Apple reportedly kills project to turn iPhone into 'walkie talkie'

Posted:
in iPhone edited August 2019
A project to enable iPhones to communicate with each other wirelessly over distance for essential communication without the use of cellular or other network infrastructure has allegedly been put on hold, with the leader of the venture's exit from the company likely to be a main reason for the end of the potentially life-saving scheme.

Group FaceTime on iOS 12.1
Group FaceTime on iOS 12.1


Communication is an essential ability in many areas of life, but especially so in dangerous or potentially life-threatening situations. While smartphones have revolutionized telecommunications in general, there is always the issue of being able to make contact in areas where no cellular coverage is available, such as on a ski slope, making other forms of communication not tied to a wider network more useful.

According to The Information, Apple had a project in development that would have effectively turned an iPhone into a "walkie talkie," where it would use its wireless systems to communicate with another device at a long range, without using infrastructure like a mobile phone network. In effect, it would mean the two iPhones would create an ad-hoc network for direct communications with each other.

Intel was working with Apple on the technology, two people familiar with the project advised, with the concept allowing messages to be transferred between the devices, despite being in a remote area with no cellular signal.

Apple has been sitting on the concept for some time, with one patent filing from 2010 detailing a "Short Message Service-Point to Point" (SMS-PP) protocol that performs such a task without requiring a backend server, as needed for existing messaging services. It is also suggested the message data could be passed between sender and receiver via voice-channel only instead of a data channel.

It is unclear why Apple suspended the program, but it is thought the project's champion leaving of Apple earlier in 2019 was a major contributor to its demise. Ruben Caballero, who was a lead engineer on Apple's 5G modem project, left the company in April following a restructuring of the division, as well as a deal with Qualcomm to supply modems for iPhones.

Intel's decision to effectively exit the smartphone modem market following the Qualcomm deal may also have played a part in the project's termination. Even so, it is likely some of Intel's contribution to the project could be reused in the future, due to Apple's July acquisition of the chip maker's modem business for $1 billion.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    I didn't even consider this. Seems obvious after the Watch walkie-talkie announcement though. Could have been good but could still be coming!
    lolliverdoozydozenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 29
    Nextel.  Those were days.  I loved my old Nextel 7100i Blackberry.
    JWSCrazorpitflyingdp
  • Reply 3 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    TBH I would love for this to be an FCC mandated feature for ALL smartphones, at least in the case of a regional or national emergency. Hurricanes, state/region wide power outages, "other" national issue. For that matter I think FM radio capabilities should be required and active tho I get there's market reason for smartphone companies and carriers to strongly resist doing so. 
    edited August 2019 CloudTalkinrazorpitstardustagtyler82badmonkdoozydozenuraharajony0
  • Reply 4 of 29
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    gatorguy said:
    TBH I would love for this to be an FCC mandated feature for ALL smartphones, at least in the case of a regional or national emergency. Hurricanes, state/region wide power outages, "other" national issue. 
    No need for that, each iPhone contains a frequency synthesizer, that can be tuned to the free and open  walky-talky radio frequencies.  
    This ‘project’ could be completed in a few days (including the app).
    lostkiwigatorguyrazorpitberndogsteveaudoozydozenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 29
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 303member
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    knowitallgatorguyCloudTalkincornchipseanismorrisberndogdoozydozenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    knowitall said:
    gatorguy said:
    TBH I would love for this to be an FCC mandated feature for ALL smartphones, at least in the case of a regional or national emergency. Hurricanes, state/region wide power outages, "other" national issue. 
    No need for that, each iPhone contains a frequency synthesizer, that can be tuned to the free and open  walky-talky radio frequencies.  
    This ‘project’ could be completed in a few days (including the app).
    Without an FCC mandate to do so I'm not convinced companies and carriers will have any incentive to put it in use. 
    But thanks for the info too. I was not aware of that. 
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 7 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    IreneW said:
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    Another informative post. Thanks!
  • Reply 8 of 29
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,950member

    I wonder if some governments might not like this idea...
    doozydozenwatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 9 of 29
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 1,034member
    IreneW said:
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    Wasn’t the point of the Apple project to enable communication when no cellular infrastructure was available?  I don’t see how implementing part of the 5G standard would meet that need. Perhaps you’re mentioning 5G as an example of infrastructure that isn’t available. 😝 
    StrangeDayslolliverflyingdpwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 29
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,727member
    Nextel.  Those were days.  I loved my old Nextel 7100i Blackberry.
    This. It’s ”old hat.” Shouldn’t be some big obstacle for Apple if they truly had an interest. 
  • Reply 11 of 29
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,727member
    cornchip said:

    I wonder if some governments might not like this idea...
    Any government that is ok with actual walkie-talkies being sold in stores should be just fine with it. 

    But yes, the evil draconian dictator governments that don’t want “deplorables” communicating without being spied on probably doesn’t allow their use anyway. 
    edited August 2019 StrangeDaysrazorpitcornchipdoozydozenwatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 12 of 29
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 363member
    I think and hope that this will inevitably happen soon or later. iOS13 already have device location though Bluetooth, without the need of cellular or wifi. I'm sure they're testing the waters to make messages work on a similar matter. FireChat used to be a great app, sadly it couldn't make a sustainable business. On the other hand, it makes sense for Apple to continue making the device more capable without internet connection, including Siri.
  • Reply 13 of 29
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,884member
    cornchip said:

    I wonder if some governments might not like this idea...
    Any government that is ok with actual walkie-talkies being sold in stores should be just fine with it. 

    But yes, the evil draconian dictator governments that don’t want humans communicating without being spied on probably doesn’t allow their use anyway. 
    Agreed. I imagine authoritative regimes inherently opposed to individual liberty, such as China, would not want this implemented in devices as small and plentiful as mobile phones.
    razorpitcornchiptmayflyingdpdoozydozen
  • Reply 14 of 29
    This shouldn’t be a difficult tweak for Apple.  My guess, there’s security issues with enabling “walkie talkie” on a locked iOS device. The sender talks before the recipient approves the connection.

    And,
    Remember this can of worms?

    Group FaceTime bug fix arriving in iOS update week of Feb. 4  
    “Apple has advised it has repaired a security hole in Group FaceTime that allowed users to listen in to others without their permission on its servers, with a software update to address the issue on iPhones and iPads arriving in the next week. ”
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/02/01/group-facetime-bug-fix-arriving-in-ios-update-week-of-feb-4

    Also, their was the bug allowing access to contacts when not logged in.
    edited August 2019 badmonkbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 15 of 29
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    IreneW said:
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    Can you give a specific link? I can't find anything about an unassisted 5G channel. For practical use, there would have to be several channels, and the frequency would have to be low (900 MHz or lower) to be usable for long range.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 29
    Funny how sometimes you read about a feature you didn’t even know about being shelved and immediately you miss it. 
    cornchipberndoglolliverwatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 17 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    GG1 said:
    IreneW said:
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    Can you give a specific link? I can't find anything about an unassisted 5G channel. For practical use, there would have to be several channels, and the frequency would have to be low (900 MHz or lower) to be usable for long range.
    From the source article:
    "Allowing devices to directly communicate with each other instead of going through a network is also being built into the standards for the current generation of cellular networks, known as LTE, along with next-generation 5G networks, said Mike Thelander, CEO of wireless research firm Signals Research Group."
    and:
    "Qualcomm has an implementation of LTE Direct that lets devices separated by more than a quarter-mile talk to each other. But handset makers haven’t yet incorporated the technology into their devices". 

    Visit GoTenna (https://gotenna.com/) for another example of how peer-to-peer might work in the absence of a cellular network. 
    edited August 2019 CloudTalkinwonkothesaneknowitall
  • Reply 18 of 29
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    gatorguy said:
    GG1 said:
    IreneW said:
    As far as I know, an unassisted peer-to-peer channel is already part of the 5G standard (release 14 or 15, I think). So, instead of implementing their own proprietary solution, Apple should promote this.
    Can you give a specific link? I can't find anything about an unassisted 5G channel. For practical use, there would have to be several channels, and the frequency would have to be low (900 MHz or lower) to be usable for long range.
    From the source article:
    "Allowing devices to directly communicate with each other instead of going through a network is also being built into the standards for the current generation of cellular networks, known as LTE, along with next-generation 5G networks, said Mike Thelander, CEO of wireless research firm Signals Research Group."
    and:
    "Qualcomm has an implementation of LTE Direct that lets devices separated by more than a quarter-mile talk to each other. But handset makers haven’t yet incorporated the technology into their devices". 

    Visit GoTenna (https://gotenna.com/) for another example of how peer-to-peer might work in the absence of a cellular network. 
    Thanks for the info. I'm actually curious on the nitty-gritty low-level details in the 5G spec, specifically how the 5G network implements this "failsoft" mode of operation. This is quite a neat feature if actually implemented the way I think it is.

    I looked at the goTenna link. It's a VHF/UHF radio "dongle" you carry with you that connects to your phone (via Bluetooth WiFi?) using a goTenna app for texting. The radio dongle does the mesh networking app presumably does the mesh networking with any existing goTenna user within range, and the phone merely is for texting. There is very little technical information, so I am making some assumptions. Nice concept.

    Edited for technical details.
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 19 of 29
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,256member
    knowitall said:
    gatorguy said:
    TBH I would love for this to be an FCC mandated feature for ALL smartphones, at least in the case of a regional or national emergency. Hurricanes, state/region wide power outages, "other" national issue. 
    No need for that, each iPhone contains a frequency synthesizer, that can be tuned to the free and open  walky-talky radio frequencies.  
    This ‘project’ could be completed in a few days (including the app).
    Is the frequency synthesizer accessible via an API? I imagine an app would already exist if it were. Guess I answered my own question. 
    edited August 2019
  • Reply 20 of 29
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,103member
    Walkie Backie
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