Apple is just damn greedy"? That's a new one. /s
Apple just introduced what is probably the cheapest reference-level monitor in the industry. So sad you think Apple is being greedy.
Apple went to the real "pro" people in the industry. Straight to the source. Apple listened and delivered. Sure "you" don't need broadcast-quality monitors. "We" is not "them (pros).
There are countless monitors you can buy at any price point and performance for the masses, AND thy will work just fine on the Mac Pro. So what's your issue? You want a matching monitor with an Apple logo? Do what I did and buy practically new Apple Thunderbolt-2 monitors for $300 apiece. Buy the LG 5K TB3 monitor? Why hate on Apple for giving the pro crowd something they've been asking for? People like you are a vocal minority, nothing more. Apple's not going to spend millions of dollars and resources for little to no payback.
That argument is just ridiculous. It's not like you can't find decent mid-tier monitors these days, so why would they want Apple to make it? A flagship workstation needs a flagship monitor to pair, how's that wrong?
It really feels like someone wants to criticize just because they can.
Serious question.
It would appear from many of the comments that "pro" is just a popular moniker, so I have to assume that many people posting don't actually generate much income from "pro" work. I'm guessing that's why these same individuals are complaining about price.
Have to pay to play, and even with that, there's financing.
I doubt most people here need a full-fledged workstation, as someone suggests, an "i7-in-a-case" would fit better for their needs.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Honestly, I could make some argument about my computer needs changing in the short-term future (my base-model iMac Pro is fine for me today, but running VMs/simulators as well as training ML models can be quite processor, ram, and storage-intensive), but that is like a parent/child relationship in which I need to justify what I want. That's unacceptable. All I'm asking is for Apple to produce the type of user-upgradeable, prosumer-grade Mac they know consumers like me want, and I'm willing to pay them a price that should easily allow them to maintain their profit margins.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Honestly, I could make some argument about my computer needs changing in the short-term future (my base-model iMac Pro is fine for me today, but running VMs/simulators as well as training ML models can be quite processor, ram, and storage-intensive), but that is like a parent/child relationship in which I need to justify what I want. That's unacceptable. All I'm asking is for Apple to produce the type of user-upgradeable, prosumer-grade Mac they know consumers like me want, and I'm willing to pay them a price that should easily allow them to maintain their profit margins.
So, if Apple doesn't build what you want, and I don't think that they will, then what.
Lets hope that one of those lessons is not "Pricing will start at cost X eleventybillion!"
When Intel charges $15k for the 28 core Xeon what do you expect? Just one more reason Apple will sooner-rather-than-later ditch Intel for AMD.
And no, they aren't going ARM people. Just like they aren't building a competing GPGPU--the Afterburner is that secret GPU project from Florida.
How much confidence do you have in Afterburner coming out of the Florida project? Seems like a long time coming. By the way people should be ready for a price shock, FPGA are not cheap by any means.
The problem i have with the new Mac Pro is that it just widens the gap between their run on the mill desktops and the Mac Pro. The high price of this machine just has me wishing that much more for an XMac type machine. That is a box with a desktop processor and a decent video card.
The “XMac” already exists in the Mac mini.
As @wizard69 has mentioned in a previous post, it may be a smart idea for Apple to re-purpose the trashcan Mac Pro as the "XMac"
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Honestly, I could make some argument about my computer needs changing in the short-term future (my base-model iMac Pro is fine for me today, but running VMs/simulators as well as training ML models can be quite processor, ram, and storage-intensive), but that is like a parent/child relationship in which I need to justify what I want. That's unacceptable. All I'm asking is for Apple to produce the type of user-upgradeable, prosumer-grade Mac they know consumers like me want, and I'm willing to pay them a price that should easily allow them to maintain their profit margins.
So, if Apple doesn't build what you want, and I don't think that they will, then what.
That's a good question. I'm a .Net developer, so of course I could buy or build a PC and use Windows, and it may come to that, but I've come to appreciate a lot of the features of the Apple ecosystem. Flipping back and forth between macOS and Windows (Parallels VM) on one machine is extremely convenient. Trackpad gestures and Mission Control are great. I text and call from my iMac Pro daily. There's no denying that Apple makes great products, and their ecosystem is the most cohesive currently available. It just sucks being forced to settle for a non-user-upgradeable computer to enjoy those benefits when otherwise I am an Apple consumer and a fan willing to pay for what I want.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Honestly, I could make some argument about my computer needs changing in the short-term future (my base-model iMac Pro is fine for me today, but running VMs/simulators as well as training ML models can be quite processor, ram, and storage-intensive), but that is like a parent/child relationship in which I need to justify what I want. That's unacceptable. All I'm asking is for Apple to produce the type of user-upgradeable, prosumer-grade Mac they know consumers like me want, and I'm willing to pay them a price that should easily allow them to maintain their profit margins.
So, if Apple doesn't build what you want, and I don't think that they will, then what.
That's a good question. I'm a .Net developer, so of course I could buy or build a PC and use Windows, and it may come to that, but I've come to appreciate a lot of the features of the Apple ecosystem. Flipping back and forth between macOS and Windows (Parallels VM) on one machine is extremely convenient. Trackpad gestures and Mission Control are great. I text and call from my iMac Pro daily. There's no denying that Apple makes great products, and their ecosystem is the most cohesive currently available. It just sucks being forced to settle for a non-user-upgradeable computer to enjoy those benefits when otherwise I am an Apple consumer and a fan willing to pay for what I want.
For myself, I'm interested in replacing a Lenovo D20 that I run Autodesk Inventor HSM on. Autodesk gives very good support of their products using Parallels, so I would only have to confirm that after the new Mac Pro had been out for awhile. I'm used to paying large dollars for machine tools, so $6K and change isn't really the barrier to entry.
Rather, I can't really justify a Mac Pro unless I pursue more stress analysis in the designs, more rendering of parts and assemblies, multi axis machine programming, or even a "hobby" of photography.
I don't know that I would draw a line in the sand on price, as you are, but good luck.
It seems that I, like many others, am not Apple's target market for the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR. I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ... My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent telling me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
"I was excited leading up to the WWDC opening keynote with my wallet open and ready for a decent base model, user-upgradeable Mac Pro up to $5k and a consumer-level 6k Apple display between $2-3k."
Also, in regards to the original poster, the iMac Pro RAM is slotted, as is the processor. Take off the screen, or get somebody to do it, and you're good to go.
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
If you are likely to upgrade your computer every 3 years, why are internal user upgrades so important to you?
Honestly, I could make some argument about my computer needs changing in the short-term future (my base-model iMac Pro is fine for me today, but running VMs/simulators as well as training ML models can be quite processor, ram, and storage-intensive), but that is like a parent/child relationship in which I need to justify what I want. That's unacceptable. All I'm asking is for Apple to produce the type of user-upgradeable, prosumer-grade Mac they know consumers like me want, and I'm willing to pay them a price that should easily allow them to maintain their profit margins.
So, if Apple doesn't build what you want, and I don't think that they will, then what.
That's a good question. I'm a .Net developer, so of course I could buy or build a PC and use Windows, and it may come to that, but I've come to appreciate a lot of the features of the Apple ecosystem. Flipping back and forth between macOS and Windows (Parallels VM) on one machine is extremely convenient. Trackpad gestures and Mission Control are great. I text and call from my iMac Pro daily. There's no denying that Apple makes great products, and their ecosystem is the most cohesive currently available. It just sucks being forced to settle for a non-user-upgradeable computer to enjoy those benefits when otherwise I am an Apple consumer and a fan willing to pay for what I want.
For myself, I'm interested in replacing a Lenovo D20 that I run Autodesk Inventor HSM on. Autodesk gives very good support of their products using Parallels, so I would only have to confirm that after the new Mac Pro had been out for awhile. I'm used to paying large dollars for machine tools, so $6K and change isn't really the barrier to entry.
Rather, I can't really justify a Mac Pro unless I pursue more stress analysis in the designs, more rendering of parts and assemblies, multi axis machine programming, or even a "hobby" of photography.
I don't know that I would draw a line in the sand on price, as you are, but good luck.
That's fair enough. If you do end up going for it with the new Mac Pro, I hope it does just what you need and want and allows you to make more money so the price isn't even a consideration in the long run. For me, it isn't really about the price. I'm not rich, but I do well and depend on good computers for my livelihood, so I could get a Mac Pro and a Pro Display XDR. I recognize that those products weren't made for me. ECC ram, Xeon, 4 GPUs, the production-level features of the new monitor ... these things aren't value-adds to me. And the hulking, enterprise-like design isn't what I want on my desk. I'd just like an officially-supported, relatively quiet Apple box on my desk with an i9, support for one or two video cards, and a little room for upgrades down the line. By the way, everyone, thank you for indulging me by allowing me to turn this forum into my personal Apple trauma victim support group today. Lol!
Comments
This shows a list of graphics cards for AutoCAD work.
I am a computer programmer by trade. I do primarily .Net and iOS development along with some mobile, web, and ML work. I'm also a computer "enthusiast", so I always want more than I need, and I like the idea of having the option to upgrade at least ram and storage. Around a year and a half ago, I had the need to do more iOS development for work, so I decided to replace my aging iOS-development only 13" MacBook Pro and go all-in on Apple's ecosystem. I purchased a new iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, and an iMac Pro. Honestly, it's been good. I spend 50% of my time doing .Net development, but even this works well with a Parallels VM and Bootcamp when I need bare-metal performance.
Here's the thing about Apple ...
My non-user-upgradeable iMac Pro does meet my needs rather well currently, and it would likely continue to do so for several years, but I need a computer manufacturer to produce what I want not a parent to tell me what I need. I am NOT beholden to Apple or their ecosystem. I'll take my money and my skills elsewhere if they refuse to produce the type of system I want. Perhaps Apple has run the numbers on this already and isn't concerned. If that's the case, we can go our separate ways in peace.
An option for you is buy the base model of the new Mac Pro + the LG UltraFine 5K Display (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HKN62LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display?fnode=8a). Sounds like that would be in your budget and get you what you're looking for.
Unfortunately, I'm still left feeling that Apple really doesn't want me or consumers like me in their camp. If they did, they'd be producing a user-upgradeable "prosumer" headless Mac today. I have absolutely no need for the ECC ram in my iMac Pro, and an i9 would be faster than my base model Xeon. R&D costs would be minimal. Look at the Hackintosh community. Apple could add an Apple logo to any quality mid-tower PC case, add a T2 chip to any Gigabyte motherboard, and call it a day. They'd still sell tons of sealed systems with factory ram and storage upgrades to consumers who aren't concerned about upgradeability, and I'd be happy working on my Mac Sort-of-Pro with the knowledge that I could add some ram or swap out the video card ... even though I'd likely still upgrade every 3 years since Intel switches CPU sockets like most of us switch socks
It may become obvious once the display is available to order, but by now I'd like to have seen Apple mention a basic, included stand, to quell the hysteria.
Rather, I can't really justify a Mac Pro unless I pursue more stress analysis in the designs, more rendering of parts and assemblies, multi axis machine programming, or even a "hobby" of photography.
I don't know that I would draw a line in the sand on price, as you are, but good luck.
For me, it isn't really about the price. I'm not rich, but I do well and depend on good computers for my livelihood, so I could get a Mac Pro and a Pro Display XDR. I recognize that those products weren't made for me. ECC ram, Xeon, 4 GPUs, the production-level features of the new monitor ... these things aren't value-adds to me. And the hulking, enterprise-like design isn't what I want on my desk. I'd just like an officially-supported, relatively quiet Apple box on my desk with an i9, support for one or two video cards, and a little room for upgrades down the line.
By the way, everyone, thank you for indulging me by allowing me to turn this forum into my personal Apple trauma victim support group today. Lol!