The way Apple has nailed the trackpad by way of force touch is nothing short of magical when you use it, and absolutely earns it’s name as the Magic Trackpad.
Basic idea here is that Apple would have the same kind of success with a keyboard, which would be an unbelievable outstanding achievement.
I’m unconvinced. Apple’s “Magic Mouse” is pretty poor (as has been every other mouse the company has ever made, weirdly enough).
My nearly three year old Touch Bar MBP with the "dreaded keyboard" that I use 6-12 hours a day, still zero problems.
Nobody I know in my creative circles have any issues either. 90% of the complaining I see about this online is from Marco Arment, who started whining about this keyboard from day one, before the "failures," and as far as I know has never had the issue.
And yet Apple has a repair program, so somebody must have problems. Weird I don't see this in the real world.
I agree. Marco Arment has made it his mission in life to trash the butterfly keyboard at every turn.
My wife and I have a late 2018 13” MBP with Touchbar, and it has worked trouble free since and is used at least a couple of hours per day. My wife, who uses it far more than I, loves the keyboard.
I’ve tried to listen to Arment’s ATP, but there’s something about those guys’ attitudes that rubs me the wrong way. They just like to fuss a lot.
i want apple to fulfill that patent awarded to them, the one with no keyboard and instead glass. i would like a macbook pro with a typical monitor with an ipad style bottom. this way i can have the true multilanguage keyboard like ios, and whatever else i want to configure it to be, or let app makers make touch interfaces down there too.
and i have had zero issues for 8 months with the butterfly keys.
My nearly three year old Touch Bar MBP with the "dreaded keyboard" that I use 6-12 hours a day, still zero problems.
Nobody I know in my creative circles have any issues either. 90% of the complaining I see about this online is from Marco Arment, who started whining about this keyboard from day one, before the "failures," and as far as I know has never had the issue.
And yet Apple has a repair program, so somebody must have problems. Weird I don't see this in the real world.
I agree. Marco Arment has made it his mission in life to trash the butterfly keyboard at every turn.
My wife and I have a late 2018 13” MBP with Touchbar, and it has worked trouble free since and is used at least a couple of hours per day. My wife, who uses it far more than I, loves the keyboard.
I’ve tried to listen to Arment’s ATP, but there’s something about those guys’ attitudes that rubs me the wrong way. They just like to fuss a lot.
...and my 2 year old MBP with a Touch Bar has had recurring problems with keys sticking. So which of us is lying? I'll give you a hint - neither. The failure rate on a part like a keyboard does not have to be very high to be a problem. If 1% of the keyboards had issues, it would still be too high.
Come on. The keyboard replacement program is a public relations move that Apple can afford to carry. Let’s face it, people have not learned how to eat and type.
Think about keyboards for a minute. What if for whatever reason a person buys a Steinway Grand piano, discovers that spilling a soft drink and recklessly spewing secondhand crumbs from their mouth and into the keyboard interferes with their musicianship. Only an idiot would consider it to be a Steinway fault.
So let’s face it. If Apple changes the keyboard mechanism, it is part of making their products idiot proof.
I have made it a point not to eat in front of my keyboard, but I end up using it at the kitchen table and there are invariably crumbs around that get onto they keyboard from my hands. Same problem in a lot of conference rooms. Crumbs are a fact of life for keywords, particularly laptop keyboards. and no other keyboard I've used has had issues like this one.
People are talking about the optical design as a means to fix the problem with the butterfly keyboards, but I don't think it would matter. The butterfly keyboards are cursed by problems with short travel and tight spaces. The result is that it takes a very small crumb to cause issues and it's hard for them to get out once they get in. If they had an identical mechanism with an optical switch instead of a mechanical one I doubt the result would be any different. it would probably use more battery, though.
The last optical keyboard I remember hearing about was all the way back in 1983, and it was a music keyboard... Sequential Circuits's Prophet T8. So this is not entirely unheard of.
I do wonder how this could be any more impervious to dust than current tech.
First off I don’t believe Apples problems are dust related. Some keyboards throughout the industry do fail that way but I believe Apple has had mechanical issues.
I actually thought about this back in 2018, though I changed my mind back & forth. Some of the keys become stiff without debris and back to normal days after.
I have the fourth-gen keyboard (which swapped the materials) and we'll see.
The way Apple has nailed the trackpad by way of force touch is nothing short of magical when you use it, and absolutely earns it’s name as the Magic Trackpad.
Basic idea here is that Apple would have the same kind of success with a keyboard, which would be an unbelievable outstanding achievement.
I’m unconvinced. Apple’s “Magic Mouse” is pretty poor (as has been every other mouse the company has ever made, weirdly enough).
Just because it's flooded with complaints doesn't mean they're poor from the start. Look how quick the Hockey Puck faded out where the Magic Mouse survived over a decade.
The real problem is the Mavis Beacon touch typists who will never be satisfied with any keyboard other than the traditional typewriter key look and feel. Andy Ihnatko on MacBreak Weekly is always bitching about keyboards on laptops and tablets.
Are you seriously complaining that there are people who are touch-typists?
If the "touch typist" by the definition was mechanical die-hards only, then yeah, chicklet sucks for them.
Apple, please stop trying to reinvent the keyboard. Just use the 2015 scissors version. It’s reliable, tactile and feels great to use with just the right amount of key travel. In other words, IT WORKS! If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.
Apple, please stop trying to reinvent the keyboard. Just use the 2015 scissors version. It’s reliable, tactile and feels great to use with just the right amount of key travel. In other words, IT WORKS! If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.
And they never receive much like from what I know, they don't stand out compared to other laptops.
All that talk about the 16" MBP going back to scissor keys… since when has Apple ever gone backward on anything? Maybe they'll re-introduce SCSI ports on the new Mac Pro while they're at it. No, whatever sort of key mechanism the next Apple laptop has, it won't be "the old one."
My point of view: butterfly keyboard puts a lot of force on a very thin flexible plastic connection between the two halves of a butterfly mechanism, because it effectively multiplies a key press force by a lever structure. If you strongly press a key with an obstacle inside (like a breadcrumb) it could stretch that connection damaging the mechanism. Scissor mechanism does not have any point that would multiply key press forces, making it much more robust even if made from the same materials. If Apple can make it thinner with carbon fibre or whatever, it seems like a great alternative to butterfly keys.
Comments
I’m unconvinced. Apple’s “Magic Mouse” is pretty poor (as has been every other mouse the company has ever made, weirdly enough).
My wife and I have a late 2018 13” MBP with Touchbar, and it has worked trouble free since and is used at least a couple of hours per day. My wife, who uses it far more than I, loves the keyboard.
I’ve tried to listen to Arment’s ATP, but there’s something about those guys’ attitudes that rubs me the wrong way. They just like to fuss a lot.
People are talking about the optical design as a means to fix the problem with the butterfly keyboards, but I don't think it would matter. The butterfly keyboards are cursed by problems with short travel and tight spaces. The result is that it takes a very small crumb to cause issues and it's hard for them to get out once they get in. If they had an identical mechanism with an optical switch instead of a mechanical one I doubt the result would be any different. it would probably use more battery, though.
I have the fourth-gen keyboard (which swapped the materials) and we'll see.
Still working after a year of use. We will see how long it will last. Maybe 5 years until I change my laptop?