Apple potential target of proposed bill that would limit flow of data to China

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U.S. Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) on Monday introduced a bill that aims to protect American interests by prohibiting companies from transferring user data or encryption keys to China, legislation that could impact Apple's Chinese business strategy.

iCloud


Hawley's National Security and Personal Data Protection Act "cuts off the flow" of sensitive data to China and other countries that pose a threat to national security, as well as the security of individual Americans, according to a one-page summary (PDF link) of the bill.

"As revealed last week, China could use images of our servicemen and women' obtained from sites like TikTok to train its autonomous weapons," the release reads. "U.S. officials currently are assessing TikTok for national security reasons. China also could build or steal massive profiles on Americans. And China could use aggregate location data from phones to identify bridges or roads to target for sabotage."

Language in the overview released today appears to take issue with app makers and other entities that store user data on servers operated on Chinese soil, a consideration granted in exchange for entrance into the Asian market, Hawley says. A second function of the legislation forbids the transfer of encryption keys, a stipulation that would threaten cloud services like Apple's iCloud business.

Specifically, the bill prohibits "American companies from transferring user data or encryption keys to China and other countries that similarly threaten America's national security" and likewise bans offsite storage of data in those same regions.

Hawley's bill applies many of those same data management regulations to Chinese companies operating in the U.S., while adding concessions for excessive data collection. A third stipulation conditions the merger or sale of American companies to Chinese entities on prior approval from the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS).

Whether Hawley's proposed legislation would impact Apple's Chinese operation is unclear. The company currently operates iCloud services in China, but data stored on Chinese servers is solely that of Chinese citizens.

To conform to Chinese cybersecurity laws, Apple in 2018 migrated iCloud encryption keys to Chinese servers run by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data Industry Co. Ltd.

Apple says it maintains sole control over Chinese iCloud encryption keys and claims the solution contains no government backdoors. Critics, however, note Apple might be forced to hand over the keys at any time through an official warrant system underpinned by a regime-friendly judicial process.

Though Apple was not named in the brief released today, Hawley has in the past associated the tech giant with TikTok, saying both flout U.S. security interests as they pander to China's massive commercial market.

Earlier this month, Hawley, an outspoken critic of Big Tech, called Apple, TikTok and others to a congressional hearing on China's supposed influence on the U.S. tech industry and how that relationship impacts consumer data. Both companies declined to participate. In June, the senator sent a letter to CEO Tim Cook asking for additional "Do Not Track" privacy options in iOS.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    I am from Missouri originally. I still have a lot of friends and family and people I went to school with an engineer in university inRolla, where there is a highly respected computer science department.
    Josh Hawley is not educated on such things, treats other countries as enemies when they are our friends, does not realize the value of global scale economies, and is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to these topics.  
    China is a great and powerful nation, with thousands of years of culture, hard-working people, brilliant people, massive resources and relationships with other countries all around the world. Why do we want to strain that and isolate ourselves from the largest market on earth?
    philboogie
  • Reply 2 of 22
    I guess that the ban would stop anyone with an iPhone, MacBook etc from taking them to China even as a tourist. After all, there are keys held on the device.
    Politicians the world over really do need to be aware of the laws of unintended consequences before trying to pass a law or impliment a government order.
  • Reply 3 of 22
    ivanhivanh Posts: 597member
    tstump said:
    I am from Missouri originally. I still have a lot of friends and family and people I went to school with an engineer in university inRolla, where there is a highly respected computer science department.
    Josh Hawley is not educated on such things, treats other countries as enemies when they are our friends, does not realize the value of global scale economies, and is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to these topics.  
    China is a great and powerful nation, with thousands of years of culture, hard-working people, brilliant people, massive resources and relationships with other countries all around the world. Why do we want to strain that and isolate ourselves from the largest market on earth?
     China is a great and powerful nation”, yes, but you forgot (or intentionally hid) to mention the Communist Party of China (CPC).  While no politician is an expert of everything, Josh Hawley is doing a good job. All nations with people love democracy should do the same thing.
    elijahgtmaycat52
  • Reply 4 of 22
    This Anti-China hysteria is hitting ridiculous proportions. Very soon every US citizen of Chinese descent would be suspected of working for the interest of the Chinese Communist Party. Maybe it's time to dust off those WWII Japanese American Internment camps, this time put Chinese in them. And No Tik Tok in the camps.
  • Reply 5 of 22
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,973member
    These things swing both ways. The U.S will be trying to do exactly same. As will everybody else.

    Once we have the technology, we will try to use it.

    While legislation is necessary, it will definitely not have any impact on the situation 'on the ground'. Governments will simply try to access the information anyway. Any way they can and wherever it is.

    The digital age means data collection and mining. Sprinkle in some AI and a bit of quantum computing and you have a fair amount of digital power at your disposal and yes, it can be 'weaponised' to a point but that will be the goal of all governments with access to the technology.

    I didn't understand the reference to bridges and sabotage. Since bridges have existed they have been the target of sabotage and destruction, just like with all infrastructure and key installations. That's why the Bailey Bridge was successful in the 40s. 
  • Reply 6 of 22
    avon b7 said:
    These things swing both ways. The U.S will be trying to do exactly same. As will everybody else.
    Don't be naive and think that the Chinese communist party is playing by the same (humanitarian) rules as everyone else; so there's still a difference in who's getting what data.
    tmaycat52
  • Reply 7 of 22
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,973member
    svanstrom said:
    avon b7 said:
    These things swing both ways. The U.S will be trying to do exactly same. As will everybody else.
    Don't be naive and think that the Chinese communist party is playing by the same (humanitarian) rules as everyone else; so there's still a difference in who's getting what data.
    I think I'm as far from naive as you could get.

    If there is ever a conflict at superpower level, you can kiss 'humanitarian' rules goodbye and I mean on all sides.
    spice-boyelijahgrazorpit
  • Reply 8 of 22
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,603member

    Whether Hawley's proposed legislation would impact Apple's Chinese operation is unclear. The company currently operates iCloud services in China, but data stored on Chinese servers is solely that of Chinese citizens.

    To conform to Chinese cybersecurity laws, Apple in 2018 migrated iCloud encryption keys to Chinese servers run by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data Industry Co. Ltd.

    Minor quibble: Apple no longer operates iCloud in China. It is wholly owned by Chinese interests, tho Apple retains all intellectual property rights pertaining to the software itself and has the same rights as GCBD to access user data. 
    edited November 2019 philboogie
  • Reply 9 of 22
    tstump said:
    I am from Missouri originally. I still have a lot of friends and family and people I went to school with an engineer in university inRolla, where there is a highly respected computer science department.
    Josh Hawley is not educated on such things, treats other countries as enemies when they are our friends, does not realize the value of global scale economies, and is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to these topics.  
    China is a great and powerful nation, with thousands of years of culture, hard-working people, brilliant people, massive resources and relationships with other countries all around the world. Why do we want to strain that and isolate ourselves from the largest market on earth?
    Although it looks like Hawley has gone off the deep end, China’s government should never be underestimated.
    razorpittmaysvanstrom
  • Reply 10 of 22
    How is that even a concern for his constituents? Talk about a paranoid, clueless knuckle dragging mouth breather. 
  • Reply 11 of 22
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    tstump said:
    I am from Missouri originally. I still have a lot of friends and family and people I went to school with an engineer in university inRolla, where there is a highly respected computer science department.
    Josh Hawley is not educated on such things, treats other countries as enemies when they are our friends, does not realize the value of global scale economies, and is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to these topics.  
    China is a great and powerful nation, with thousands of years of culture, hard-working people, brilliant people, massive resources and relationships with other countries all around the world. Why do we want to strain that and isolate ourselves from the largest market on earth?
    I agree with most of what you say however you forgot to mention a one party government run by a "president for life". 
    razorpittmaysvanstrom
  • Reply 12 of 22
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member

    How is that even a concern for his constituents? Talk about a paranoid, clueless knuckle dragging mouth breather. 
    This first part of your statement was a fair question however when you ended it with insults it lost validity. 
  • Reply 13 of 22
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    Chinese Government = Facebook
    lostkiwicat52
  • Reply 14 of 22
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    I didn't understand the reference to bridges and sabotage. Since bridges have existed they have been the target of sabotage and destruction, just like with all infrastructure and key installations. That's why the Bailey Bridge was successful in the 40s. 
    Bailey Bridge;

    Bailey bridge is a type of portable, pre-fabricated, truss bridge. It was developed in 1940-1941 by the British for military use during the Second World War and saw extensive use by British, Canadian and US military engineering units.

    A number of scenes in the film "A Bridge Too Far" show Bailey Bridge(s) being assembled.
  • Reply 15 of 22
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    I guess that the ban would stop anyone with an iPhone, MacBook etc from taking them to China even as a tourist. After all, there are keys held on the device.
    Politicians the world over really do need to be aware of the laws of unintended consequences before trying to pass a law or impliment a government order.
    It is staggering how ignorant of anything science related so many of them are, especially in a certain party.
    6502
  • Reply 16 of 22
    It would be entirely fine with me if the US government were to take a strong stand on this issue.
    beeble42cat52svanstrom
  • Reply 17 of 22
    65026502 Posts: 382member
    tstump said:
    I am from Missouri originally. I still have a lot of friends and family and people I went to school with an engineer in university inRolla, where there is a highly respected computer science department.
    Josh Hawley is not educated on such things, treats other countries as enemies when they are our friends, does not realize the value of global scale economies, and is simply not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to these topics.  
    China is a great and powerful nation, with thousands of years of culture, hard-working people, brilliant people, massive resources and relationships with other countries all around the world. Why do we want to strain that and isolate ourselves from the largest market on earth?
    Everything you said is wrong. China is not our friend. China will lie, cheat and steal their way to power. They have militarize the entire south china sea, they have stolen our military secrets to advance theirs, they have stolen our technologies to advance theirs. We allowed all this to happen to please wall street so we can save a few dollars on manufacturing costs with grave consequences. Getting ahead by any way possible, legal or illegal, moral or immoral, is ingrained in their soul. Their goal is to overtake the US economically and militarily by the 100th anniversary of the communist takeover. They are not the largest market on earth (we are) as they import very little and are mainly an exporting nation. They manipulate their currency to keep it low to maintain this.

    I work for a small (< $1B market cap) company that had all our technology stolen by a chinese firm (that one of our former coworkers worked for and assisted in stealing our technology). We sued them and won, but only because they had a US subsidiary; if they were china only there would have been nothing we could have done.

    I just can't believe Americans would rather see china destroy us than have to agree with a conservative. Truly mind boggling.
    tmaybeeble42lostkiwicat52svanstrom
  • Reply 18 of 22
    65026502 Posts: 382member
    It would be entirely fine with me if the US government were to take a strong stand on this issue.
    Agreed.
    cat52
  • Reply 19 of 22
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,327member
    Josh Hawley and other government officials (elected and otherwise) need to first get their own house in order before going after American businesses.

    https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/261313-ig-chinese-hackers-hit-interior-department-in-2013

    Their incompetence represent more of a threat to Americans’ data than Apple.
  • Reply 20 of 22
    I doubt Apple and maybe other companies really like storing data in China. As a stockholder, I don’t like it either. Yet this bill could give them a way out. Apple and other companies can tell China, “Sorry, no choice, we have to follow American law.” The bill can also be a disaster. How would China react to all these companies saying that to them? Tell them to all leave? Very possible, I don’t know. Chinese culture is really big on “face,” but the government would have a hard time telling their people they can’t have Apple or Nike or other U.S. products anymore. Interesting how this scenario would work out.
    svanstrom
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