I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
Yes, I’ve noticed that, too. Apart from being unavailable, they’re also getting a bit long in the tooth as far as processing power goes. Except for the processor, they’re better than the current models in just about every way - MagSafe, ‘Legacy’ USB A ports that are still far more common than USB C, HDMI, better keyboards...
You still need the Ethernet adapter on the 2015 rMBP. The two legacy USB A ports are too few: attach an iPad, a hard disk and you run out of USB to attach your mouse: needs a hub. SD slot is unnecessary. I wish this 15 inch had 6 multipurpose USB-C/Thunderbolt ports instead of 6 single purpose ports. Lesson learned: legacy single purpose ports don't save you from carrying hubs/adapters. Regarding keyboard, tactile feedback may appeal to some but I like the new keyboards' larger keys better. Those old keys are too small to prevent mistyping.
USB corded mice on a MBP? Haha WHY?
Although the mouse I use is a Bluetooth mouse, I noticed that its wake-up is slower than when it is used in wireless mode. Besides, it is almost impossible to use a Bluetooth mouse in Windows, you need to use it in wireless mode, which requires that small adapter. So I keep it always plugged in in both macOS and Windows modes.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A. I was at Target the other day and every single one they had on the shelf was a USB A. I was in Staples earlier this evening - same story. When I need to hook up my laptop to a projector to do a presentation, the single most common connector is an HDMI connector. I have yet to see a USB C connector.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A. I was at Target the other day and every single one they had on the shelf was a USB A. I was in Staples earlier this evening - same story. When I need to hook up my laptop to a projector to do a presentation, the single most common connector is an HDMI connector. I have yet to see a USB C connector.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Attach that USB security key then attach that jump drive you run out of ports. Attach a HDMI display you run out of ports, you cannot attach a second display. With USB-C you can attach as many displays as your CPU/GPU supports. You’re not against MBPs, you are against USB-C. You’re defending a paradigm that consists of legacy single-purpose ports against the modern paradigm of multi-purpose ports. The original iMac removed RS232, ADB, SCSI and replaced all by the new emerging USB standard. The new Macbook Pros removed several single-purpose ports and replaced them by the modern multipurpose USB-C ports. Your resistance to progress is futile.
By the way I’m dependent on USB-A exactly for the same reason as you: the USB security key. But I know that the mine is a very fringe case and I don’t try to use it as an argument against progress.
After using the touch bar for almost 2 years, I give it an overwhelming ‘meh.’ I miss the physical function keys somewhat for a work application, but that’s not a dealbreaker. I routinely miss the physical escape key, though. I’ve also found that I routinely will accidentally hit the Touch Bar when typing if my fingers land a bit too high on the number keys.
On the flip side, I haven’t found any groundbreaking or revolutionary use for the Touch Bar; it’s mostly just a gimmick. TouchID is definitely nice, but that doesn’t require the Touch Bar.
All the other improvements are great and definitely worth it. The Touch Bar? Meh.
Hopefully when they bring out the MBP next year with a real keyboard they will ditch the TouchBar or at least put the function keys back with the TouchBar above them. With Ive leaving hopefully they will make decisions more on functionality and not looks.
After using the touch bar for almost 2 years, I give it an overwhelming ‘meh.’ I miss the physical function keys somewhat for a work application, but that’s not a dealbreaker. I routinely miss the physical escape key, though. I’ve also found that I routinely will accidentally hit the Touch Bar when typing if my fingers land a bit too high on the number keys.
On the flip side, I haven’t found any groundbreaking or revolutionary use for the Touch Bar; it’s mostly just a gimmick. TouchID is definitely nice, but that doesn’t require the Touch Bar.
All the other improvements are great and definitely worth it. The Touch Bar? Meh.
Hopefully when they bring out the MBP next year with a real keyboard they will ditch the TouchBar or at least put the function keys back with the TouchBar above them. With Ive leaving hopefully they will make decisions more on functionality and not looks.
Hopefully. The ‘old’ Apple had wonderfully functional products that were also beautifully designed. The function has definitely been lacking of late.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
Yep. Hope springs eternal with Ive leaving.
From 2012 mac unit sales went from 18.2 million units to 20.6 million units in 2015 but back down to 18.2 million units in 2018. At the same time revenue went up from $23.2 Billion in 2012 to $24.5 billion in 2015 to $25.5 billion. So for the last 3 full years as they introduced the Butterfly keyboard sales have receded while revenue has stagnated. Laptops are the biggest part of the Mac business. During a red hot economy in the US and most of the world the mac has definitely underperformed without a doubt because consumers are avoiding these bad laptops. I image that they are introducing the rumored redesigned keyboard because the MacBook Air which was their best seller has dived. Adios to Ive.
So DUMB! If the software goes down we can’t Escape because the Escape goes down too. And how many people use the Touch Bar anyway - probably 1% or 2% of users.
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
So DUMB! If the software goes down we can’t Escape because the Escape goes down too. And how many people use the Touch Bar anyway - probably 1% or 2% of users.
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
No, the Touch Bar cannot go down when your software goes down because it is operated by a different operating system, not macOS.
So DUMB! If the software goes down we can’t Escape because the Escape goes down too. And how many people use the Touch Bar anyway - probably 1% or 2% of users.
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
No, the Touch Bar cannot go down when your software goes down because it is operated by a different operating system, not macOS.
The Touch Bar is operated by a modified version of IOS (with elements of watchOS) therefore it can go down. No software is foolproof - not even operating system software.
So DUMB! If the software goes down we can’t Escape because the Escape goes down too. And how many people use the Touch Bar anyway - probably 1% or 2% of users.
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
No, the Touch Bar cannot go down when your software goes down because it is operated by a different operating system, not macOS.
The Touch Bar is operated by a modified version of IOS (with elements of watchOS) therefore it can go down. No software is foolproof - not even operating system software.
Glad to see you learned it. However, the keyboard too is operated by software... You can even change how your keyboard keys act via software, you can add or modify keyboard shortcuts to menus via software, namely the Keyboard Preference pane. When something goes awry your keyboard may not function at all.
I can't wait for Apple to completely jettison -- or at least significantly modify/redo -- the current MBPs with the TouchBar/Butterfly Keyboard/USB-C.
The dongles are a pain, the Touch Bar is not much more than eye candy (the absence of a physical escape key, and having to do an additional key-press to get to ESC as well as basic things like next-song/prev-song/pause-play or Brightness Up/Down are truly annoying), the keyboard is amazingly bad (very little tactility and springiness, and fingers crossed that mine don't have to be repaired at some point), the useful charge light on the charging cable is gone (as are MagSafe, the lighted Apple logo, the extension cord for the charger, and the little clips on the charger that would pop up so that you could secure the cord), the keys smudge the screen when closed, and the overall build quality just somehow looks a bit cheaper than the previous aluminum classic. And, the sides of the machine have a near razor-blade-sharp piece of metal attached to allow heat to escape (at the bottom).
All this crappiness for a lot of extra $$$.
Compared to the prior generation MBP, Apple's product strategy screams "C-H-E-A-P". I have not been more disappointed with an Apple hardware purchase in over 35 years of Apple-product ownership (the AppleTV is a close second).
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A. I was at Target the other day and every single one they had on the shelf was a USB A. I was in Staples earlier this evening - same story. When I need to hook up my laptop to a projector to do a presentation, the single most common connector is an HDMI connector. I have yet to see a USB C connector.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Attach that USB security key then attach that jump drive you run out of ports. Attach a HDMI display you run out of ports, you cannot attach a second display. With USB-C you can attach as many displays as your CPU/GPU supports. You’re not against MBPs, you are against USB-C. You’re defending a paradigm that consists of legacy single-purpose ports against the modern paradigm of multi-purpose ports. The original iMac removed RS232, ADB, SCSI and replaced all by the new emerging USB standard. The new Macbook Pros removed several single-purpose ports and replaced them by the modern multipurpose USB-C ports. Your resistance to progress is futile.
By the way I’m dependent on USB-A exactly for the same reason as you: the USB security key. But I know that the mine is a very fringe case and I don’t try to use it as an argument against progress.
Apple also added Firewire which never caught on, so their prediction of the future is not perfect.
How many people run 3 monitors off of their MacBook Pro? I'd be willing to bet that that number is dwarfed by the number of people who need a USB A device, but it's not an Either/or proposition. I'm not against USB C; I just think using only USB C ports was idiotic. USB A was not single purpose, by the way. Beyond that, what is the single thing people use USB C for more than all other uses combined? Charging. Put 2 USB C ports, a MagSafe and a USB A. You have utility of USB A without sacrificing the flexibility of USB C.
3 years after Apple dumped USB A, it's still the single most common connector used and still dwarfs USB C. I've said this many times - USB C may be the future, but USB A is (still) the present and will be used for years to come.
Just a note, the fact that it has a Touch Bar has nothing to do with Touch ID. The new MacBook Air, with physical Function keys, also has Touch ID. The Touch Bar and Touch ID are mutually exclusive.
What is it you guys do where you’re constantly running into new USB-A devices you have to plug in where you haven’t replaced the cable? And why have you not just bought a keychain adapter for $3 for those occasions like I did? So bizarre to me that this is an “issue”.
There are setups that are still valid. I have a retail store with older printers and barcode scanners. I arrive, plug the devices in and get to work. Yes, a USB-C hub with legacy ports would solve this, but that's beside the point. Devices with USB-A only still exist and are needed. So now do I need to buy two hubs? One for places I always arrive at, and one to take with me? You see the point. Transitions can be challenging.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A. I was at Target the other day and every single one they had on the shelf was a USB A. I was in Staples earlier this evening - same story. When I need to hook up my laptop to a projector to do a presentation, the single most common connector is an HDMI connector. I have yet to see a USB C connector.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Attach that USB security key then attach that jump drive you run out of ports. Attach a HDMI display you run out of ports, you cannot attach a second display. With USB-C you can attach as many displays as your CPU/GPU supports. You’re not against MBPs, you are against USB-C. You’re defending a paradigm that consists of legacy single-purpose ports against the modern paradigm of multi-purpose ports. The original iMac removed RS232, ADB, SCSI and replaced all by the new emerging USB standard. The new Macbook Pros removed several single-purpose ports and replaced them by the modern multipurpose USB-C ports. Your resistance to progress is futile.
By the way I’m dependent on USB-A exactly for the same reason as you: the USB security key. But I know that the mine is a very fringe case and I don’t try to use it as an argument against progress.
Apple also added Firewire which never caught on, so their prediction of the future is not perfect.
How many people run 3 monitors off of their MacBook Pro? I'd be willing to bet that that number is dwarfed by the number of people who need a USB A device, but it's not an Either/or proposition. I'm not against USB C; I just think using only USB C ports was idiotic. USB A was not single purpose, by the way. Beyond that, what is the single thing people use USB C for more than all other uses combined? Charging. Put 2 USB C ports, a MagSafe and a USB A. You have utility of USB A without sacrificing the flexibility of USB C.
3 years after Apple dumped USB A, it's still the single most common connector used and still dwarfs USB C. I've said this many times - USB C may be the future, but USB A is (still) the present and will be used for years to come.
OK no one denies that. This is why there exists USB-C to A adapters. If you have difficulties in digesting attaching a USB-C to A adapter on a MacBook Pro, then consider it as an extension of the USB-A cable, not an extension to MBP.
USB-A is a single purpose port design. Thunderbolt 3, DisplayPort don’t run on it. For those you need USB-C port.
Just a note, the fact that it has a Touch Bar has nothing to do with Touch ID. The new MacBook Air, with physical Function keys, also has Touch ID. The Touch Bar and Touch ID are mutually exclusive.
They are not "mutually exclusive" (which would mean it's either one or the other, but not both): the TouchBar Macs also have TouchID.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Nope. A long cable with two different ends is just a cable, it’s not a dongle. Even adapters aren’t really dongles in the old sense of the word when it was a special piece of hardware attached via cable (as in the old copy protection devices). Before MacBooks implemented USB-C I’d never heard anyone refer to simple adapters as dongles. People do it now to create a pretend narrative of consumer distress. Like you’re doing. “I need DONGLES! Good god the DONGLES! Apple is punishing me with DONGLES!”
Comments
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
By the way I’m dependent on USB-A exactly for the same reason as you: the USB security key. But I know that the mine is a very fringe case and I don’t try to use it as an argument against progress.
From 2012 mac unit sales went from 18.2 million units to 20.6 million units in 2015 but back down to 18.2 million units in 2018.
At the same time revenue went up from $23.2 Billion in 2012 to $24.5 billion in 2015 to $25.5 billion. So for the last 3 full years as they introduced the Butterfly keyboard sales have receded while revenue has stagnated. Laptops are the biggest part of the Mac business. During a red hot economy in the US and most of the world the mac has definitely underperformed without a doubt because consumers are avoiding these bad laptops. I image that they are introducing the rumored redesigned keyboard because the MacBook Air which was their best seller has dived. Adios to Ive.
20,587
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
The dongles are a pain, the Touch Bar is not much more than eye candy (the absence of a physical escape key, and having to do an additional key-press to get to ESC as well as basic things like next-song/prev-song/pause-play or Brightness Up/Down are truly annoying), the keyboard is amazingly bad (very little tactility and springiness, and fingers crossed that mine don't have to be repaired at some point), the useful charge light on the charging cable is gone (as are MagSafe, the lighted Apple logo, the extension cord for the charger, and the little clips on the charger that would pop up so that you could secure the cord), the keys smudge the screen when closed, and the overall build quality just somehow looks a bit cheaper than the previous aluminum classic. And, the sides of the machine have a near razor-blade-sharp piece of metal attached to allow heat to escape (at the bottom).
All this crappiness for a lot of extra $$$.
Compared to the prior generation MBP, Apple's product strategy screams "C-H-E-A-P". I have not been more disappointed with an Apple hardware purchase in over 35 years of Apple-product ownership (the AppleTV is a close second).
How many people run 3 monitors off of their MacBook Pro? I'd be willing to bet that that number is dwarfed by the number of people who need a USB A device, but it's not an Either/or proposition. I'm not against USB C; I just think using only USB C ports was idiotic. USB A was not single purpose, by the way. Beyond that, what is the single thing people use USB C for more than all other uses combined? Charging. Put 2 USB C ports, a MagSafe and a USB A. You have utility of USB A without sacrificing the flexibility of USB C.
3 years after Apple dumped USB A, it's still the single most common connector used and still dwarfs USB C. I've said this many times - USB C may be the future, but USB A is (still) the present and will be used for years to come.
There are setups that are still valid. I have a retail store with older printers and barcode scanners. I arrive, plug the devices in and get to work. Yes, a USB-C hub with legacy ports would solve this, but that's beside the point. Devices with USB-A only still exist and are needed. So now do I need to buy two hubs? One for places I always arrive at, and one to take with me? You see the point. Transitions can be challenging.
USB-A is a single purpose port design. Thunderbolt 3, DisplayPort don’t run on it. For those you need USB-C port.
And I will need to buy a new, high-end 15" MBP soon.
Maybe with Jony gone, I'll get my wish... maybe even some 'legacy' ports with a thicker base. Give me a choice, Apple!
Just victim narrative nonsense.