Editorial: Why does Apple have a monopoly on responsive corporate values?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 8
Apple pioneered the concept of making its products accessible to users with disabilities back in the 1980s. It has made environmentally sound manufacturing and supplier responsibility a key aspect of its global operations. It has taken a public stand for inclusion and diversity and has made privacy and security primary features of its products. Why haven't other tech giants offered more than a meek "me too" in these areas?


Apple advertises its values to investors

While Apple has featured privacy, environmental work, and product accessibility in its product advertising, the company's strongest statements of its corporate values are presented to the company's investors. Unlike Microsoft, Samsung, Huawei, or Google, Apple's Investor Relations website prominently features a series of reports detailing its corporate values, including the company's initiatives related to accessibility, education, the environment, inclusion and diversity, privacy and supplier responsibility.

In 2007 Apple began publicly reporting corporate responsibility metrics, including its work on environmental issues and working conditions. This appeared to be a reaction to a series of cynical, dramatized, and often even false media reports that began targeting Apple's manufacturing practices in the iPod Era.

The "Guide to Greener Electronics" by Greenpeace is still flawed in many respects, but it cites Apple as the only major electronics brand with an above-average B+ grade, while handing Microsoft Cs and Ds and giving Google and most its Android licensees D grades. Amazon and Chinese Android makers Oppo, Vivo, and Xaiomi all got solid F grades, largely for their failure in environmental responsibility and sustainability.




Apple has consistently expanded its reporting and tightened its standards, gaining attention from both responsible investors and consumers. That subsequently prompted Samsung to begin generating similar reports, even though that company was involved in mass manufacturing for far longer than Apple had been -- yet somehow had never stumbled onto the concept on its own.

A variety of global manufacturers now call attention to their efforts to operate responsibly and set standards for their supply chain, although none appear to report as much detail as Apple does.

Despite that reality, media personalities have targeted Apple with stories that twist its own reports into allegations of wrongdoing, while giving a pass to Google, Microsoft and their broad partnerships with cut-rate licensees and manufacturers who often lack any commitments to their international workers, to responsible sourcing, and to the environmental impact of their manufacturing. Samsung and Huawei have made greater efforts to copy Apple's icons, apps, and bezels than they have Apple's values as a company.

For Android, not only are hundreds of millions of mobile devices built on the cheap to reach a global Average Selling Price of around $250 each year, but those devices are subsequently thrown out after only a short life span. Most are never even updated after the first year, resulting in a massive global pipeline of low-quality e-waste that simply isn't a topic of conversation. Apple not only builds devices that last for years, but has instituted and publicized recycling efforts and trade-in systems to recover as much material as possible for use in future products.

Google has effectively done nothing to close the Android waste loop. Its manufacturing partners are unable to sell significant volumes of premium devices that last or are worth much to recycle. Yet the only reporting on environmental activity in mobile devices has largely sought to vilify Apple, by combing through its transparency reports looking for facts to stretch into irresponsible clickbait headlines.

Further, Apple has been assailed for decades over policies including its non-replaceable batteries. Yet from the first iPods to modern devices, Apple has effectively erased the use of millions of replaceable or disposable batteries that would commonly end up as toxic garbage, while at the same time advancing the state of the art in battery chemistry to achieve all-day use without the need to carry a series of battery packs. Samsung and other makers initially promoted disposable batteries but were eventually forced to follow Apple's lead-- only because it became cost-efficient, not because of any real values held by its executives.

In some areas, environmental concerns are simply efficient business decisions. The massive cloud services operated by Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple require vast amounts of energy to operate and cool, so it simply makes sense to position these next to cheap sources solar, geothermal, or hydroelectric power. Many of these companies tout their "environmental" credibility in these areas, but Apple is unique in driving all of its corporate and even retail operations from renewable energy, when doing so isn't just the cheapest way to do business.

Privacy as a value

This week, Google and Amazon introduced the idea of letting their users opt-out of human reviews of their voice assistant recordings, but only after Apple announced the policy on its own. Google, Facebook, and a variety of messaging companies have similarly also only recently promoted the idea of supporting end-to-end encryption, something Apple established early on. Apple introduced hardware-based device encryption on its second-generation iPhone. Android device and services still struggle with encryption, partly due to the added component expense and partly because those surveillance advertising companies don't share any interest in privacy.

As commercial entities, their business models are opposed to real user privacy. They exist to violate your privacy and exploit it for their benefit.

Apple defended its iPhone users' rights to privacy through encryption and secured hardware right up to fighting the U.S. government and the FBI over the issue. That occurred even in the face of a dramatized-- but entirely false and disingenuous-- portrayal by the federal government that sought to portray Apple as refusing to stop terrorism. Despite the lies, Apple didn't back down, even as other companies' leaders cowardly supported the idea of giving up control of their private data in the face of false government demands.

Microsoft gave the U.S. government backdoor keys that its agencies immediately mishandled. Google never bothered to pretend to secure its Android customers at all. Amazon and Facebook have worked to build products that effectively are surveillance tools, and casually shovel private data at essentially any government entity that asks for it.

While flaws and vulnerabilities are discovered everywhere, Apple has increasingly worked to not only fix issues but also create an ecosystem that is rapidly patchable at massive scale. When flaws were discovered in the new Apple Watch Walkie-Talkie implementation, Apple pulled the feature to protect its users and then rolled out a patch that restored the feature. Microsoft and Google often can't do this on their platforms, and have little to no control over the various flaws implemented by their licenses.

Diversity, Inclusion and Workers' Rights

In its direct hiring, Apple notes that "we know that an inclusive and diverse workforce drives innovation and makes Apple stronger. That's why we're committed to hiring more diverse talent for jobs at all levels, attracting candidates from more diverse pipelines, leveraging technology to prevent bias, and driving development efforts to increase representation in leadership across the company."

And globally, across its vast supply chain, the company stated in its most recent Supplier Responsibility report that, "we care deeply about the people who build our products, and the planet we all share. So we hold ourselves and our suppliers to the highest standards to ensure everyone is treated with dignity and respect. And we share our work openly so others can follow our lead."

Other tech companies have followed Apple's lead in working to present more data on how they hire their own workers. But few have attempted to make a similar impact on the supply chains that feed their production. In the case of Microsoft and Google, the companies build very little of the devices that make up their platforms and have very little impact on the companies that produce most of the products that run their software.

Apple's leadership in supply chain responsibility and its Supplier Code of Conduct requires not only its direct contractors to provide fair working hours, a safe workplace, and an environment free from discrimination, but also extends its influence up the supply chain, making the broadest possible impact on how people are treated. Since it began working to enforce worker's rights in 2007, Apple notes that 17.3 million people "have been trained on their rights," a requirement it makes for employers hiring on their first day.

"For more than a decade, Apple has been one of the few companies to closely drive and report on working-hours compliance," the company noted, adding, "we have zero tolerance for debt-bonded labor. We prohibit forced labor of any kind, and suppliers must take immediate action or risk removal from our supply chain."

Debt-bonded labor is rampant in Asia. It is effectively slavery. Recruiters routinely employ workers and then charge them fees that they must repay as a condition of their employment, forcing people with few options into arrangements where they work for months just to pay off their opportunity to hold a job.

In 2008 Apple limited these fees to one month's wages, better than the limit set by local governments. In 2015, Apple eliminated this practice among its suppliers, and contractually obligated its partners to repay the total of any recruitment fees it discovers.

"We also conduct investigatory interviews with employees to ensure that they're working of their own free will. If suppliers who are found in violation do not implement corrective measures, they risk removal from our supply chain," the company reported. Last year, Apple was awarded the Stop Slavery Award by the Thomson Reuters Foundation for leading the industry in eradicating forced labor.

There is no indication that other low-profit Android and Windows PC makers set similar standards. Android phones are cheap because they are products of slavery. Yet the Verge, CNET and other Android mouthpieces are loathe to acknowledge this fact, preferring instead to twist Apple's own reports to suggest that the company is enabling the practices it is actively working to end. These are all examples of the values that Apple has the luxury of advocating and enforcing, but which Google and its partners and advocates either don't care about or refuse to even acknowledge.


Huawei slavishly copies Apple's work, in more ways than one

Environmental impact

Apple has not only changed the world in terms of how workers are treated, but has also materially shifted the environmental impact of its entire supply chain. The company's "rigorous assessment process that measures how well our standards are being met" has evaluated the conditions at 770 manufacturing facilities, logistics and repair centers, retail stores, and contact centers as well as 279 smelter- and mine-level sites.




Since 2014, compliance and the quality of compliance with Apple's standards have improved drastically, but only because the company is leveraging its commercial impact to make these changes happen. Other consumer electronics makers are either not concerned with making a difference, or simply unable to affect any change on a global basis.

Another aspect of Apple's impact on the global environment is that it is uniquely capable of supporting devices for years with OS updates. Today's iOS 12 works on products first sold back in 2013, keeping them relevant and useful to the original owner or a secondhand buyer. This works in Apple's benefit because it increases the active installed base of iOS users. But it also reduces the amount to waste that is dumped in landfills, and creates an awareness of the value of recycling. Google has been unable to get its licensees to agree to support updates on their products for even a year and a half.

How does Apple find the time and inclination to maintain values as a company in a cutthroat business environment where its competitors share at most a surface pretense of creating the illusion of having any values that impact how their companies do business? In part, this comes from Apple's efforts to build products that are good enough to command a price premium, sustaining a level of profitability that enables the company to set high standards for itself, its partners and its supply chain. But it also comes from a corporate culture that attracts and retails workers and executives that have principled values.

Apple's corporate culture is vastly different from that of Google or Microsoft, and certainly has very little in common with Huawei and Samsung, which both built their empires on copying the products of others without much interest in also copying their values or guiding principles.
lolliverwatto_cobra
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    You lost me at inclusion and diversity.  Damn.
    designrrazorpit
  • Reply 2 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member

    Privacy as a value

    This week, Google and Amazon introduced the idea of letting their users opt-out of human reviews of their voice assistant recordings, but only after Apple announced the policy on its own.
    False, either by intent or ignorance.

    Google for their part has long offered opt out. It was Apple that was the outlier and still is, tho they say they'll be changing that. Google had already ceased their human transcription program too before Apple announced they would be doing the same. And what prompted Apple? Why the Germans of course when they strongly suggested both they and Amazon follow Google's lead and take a pause for review. 

    Otherwise it's a fairly good and accurate article, even properly noting Google has no real control over manufacturers of devices using the Android OS nor their recycling efforts since they are not involved in the hardware builds, just the operating system. 

    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    edited August 8 muthuk_vanalingamCarnagebadmonk
  • Reply 3 of 24
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,153member
    Oh gee another DED Apple good competition bad article. One wonders if this is all just projection. I mean if you have to keep writing editorials saying how good Apple is...
    designrCarnage
  • Reply 4 of 24
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 323member
    How is Apple a monopoly on values? Are the keeping other companies from being sustainable, diverse or privacy focused?
    hammeroftruthphilboogie
  • Reply 5 of 24
    correctionscorrections Posts: 1,372member
    One wonders if this is all just projection. I mean if you have to keep writing editorials saying how good Apple is...

    Projection refers to denying the existence of something in yourself and then imagining it it other people, such as accusing everyone else around you of being dishonest, or pretending to be straight and accusing everyone else around you of being gay. I 

    So that word salad you keep tossing out doesn’t actually make sense. 
    StrangeDayscharlesgreslolliverRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 24
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,643member
    Folks, I worked in the large corporate world for a long time and been part of the internal discussion around many of these initiatives. Yes Apple tends to be the better example of trying to do the right things for the right reasons in most people's minds. However, most if it is driven by profits and Apple in may cases is no different. Apple is one of the few companies who can sell a product on the value it brings to people not what it cost to buy. Otherwise, they would be on the other end of the scale. BTW who is FairPhone?

    As an example the reality of Apple auditing Chinese companies labor practice is because Apple could not afford the bad publicity (oh the children), otherwise, they would not care. Plus the Chinese government should fix labor issue in their country.

    I have shared this before, believe it or not, China has very similar labor laws as the rest of the developing world. But the Chinese government does not enforce them.  In the US if a company is found breaking labor laws, the government step in and fines them and/or takes other actions. You do not see media attracting non-US companies who happen to be using a US companies to get them to fix the problem.  In China when the media uncovers suspect labor practices the Chinese government notifies all the non-Chinese companies using the suspect company and tell them they are violating Chinese laws and the non-Chinese companies has to fix the problem. The Non-Chinese companies comes in does their audits find violations and tells the Chinese companies to fix the problem. The Chinese companies turns around and say they will fix the labor issue but the non-Chinese company will have to pay more for labor to make the problem go away. This is how the Chinese government got labor wages to increase and make everyone outside China to pay for it.

    Greenpease would like to take responsibility for what Apple did, however, Steve made it very clear Apple will make changes when it made sense. Apple was not going to put consumers at disadvantage just to meet some artificially un-realist goal Greenpease had come up with. Which good for consumers, it is easy to be Greenpease to sit around and talk about all that is wrong and does not have the ability to find a solution.

    Folks, you may like what Apple has done and you think this all good, but it is not stopping with just the things Apple is doing with products. A good friend of mine was just offered a job with fairly new company with office all over the US who is growing rapidly. The offer was decent not great considering the times and job requirements. However, they made it clear in their travel policy they will only reimburse for vegan meals since they feel eating meat is unhealth both for your body and the environment (cow farts). They will also pay full health benefits for just the employee if you are vegan, otherwise you have to pay a portion. This company is not a health or environment based company they are just imposing their ideology onto their work force. Image if Apple, Google, Amazon, and Facebook began doing this. We are hearing Google is starting to imposing their politically beliefs to their work force.
    razorpitmobirdhammeroftruthphilboogie
  • Reply 7 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member
    rwx9901 said:
    You lost me at inclusion and diversity.  Damn.
    Pathetic how my fellow tech workers are so scared of women and brown people. 

    Equality doesn’t mean lowering the bar. It means when skill is equal among candidates, opening up the team to avoid monoculture and the subtle trap monoculture represents. 

    You dudes just won’t understand. But that’s why you don’t run the most successful public company in history. 
    Andy.HardwakelolliverCarnage
  • Reply 8 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member

    Oh gee another DED Apple good competition bad article. One wonders if this is all just projection. I mean if you have to keep writing editorials saying how good Apple is...
    There she is! Right on cue to tell us how much she dislikes DED articles, yet always johnny on the spot for a first read and comment. “I hate your articles! When’s the next one?”

    Talk about projection. 

    Get it thru your head — this is an Apple site, and DED is an opinion columnist. Ever read a newspaper? I’m sure the Star Tribune still has opinion columns. Same thing. 
    Andy.Hardwakelolliverwatto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 9 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member

    gatorguy said:
    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    That you think values come from “PR folks” betrays your lack of understanding on the topic. You can’t fake admirable values with PR people. You have to have them. At the top, on down. Culture is real and culture is chosen. Responsible values is part of Apple’s culture, it’s not a marketing gimmick as you suggest. 

    Google and their followers just don’t get it. Which is why they aren’t Apple. 
    Andy.HardwakeSolicharlesgreslolliverFileMakerFellerRayz2016watto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 10 of 24

    Further, Apple has been assailed for decades over policies including its non-replaceable batteries. Yet from the first iPods to modern devices, Apple has effectively erased the use of millions of replaceable or disposable batteries that would commonly end up as toxic garbage, while at the same time advancing the state of the art in battery chemistry to achieve all-day use without the need to carry a series of battery packs. Samsung and other makers initially promoted disposable batteries but were eventually forced to follow Apple's lead-- only because it became cost-efficient, not because of any real values held by its executives.

    In some areas, environmental concerns are simply efficient business decisions. The massive cloud services operated by Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple require vast amounts of energy to operate and cool, so it simply makes sense to position these next to cheap sources solar, geothermal, or hydroelectric power. Many of these companies tout their "environmental" credibility in these areas, but Apple is unique in driving all of its corporate and even retail operations from renewable energy, when doing so isn't just the cheapest way to do business.
    I get that Apple has values and all and I praise them for it but some of the examples are stretching reality. Is there any evidence that Apple used non-user replaceable batteries for environmental reasons or that they made a positive difference? The argument has always been that sealing the unit and making them custom results in a better product and prevents third-party batteries causing malfunctions.

    How does it follow that when Apple does something, it's because of the company's values but when Alphabet does it, it's just for business reasons. Google became carbon neutral 12 years ago. There's once again an Apple lens put on every competitor even though they have completely different businesses. The one most important thing Alphabet could do is improve the efficiency and source or electricity feeding its data centres and its focused on that. Apple sells handsets, they obviously focus on reducing the impact of those.

    These article would have been much better if you focused the positives that Apple is doing rather than ranting about competitors. Who knows, maybe you could have even suggested some ways Apple could improve so it can continue getting better.
    muthuk_vanalingamphilboogie
  • Reply 11 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member

    gatorguy said:
    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    That you think values come from “PR folks” betrays your lack of understanding on the topic. You can’t fake admirable values with PR people. You have to have them. At the top, on down. Culture is real and culture is chosen. Responsible values is part of Apple’s culture, it’s not a marketing gimmick as you suggest. 

    Google and their followers just don’t get it. Which is why they aren’t Apple. 
    You are suggesting Google has no values and Apple does. I perfectly understand what you're saying, and I'm suggesting you don't know any better because Google is so poor at promoting them. You are the one not getting it IMHO.  Example:

    Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to acquire enough energy from 100% renewable sources (thanks for the rewording suggestion @foregoneconclusion ) to power all their operations for consecutive years. That requires true commitment. Had it been Apple with that achievement they'd be releasing press pieces and supplying statements to all the popular tech and environmental blogs. Heck Tim Cook may have made his own proud statement about it.  You and everyone else would know and pat them on the back for being such a friend to the environment...

    But Google quietly posted the story (which would have been big news for Apple) on their own blog where in general it was ignored and received no mention elsewhere. 

    Values.

    Example 2:
    Google contributes more to charitable causes each year than any other big tech, in fact in top 5 of ALL companies in the country. Have you ever seen that mentioned? Not likely. 

    Values.

    Example 3: Did you know Google donates hundreds of $Millions each year for crisis relief? Everything from assisting hurricane and typhoon victims with supplies and services, to searching for an answer to Ebola and Zika pandemics, to offering supporting hardware and services to responding crisis agencies, to reaching out to offer help to refugees displaced by war or politics through no fault of their own.  Nope, you probably didn't know.

    Values.

    There's more examples if you still don't get the point I was making but I suspect a light is starting to glow a bit in your head. Not self-promoting your values is NOT the same as not having them. 

    So no sir it is you who doesn't seem to understand the importance and benefit of great PR, and DED himself would disagree with you based on just the first headline of his piece.  Somehow you manage to believe there's little reason to influence market and consumer perception by advertising your values via good PR.  You do not give due credit to the business/market advantages of it and then take the lack of advertising those values in other companies as proof no one but Apple has values anyway.

    Instead have you considered you didn't know any better because no one else has as effectively talked about it as Apple?
    You being a longtime fan of Apple I'm frankly shocked at how easily you dismiss "promotion of values" as a marketing advantage for Apple over other companies. No one does it better IMHO and enterprises can learn a lot from them.

    Google is just horrid at tooting its own horn. You still imagine Google would not benefit from better PR, ala Apple? If so you still don't understand. 
    edited August 8 FileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingamphilboogie
  • Reply 12 of 24
    gatorguy said: Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to use 100% renewable energy across all their operations for consecutive years. 
    Google doesn't actually "use" 100% renewable. They buy renewable energy that offsets the amount of non-renewables that they use. 

    "Google says it currently has contracts to purchase three gigawatts of output from renewable energy projects, and while it says “it’s not yet possible to “power” a company of our scale by 100 percent renewable energy,” these purchases do have a positive impact."

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/4/17197342/google-renewable-energy-climate-change
    correctionslolliverFileMakerFellerRayz2016muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    gatorguy said: Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to use 100% renewable energy across all their operations for consecutive years. 
    Google doesn't actually "use" 100% renewable. They buy renewable energy that offsets the amount of non-renewables that they use. 

    "Google says it currently has contracts to purchase three gigawatts of output from renewable energy projects, and while it says “it’s not yet possible to “power” a company of our scale by 100 percent renewable energy,” these purchases do have a positive impact."

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/4/17197342/google-renewable-energy-climate-change
    Old news, try this one from a few weeks ago. That you couldn't find anything less than a year and half old is evidence just how poorly Google promote its own values.
    https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/100-percent-renewable-energy-second-year-row/

    "In 2017, we first reached our longstanding goal of buying enough renewable energy to match 100 percent of Google’s global annual electricity use. And we’re on a roll: during 2018, our purchases of energy from sources like solar and wind once again matched our entire annual electricity consumption.

    We’re the first organization of our size to achieve 100 percent renewable energy two years running, but just as important as reaching our goal is how we did it. Addressing climate change will require adding renewable energy wherever possible and, for us as a company, making decisions that have an impact beyond our walls. We’ve asked ourselves: how can we use our purchasing to do the most good in the broader energy system?"

    So are Alphabet execs patting each other on the back satisfied? Nope, they say they can do better and the next goal is physically powering each and every Google facility with 100% locally-produced renewable energy sources. That's not going to be at all easy but they've committed themselves to making it happen. https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-environment.appspot.com/pdf/achieving-100-renewable-energy-purchasing-goal.pdf

    Receiving an award for sustainability last week in Europe, Google’s VP of data centers Joe Kava restated that goal. “While in 2017 we matched 100 percent of our data center consumption and Google enterprise consumption with renewable energy, we can do better, and our new commitment is to match hour for hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week with renewable energy,” he said from stage after receiving the award from the data center industry group Infrastructure Masons.

    “That’s really almost impossible today,” he continued. “There’s new technology that has to be developed to enable this, but I think that we can do it, and we’ll be demonstrating and showing the industry how we can do this and leading the way so that others can follow suit.”

    https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/energy/google-says-it-can-do-better-renewables-data-centers-offices

    That's values. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on 'em. 



    edited August 8 muthuk_vanalingamphilboogie
  • Reply 14 of 24
    FolioFolio Posts: 600member
    Almost missed this piece, reading on my iphone x. Much new to me I'm embarassed to say. Certainly if more (esp Millennials and Europeans) knew about this would be better for all. Hope AI editors consider upgrading placement so story floats as top headline for awhile.
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 24
    Most of the comments about Apple making those changes to improve their image are correct. 

    It wasn't until a Chinese activist started documenting the dumping of toxic byproducts and showed Apple the evidence is when Apple got involved auditing its supply chain. They turned a blind eye to Foxconn, but so did Compaq, Dell, HP, Sony and Microsoft as they all used Foxconn to assemble their products. 

    Apple talks about being green when it comes to renewable energy, but most of not all of their retail stores are counted as green because they buy renewable energy credits. Plus very few areas where their stores are located recycle, so there is plenty of opportunity for Apple to demand that landlords recycle and even allow solar panels where feasible. 

    Employee relations have slowly gotten better. Retail employees are no longer searched when leaving work.  Work/life balance has slowly been improving but Apple still has opportunity there. Pay is still lopsided and should be revisited to even the play field and retain good employees.

    DED does have a point that no other company has made it a priority to inform the public of the importance of recycling, using renewable energy and being responsible in handling the byproducts that remain after manufacturing their products. 

    While DED does not mention customers also have influenced positive changes with Apple, I will. This site and others and people who comment on them have helped make positive changes in Apple’s behavior.

    Keep up the honest feedback and don’t turn into rabid fanbois who never criticize their beloved company when they have done something wrong or questionable.  
  • Reply 16 of 24
    Oh gee another DED Apple good competition bad article. One wonders if this is all just projection. I mean if you have to keep writing editorials saying how good Apple is...
    ...maybe it's because there appears to be a lot of articles out there saying how bad Apple is.
    philboogiewatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 24
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,730member
    Oh gee another DED Apple good competition bad article. One wonders if this is all just projection. I mean if you have to keep writing editorials saying how good Apple is...
    You keep repeating this. What do you think ‘projection’ actually means?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 24
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,730member
    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    That you think values come from “PR folks” betrays your lack of understanding on the topic. You can’t fake admirable values with PR people. You have to have them. At the top, on down. Culture is real and culture is chosen. Responsible values is part of Apple’s culture, it’s not a marketing gimmick as you suggest. 

    Google and their followers just don’t get it. Which is why they aren’t Apple. 
    You are suggesting Google has no values and Apple does. I perfectly understand what you're saying, and I'm suggesting you don't know any better because Google is so poor at promoting them. You are the one not getting it IMHO.  Example:

    Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to acquire enough energy from 100% renewable sources (thanks for the rewording suggestion @foregoneconclusion ) to power all their operations for consecutive years. That requires true commitment. Had it been Apple with that achievement they'd be releasing press pieces and supplying statements to all the popular tech and environmental blogs. Heck Tim Cook may have made his own proud statement about it.  You and everyone else would know and pat them on the back for being such a friend to the environment...

    But Google quietly posted the story (which would have been big news for Apple) on their own blog where in general it was ignored and received no mention elsewhere. 

    Values.

    Example 2:
    Google contributes more to charitable causes each year than any other big tech, in fact in top 5 of ALL companies in the country. Have you ever seen that mentioned? Not likely. 

    Values.

    Example 3: Did you know Google donates hundreds of $Millions each year for crisis relief? Everything from assisting hurricane and typhoon victims with supplies and services, to searching for an answer to Ebola and Zika pandemics, to offering supporting hardware and services to responding crisis agencies, to reaching out to offer help to refugees displaced by war or politics through no fault of their own.  Nope, you probably didn't know.

    Values.

    There's more examples if you still don't get the point I was making but I suspect a light is starting to glow a bit in your head. Not self-promoting your values is NOT the same as not having them. 

    So no sir it is you who doesn't seem to understand the importance and benefit of great PR, and DED himself would disagree with you based on just the first headline of his piece.  Somehow you manage to believe there's little reason to influence market and consumer perception by advertising your values via good PR.  You do not give due credit to the business/market advantages of it and then take the lack of advertising those values in other companies as proof no one but Apple has values anyway.

    Instead have you considered you didn't know any better because no one else has as effectively talked about it as Apple?
    You being a longtime fan of Apple I'm frankly shocked at how easily you dismiss "promotion of values" as a marketing advantage for Apple over other companies. No one does it better IMHO and enterprises can learn a lot from them.

    Google is just horrid at tooting its own horn. You still imagine Google would not benefit from better PR, ala Apple? If so you still don't understand. 
    Well, with you racing around the internet blowing Google’s horn at every unwarranted opportunity, perhaps they don’t feel the need. 

    The problem is that you don’t understand marketing as well as Google. Good marketing is a matter of placement and timing. You’re aiming for the maximum impact for the money you spend. 

    Google doesn’t make a huge deal about its green credentials and charitable donations because it knows that vast majority of its target audience doesn’t really care about that kind of stuff. 

    Timing is another aspect Google understands. There is no point trying to market yourself when you’re under scrutiny for wrongdoing. Your message just comes across as trying to dig yourself out of a PR hole. With folk becoming more switched on to privacy issues, Google is now in silent-runnng mode so that they don’t get caught up in the Facebook shitstorm. When it blows over, they’ll come out of the ground. 

    Last year, Google’s culture of institutionalised sexism and harassment got so bad that employees walked out in support of the victims. Would that have been a good time to start pushing their green creds?

    Further proof that Google’s marketing chops is its recent attempts to redefine privacy to suit its own agenda. While Apple regards privacy as not taking your private information, Google would like us to regard privacy as taking your private data then trusting them or their partners not to misuse it or pass it on. 

    No, contrary to what you think, Google understands marketing very well. 
    edited August 9 watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    Rayz2016 said:
    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    That you think values come from “PR folks” betrays your lack of understanding on the topic. You can’t fake admirable values with PR people. You have to have them. At the top, on down. Culture is real and culture is chosen. Responsible values is part of Apple’s culture, it’s not a marketing gimmick as you suggest. 

    Google and their followers just don’t get it. Which is why they aren’t Apple. 
    You are suggesting Google has no values and Apple does. I perfectly understand what you're saying, and I'm suggesting you don't know any better because Google is so poor at promoting them. You are the one not getting it IMHO.  Example:

    Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to acquire enough energy from 100% renewable sources (thanks for the rewording suggestion @foregoneconclusion ) to power all their operations for consecutive years. That requires true commitment. Had it been Apple with that achievement they'd be releasing press pieces and supplying statements to all the popular tech and environmental blogs. Heck Tim Cook may have made his own proud statement about it.  You and everyone else would know and pat them on the back for being such a friend to the environment...

    But Google quietly posted the story (which would have been big news for Apple) on their own blog where in general it was ignored and received no mention elsewhere. 

    Values.

    Example 2:
    Google contributes more to charitable causes each year than any other big tech, in fact in top 5 of ALL companies in the country. Have you ever seen that mentioned? Not likely. 

    Values.

    Example 3: Did you know Google donates hundreds of $Millions each year for crisis relief? Everything from assisting hurricane and typhoon victims with supplies and services, to searching for an answer to Ebola and Zika pandemics, to offering supporting hardware and services to responding crisis agencies, to reaching out to offer help to refugees displaced by war or politics through no fault of their own.  Nope, you probably didn't know.

    Values.

    There's more examples if you still don't get the point I was making but I suspect a light is starting to glow a bit in your head. Not self-promoting your values is NOT the same as not having them. 

    So no sir it is you who doesn't seem to understand the importance and benefit of great PR, and DED himself would disagree with you based on just the first headline of his piece.  Somehow you manage to believe there's little reason to influence market and consumer perception by advertising your values via good PR.  You do not give due credit to the business/market advantages of it and then take the lack of advertising those values in other companies as proof no one but Apple has values anyway.

    Instead have you considered you didn't know any better because no one else has as effectively talked about it as Apple?
    You being a longtime fan of Apple I'm frankly shocked at how easily you dismiss "promotion of values" as a marketing advantage for Apple over other companies. No one does it better IMHO and enterprises can learn a lot from them.

    Google is just horrid at tooting its own horn. You still imagine Google would not benefit from better PR, ala Apple? If so you still don't understand. 
    Well, with you racing around the internet blowing Google’s horn at every unwarranted opportunity, perhaps they don’t feel the need. 


    Is that what a forum moderator is tasked with?  

    IMO you should be encouraging thoughtful on-topic discussion and comments on articles and discouraging off-topic comments that have no purpose or intent other than denigating, or worse trolling, other members. While not to that level why would you yourself stoop to making comments on personalities instead of commenting on the points/info in a post or article? Serious question for you. 

    I tend to overlook regular members who if they don't like a post try to kill the messenger. That's just who they are, at least on the internet. I expect far more from a moderator tasked to be a forum leader and example of proper forum conduct. You shouldn't be getting anywhere near the same tar pit as the ones regularly trolling others here (and you know who they are)

    So I believe you're much better than that Radar, else the managers of the site would not have invited you to be a moderator in the first place. You've been specially entrusted with tasks and control tools on behalf of site owner/managers.  "Killing the messenger" is not one of them, nor does it need more encouragement. On the contrary you should be discouraging it when you see it.

    I've been in your shoes, multiple times, and understand what a moderators job is. I'm sure you do too. 
    edited August 9 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 20 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,925member
    Rayz2016 said:
    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    Thanks for writing this. It was a nice read and pretty well done. Apple has done an admirable job with promoting and marketing the idea of "values". Google couldn't market themselves out of a paper bag.

    Here's an idea for Alphabet: Hire of couple of upper-level Apple PR folks and give them real authority. Not as tho you can't afford it Google, ya gotta start someplace. 
    That you think values come from “PR folks” betrays your lack of understanding on the topic. You can’t fake admirable values with PR people. You have to have them. At the top, on down. Culture is real and culture is chosen. Responsible values is part of Apple’s culture, it’s not a marketing gimmick as you suggest. 

    Google and their followers just don’t get it. Which is why they aren’t Apple. 
    You are suggesting Google has no values and Apple does. I perfectly understand what you're saying, and I'm suggesting you don't know any better because Google is so poor at promoting them. You are the one not getting it IMHO.  Example:

    Google is the first big tech, in fact the first company of their size in any industry, to acquire enough energy from 100% renewable sources (thanks for the rewording suggestion @foregoneconclusion ) to power all their operations for consecutive years. That requires true commitment. Had it been Apple with that achievement they'd be releasing press pieces and supplying statements to all the popular tech and environmental blogs. Heck Tim Cook may have made his own proud statement about it.  You and everyone else would know and pat them on the back for being such a friend to the environment...

    But Google quietly posted the story (which would have been big news for Apple) on their own blog where in general it was ignored and received no mention elsewhere. 

    Values.

    Example 2:
    Google contributes more to charitable causes each year than any other big tech, in fact in top 5 of ALL companies in the country. Have you ever seen that mentioned? Not likely. 

    Values.

    Example 3: Did you know Google donates hundreds of $Millions each year for crisis relief? Everything from assisting hurricane and typhoon victims with supplies and services, to searching for an answer to Ebola and Zika pandemics, to offering supporting hardware and services to responding crisis agencies, to reaching out to offer help to refugees displaced by war or politics through no fault of their own.  Nope, you probably didn't know.

    Values.

    There's more examples if you still don't get the point I was making but I suspect a light is starting to glow a bit in your head. Not self-promoting your values is NOT the same as not having them. 

    So no sir it is you who doesn't seem to understand the importance and benefit of great PR, and DED himself would disagree with you based on just the first headline of his piece.  Somehow you manage to believe there's little reason to influence market and consumer perception by advertising your values via good PR.  You do not give due credit to the business/market advantages of it and then take the lack of advertising those values in other companies as proof no one but Apple has values anyway.

    Instead have you considered you didn't know any better because no one else has as effectively talked about it as Apple?
    You being a longtime fan of Apple I'm frankly shocked at how easily you dismiss "promotion of values" as a marketing advantage for Apple over other companies. No one does it better IMHO and enterprises can learn a lot from them.

    Google is just horrid at tooting its own horn. You still imagine Google would not benefit from better PR, ala Apple? If so you still don't understand. 
    Well, with you racing around the internet blowing Google’s horn at every unwarranted opportunity, perhaps they don’t feel the need. 

    The problem is that you don’t understand marketing as well as Google. Good marketing is a matter of placement and timing. You’re aiming for the maximum impact for the money you spend. 

    Google doesn’t make a huge deal about its green credentials and charitable donations because it knows that vast majority of its target audience doesn’t really care about that kind of stuff. 

    Timing is another aspect Google understands. There is no point trying to market yourself when you’re under scrutiny for wrongdoing. Your message just comes across as trying to dig yourself out of a PR hole. With folk becoming more switched on to privacy issues, Google is now in silent-runnng mode so that they don’t get caught up in the Facebook shitstorm. When it blows over, they’ll come out of the ground. 

    Last year, Google’s culture of institutionalised sexism and harassment got so bad that employees walked out in support of the victims. Would that have been a good time to start pushing their green creds?

    Further proof that Google’s marketing chops is its recent attempts to redefine privacy to suit its own agenda. While Apple regards privacy as not taking your private information, Google would like us to regard privacy as taking your private data then trusting them or their partners not to misuse it or pass it on. 

    No, contrary to what you think, Google understands marketing very well. 
    Thanks for going back to edit. Your initial post is sooo much better now. 

    Anyway you don't realize yet that you're actually reinforcing my point about bad PR. If their message was at all effective, and they were great at getting the word out there, we would all have been more aware of it. Heck, even I've missed that Google is trying to re-frame the privacy issue, assuming they're doing what you say they are.  That's just how bad they are at "marketing values". Even when they have the right idea they're terrible about promoting it. Terrible! 

    So these Google Marketing Chops you speak of? They don't have any IMO. As I said to begin with Alphabet is horrid at marketing their message or promoting their values. You didn't know anything about the ones I mentioned in all likelihood and I don't know anything about the one you just brought up. That's bad PR no matter how you cut it. 

    Hire a couple of execs from the Apple PR team would be my suggestion to Google. No one controls their message and promotion better or has the media contacts Apple does. If they have a story to get out there it's a done deal. It will be in business news, blogs, newspapers, investor trade papers, technology magazines and websites within a day if not hours....

    But Google has a blog of their own. Yippee! 
    edited August 9 muthuk_vanalingam
Sign In or Register to comment.