Editorial: Pro Display XDR and Apple's Grand Stand

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 119
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,048member
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    StrangeDaysBombdoefastasleeplkruppPezawatto_cobrapscooter63chabig
  • Reply 42 of 119
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,117member
    Not sure I’ll ever change my opinion that $1000 for a hunk of aluminum is reasonable. It’s no worse, however, than a $55 piece of rubber that we buy from Apple to protect our phones that likely costs less than a buck to make. 
    Obviously either you didn’t understand what was said, or you chose to ignore it, and the same thing can be said for those who voted you up,

    RED prices a couple of fairly simple aluminum handles for one of its cameras at $600. Their SD cards cost hundreds to thousands.

    pro monitors cost tens of thousands, and many don’t even have a stand, they need to be rail mounted, or are on the edit bay table.

    its idiotic to think that a $55 case costs a buck to make. A good profit, sure, just like every other case maker gets. But no where near that wild.

    and fortunately, it doesn’t really matter what your opinion is since the likelihood that you would ever need pro gear like this is almost nonexistent. How do I know? By your complaint. If you did need it, you’d understand the pricing. But you don’t.
    StrangeDaysfastasleepmacplusplusJinTechwatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 43 of 119
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,117member

    bigtds said:
    You can spin it any way you want, but $1000 monitor stand is still a joke.
    For people like you whose opinion is a joke. It’s easy to criticize, it’s a lot harder to understand.
    JWSCStrangeDaysFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrapscooter63chabig
  • Reply 44 of 119
    anome said:
    I'll say it again.... I have been told by someone in the know (has had one for 6 months now) that the display comes with a stand included in the box. Just not the Pro stand.

    And holy cow! I bought a little quick-release setup for my Red camera for $1500... a 480GB SSD rehoused in a RED enclosure is still $1450... For professional work, this is not that expensive. Especially if you see that a color correct monitor has usually been at least 3 times the price of the Pro monitor and Pro stand!

    They will sell thousands of them if not tens of thousands. But not millions of them.
    Thanks for confirming that. I recall hearing something about it at the announcement, but no-one ever seems to mention that you don't actually need to buy the Pro stand, the display comes with a basic stand in the box. A lot of the complaints I have heard about the display are along the lines of "You pay US$5000 and you don't even get a stand." or "You need to spend US$1000 extra to use it."

    Even if it doesn't come with a basic, non adjustable stand, there will be other options, but as I understand it, and studiomusic has confirmed, your US$5000 monitor does come with a free stand. Now, I fully expect to hear complaints that the free stand is cheap, or basic, or isn't height adjustable, or whatever else they can complain about, but these people were never going to be happy anyway.
    Yes, but AI had to ask Apple about it at the event, and IIRC it took a while to get a clear answer. By then the ridiculous idea that Apple would ship a display without a stand in the box had taken hold. I wish Dan had also addressed this aspect of the stand hysteria in this article. In some ways, it’s the most bizarre aspect of the whole brouhaha.

    Apple did screw up in the presentation — it should have been made clear that there would be a regular stand in the box. It wasn’t.
    edited November 2019 dysamoriawatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    sacto joe said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    Oh, cry me a river. We paid the equivalent of a Mac Pro plus Pro Display plus $1 K stand in 1984 for the original Mac plus and dot matrix printer ($3K). Tiny screen and two programs, MacWrite and MacPaint. And we barely cleared the credit line our incomes were so low.

    Best Investment Ever.
    I’m pretty tired of this false comparison. Other people have already pointed out why this is flawed logic, yet it keeps persisting. There’s so much special pleading offered up for Apple’s bizarre marketing choice with THIS round of product branded “Mac Pro”.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 46 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    No, the iMac Pro does NOT work for me. It’s a stupidly compact machine AND an all-in-one. Why do we keep having to explain why this is entirely unacceptable for constant heavy and hot workloads??

    The Mac Pro is a tool. The ONLY way your Ferrari straw man makes ANY sense is if you see the Mac Pro as a luxury status object instead of a TOOL. At that point, there’s just so much wrongness in your worldview. 
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 47 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    anome said:
    I'll say it again.... I have been told by someone in the know (has had one for 6 months now) that the display comes with a stand included in the box. Just not the Pro stand.

    And holy cow! I bought a little quick-release setup for my Red camera for $1500... a 480GB SSD rehoused in a RED enclosure is still $1450... For professional work, this is not that expensive. Especially if you see that a color correct monitor has usually been at least 3 times the price of the Pro monitor and Pro stand!

    They will sell thousands of them if not tens of thousands. But not millions of them.
    Thanks for confirming that. I recall hearing something about it at the announcement, but no-one ever seems to mention that you don't actually need to buy the Pro stand, the display comes with a basic stand in the box. A lot of the complaints I have heard about the display are along the lines of "You pay US$5000 and you don't even get a stand." or "You need to spend US$1000 extra to use it."

    Even if it doesn't come with a basic, non adjustable stand, there will be other options, but as I understand it, and studiomusic has confirmed, your US$5000 monitor does come with a free stand. Now, I fully expect to hear complaints that the free stand is cheap, or basic, or isn't height adjustable, or whatever else they can complain about, but these people were never going to be happy anyway.
    Yes, but AI had to ask Apple about it at the event, and IIRC it took a while to get a clear answer. By then the idea that Apple would ship a display without a stand in the box had taken hold. I wish Dan had also addressed this aspect of the stand hysteria in this article. In some ways, it’s the most bizarre aspect of the whole brouhaha.

    Apple did screw up in the presentation — it should have been made clear that there would be a regular stand in the box. It wasn’t.
    It still isn’t. 
  • Reply 49 of 119
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,117member

    davgreg said:
    The stand is a nice bit of engineering but in no way is worth $1000. In the end it is a monitor stand.

    Comparing a handful of machined aluminum parts to a complex pro grade, multi-element lens is also a bit of a stretch. For a while I worked as a Pro photographer (pre-digital) and understand what is involved in high quality lenses.

    Now, if you are someone who can write off the stand on your taxes it probably is just something you will complain about and then buy. However, there is a significant market for people who want a high quality display but have no desire to be robbed of $1000 just because it was "designed by Apple in California".

    This fashion mentality where $20 Levi 501s made in America become designer "jeans" that cost hundreds of Dollars has infected Apple. Charging high prices just because you can evokes the kind of rapacious pricing of medical equipment where a simple lamp is intentionally put on a proprietary mount and priced 10-100x more than a similar lamp with a standard mount. It may be legal but it is not good business.

    I am planning on ordering a Mac Pro when it becomes available but will not be buying the display. I simply have better uses for the money.
    Maybe your knowledge of mechanical design and manufacturing isn’t what you think it is? Why are people who have no experience designing things seem to be so willing to give their knowledge-free opinion on things, rather than asking why something costs what it does?
    StrangeDaysfastasleepJWSCDan_Dilgerwatto_cobrapscooter63chabig
  • Reply 50 of 119
    dysamoria said:
    anome said:
    I'll say it again.... I have been told by someone in the know (has had one for 6 months now) that the display comes with a stand included in the box. Just not the Pro stand.

    And holy cow! I bought a little quick-release setup for my Red camera for $1500... a 480GB SSD rehoused in a RED enclosure is still $1450... For professional work, this is not that expensive. Especially if you see that a color correct monitor has usually been at least 3 times the price of the Pro monitor and Pro stand!

    They will sell thousands of them if not tens of thousands. But not millions of them.
    Thanks for confirming that. I recall hearing something about it at the announcement, but no-one ever seems to mention that you don't actually need to buy the Pro stand, the display comes with a basic stand in the box. A lot of the complaints I have heard about the display are along the lines of "You pay US$5000 and you don't even get a stand." or "You need to spend US$1000 extra to use it."

    Even if it doesn't come with a basic, non adjustable stand, there will be other options, but as I understand it, and studiomusic has confirmed, your US$5000 monitor does come with a free stand.
    I’ve heard it too, but it’s basically at rumor level. This still has not been confirmed by Apple, has it?
    I think if you look at the original threads, you’ll find Mike or someone else from AI in attendance was able to confirm from Apple that it would come with a regular stand. No details about the stand, only the fact of its existence. 

    I think it’s likely Apple made no official pronouncement about it because the packaging and included stand was not yet finalized at the time and they wanted to keep their options open. And they wanted the focus to be on the high-end stand. 

    EDIT: To add that I think it was a mistake, and a very typical sort of Apple mistake — they tend to get caught up in showing off the luxury aspects of their products and lose sight of very basic questions that people need answered.
    edited November 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 119
    dysamoria said:

    lkrupp said:

    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    If that last line describes you then too bad. That last line perfectly describes the crowd that lives here in the AppleInsider forums. That crowd needs to be called out on a regular basis and Dilger is more than capable of doing that. That his editorials trigger these types into rage is proof of their veracity.
    Actually, it’s the bitter and defensive Apple bootlickers here like yourself who make the most noise here on THIS forum. Every article is followed by some kind of libertarian and/or pro-Apple defensiveness and hostility toward anyone who dares trying to be objectively critical of Apple. Even DED acknowledged that Apple should not be free of criticism.
    Don’t look now but you’ve devolved into the arena of false ad hominem arguments signaling that you really have nothing useful to add to the discussion. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 119
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,048member
    dysamoria said:
    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    No, the iMac Pro does NOT work for me. It’s a stupidly compact machine AND an all-in-one. Why do we keep having to explain why this is entirely unacceptable for constant heavy and hot workloads??

    The Mac Pro is a tool. The ONLY way your Ferrari straw man makes ANY sense is if you see the Mac Pro as a luxury status object instead of a TOOL. At that point, there’s just so much wrongness in your worldview. 
    So the iMac Pro is “stupidly compact,” even though companies like Pixar use banks of them and never have a need to upgrade for the life of the product.  Interesting logic.  Why do we have a need to keep repeating this basic fact over and over again to you?
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 119
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    I think they are bad people.
  • Reply 54 of 119
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
    melgross said:

    bigtds said:
    You can spin it any way you want, but $1000 monitor stand is still a joke.
    For people like you whose opinion is a joke. It’s easy to criticize, it’s a lot harder to understand.
    Think about it. Your statement easily applies to you and many others on this site. 
  • Reply 55 of 119
    dysamoria said:
    sacto joe said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    Oh, cry me a river. We paid the equivalent of a Mac Pro plus Pro Display plus $1 K stand in 1984 for the original Mac plus and dot matrix printer ($3K). Tiny screen and two programs, MacWrite and MacPaint. And we barely cleared the credit line our incomes were so low.

    Best Investment Ever.
    I’m pretty tired of this false comparison. Other people have already pointed out why this is flawed logic, yet it keeps persisting. There’s so much special pleading offered up for Apple’s bizarre marketing choice with THIS round of product branded “Mac Pro”.
    And yet - you don’t say how the logic is flawed....
    watto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 56 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Wgkrueger said:
    dysamoria said:

    lkrupp said:

    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    If that last line describes you then too bad. That last line perfectly describes the crowd that lives here in the AppleInsider forums. That crowd needs to be called out on a regular basis and Dilger is more than capable of doing that. That his editorials trigger these types into rage is proof of their veracity.
    Actually, it’s the bitter and defensive Apple bootlickers here like yourself who make the most noise here on THIS forum. Every article is followed by some kind of libertarian and/or pro-Apple defensiveness and hostility toward anyone who dares trying to be objectively critical of Apple. Even DED acknowledged that Apple should not be free of criticism.
    Don’t look now but you’ve devolved into the arena of false ad hominem arguments signaling that you really have nothing useful to add to the discussion. 
    You’re correct; I went to name-calling. Driven there by the people who start the conversation off on exactly that footing. It can’t possibly go anywhere good when certain people are not censured for repeatedly demonstrating the same behavior others of us are censured for occasionally slipping into.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 57 of 119
    dysamoria said:

    lkrupp said:

    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    If that last line describes you then too bad. That last line perfectly describes the crowd that lives here in the AppleInsider forums. That crowd needs to be called out on a regular basis and Dilger is more than capable of doing that. That his editorials trigger these types into rage is proof of their veracity.
    Actually, it’s the bitter and defensive Apple bootlickers here like yourself who make the most noise here on THIS forum. Every article is followed by some kind of libertarian and/or pro-Apple defensiveness and hostility toward anyone who dares trying to be objectively critical of Apple. Even DED acknowledged that Apple should not be free of criticism.
    So are the sycophants admitting then that these articles are just trolling, just to trigger certain responses. It seems weird to me how defense some people are of a company they claim is so superior to its competitors.  To me it just feels like projection.
    It's not "defensive" to point out when people are being stupid. DED's editorial columns cover that -- when other popular media outlets (and analysts) are being stupid. 

    For some reason this always seems to upset you. And yet...still you read. lol
    fastasleepwatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 58 of 119
    dysamoria said:
    Wgkrueger said:
    dysamoria said:

    lkrupp said:

    sarrica said:
    The last line ad hominem wasn't needed and undermines the rest of the article.
    If that last line describes you then too bad. That last line perfectly describes the crowd that lives here in the AppleInsider forums. That crowd needs to be called out on a regular basis and Dilger is more than capable of doing that. That his editorials trigger these types into rage is proof of their veracity.
    Actually, it’s the bitter and defensive Apple bootlickers here like yourself who make the most noise here on THIS forum. Every article is followed by some kind of libertarian and/or pro-Apple defensiveness and hostility toward anyone who dares trying to be objectively critical of Apple. Even DED acknowledged that Apple should not be free of criticism.
    Don’t look now but you’ve devolved into the arena of false ad hominem arguments signaling that you really have nothing useful to add to the discussion. 
    You’re correct; I went to name-calling. Driven there by the people who start the conversation off on exactly that footing. It can’t possibly go anywhere good when certain people are not censured for repeatedly demonstrating the same behavior others of us are censured for occasionally slipping into.
    ”The Devil made me do it!”

    Own your mistakes, dude.
    StrangeDaysfastasleepJWSCwatto_cobrarundhvid
  • Reply 59 of 119
    bigtds said:
    bigtds said:
    You can spin it any way you want, but $1000 monitor stand is still a joke.
    Nope. I paid about a quarter of that for my VESA arm. It is not well engineered, wobbles, etc. 

    Just face it -- you have little understanding of the value of these tools for the people who use them.
    Just face it, you'd buy a steaming pile of crap if it had an apple logo on it.
    What a fucking stupid thing to say. What are you, ten? Get a job, son.
    fastasleepJWSCdysamoriawatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 60 of 119

    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    JWSC said:
    dysamoria said:
    neilm said:
    I don't know that there was any need to reopen and reargue the whole Pro Stand issue, much less in 1,955 words. But this article is nonetheless completely on point: the stand is an elaborately engineered product, built in low volume for the professional market. (That Sony 4K rig shopping list provides a telling comparison.) Don't like it? Then don't buy it. 

    As usual with such things, the loudest voices of internet outrage are from people who aren't even remotely part of the target market.
    Many of us USED TO BE part of the target market. We were used to considering ourselves part of that target market, and we were waiting for Apple to resume selling effective product to us. We don’t know why Apple have decided we don’t matter to them any more. All we know is that Apple have placed their ONLY heavy-duty machine WAY out of our price range.
    So, the iMac Pro doesn’t work for you either?  Is every Apple product supposed to be targeting you as their sole market?  That’s original.

    Then I am pissed that Ferrari doesn’t make a car I can afford.  It’s outrageous!
    No, the iMac Pro does NOT work for me. It’s a stupidly compact machine AND an all-in-one. Why do we keep having to explain why this is entirely unacceptable for constant heavy and hot workloads??

    The Mac Pro is a tool. The ONLY way your Ferrari straw man makes ANY sense is if you see the Mac Pro as a luxury status object instead of a TOOL. At that point, there’s just so much wrongness in your worldview. 
    So the iMac Pro is “stupidly compact,” even though companies like Pixar use banks of them and never have a need to upgrade for the life of the product.  Interesting logic.  Why do we have a need to keep repeating this basic fact over and over again to you?
    I blocked this joker long ago, but on the all-in-one argument -- I'm a pro software dev and do not give a shit about it being AIO. AlO-awesome is still awesome. My last iMac lasted me 8 years, my new loaded one should do the same. By the time I need to replace it I won't mind getting a new monitor with it. There is no problem. 

    Except in whiner land.
    fastasleepJWSClkruppwatto_cobra
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