No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.
Wow. Nice insult, Mike. Real people don’t expect to invest in all new accessories and adapters every time they eventually replace their old outdated MacBook Pro. There should be an expectation of some backward compatibility.
What are you talking about? Here’s a list of different ports on MacBook Pros going back to the original release:
Each release of the MacBook or MacBook Pro had different mixes of these ports. You have always needed to upgrade dongles or cables, depending on which model of device you were purchasing and the difference in time from your previous device to the new one.
USB-C is standardizing on the form-factor of multiple protocol and connection types. It makes it easier for manufacturing and device chassis and chip design.
I think for the majority of users they expect to upgrade cables or dongles on a new purchase.
They've pretty much addressed 100% of the complaints of the previous model (ESC key, KB, arrow keys, bezels, thermal system, etc). Also, 512GB and 16GB on base model is amazing. Not sure how anyone can NOT be satisfied. This seems like the perfect machine and looking forward to upgrading from my 2014 15".
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.
Wow. Nice insult, Mike. Real people don’t expect to invest in all new accessories and adapters every time they eventually replace their old outdated MacBook Pro. There should be an expectation of some backward compatibility.
What are you talking about? Here’s a list of different ports on MacBook Pros going back to the original release:
Each release of the MacBook or MacBook Pro had different mixes of these ports. You have always needed to upgrade dongles or cables, depending on which model of device you were purchasing and the difference in time from your previous device to the new one.
USB-C is standardizing on the form-factor of multiple protocol and connection types. It makes it easier for manufacturing and device chassis and chip design.
I think for the majority of users they expect to upgrade cables or dongles on a new purchase.
Maybe because people in this forum are stubborn as hell, as it has become more of a talking point than a real-case scenario. Both sides.
We'll see if it still has the keyboard/battery/ top case melded together design like the previous generations but in the EU it starts at 2,699€ and quickly blasts past 3,000€.
You're comparing it wrong. First, US prices exclude tax, European prices include VAT, ranging from 17% (Luxembourg) to 27% (Hungary).
Personally I think this laptop is dirt-cheap! Just look at the specs people, 500GB SSD 2,6‑GHz 6‑core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost upto 4,5 GHz, with 12 MB shared L3‑cache 16 GB 2666‑MHz DDR4 AMD Radeon Pro 5300M with 4 GB GDDR6
PS: what the heck are ' force-cancelling woofers'?
It's not really how we look at it in terms of right or wrong. It was just a reflection of reality.
As we can't escape sales tax in the EU, we end up paying it and price is a barrier for many people and even for those that can avoid it, it is still expensive.
That isn't a criticism, though, just an observation.
I hope the key changes to this machine cascade down the line quickly.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
Hmm, that's odd. I haven't spent a fucking dollar on adapters, yet I make 100% of my living using my MBP and do everything from design work, to coding, to video editing, print layout, web development, etc.
But no you're right, you just made me realize that the machine is 100% useless. Time to go out and buy "$100+ dollars of adapters" to make it "useful".
I honestly don't know if some of you are genuine trolls, or that disconnected from the real world.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
What an absolutely insane post. "Incapable POS"? Wow. You REALLY fucking expected them to go back and add ancient ports that they discontinued like 4 YEARS ago?! I'd love to know what you actually DO, to require this "massive shitpile" of adapters. TB3/USB are the most flexible, robust, powerful, and fastest ports in existence. It makes zero sense to add additional, single purpose ports that many people will never touch, and that will only add internal complexity, points of failure, weight, etc. Ethernet- really?! That's thicker than the computer itself. And not sure you've noticed, but most laptops with ethernet ports are sub $300 pieces of trash. Coincidence? So how many ports would be sufficient for you? Because obviously they can never add enough to fullfill every single use case and need. 3 more types? 5? 10?
Your backwards facing thinking is quite impressive. And your expectation that this machine would go back to add old ports Apple discontinued years ago is pretty insane, irrational, and hard to believe. Blows my mind that following Apple this long, you would actually expect that. Thank God people like you have nothing to do with decision making in the company, or we'd still be stuck with serial ports and optical drives.
It's interesting that the base price of ~$2300 is just about what the original Mac cost back in 1984. In terms of specs, it's an entirely different universe. Moreover, $2300 was a lot more money in 1984 than it is now. Computational power is insanely cheap now.
I'm saddled with a cheap Lenovo Win machine at work, it has all those ports SpamSandy is complaining about.
But you know what, I also have a breakout box that replicates all that, but connects via a single USB-C cable. So at the end of the day, instead of unplugging SEVEN cables to take my laptop home, I just unplug ONE.
If all those legacy connections are so mission critical, chances are you're not leveraging the primary use case for a laptop anyway (portability).
They've pretty much addressed 100% of the complaints of the previous model (ESC key, KB, arrow keys, bezels, thermal system, etc). Also, 512GB and 16GB on base model is amazing. Not sure how anyone can NOT be satisfied. This seems like the perfect machine and looking forward to upgrading from my 2014 15".
Yes I was wondering if they would do a 'pro' premium price increase
with the 16" - but they didn't raise the prices and actually made it a
better value.
That might be a good sign for the future pricing too (ar glasses, etc).
The
previous 15" with 6-core and 512gb was at least $200 extra i think
- here it comes with 512gb for
the base price of $2399.
For my 2018 15" 256gb I should of gone for the 512gb or higher.
I use a Samsung T5 512Gb ssd as working overflow drive, but it is still a bit clunky - would rather have it internal.
I
may have to take a loss and upgrade, as i like the performance of my 15
but dislike the keyboard quite a bit - if i pay attention to it - as i
do a fair bit of writing on it.
As far as the ports are concerned, here some things to consider.
Having
Usb-C probably allows for the thin form factor - which yes i am one who
likes thin design for portability/looks/weight - so would rather not
gain 0.5-1lb etc just to have 2 or 3 old usb ports on it.
Additionally,
in terms of the 'bus' of the motherboard - each component/port that is
slower on that bus might affect the performance of each 'cycle' or hertz
of that bus. So having only 4 high speed 40gb/sec thunderbolt 3 ports
may be good for performance/stability in that respect.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.
Wow. Nice insult, Mike. Real people don’t expect to invest in all new accessories and adapters every time they eventually replace their old outdated MacBook Pro. There should be an expectation of some backward compatibility.
What are you talking about? Here’s a list of different ports on MacBook Pros going back to the original release:
Each release of the MacBook or MacBook Pro had different mixes of these ports. You have always needed to upgrade dongles or cables, depending on which model of device you were purchasing and the difference in time from your previous device to the new one.
USB-C is standardizing on the form-factor of multiple protocol and connection types. It makes it easier for manufacturing and device chassis and chip design.
I think for the majority of users they expect to upgrade cables or dongles on a new purchase.
Maybe because people in this forum are stubborn as hell, as it has become more of a talking point than a real-case scenario. Both sides.
It’s pretty simple. People like to complain. People can also be pretty cheap. Spend a couple of thou on a machine, and complain that you also have to spend $50 or a bit more for adapters—horrors! I literally have boxes of obsolete cables going back a few decades. I throw some away every now and then. Sometimes someone can use a few, for old machines. What’s the point of complaining? Every time SCSI was upgraded we’d need new cables, new external drive cases, and often, new Adaptec boards inside our machines. That’s the way technology works. If people don’t like it, they can go into basket weaving.
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
Or you could just get a USB-C or TB dock? Or you could just swap out the USB-A cables with USB-C cables. That's what I did. Dongles be gone!
I have a few dongles for Ethernet, VGA, Firewire but they don't get much love these days.
The 15" MBP always had 4 Thunderbolt ports. So does the 13".
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Fantastic looking machine (both the design and the specs). My 2016 MBP is still holding its own (for the work I do) so no need to update yet. Maybe v3 or v4. Can the gpu be updated or is it $3,000 - $6,000 upgrade every time a new graphics card is released?
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables.
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
Some people just don't want things to move forward. Maybe he was also one of those people who wanted Flash support on iOS?
These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.
how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .
but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:
” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”
It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
What an absolutely insane post. "Incapable POS"? Wow. You REALLY fucking expected them to go back and add ancient ports that they discontinued like 4 YEARS ago?! I'd love to know what you actually DO, to require this "massive shitpile" of adapters. TB3/USB are the most flexible, robust, powerful, and fastest ports in existence. It makes zero sense to add additional, single purpose ports that many people will never touch, and that will only add internal complexity, points of failure, weight, etc. Ethernet- really?! That's thicker than the computer itself. And not sure you've noticed, but most laptops with ethernet ports are sub $300 pieces of trash. Coincidence? So how many ports would be sufficient for you? Because obviously they can never add enough to fullfill every single use case and need. 3 more types? 5? 10?
Your backwards facing thinking is quite impressive. And your expectation that this machine would go back to add old ports Apple discontinued years ago is pretty insane, irrational, and hard to believe. Blows my mind that following Apple this long, you would actually expect that. Thank God people like you have nothing to do with decision making in the company, or we'd still be stuck with serial ports and optical drives.
I couldn't figure out if he was serious or not. Heck, my 2017 MBP (3+ years old) "only" has 4 TB3 ports so it's been a few years. Normally, SpamSandwich is one of the more well-rounded members here and I was really surprised about his rant. To think after all these years, folks like him are still clamoring for old/obsolete tech. There are so many options out there to quell the vocal minority, yet some think that Apple should accommodate it? Ridiculous.
I'm going to make as assumption that someone must have ruined his coffee order this morning. It's so odd coming from him.
Comments
MagSafe
Firewire 400
Firewire 800
Ethernet
USB-A
DVI
Mini-DVI
Mini DisplayPort/Thunderbolt 1/2
USB-C/Thunderbolt 3
ExpressCard
SD Card
1/8” TRS (audio in/out)
I may have missed a couple as well...
USB-C is standardizing on the form-factor of multiple protocol and connection types. It makes it easier for manufacturing and device chassis and chip design.
I think for the majority of users they expect to upgrade cables or dongles on a new purchase.
As we can't escape sales tax in the EU, we end up paying it and price is a barrier for many people and even for those that can avoid it, it is still expensive.
That isn't a criticism, though, just an observation.
I hope the key changes to this machine cascade down the line quickly.
Hmm, that's odd. I haven't spent a fucking dollar on adapters, yet I make 100% of my living using my MBP and do everything from design work, to coding, to video editing, print layout, web development, etc.
But no you're right, you just made me realize that the machine is 100% useless. Time to go out and buy "$100+ dollars of adapters" to make it "useful".
I honestly don't know if some of you are genuine trolls, or that disconnected from the real world.
Your backwards facing thinking is quite impressive. And your expectation that this machine would go back to add old ports Apple discontinued years ago is pretty insane, irrational, and hard to believe. Blows my mind that following Apple this long, you would actually expect that. Thank God people like you have nothing to do with decision making in the company, or we'd still be stuck with serial ports and optical drives.
I'm saddled with a cheap Lenovo Win machine at work, it has all those ports SpamSandy is complaining about.
But you know what, I also have a breakout box that replicates all that, but connects via a single USB-C cable. So at the end of the day, instead of unplugging SEVEN cables to take my laptop home, I just unplug ONE.
If all those legacy connections are so mission critical, chances are you're not leveraging the primary use case for a laptop anyway (portability).
It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI. That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
I have a few dongles for Ethernet, VGA, Firewire but they don't get much love these days.
The 15" MBP always had 4 Thunderbolt ports. So does the 13".
Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?