an old 8600/250 tower fell into my lap....

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thegeldingthegelding
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
and now my lap hurts!!



nah, just kidding...



but i now have this new for me, but fairly old computer....what should i do with it?? will it run os X?? should i keep it as an os 9 machine??



clean installing it now with 9.1 (gelding note: this just made the turbo mouse attached to it non-usable..dang it...have to rummage through my garage to find an old mouse as this 8600 doesn't have the orginal mouse)



looks to only have 96 mb of ram, so i guess i should up that....



never had a tower before (started with a quadra 605 in 1992, then iMac DV in 1999 and now iMac FP in 2002...tower would now just be a toy to play with...need ideas on how to get it running to it's potential without throwing too much money at a 6 year old computer...



thanks for the advice and suggestions....g



[ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    iDunno, but RAM and big drives are cheap, you could always use it as a home server.



    What's it worth on eBay?
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  • Reply 2 of 30
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    I literally threw away 4 8600/250's recently. They are good OS 8.6 machines but it was more cost effective to upgrade to G4 towers (2 years ago) than to max out the memory, get new hard drives, and a CPU upgrade. But G3/4 upgrades for those machines are faily cheap now.



    Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G4/700MHz with 1MB 3.5:1 L3 Cache -$297.99



    Sonnet TempoTrio Ultra ATA133 Controller for PCI Macintoshes ( supports up to 4 internal IDE/ATA Hard Drives), 2 Port Firewire and 2 Port USB 2.0/1.1 Combo PCI Card. -$179.00



    128MB 168 Pin Mac 5V DIMM 60NS -$26.99@ max out to 1GB - $215.92



    ATI Technologies RADEON 7000 MacEdition PCI Graphics Card - $119.95



    Total = $812.86 for the best upgrade you can do to that machine. it would let you run OS X well, run any app you can throw at it and let you upgrade to IDE drives, use USB printers and Firewire peripherals.



    If that's overkill (and it is IMO) then you can do some moderate upgrades:



    Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G3/400 MHz w/512k Backside Cache 3:1 - $99



    128MB 168 Pin Mac 5V DIMM 60NS -$26.99@ get 4 for 512MB RAM - $107.96



    ATI Radeon 32MB PCI - $50



    Total = $256.96     for a set up that would let you run OS X



    All prices are from OWC except for the Radeon 32MB card, which i saw on ebay, so YPMV.
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  • Reply 3 of 30
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Also, IIRC, the 8600/250 has a 7200rpm 4GB SCSI drive, pretty decent for a start up drive. but for further storage you are going to want to use IDE devices, especially for over 40GB as SCSI drives are prohibitively expensive. It's up to you on how much you want to spend. keep in mind that it will always only have a 50MHz bus and the Mach 5 motherboards are slightly sketchy when it comes to CPU upgrades although i think most of the modern upgrades handle them correctly.
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  • Reply 4 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    dang, outsider...thanks for the info....i actually just wanted to play with it as an os 9 machine...thinking of using "as is" except more ram...i already have two iMacs at home running X...if i need another computer at home it will likely be a portable with airport for the kids (an iBook or PB 12")....



    will keep all those suggestions in mind though....



    hmmmmm, could basically have another computer at home running os X for about 300 bucks?? that could be tempting....





    g



    damn you outsider...you have me thinking of fixing this thing up now...bastard ....



    so ram, what is the difference from EDO and non-Edo?? which do i get...shit, i will probably upgrade to a G3 now too...it would be basically the same as the iMac in the kids room (they have the iMac DV with a G3 running at 400 MHz and 386 of ram)....





    mmmm, so more ram and a processor upgrade and a second harddrive??



    again, i call you bastard ....making me spend money when i don't need to...damn you....g



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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  • Reply 5 of 30
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member
    Hey Outsider, do you have any hands on experience with these upgrade cards?



    I have a bunch of 8500's but have always held back on upgrade cards thinking that there's some performance bottleneck somewhere. Do these cards get around such a problem?



    thanks
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  • Reply 6 of 30
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    EDO (Extended Data Out) memory modules are slightly faster than plain FPM (Fast Paged Mode) ones: get EDO memory if you can.



    Both types have been superseded by SDRAM and DDR SDRAM for quite a while now.



    I find that the Sonnet 400MHz G3 makes my 6400 is quite speedy, probably due to the 2MB of L2 cache making up for the slow bus speed when the machine is compared to "real" G3s.



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: Stoo ]</p>
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  • Reply 7 of 30
    gizzmonicgizzmonic Posts: 511member
    you need a 604e (not a 604) to run OS X. And you need xpostfacto which you can get from <a href="http://eshop.macsales.com"; target="_blank">http://eshop.macsales.com</a>;



    I'm actually playing with a 9500, trying to set it up as a router/firewall for my cable modem. My Powerlogix CPU upgrade cards has been pretty flaky in OS X, but if you're just gonna run OS 9, I'm sure it would be sufficient.
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  • Reply 8 of 30
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [quote]Originally posted by thegelding:

    <strong>dang, outsider...thanks for the info....i actually just wanted to play with it as an os 9 machine...thinking of using "as is" except more ram...i already have two iMacs at home running X...if i need another computer at home it will likely be a portable with airport for the kids (an iBook or PB 12")....



    will keep all those suggestions in mind though....



    hmmmmm, could basically have another computer at home running os X for about 300 bucks?? that could be tempting....





    g



    damn you outsider...you have me thinking of fixing this thing up now...bastard ....



    so ram, what is the difference from EDO and non-Edo?? which do i get...shit, i will probably upgrade to a G3 now too...it would be basically the same as the iMac in the kids room (they have the iMac DV with a G3 running at 400 MHz and 386 of ram)....





    mmmm, so more ram and a processor upgrade and a second harddrive??



    again, i call you bastard ....making me spend money when i don't need to...damn you....g



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Like i said, upgrading the machine may be cost effective but for me here it's easier and better to just get new machines, since it's not out of my pocket. At home I have a G4 DA machine i have done plenty of upgrades on, stuff I would not consider doing at work as much like CPU, CDRW, and graphics upgrades. And also you can't mix and match EDO and FPM memory in those machines. It must be either one or the other. For OS X i would not bother too much with another HD unless you want to do some serious movies work or download MP3s. 4GB should be enough for an OS and some apps. but then again apps are getting bigger and bigger so investing in an IDE card and IDE drive may be a good idea. All depends on how much bread you want to spend.



    Satchmo: I would consider upgrading those machines IF money is tight at where you work, but not with the purpose of running OS X. If you want to make them decent OS 9 machines for Quark or general office work then a CPU upgrade and RAM upgrade is ideal for that machine. The bottleneck on those machines is the 50MHz 60x bus. A 500MHz G3 upgraded 8500 will always feel slower than a 500MHz B&W machine. You may be better off donating them to a school and getting some tax relief that way. thats what we did.
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  • Reply 9 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    first---thanks outside...you help and knowledge is wonderful to get...all the damns and bastards are in jest....





    ok, how do i tell if i have edo or fpm ram??





    so i see three paths...



    path one (the path of least resistence....to my wallet)...keep it OS 9.1 and up the ram by 256 or so....keep it was a simple machine for playing old programs that don't like os x and as a back up for using word or such things when the other macs are occupied by the kids or wife



    cost: 55 to 104 bucks to add 256 to 512 of ram to the 96 already inside (or just get 512 of EDO ram and trash the 96 i have inside)





    path two (the path to make it similar to the old iMac DV G3 in the kid's room)...1) get sonnet cresendo/PCI G3/400 mhz 2) get 512 ram 3) get graphic card (what card is currently on the 8600??) 4) add OS X

    so: 100 + 100 + 69 (edu price of jag) + graphics card price= approx 300 for a similar (?) machine for both of the kids room



    path three (the path to drive my wife crazy and make this computer a G4 Os X machine)...see outsider's first post...costs: ouch...just buy an eMac....



    so my final questions are....how easy is it to muck around inside these machines...remember that i have no tower playing around experience...i would need to remove and add ram (easy..except i only see two slots that are easy to get too...the other slots are hidden)...add a processor card (harder?) and get it all to run....



    leaning towards path a...cheap upgrade to use a old machine till i decide to get a laptop....



    the up side of this machine is that it was hooked to a very nice HP laserjet printer....i think that printer may also fall into my lap...





    thanks again....g



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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  • Reply 10 of 30
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    It's incredibly easy to get at the innards. When you open it up, do you see 2 translucent green latches near the middle? Flip them both up and pull on the brown (or black) plastic cage so the powersupply/drive bays flip upward. You have just exposed the whole motherboard.



    The apple manual will help explain it better: <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=51132&amp;SaveKCWindowURL=http:% 2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePa ge&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&s howButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=false&s essionID=anonymous%7C166383301" target="_blank">See here</a> on page 123 of the 030-5421 manual for the 8600 series.



    PS, good luck, but you have a nice machine to start out with and you can't beat the price and it will run OS 9 mighty fine with most apps. Would make a decent browsing station, as is, even with out the CPU upgrade. But you may crave more speed so $99 for a 400MHz G3 isn't too bad.



    PSS, there isn't an easy way to find out what kind of RAM you have unless you pull one out and see if it says EDo on the lable or something. i have a memory tester here at work that would tell you but you know, the whole east coast /west coast thing . 96Mb ain't much to write home about. It wouldn't be a travesty to just dump it.



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>
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  • Reply 11 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    cool....think i'll ram it up and go G3 also...g



    flips up nicely...don't see edo on any of the ram chips (2 16 mb and 1 64 mb)...should i leave them in and get a couple of 128 mb non edo chips or throw them out and get a couple of 128mb edo chips...ie is 256 edo better than 352 non edo??



    or maybe i should splurg and get 4 128 edo and be done with it.....



    depends on if i decide to go os X i guess...if i stay os 9 i can run 256 ram and be sitting pretty...if i try to go os x on this puppy i would guess i need the G3 400 and more ram...



    g



    [ 03-13-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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  • Reply 12 of 30
    baumanbauman Posts: 1,248member
    I have a 8500/120 running iTunes on OS 9 just beautifully as a jukebox. I have 196 MB of memory, and an IDE controller card for a 60GB HD. Using <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13021"; target="_blank">iHam on iRye</a>, I can even talk to it from the other computers in the house... even OS X ones!



    I use the s-video out to hook it up to the TV screen (which is right by my stereo system) when I do need to see something on the screen. Granted, the resolution sucks, but it's better than buying a whole new monitor.
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  • Reply 13 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    ps...can i make this machine airport compatible??



    i have three pci slots...i was thinking of one gets a G3 card, one gets a graphic card and one gets a airport card???

    g
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  • Reply 14 of 30
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    My 8500/120 has a separate processor daughter card. If you upgrade your processor, can't you replace it and not fill up a PCI slot? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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  • Reply 15 of 30
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    You can buy an 802.11b (Airport compatible) or 802.11g (Airport Extreme compatible) PCI card but it's probably a better idea to use the built in fast ethernet port if you can, as it'll be faster and cheaper.
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  • Reply 16 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    something like this



    or

    this



    ??



    thanks....slow deciding on this



    gonna start with more ram and a G3 card



    then make it wireless and work with my airport basestation



    then possibly go to os x



    g
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  • Reply 17 of 30
    digitalmonkeyboydigitalmonkeyboy Posts: 225member
    You should preserve it as a good legacy machine and play Marathon ALL DAY!



    OS9 or 8.6



    Keep 256 MB in it and use it serve files (put a SCSI2 disk in it)



    You could take out the processor daughter card and stick a G3 or G4 in there but that'd be gross.

    Maybe find an ixMicro 8 MB video card for it or a Voodoo 5 and for god sake make sure it knows its loved.
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  • Reply 18 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    or is this what i need to go wireless on this 8600??



    here





    dang...now i know why we have iMacs...i am probably way too simple-minded for a tower...and i am the most computer savvy person at work or home....scary





    g
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  • Reply 19 of 30
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    and should i go OS 9 or OS X



    if i stay 9 i could make this my Quark machine



    g
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  • Reply 20 of 30
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Stoo

    ... use the built in fast ethernet port if you can, as it'll be faster and cheaper.



    The Beige G3 has a built-in 10Mbit Ethernet port so I don't think the 8600 has a fast ethernet port.
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