After using the touch bar for almost 2 years, I give it an overwhelming ‘meh.’ I miss the physical function keys somewhat for a work application, but that’s not a dealbreaker. I routinely miss the physical escape key, though. I’ve also found that I routinely will accidentally hit the Touch Bar when typing if my fingers land a bit too high on the number keys.
On the flip side, I haven’t found any groundbreaking or revolutionary use for the Touch Bar; it’s mostly just a gimmick. TouchID is definitely nice, but that doesn’t require the Touch Bar.
All the other improvements are great and definitely worth it. The Touch Bar? Meh.
Hopefully when they bring out the MBP next year with a real keyboard they will ditch the TouchBar or at least put the function keys back with the TouchBar above them. With Ive leaving hopefully they will make decisions more on functionality and not looks.
Hopefully. The ‘old’ Apple had wonderfully functional products that were also beautifully designed. The function has definitely been lacking of late.
Lord you must be new to Apple if you don’t think your same old complaints aren’t the same old complaints. “Apple is form over function!” Despite the fact that we’re talking about function...legacy ports and consume-grade memory card slots are just old news, and Apple has never been afraid to move on.
So DUMB! If the software goes down we can’t Escape because the Escape goes down too. And how many people use the Touch Bar anyway - probably 1% or 2% of users.
Who is making these crazy decisions at Apple? Probably the same people who created the worst keyboard in the history of computers - the butterfly keyboard.
Surely these folk must secretly work for an Apple competitor, and they are trying to sabotage its MacBook range.
No, the Touch Bar cannot go down when your software goes down because it is operated by a different operating system, not macOS.
The Touch Bar is operated by a modified version of IOS (with elements of watchOS) therefore it can go down. No software is foolproof - not even operating system software.
So both your software has gone down, AND your TouchBar OS? Sweet hypothetical doomsday scenario for your hypothetical macbook, bro.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A. I was at Target the other day and every single one they had on the shelf was a USB A. I was in Staples earlier this evening - same story. When I need to hook up my laptop to a projector to do a presentation, the single most common connector is an HDMI connector. I have yet to see a USB C connector.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Attach that USB security key then attach that jump drive you run out of ports. Attach a HDMI display you run out of ports, you cannot attach a second display. With USB-C you can attach as many displays as your CPU/GPU supports. You’re not against MBPs, you are against USB-C. You’re defending a paradigm that consists of legacy single-purpose ports against the modern paradigm of multi-purpose ports. The original iMac removed RS232, ADB, SCSI and replaced all by the new emerging USB standard. The new Macbook Pros removed several single-purpose ports and replaced them by the modern multipurpose USB-C ports. Your resistance to progress is futile.
By the way I’m dependent on USB-A exactly for the same reason as you: the USB security key. But I know that the mine is a very fringe case and I don’t try to use it as an argument against progress.
Apple also added Firewire which never caught on, so their prediction of the future is not perfect.
How many people run 3 monitors off of their MacBook Pro? I'd be willing to bet that that number is dwarfed by the number of people who need a USB A device, but it's not an Either/or proposition. I'm not against USB C; I just think using only USB C ports was idiotic. USB A was not single purpose, by the way. Beyond that, what is the single thing people use USB C for more than all other uses combined? Charging. Put 2 USB C ports, a MagSafe and a USB A. You have utility of USB A without sacrificing the flexibility of USB C.
3 years after Apple dumped USB A, it's still the single most common connector used and still dwarfs USB C. I've said this many times - USB C may be the future, but USB A is (still) the present and will be used for years to come.
OK no one denies that. This is why there exists USB-C to A adapters. If you have difficulties in digesting attaching a USB-C to A adapter on a MacBook Pro, then consider it as an extension of the USB-A cable, not an extension to MBP.
USB-A is a single purpose port design. Thunderbolt 3, DisplayPort don’t run on it. For those you need USB-C port.
Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter what you call it. The fact is that it's an extra piece of equipment that you need to buy and make sure you have with you. I have no difficulties using an adaptor/dongle/extension. I have taken to carrying one with me as often as possible. I just take exception to the pointless need for them and how they at best make the computer less convenient to use and at worst keep you from using it (someone gives me an industry standard USB A flash drive and I can't use it if I don't have the adaptor with) If there were no alternative I would understand, but there is no good reason Apple couldn't have included at least one USB A port.
I'm using 2015 MBPs till they can't be refurbed. Superior keyboard, HDMI, and USB w/o need for dongles. Perfect work computer. Based on how fast they vanish from the Apple refurb store, I'm not alone.
First of all an adapter isn’t really a dongle, unless any and every adapter is now a dongle. Funny we never called them that before. Second, there’s no need for such USB adapters as you can get native cables that connect USB-C to -A, HDMI, Lightning, etc...You’re whining about a problem solved years ago.
A dongle is simply an adaptor with a short cord. A long cord with two different ends is the same thing. Call it what you want, it doesn't change the discussion.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
Nope. A long cable with two different ends is just a cable, it’s not a dongle. Even adapters aren’t really dongles in the old sense of the word when it was a special piece of hardware attached via cable (as in the old copy protection devices). Before MacBooks implemented USB-C I’d never heard anyone refer to simple adapters as dongles. People do it now to create a pretend narrative of consumer distress. Like you’re doing. “I need DONGLES! Good god the DONGLES! Apple is punishing me with DONGLES!”
Just victim narrative nonsense.
I'm trying to understand if you're really that dense, such an incredible sycophant that you fail to see anything else, or just a plain troll. Regardless, since you keep focusing on the terminology rather than addressing the actual issue I'm raising it would appear that you actually have no counter argument.
As I said above - it doesn't matter what word you use. The fact of the matter is that USB A is still and industry standard and the single most common connector in use today and to use any USB A device with a MBP, you need an adaptor. If you feel that means Apple is punishing people, you're free to think that. I never said that. I said that it is a needless design decision that interferes with the convenience and use of Macbook Pros.
I'm surprised no-one's offering a physical escape key that plugs into a USB-C port so you can add one if you need it. I suppose as long as there was a keyboard that offered one, you didn't have to.
Then, there's still the MacBook Air for people who want function keys. And we don't know what the keyboard will be like on the 16 inch MBP everyone's been talking about. This could just be a way of getting as many of the current case design into the channel before they switch over to the new design, although if they're getting rid of the 13 inch, I'd expect a 14 inch or equivalent at the same time or soon after the 16 inch.
Would there be enough demand for this? I imagine the majority of users would carry an external keyboard instead.
The one thing I plug into my MBP more often than anything else is a USB security key. It's USB A and it's issued by my job, so I can't change it. The second most common thing I need to plug in is a USB jump drive that someone gave me with a bunch of pictures, files, etc. Those are almost always USB A.
You can stick a tiny USB-C adapter for ~$5 on your security key — hot glue or tape it on if you have to or keep a keychain version on you for the random thumb drive. It's literally not a problem.
Contrary to your parroting of Phill Schiller's tripe, the problem does still exist. Yes, you can get adaptors/dongles to let you use the USB C ports. I've spent an extra $100 on such dongles. The problem isn't that you can't make the connection, the problem is that you now have to tote around a handful of dongles in addition to your laptop to enable you to do what you could do natively 4 years ago, and what virtually every other laptop on the market today lets you do without anything extra.
$100? You could get a single multipurpose thingy that has USB-A, ethernet, HDMI, etc — whichever combination of ports YOU need (ie not everyone!) for a fraction of that.
I'm increasingly convinced that people who complain about this shit are literally just bad at their jobs. This is basic problem-solving stuff and nothing that actually prevents you from doing your work.
having to do an additional key-press to get to ESC as well as basic things like next-song/prev-song/pause-play or Brightness Up/Down are truly annoying),
You're doing it wrong. Brightness you don't have to do anything than touch and slide, or swipe on it, either direction. Same with volume. The others, you can set the defaults to the Expanded Control Strip in System Preferences if you need it. Beyond that, you can customize all this shit in BetterTouchTool if you want. It's infinitely more useful than the old hardware keys, most of which I never used at all.
What is it you guys do where you’re constantly running into new USB-A devices you have to plug in where you haven’t replaced the cable? And why have you not just bought a keychain adapter for $3 for those occasions like I did? So bizarre to me that this is an “issue”.
There are setups that are still valid. I have a retail store with older printers and barcode scanners. I arrive, plug the devices in and get to work. Yes, a USB-C hub with legacy ports would solve this, but that's beside the point. Devices with USB-A only still exist and are needed. So now do I need to buy two hubs? One for places I always arrive at, and one to take with me? You see the point. Transitions can be challenging.
No, you don't need to buy two hubs. You buy a new cable, or you stick a $5 adapter on the end of the cord and forget that it's even there. It's not challenging at all.
I had to buy two dual-DVI to mDP adapters for my two 30" ACDs at $99 apiece for work and home back in the day. When I got my newer MBP, I bought a $15 adapter for each for USB-C and attached it to the end of the previous adapter, and don't even think about it when I plug them in each and every day. It's *literally* not a problem.
MplsP said: As I said above - it doesn't matter what word you use. The fact of the matter is that USB A is still and industry standard and the single most common connector in use today and to use any USB A device with a MBP, you need an adaptor. If you feel that means Apple is punishing people, you're free to think that. I never said that. I said that it is a needless design decision that interferes with the convenience and use of Macbook Pros.
Get a fucking keychain adapter, they're dirt cheap and you never not have one on you. I have one, and it's always there at the random time I need to plug a USB-A thingy into my MBP, which is rare. I gave one to my partner (as I bought a 2-pack on Amazon) who doesn't know shit about ports and she's used it just fine to plug in the random flash drive or whatever and hasn't complained once.
There is literally no reason to saddle the vast majority of users who will never need to do this with a legacy 5Gbps USB-A port and thicker device because of it. I'd rather have forward-looking ports and adapt to old shit when needed, and move quickly away from any of that.
having to do an additional key-press to get to ESC as well as basic things like next-song/prev-song/pause-play or Brightness Up/Down are truly annoying),
You're doing it wrong. Brightness you don't have to do anything than touch and slide, or swipe on it, either direction. Same with volume. The others, you can set the defaults to the Expanded Control Strip in System Preferences if you need it. Beyond that, you can customize all this shit in BetterTouchTool if you want. It's infinitely more useful than the old hardware keys, most of which I never used at all.
This is true, but it negates the very premise of the control strip (which is supposed to change with what is relevant to the software you're using), doesn't it?
It is weird that Apple does not really allow for a broader range of customization -- for example, the ECS has six slots (out of 16) fixed for things I rarely use.
MplsP said: As I said above - it doesn't matter what word you use. The fact of the matter is that USB A is still and industry standard and the single most common connector in use today and to use any USB A device with a MBP, you need an adaptor. If you feel that means Apple is punishing people, you're free to think that. I never said that. I said that it is a needless design decision that interferes with the convenience and use of Macbook Pros.
Get a fucking keychain adapter, they're dirt cheap and you never not have one on you. I have one, and it's always there at the random time I need to plug a USB-A thingy into my MBP, which is rare. I gave one to my partner (as I bought a 2-pack on Amazon) who doesn't know shit about ports and she's used it just fine to plug in the random flash drive or whatever and hasn't complained once.
There is literally no reason to saddle the vast majority of users who will never need to do this with a legacy 5Gbps USB-A port and thicker device because of it. I'd rather have forward-looking ports and adapt to old shit when needed, and move quickly away from any of that.
This 2-pack is under $8. What a bunch of babies.
Oh yeah, everyone wants to carry around that POS looking thing instead of say, the key fob for their car...
MplsP said: As I said above - it doesn't matter what word you use. The fact of the matter is that USB A is still and industry standard and the single most common connector in use today and to use any USB A device with a MBP, you need an adaptor. If you feel that means Apple is punishing people, you're free to think that. I never said that. I said that it is a needless design decision that interferes with the convenience and use of Macbook Pros.
Get a fucking keychain adapter, they're dirt cheap and you never not have one on you. I have one, and it's always there at the random time I need to plug a USB-A thingy into my MBP, which is rare. I gave one to my partner (as I bought a 2-pack on Amazon) who doesn't know shit about ports and she's used it just fine to plug in the random flash drive or whatever and hasn't complained once.
There is literally no reason to saddle the vast majority of users who will never need to do this with a legacy 5Gbps USB-A port and thicker device because of it. I'd rather have forward-looking ports and adapt to old shit when needed, and move quickly away from any of that.
This 2-pack is under $8. What a bunch of babies.
Oh yeah, everyone wants to carry around that POS looking thing instead of say, the key fob for their car...
Why would it be an instead? I have one of these (similar anyway) on my keychain and it’s much smaller than a key fob and not bulky or anything. Not sure what the problem is. Attach it to your laptop bag then.
Comments
Lord you must be new to Apple if you don’t think your same old complaints aren’t the same old complaints. “Apple is form over function!” Despite the fact that we’re talking about function...legacy ports and consume-grade memory card slots are just old news, and Apple has never been afraid to move on.
So both your software has gone down, AND your TouchBar OS? Sweet hypothetical doomsday scenario for your hypothetical macbook, bro.
I'm trying to understand if you're really that dense, such an incredible sycophant that you fail to see anything else, or just a plain troll. Regardless, since you keep focusing on the terminology rather than addressing the actual issue I'm raising it would appear that you actually have no counter argument.
As I said above - it doesn't matter what word you use. The fact of the matter is that USB A is still and industry standard and the single most common connector in use today and to use any USB A device with a MBP, you need an adaptor. If you feel that means Apple is punishing people, you're free to think that. I never said that. I said that it is a needless design decision that interferes with the convenience and use of Macbook Pros.
$100? You could get a single multipurpose thingy that has USB-A, ethernet, HDMI, etc — whichever combination of ports YOU need (ie not everyone!) for a fraction of that.
I'm increasingly convinced that people who complain about this shit are literally just bad at their jobs. This is basic problem-solving stuff and nothing that actually prevents you from doing your work.
1-2%? I would say more like 99% of people with Touch Bar use it to some degree. What kind of crack are you smoking?
You're doing it wrong. Brightness you don't have to do anything than touch and slide, or swipe on it, either direction. Same with volume. The others, you can set the defaults to the Expanded Control Strip in System Preferences if you need it. Beyond that, you can customize all this shit in BetterTouchTool if you want. It's infinitely more useful than the old hardware keys, most of which I never used at all.
I had to buy two dual-DVI to mDP adapters for my two 30" ACDs at $99 apiece for work and home back in the day. When I got my newer MBP, I bought a $15 adapter for each for USB-C and attached it to the end of the previous adapter, and don't even think about it when I plug them in each and every day. It's *literally* not a problem.
There is literally no reason to saddle the vast majority of users who will never need to do this with a legacy 5Gbps USB-A port and thicker device because of it. I'd rather have forward-looking ports and adapt to old shit when needed, and move quickly away from any of that.
This 2-pack is under $8. What a bunch of babies.
It is weird that Apple does not really allow for a broader range of customization -- for example, the ECS has six slots (out of 16) fixed for things I rarely use.
Oh yeah, everyone wants to carry around that POS looking thing instead of say, the key fob for their car...