These folks should be working on rebuilding their credit/financial lives instead of applying for more credit cards.
Hey do you say the same to the entire construction and commercial development industry, which is based entirely on credit? Huge swaths of corporate America is run on credit, not cash. They do the exact same thing people do. And guess what happens when they fail or file bankruptcy? Creditors lose out. But you know what happens to the actual people running those corporations? The executives? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
In reality it is normal citizens, non-corporate people, who suffer in lending. Corporations aren't people and as such do not experience suffering. Irresponsible executives continue to become personally wealthy.
This is the nature of the rigged economy. Corporations don't suffer failure the way small fry do.
It's a little bit different taking out a loan to build a house or skyscraper vs. a loan to go on a vacation or pay for dinners out. One is way more secured and lower risk than the other. Don't take out loans and you'll never have any issues about not being able to pay. Studies have shown 100% of bankruptcies are on those with loans.
How exactly do you know what all of America spends on their credit cards? As a small-business owner, I know from first-hand account that a lot of people use credit cards for all facets of life and commerce -- not just your imagined fun stuff. My point stands -- most of world commerce is based on credit, not cash, so getting preachy about spending only in cash is ignorant of how the world actually runs. We have set a double-standard for corporate-people versus human-people. The consequences for corporate citizens to blow their loans is almost insignificant, compared to the hardship actual individuals suffer for the same.*
*When my most recent small business failed, I had to take on all the debt and responsibility via personal guarantees. Bankruptcy protection won't alleviate in my circumstances. If I were a much larger corporation, these losses would be absorbed by others, and the human executives would continue to receive personal wealth despite incurring massive losses. This system is how the wealthy protect their personal assets while taking on massive risks & failing.
We once ran the workforce through test applications, and found that contractors with higher pay and no debt were less likely to get an approval.
Several years ago I paid off my car and student loans early within a month of each other which caused my credit rating to drop from well into the Excellent range with an 800+ score to around 740–750 range which only Good. Within a couple months I had gone back up to Excellent, but I would've been hurt had I tried to secure a great interest rate during that time.
Mine dropped from 845 to 805 when I paid off my student loan. Unfortunately it stayed there.
I'm considering obtaining a loan for an airplane purchase. Because aircraft last so long and retain their value fairly well a 20 year loan under 6% APR is common for this type of transportation equipment. I'd do it because my investments have a better average return than that interest rate; hell, my dividends are over 3% and would pay for this investment right now. I would hope that my credit rating would increase with a record of on-time payments over the next couple decades.
What type of aircraft are you considering if you don't mind me asking?
That's a good question. I really don't know outside of a single piston engine plane that seats four. My needs for this first aircraft are pretty tame so even an old Cessna would be fine. I'd even consider partial ownership at this point. I mainly want it to go North and South while avoiding the excessive traffic LA and the Bay Area force on commuters, as well as being able to go East and West in a more direct route between cities and towns over the Sierras.
These folks should be working on rebuilding their credit/financial lives instead of applying for more credit cards.
Hey do you say the same to the entire construction and commercial development industry, which is based entirely on credit? Huge swaths of corporate America is run on credit, not cash. They do the exact same thing people do. And guess what happens when they fail or file bankruptcy? Creditors lose out. But you know what happens to the actual people running those corporations? The executives? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
In reality it is normal citizens, non-corporate people, who suffer in lending. Corporations aren't people and as such do not experience suffering. Irresponsible executives continue to become personally wealthy.
This is the nature of the rigged economy. Corporations don't suffer failure the way small fry do.
It's a little bit different taking out a loan to build a house or skyscraper vs. a loan to go on a vacation or pay for dinners out. One is way more secured and lower risk than the other. Don't take out loans and you'll never have any issues about not being able to pay. Studies have shown 100% of bankruptcies are on those with loans.
How exactly do you know what all of America spends on their credit cards? As a small-business owner, I know from first-hand account that a lot of people use credit cards for all facets of life and commerce -- not just your imagined fun stuff. My point stands -- most of world commerce is based on credit, not cash, so getting preachy about spending only in cash is ignorant of how the world actually runs. We have set a double-standard for corporate-people versus human-people. The consequences for corporate citizens to blow their loans is almost insignificant, compared to the hardship actual individuals suffer for the same.*
*When my most recent small business failed, I had to take on all the debt and responsibility via personal guarantees. Bankruptcy protection won't alleviate in my circumstances. If I were a much larger corporation, these losses would be absorbed by others, and the human executives would continue to receive personal wealth despite incurring massive losses. This system is how the wealthy protect their personal assets while taking on massive risks & failing.
We once ran the workforce through test applications, and found that contractors with higher pay and no debt were less likely to get an approval.
Several years ago I paid off my car and student loans early within a month of each other which caused my credit rating to drop from well into the Excellent range with an 800+ score to around 740–750 range which only Good. Within a couple months I had gone back up to Excellent, but I would've been hurt had I tried to secure a great interest rate during that time.
Mine dropped from 845 to 805 when I paid off my student loan. Unfortunately it stayed there.
I'm considering obtaining a loan for an airplane purchase. Because aircraft last so long and retain their value fairly well a 20 year loan under 6% APR is common for this type of transportation equipment. I'd do it because my investments have a better average return than that interest rate; hell, my dividends are over 3% and would pay for this investment right now. I would hope that my credit rating would increase with a record of on-time payments over the next couple decades.
What type of aircraft are you considering if you don't mind me asking?
That's a good question. I really don't know outside of a single piston engine plane that seats four. My needs for this first aircraft are pretty tame so even an old Cessna would be fine. I'd even consider partial ownership at this point. I mainly want it to go North and South while avoiding the excessive traffic LA and the Bay Area force on commuters, as well as being able to go East and West in a more direct route between cities and towns over the Sierras.
An older Piper 172 with good maintenance records is one to consider. FWIW I ran an FAA-Certified Repair Station for several years so kinda familiar with most small older small aircraft up thru King Air's and Navajo's.
Apple really has no business getting into this business, they are a tech company, not a financial company. What's next, the Apple Payday Lender Service?
That’s a curious thing to say given that Apple has been criticized for not putting their ever increasing cash hoard into high yield investments.
Aside from helping suppliers set up plant and facilities, what better way would Apple have to make good returns on that cash by putting it to use to help customers buy their products and services. Sure is better than investing in low yield treasuries and bonds.
Apple really has no business getting into this business, they are a tech company, not a financial company. What's next, the Apple Payday Lender Service?
That’s a curious thing to say given that Apple has been criticized for not putting their ever increasing cash hoard into high yield investments.
Aside from helping suppliers set up plant and facilities, what better way would Apple have to make good returns on that cash by putting it to use to help customers buy their products and services. Sure is better than investing in low yield treasuries and bonds.
Is Apple putting their own money behind this? I thought GS was backing it.
These folks should be working on rebuilding their credit/financial lives instead of applying for more credit cards.
Hey do you say the same to the entire construction and commercial development industry, which is based entirely on credit? Huge swaths of corporate America is run on credit, not cash. They do the exact same thing people do. And guess what happens when they fail or file bankruptcy? Creditors lose out. But you know what happens to the actual people running those corporations? The executives? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
In reality it is normal citizens, non-corporate people, who suffer in lending. Corporations aren't people and as such do not experience suffering. Irresponsible executives continue to become personally wealthy.
This is the nature of the rigged economy. Corporations don't suffer failure the way small fry do.
It's a little bit different taking out a loan to build a house or skyscraper vs. a loan to go on a vacation or pay for dinners out. One is way more secured and lower risk than the other. Don't take out loans and you'll never have any issues about not being able to pay. Studies have shown 100% of bankruptcies are on those with loans.
How exactly do you know what all of America spends on their credit cards? As a small-business owner, I know from first-hand account that a lot of people use credit cards for all facets of life and commerce -- not just your imagined fun stuff. My point stands -- most of world commerce is based on credit, not cash, so getting preachy about spending only in cash is ignorant of how the world actually runs. We have set a double-standard for corporate-people versus human-people. The consequences for corporate citizens to blow their loans is almost insignificant, compared to the hardship actual individuals suffer for the same.*
*When my most recent small business failed, I had to take on all the debt and responsibility via personal guarantees. Bankruptcy protection won't alleviate in my circumstances. If I were a much larger corporation, these losses would be absorbed by others, and the human executives would continue to receive personal wealth despite incurring massive losses. This system is how the wealth protect their personal assets while taking on massive risks.
I'm more than familiar with all of this. The amount of credit given and its interest rate is determined by the risk of the loan. Why do you think unsecured credit cards are limited to ~ $10k at 20% interest while a home loan is for $100's of thousands at 4%?
Yes, large corporations have measures put in place to shield executives from financial responsibility (fraud is still fraud though) and financial institutions know that. Small businesses don't get that protection generally. Unfortunately that is just part of life that we all have to deal with (and my wife is small business owner so I have some perspective). Except student loans and IRS debt I thought you can bankrupt everything else. Not saying it is pleasant or the best option, but an option.
I haven’t gotten a notification yet. I’m curious what rate I’ll get if I’m approved. My credit score is 805.
Please do post all followup when you get your offer.
I received a piddly $9,000 limit at 17.99% with a credit score of 802, a very mediocre offering from Goldman Sachs. They are probably too busy offering subprime credit lines. I'm what the credit industry calls a deadbeat.
The interest rate is irrelevant to me since I pay off all my cards every month. I have three cards that are around 19% interest rate. The lowest rate is 11.24% on the card from my credit union naturally.
My Apple Card's $9,000 limit is the lowest of all my cards. I have several with $25,000 limits and one card with a $40,000 limit.
Anyhow, it is doubtful that I will use the Apple Card much seeing as it does not export data to personal finance aggregators like Quicken, Mint.com, Banktivity and even Goldman Sachs' own Clarity Money service.
I need a comprehensive view of my personal finances and Apple Card is in its own stupid walled garden.
My capital one credit limit is $10K. I’ll be curious what Goldman offers.
Apple really has no business getting into this business, they are a tech company, not a financial company. What's next, the Apple Payday Lender Service?
That’s a curious thing to say given that Apple has been criticized for not putting their ever increasing cash hoard into high yield investments.
Aside from helping suppliers set up plant and facilities, what better way would Apple have to make good returns on that cash by putting it to use to help customers buy their products and services. Sure is better than investing in low yield treasuries and bonds.
The part the analysts are missing is: The mere fact the person has an iPhone and cell plan (assuming that they do), automatically means that they have some financial means. So, when they give them a very low credit line, their risks are minimized.
To equate this to the subprime mortgages -- where people with rotten credit and little or no income were given huge mortgages - is a false equivalency.
Well, a $200 iPhone 7 and $35/mo plan from Cricket doesn't mean they are all that financially capable.
My former son-in-law, his son, and his mother would be prime examples of barely getting by iPhone owners. One is retired with no assets other than SS, another is on SS disability as his only income, and the other just doesn't particularly like to work. Yet all three managed to get the very latest iPhone X two years ago from their cell provider (Verizon). Stupid financial decisions, but they just had to go for flashy-thing-to-make-an-impression over keeping the electricity on that has been cut-off at least two times since that I know of.
Just because someone has an iPhone is not evidence of creditworthiness or good decision-making.
The part the analysts are missing is: The mere fact the person has an iPhone and cell plan (assuming that they do), automatically means that they have some financial means. So, when they give them a very low credit line, their risks are minimized.
To equate this to the subprime mortgages -- where people with rotten credit and little or no income were given huge mortgages - is a false equivalency.
Well, a $200 iPhone 7 and $35/mo plan from Cricket doesn't mean they are all that financially capable.
[...] Just because someone has an iPhone is not evidence of creditworthiness or good decision-making.
Absolutely true. However, getting and retaining credit through that shiny Apple device may provide a different form of motivation to make payments on time. I know it’s not logical. But the element of association with Apple and the iPhone may make the difference.
We once ran the workforce through test applications, and found that contractors with higher pay and no debt were less likely to get an approval.
Several years ago I paid off my car and student loans early within a month of each other which caused my credit rating to drop from well into the Excellent range with an 800+ score to around 740–750 range which only Good. Within a couple months I had gone back up to Excellent, but I would've been hurt had I tried to secure a great interest rate during that time.
Mine dropped from 845 to 805 when I paid off my student loan. Unfortunately it stayed there.
I'm considering obtaining a loan for an airplane purchase. Because aircraft last so long and retain their value fairly well a 20 year loan under 6% APR is common for this type of transportation equipment. I'd do it because my investments have a better average return than that interest rate; hell, my dividends are over 3% and would pay for this investment right now. I would hope that my credit rating would increase with a record of on-time payments over the next couple decades.
What type of aircraft are you considering if you don't mind me asking?
That's a good question. I really don't know outside of a single piston engine plane that seats four. My needs for this first aircraft are pretty tame so even an old Cessna would be fine. I'd even consider partial ownership at this point. I mainly want it to go North and South while avoiding the excessive traffic LA and the Bay Area force on commuters, as well as being able to go East and West in a more direct route between cities and towns over the Sierras.
An older Piper 172 with good maintenance records is one to consider. FWIW I ran an FCC-Certified Repair Station for several years so kinda familiar with most small older small aircraft up thru King Air's and Navajo's.
Beech Bonanza would be one to consider as well. Good luck and enjoy.
I'm familiar with how credit cards work. Yes, Apple used to allow their logo to be slapped on someone else's credit card (I had the citibank one in the 90's) but this is different. Apple put tons of resources and marketing into it and it is known as the "Apple credit card" not the Goldman Sachs Visa with Apple rewards.
So they are putting extra effort into it to make it a more successful partnership. That's fine and while it might be new for Apple, it certainly isn't knew to the consumer credit card industry. United Airlines bombards my snail mail USPS mailbox with offers for their United Explorer card.
All credit cards have very high security and you're never responsible for any fraud anyway, this is commonplace. I use my card all the time and never had any fraud happen.
Yes, however some people will look at the absence of a printed card number on the physical titanium Apple Card as better security because some server at a restaurant can't just scribble down your card details during the few minutes they are processing your transaction at the POS terminal.
And even if one isn't liable for any fraud, one can certainly be inconvenienced by it.
I've had one instance of suspicious activity in the past three years. I immediately reported it to the card issuer and they sent out a card with a new number, but it still takes time to call, explain what happened. Sure I have other cards I can use in the interim but talking to a credit card customer service representative isn't exactly how I really want to be spending my time. Perhaps you are different.
Mint, Cricket, whatever, the service was not my point. I can get 4 lines (for my family) with unlimited LTE for $100/mo at Cricket. Mint charges the same but you have to prepay for a year and only get 12 GB/mo.
Again, a good example why you shouldn't be speaking on behalf of everyone. Your situation is different than mine and I don't have a family. I don't need unlimited LTE. I just need about 1.5 GB per month. If I can find a cheaper plan that still fits my needs, your plan is meaningless to me.
No need to be so angry. Everyone talks about the waiter stealing your credit card number but I've never had this happened to me or anyone I know; makes me wonder how common it is. Citibank (and probably others) allow you to file fraud online - it just takes seconds.
I'm not speaking on behalf of everyone. You mentioned that Mint was the best for you (and sort of chastised me for mentioning cricket) and I simply said Cricket is best for me.
The part the analysts are missing is: The mere fact the person has an iPhone and cell plan (assuming that they do), automatically means that they have some financial means. So, when they give them a very low credit line, their risks are minimized.
To equate this to the subprime mortgages -- where people with rotten credit and little or no income were given huge mortgages - is a false equivalency.
Well, a $200 iPhone 7 and $35/mo plan from Cricket doesn't mean they are all that financially capable.
Since they're credit limit is likely only $750, it is likely that they are financially capable enough.
Apple really has no business getting into this business, they are a tech company, not a financial company. What's next, the Apple Payday Lender Service?
That’s a curious thing to say given that Apple has been criticized for not putting their ever increasing cash hoard into high yield investments.
Aside from helping suppliers set up plant and facilities, what better way would Apple have to make good returns on that cash by putting it to use to help customers buy their products and services. Sure is better than investing in low yield treasuries and bonds.
Perhaps returned to shareholders as dividends (they are a publicly traded company) or reduce their pricing so more people can afford their stuff.
Why doesn't Apple buy homes and apartments and rent them out and have a cool energy use app for the iPhone so renters can see their monthly energy use? That would have good return on investment. Just like apple is not a real estate company, they are also not a financial company.
They sold low yield bonds to avoid paying taxes on repatriating their foreign cash.
We once ran the workforce through test applications, and found that contractors with higher pay and no debt were less likely to get an approval.
Several years ago I paid off my car and student loans early within a month of each other which caused my credit rating to drop from well into the Excellent range with an 800+ score to around 740–750 range which only Good. Within a couple months I had gone back up to Excellent, but I would've been hurt had I tried to secure a great interest rate during that time.
Mine dropped from 845 to 805 when I paid off my student loan. Unfortunately it stayed there.
I'm considering obtaining a loan for an airplane purchase. Because aircraft last so long and retain their value fairly well a 20 year loan under 6% APR is common for this type of transportation equipment. I'd do it because my investments have a better average return than that interest rate; hell, my dividends are over 3% and would pay for this investment right now. I would hope that my credit rating would increase with a record of on-time payments over the next couple decades.
Likely, but I think part of the equation is how much you owe versus the original credit line. So, it might increase over time just from that - PLUS even more if you don't miss any payments.
The part the analysts are missing is: The mere fact the person has an iPhone and cell plan (assuming that they do), automatically means that they have some financial means. So, when they give them a very low credit line, their risks are minimized.
To equate this to the subprime mortgages -- where people with rotten credit and little or no income were given huge mortgages - is a false equivalency.
Well, a $200 iPhone 7 and $35/mo plan from Cricket doesn't mean they are all that financially capable.
My former son-in-law, his son, and his mother would be prime examples of barely getting by iPhone owners. One is retired with no assets other than SS, another is on SS disability as his only income, and the other just doesn't particularly like to work. Yet all three managed to get the very latest iPhone X two years ago from their cell provider (Verizon). Stupid financial decisions, but they just had to go for flashy-thing-to-make-an-impression over keeping the electricity on that has been cut-off at least two times since that I know of.
Just because someone has an iPhone is not evidence of creditworthiness or good decision-making.
No, there are no guarantees in the credit industry. Even the guy with a 20 year job, $100K income and no missed payments can turn out to be a jerk.
But, they go by what they can -- and simply having an iPhone and cell plan (without any negatives) provides a starting point for them, enough to start them off on a low credit limit.
I presume they’re not taking people with bankruptcy on their credit history…
There's more to it than your credit score, but a bankruptcy usually isn't a detrimental factor. Perhaps most notably is that once you have a discharge you have to wait 8 years before you can file again. It really doesn't take a long time to regain a Good or Excellent credit rating after a discharge if you've actively worked to build and maintain a credit history in good standing.
Exactly, A family member just bought a house this week and they went through bankruptcy in 2017 for medical reasons and their credit is already back up in the 700’s.
There is an abundance of easy credit out in the marketplace. Nissan and Fiat/Chrysler have been financing anyone with a pulse for quite a few years to build market share.
The decade of easy money since the 2007-8 financial crisis and 2008-9 recession will come back to bite. Bet on it.
These folks should be working on rebuilding their credit/financial lives instead of applying for more credit cards.
You can't rebuild your credit without rebuilding your credit.
You are not responsibly using credit paying usurious rates on credit cards. Has not been that long ago that loans above 10% were only from mobsters and loan sharks.
I'm familiar with how credit cards work. Yes, Apple used to allow their logo to be slapped on someone else's credit card (I had the citibank one in the 90's) but this is different. Apple put tons of resources and marketing into it and it is known as the "Apple credit card" not the Goldman Sachs Visa with Apple rewards.
So they are putting extra effort into it to make it a more successful partnership. That's fine and while it might be new for Apple, it certainly isn't knew to the consumer credit card industry. United Airlines bombards my snail mail USPS mailbox with offers for their United Explorer card.
All credit cards have very high security and you're never responsible for any fraud anyway, this is commonplace. I use my card all the time and never had any fraud happen.
Yes, however some people will look at the absence of a printed card number on the physical titanium Apple Card as better security because some server at a restaurant can't just scribble down your card details during the few minutes they are processing your transaction at the POS terminal.
And even if one isn't liable for any fraud, one can certainly be inconvenienced by it.
I've had one instance of suspicious activity in the past three years. I immediately reported it to the card issuer and they sent out a card with a new number, but it still takes time to call, explain what happened. Sure I have other cards I can use in the interim but talking to a credit card customer service representative isn't exactly how I really want to be spending my time. Perhaps you are different.
Mint, Cricket, whatever, the service was not my point. I can get 4 lines (for my family) with unlimited LTE for $100/mo at Cricket. Mint charges the same but you have to prepay for a year and only get 12 GB/mo.
Again, a good example why you shouldn't be speaking on behalf of everyone. Your situation is different than mine and I don't have a family. I don't need unlimited LTE. I just need about 1.5 GB per month. If I can find a cheaper plan that still fits my needs, your plan is meaningless to me.
No need to be so angry. Everyone talks about the waiter stealing your credit card number but I've never had this happened to me or anyone I know; makes me wonder how common it is. Citibank (and probably others) allow you to file fraud online - it just takes seconds.
I'm not speaking on behalf of everyone. You mentioned that Mint was the best for you (and sort of chastised me for mentioning cricket) and I simply said Cricket is best for me.
Lighten up a bit.
I've had mine stolen twice. I caught them only because I have alerts turned on so I get a message whenever a transaction occurs. Otherwise, since they were smallish gas station charges I probably would have passed them through if I only had my monthly statement to go on -- why would I question $25 at a BP station? They're smart -- they want to keep on using the card they bought.
Comments
*When my most recent small business failed, I had to take on all the debt and responsibility via personal guarantees. Bankruptcy protection won't alleviate in my circumstances. If I were a much larger corporation, these losses would be absorbed by others, and the human executives would continue to receive personal wealth despite incurring massive losses. This system is how the wealthy protect their personal assets while taking on massive risks & failing.
That’s a curious thing to say given that Apple has been criticized for not putting their ever increasing cash hoard into high yield investments.
Aside from helping suppliers set up plant and facilities, what better way would Apple have to make good returns on that cash by putting it to use to help customers buy their products and services. Sure is better than investing in low yield treasuries and bonds.
Yes, large corporations have measures put in place to shield executives from financial responsibility (fraud is still fraud though) and financial institutions know that. Small businesses don't get that protection generally. Unfortunately that is just part of life that we all have to deal with (and my wife is small business owner so I have some perspective). Except student loans and IRS debt I thought you can bankrupt everything else. Not saying it is pleasant or the best option, but an option.
Absolutely true. However, getting and retaining credit through that shiny Apple device may provide a different form of motivation to make payments on time. I know it’s not logical. But the element of association with Apple and the iPhone may make the difference.
I'm not speaking on behalf of everyone. You mentioned that Mint was the best for you (and sort of chastised me for mentioning cricket) and I simply said Cricket is best for me.
Lighten up a bit.
Why doesn't Apple buy homes and apartments and rent them out and have a cool energy use app for the iPhone so renters can see their monthly energy use? That would have good return on investment. Just like apple is not a real estate company, they are also not a financial company.
They sold low yield bonds to avoid paying taxes on repatriating their foreign cash.
But, they go by what they can -- and simply having an iPhone and cell plan (without any negatives) provides a starting point for them, enough to start them off on a low credit limit.
A family member just bought a house this week and they went through bankruptcy in 2017 for medical reasons and their credit is already back up in the 700’s.
There is an abundance of easy credit out in the marketplace. Nissan and Fiat/Chrysler have been financing anyone with a pulse for quite a few years to build market share.
The decade of easy money since the 2007-8 financial crisis and 2008-9 recession will come back to bite. Bet on it.
You are not responsibly using credit paying usurious rates on credit cards. Has not been that long ago that loans above 10% were only from mobsters and loan sharks.