Meanwhile, I’m in the process of giving a little new life to my old 2007 Santa Rosa 15” MacBook Pro 2.2GHz. A cheap SSD, new battery and double the RAM (4GB from 2GB, LOL), running El Capitan, it’s chugging right along. I do miss some of the features of the newer MacOS, but I primarily use my ‘18 12.9” iPad Pro with Apple Magic Keyboard Folio and Apple Pencil as my daily driver. One of these days I’ll upgrade to a new MBP, and the new 16” has caught my eye.
The biggest letdown for the old MBP is the lack of working between iWork projects between that and my iPad Pro. iCloud website helps, but requires more effort.
16" MBP is much more portable than old 17". For argument, only thing to carry forward from 17" to 16" would have been good old mega safe power connector. All those ports look silly on 17". In my experience, only dongle needed useful is $7-$8 USB to type-c.
They perhaps look a bit silly from a form perspective, true, but extremely functional and useful in a work machine just the same. I have to carry dongles with me everywhere and they end up hanging off my MBP these days. Now that looks silly.
What on earth would you need dongles hanging off your Mac everywhere for?
Other people’s USB sticks, hdmi for projector, seem to be the two main requirements. I can’t expect the other person’s workplace have the right cable.
Yeah but you make it sound like you're walking around with that shit hanging off your Mac. Why not just get a single adapter with USB-A and HDMI and toss it in your pocket, or on your keychain, or in your bag? That's not silly, that's just preparing for work. Kinda like bringing your laptop charger or your car keys.
I have a 2011 17" Mac Book Pro, with a Quad-Core 2.4 GHz, 16GB of RAM, 2TB SSD,and I much prefer Thunderbolt(which can be Daisy-Chained, with FW800, AND USB
Ports for all of my peripherals without Dongles. Thunderbolt is very fast, has great Daisy-Chaining features, and my drives are fast, with either FW800, or Thunderbolt. I use
USB-A for cheap compatibility and low prices. USB-A is very ubiquitous, and I hate Dongles. I can change my SSD/HDD's at will, can change battery in 5 minutes,have
Ethernet, have Mag Safe, can burn and play DVD/CD's, Comcast's Top High Speed Internet provides 325 Mbps on Wi-Fi(Ethernet is even faster!), and the SSD has made a Big
Difference. The Express Card Slot allows me to do other connections, if I need to. With Netflix, Apple TV, Apple TV+, and Disney+, I'm very happy.
I don’t care about upgrading to Catalina, many Top Experts advise Users to avoid upgrading to it, right now anyway. I just need to do what I need to do, without a lot of Headaches, and I can still use 32-Bit Apps.
I have a 2011 17" Mac Book Pro, with a Quad-Core 2.4 GHz, 16GB of RAM, 2TB SSD,and I much prefer Thunderbolt(which can be Daisy-Chained, with FW800, AND USB
Ports for all of my peripherals without Dongles. Thunderbolt is very fast, has great Daisy-Chaining features, and my drives are fast, with either FW800, or Thunderbolt. I use
USB-A for cheap compatibility and low prices. USB-A is very ubiquitous, and I hate Dongles. I can change my SSD/HDD's at will, can change battery in 5 minutes,have
Ethernet, have Mag Safe, can burn and play DVD/CD's, Comcast's Top High Speed Internet provides 325 Mbps on Wi-Fi(Ethernet is even faster!), and the SSD has made a Big
Difference. The Express Card Slot allows me to do other connections, if I need to. With Netflix, Apple TV, Apple TV+, and Disney+, I'm very happy.
Thunderbolt 3 is four times as fast as your TB1 port. Your USB 2.0 ports are 10x slower and FW800 is about 6x slower than USB 3.0 USB-A ports on newer Macs.
I wouldn’t pay $3,600 for a new Mac Book Pro, to get the features that I would want, while giving up Mag Safe, Ethernet, and an expansion slot. Thunderbolt 1 is capable of 20Gbps, can support up to six Thunderbolt devices by Daisy chains, and a monitor can be connected directly or at the very end of the chain. One-Hundred foot Optical Thunderbolt cables are available for Thunderbolt 1, too. For Hard drives, SSD’s, and Monitors, and such, it’s great. When my 17” MBPro dies, then I’ll replace it with a new 16” model, and they’ll have refurbished ones by then, it certainly isn’t worth dumping a perfectly working 17” Mac to have my backups to complete quicker. I’m not that wasteful, like my Superb Plasma TV wont be replaced until it dies, since OLED’s have color shift, and Burn-in issues. Different Strokes for Different Folks, Apple has definitely improved the 16” Models, but they still aren’t completely listening and Hearing their Customers. Alex Lindsay said that he can’t use Macs for his most demanding work! Why, not? Apple ignored their Pro Customers for the longest, on Mac pro’s and Mac Book Pro’s. We didn’t demand thinner and thinner, we have the right to tell Apple what we need and want, and they can accommodate us, or risk losing us to other Makers. PC’s took a lot of Creatives from Apple, and they may not get them back! Why did they allow that? Apple recently admitted that they were paying too little attention to many of their customers.
I wouldn’t pay $3,600 for a new Mac Book Pro, to get the features that I would want, while giving up Mag Safe, Ethernet, and an expansion slot. Thunderbolt 1 is capable of 20Gbps, can support up to six Thunderbolt devices by Daisy chains, and a monitor can be connected directly or at the very end of the chain. One-Hundred foot Optical Thunderbolt cables are available for Thunderbolt 1, too. For Hard drives, SSD’s, and Monitors, and such, it’s great. When my 17” MBPro dies, then I’ll replace it with a new 16” model, and they’ll have refurbished ones by then, it certainly isn’t worth dumping a perfectly working 17” Mac to have my backups to complete quicker. I’m not that wasteful, like my Superb Plasma TV wont be replaced until it dies, since OLED’s have color shift, and Burn-in issues. Different Strokes for Different Folks, Apple has definitely improved the 16” Models, but they still aren’t completely listening and Hearing their Customers. Alex Lindsay said that he can’t use Macs for his most demanding work! Why, not? Apple ignored their Pro Customers for the longest, on Mac pro’s and Mac Book Pro’s. We didn’t demand thinner and thinner, we have the right to tell Apple what we need and want, and they can accommodate us, or risk losing us to other Makers. PC’s took a lot of Creatives from Apple, and they may not get them back! Why did they allow that? Apple recently admitted that they were paying too little attention to many of their customers.
Yes, TB1 is 10Gbps, in each direction. Most people use USB-A drives, and TB1 is much faster, and people seem to be perfectly happy with USB-A speeds for Backups and other normal connections, like Mice.
Yes, TB1 is 10Gbps, in each direction. Most people use USB-A drives, and TB1 is much faster, and people seem to be perfectly happy with USB-A speeds for Backups and other normal connections, like Mice.
The new 16” MacBook Pro is having problems with popping noises coming from the speakers, and ghosting images on the Screen! Lackluster Quality Control!
The new 16” MacBook Pro is having problems with popping noises coming from the speakers, and ghosting images on the Screen! Lackluster Quality Control!
The popping thing is software and will be fixed shortly. If you have a legit problem with the display, Apple will take care of it. You’re not buying one, so why do you care?
I have family members and Mac-loving friends that are considering getting new MacBook Pros, and they treasure and trust my advice. I’ve always been into electronics, Stereos, Computers, and TV’s, so I’m a go-to person for them, I don’t need to benefit from their choices, I don’t charge them, I’m patient with them, and they know that I won’t lie to them. I had transistor radios in the 1960’s, was one of the first in the family and neighborhood to have a top-notch Stereo system, was making good money at 18 years oils, so I had Top-Notch Color TV’s, Early Macs, iPods, Power Books, and iPhone on the first day in 2007, and was reading Stereo Review/High Fidelity/Popular Electronics/Creative Computing/Byte/Info World/etc... so, People call me to ask my opinions and advice on what to buy, and when to buy. They even ask me to go to the stores with them, or to help them order online, after I help them make a wise choice. Four of us have 17” Mac Book Pros, which they bought on my advice. They aren’t gonna pull the trigger on the new 16”, until I advise them to, and they see that I’m keeping mine. They also know that even as an Apple Shareholder, with many Apple devices, I’m not blindly loyal to Apple, and don’t agree with everything they do, and how they do it! You, Fastasleep, seem to spend a lot of time bashing others, if they don’t agree with every decision Apple makes, even though they are spending their own hard-earned money. Our decisions don’t have to align with anyone else’s. Apple has definitely realized that they were disregarding, confusing, frustrating, and not listening to the very customers that supported them, when they nearly went out of business! Thank God, they have just recently partially-corrected these mistakes. Most people didn’t believe that they would seriously upgrade the Mac Mini, redesign the Mac Pro, and bring back a Mac Book Pro that’s larger than the 15.4” model. I care because I love Apple products, love Computers overall, and you don’t know when or if I will buy a 16” model. I remember stating that I would replace my 17” model with a 16”, when the 17” dies. I do care about the environment, and don’t believe in wasting money. It’s like having a C6 Corvette, or a older Rolex, there is no need to buy a new one, just because it’s available, if yours is in great shape, and is paid for. Why do you Care?
Apple has definitely realized that they were disregarding, confusing, frustrating, and not listening to the very customers that supported them, when they nearly went out of business! Thank God, they have just recently partially-corrected these mistakes.
You mean in the 90’s? 🤔
Just saying, you’re telling people to hold onto unsupported old hardware with slow tech, which is fine I guess as long as they realize that’s what they have. I personally wouldn’t advise people to stick with 8+ year old tech that’s no longer supported by software updates or hardware repairs when they ask me about buying new Macs. But, you do you.
No, not the 1990’s. I know that you realize the Mac Mini was left for Dead, not being upgraded for years, and with no idea if it was going to be upgraded or discontinued. The 2013 “Trash Can” Mac Pro was also left for dead, had upgrade issues, was unwieldy because of the Dongles and external connections that had to made, Users were left in the Dark-with no Idea of whether it would be discontinued or upgraded, no updates to even your beloved USB-C, still charging Customers Full-Price for older CPU’s and hemorrhaging Customers to Windows and Linux-Boxes, and Businesses and Pros discouraged from making decisions to Stick with Apple or move on! Mac-Users stuck with their “Old Cheese Graters, and 17” Mac Book Pros, while they waited for Apple to listen to them, wake up, and re-do the Macs they paid Top-Dollar for, while they put up with the loss of Ports, loss of Connections, Bad Keyboards, loss of Mag-Safe protection, elimination of SD Card slots, loss of Escape Keys, and Expansion slots! Reports and Videos are everywhere, Right Now, about Pros that were reluctantly hanging on to their Cheese Graters, Trashcan Mac Pros, and Mac Book Pros with Good Keyboards and without the Dreaded Touch-Bars! I know you’ve seen it, and read it recently, and over the last 4 years. None of these issue are from the 1990’s, so I don’t know why you’re exaggerating, to keep from admitting you were wrong! You were one of the Main Ones on these Forums saying that Apple wouldn’t make a Laptop bigger than 15.4” again, and you most certainly didn’t predict that Apple would finally listen to the Mainstream Mac Pro Customers, and go back to the “Cheese Grater” design. I only mentioned Four people who were holding on to their 17” Mac Book Pros, many others reluctantly bought 15.4” or 13.3” Mac Book Pros, because they had to do something to stay in the Apple Eco-System, after being Shit on by Apple, or go to Windows, which they didn’t want to do. How is any of these developments from the 1990’s? This has been all in the last 12 months. Now, the iMac Pro is two years old, for the same prices, although it’s still fast, but it’s getting Gray Hair! Alex Lindsay said, on a recent Mac Break Weekly Podcast, that his recent Macs couldn’t accomplish his High-End Work, and he worked at Lucasfilm, Industrial Light and Magic on Star Wars, from Episode 1-The Phantom Menace and Titan A.E., along with being the Founder of Pixel Corps, dvGarage, and Rebel Unit. He definitely knows what he is talking about, even Teaching at the Academy of Art and at the SanFrancisco State Multimedia Studies Programs. Why should one of the Richest Companies on Earth leave their Customers in the Dark, and not upgrade their Top products for years? Money and resources certainly weren’t the issue. The Trashcan Mac Pro can’t even run OS Catalina! They can’t blame it all on Intel!
My mistake about the Trash Can Mac Pro being able to run Catalina, it can, but my Friends that held on to their 2010-2012 Mac pros, say that their earlier Mac Pros have 12-Core Processors that are faster than the 12-Core Trash Can Mac Pro, have higher capacities of Storage available, have faster SSD’s, have room for tons more storage space with room for two Optical Drives, Four 3.5” Hard drives, slots for multiple PCI Cards, and additional Power supplies, in one tidy Box! There is only one HDMI port on the Trashcan Mac, when Pros frequently have two or three Monitors! Anytime a Souped-Up Mac Mini can out-perform the Graphics in a Trash Can Mac Pro, you know that something is wrong.
No, not the 1990’s. I know that you realize the Mac Mini was left for Dead, not being upgraded for years, and with no idea if it was going to be upgraded or discontinued. The 2013 “Trash Can” Mac Pro was also left for dead, had upgrade issues, was unwieldy because of the Dongles and external connections that had to made, Users were left in the Dark-with no Idea of whether it would be discontinued or upgraded, no updates to even your beloved USB-C, still charging Customers Full-Price for older CPU’s and hemorrhaging Customers to Windows and Linux-Boxes, and Businesses and Pros discouraged from making decisions to Stick with Apple or move on! Mac-Users stuck with their “Old Cheese Graters, and 17” Mac Book Pros, while they waited for Apple to listen to them, wake up, and re-do the Macs they paid Top-Dollar for, while they put up with the loss of Ports, loss of Connections, Bad Keyboards, loss of Mag-Safe protection, elimination of SD Card slots, loss of Escape Keys, and Expansion slots! Reports and Videos are everywhere, Right Now, about Pros that were reluctantly hanging on to their Cheese Graters, Trashcan Mac Pros, and Mac Book Pros with Good Keyboards and without the Dreaded Touch-Bars! I know you’ve seen it, and read it recently, and over the last 4 years. None of these issue are from the 1990’s, so I don’t know why you’re exaggerating, to keep from admitting you were wrong! You were one of the Main Ones on these Forums saying that Apple wouldn’t make a Laptop bigger than 15.4” again, and you most certainly didn’t predict that Apple would finally listen to the Mainstream Mac Pro Customers, and go back to the “Cheese Grater” design. I only mentioned Four people who were holding on to their 17” Mac Book Pros, many others reluctantly bought 15.4” or 13.3” Mac Book Pros, because they had to do something to stay in the Apple Eco-System, after being Shit on by Apple, or go to Windows, which they didn’t want to do. How is any of these developments from the 1990’s? This has been all in the last 12 months. Now, the iMac Pro is two years old, for the same prices, although it’s still fast, but it’s getting Gray Hair! Alex Lindsay said, on a recent Mac Break Weekly Podcast, that his recent Macs couldn’t accomplish his High-End Work, and he worked at Lucasfilm, Industrial Light and Magic on Star Wars, from Episode 1-The Phantom Menace and Titan A.E., along with being the Founder of Pixel Corps, dvGarage, and Rebel Unit. He definitely knows what he is talking about, even Teaching at the Academy of Art and at the SanFrancisco State Multimedia Studies Programs. Why should one of the Richest Companies on Earth leave their Customers in the Dark, and not upgrade their Top products for years? Money and resources certainly weren’t the issue. The Trashcan Mac Pro can’t even run OS Catalina! They can’t blame it all on Intel!
I can barely read this with all the Random Capitalization For No Reason, but the 90's reference was you claiming Apple "nearly went out of business" — which has not been *anything* close to true since then. It's hard to take you seriously after that comment. I'm not going to bother with the rest of this nonsense.
I see that it’s difficult for you to admit that you’re wrong, and that others are entitled to their opinions and the right to spend their money as they choose. The Top Pros, across many fields, took Apple to task for how they were failing to update their products, changing design by putting Form over Function, and not addressing their needs. Apple admitted it, and asked the Pro and Consumer Users what they wanted, and Apple even broke with tradition by making some announcements and promises in advance to their customers. That’s a fact. The Top pros, and Writers also mentioned in Apple turned its back on the very people who were loyal to them, when they were on shaky ground financially! There has even been criticism of the obviously great Jony Ive, for the design-direction if the products! These aren’t just my opinions, anybody can find proof of what I am saying in ten seconds of research on Google or any Mac-related publication or website! You can make all of the snarky, disrespectful, comments that you can imagine, but anyone can see that the Top Experts and Writers agree with what I said, because I am really citing and repeating what has been widely-reported! I really don’t care what you say, or think about what I buy, or my opinions! You are just one person, like everyone else on these Forums, and believe it or not, we have the right to have and express our opinions, every bit as much as you! It’s irrelevant to me, whether you want to bother reading what I said. The things I said can all be verified from various sources.
I see that it’s difficult for you to admit that you’re wrong, and that others are entitled to their opinions and the right to spend their money as they choose. The Top Pros, across many fields, took Apple to task for how they were failing to update their products, changing design by putting Form over Function, and not addressing their needs. Apple admitted it, and asked the Pro and Consumer Users what they wanted, and Apple even broke with tradition by making some announcements and promises in advance to their customers. That’s a fact. The Top pros, and Writers also mentioned in Apple turned its back on the very people who were loyal to them, when they were on shaky ground financially! There has even been criticism of the obviously great Jony Ive, for the design-direction if the products! These aren’t just my opinions, anybody can find proof of what I am saying in ten seconds of research on Google or any Mac-related publication or website! You can make all of the snarky, disrespectful, comments that you can imagine, but anyone can see that the Top Experts and Writers agree with what I said, because I am really citing and repeating what has been widely-reported! I really don’t care what you say, or think about what I buy, or my opinions! You are just one person, like everyone else on these Forums, and believe it or not, we have the right to have and express our opinions, every bit as much as you! It’s irrelevant to me, whether you want to bother reading what I said. The things I said can all be verified from various sources.
I'm not wrong. Apple has not been anywhere close to going out of business since the 90's, that's a fact. Having some customers jump to Windows PCs has not devalued the company even looking at the Mac as you can plainly see from their earnings reports. You can't say with any honesty that they almost went out of business because they lost some users to PCs because it's *not true*.
There was so much there that I didn't want to dig in, but stuff like the iMac Pro being out of date — yes, you can blame that on Intel not having any chips to update that Mac yet. Probably next year, assuming they continue that line now the Mac Pro is out. It's still a beast. The Trashcan Mac Pro can most definitely run Catalina, not sure where you got that from but you're wrong: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210222 . A lot of the other stuff you brought up is anecdotal experience from *some people* and does not reflect the market as a whole. Many of us have never had a problem with newer Macs and have been chugging along doing professional work regardless of the opinions of others. Hyperbole like "The Dreaded Touch Bar" doesn't add anything here. I much prefer mine to the bespoke keys of yesteryear. Not everyone hates the keyboard, I love it personally. They fixed the keyboard and escape key issues in this model anyway. I don't miss most of the slow, legacy, bespoke ports that people pine over. Most people have just moved on, to their benefit.
At any rate, this all started because you're the one clinging to 8yo tech and bragging about slow ports, and I was correcting some of your stats and pointing out how much faster this Mac's ports are. I said enjoy your ports, and meant it. Meanwhile the "pros" you talk about are gonna buy this 16" MBP in droves and many in industries like Alex Lindsay's are going to buy the new Mac Pro for heavy lifting. Have fun with your old Mac! I'm gonna figure out how to potentially sell my 2018 MBP and get in on this 16" model, possibly at the next speed bump. You do you!
16" MBP is much more portable than old 17". For argument, only thing to carry forward from 17" to 16" would have been good old mega safe power connector. All those ports look silly on 17". In my experience, only dongle needed useful is $7-$8 USB to type-c.
They perhaps look a bit silly from a form perspective, true, but extremely functional and useful in a work machine just the same. I have to carry dongles with me everywhere and they end up hanging off my MBP these days. Now that looks silly.
Oh, that MagSafe port is beautiful. Eliminating that was a mistake in my book.
Totally agree - I got a magnetic USB C charging cable to try with my new MBP and it failed within a few months. I still miss the old MagSafe charging cable.
While the USB 2 port was anemic at 480 Mb/s you forgot about the 800 Mb/s FireWire port which was more often used.
True, the Thunderbolt port was only 10 Gb/s given the generation it was way ahead of its time!
You really have to evaluate the computer in context - The ports that were included reflected what was in use at the time. the USB 3 spec had only recently been released, wifi was not nearly as prevalent or as fast and physical ethernet connections were much more the norm making the ethernet jack much more practical/necessary than it is today.
Yeah, except back then people crying all the time how fragile their MagSafe connector was, where you could save your power adapter when the cable broke.
Magnetic connectors aren't magic, even barrel jack got alternatives.
Comments
The biggest letdown for the old MBP is the lack of working between iWork projects between that and my iPad Pro. iCloud website helps, but requires more effort.
Ports for all of my peripherals without Dongles. Thunderbolt is very fast, has great Daisy-Chaining features, and my drives are fast, with either FW800, or Thunderbolt. I use
USB-A for cheap compatibility and low prices. USB-A is very ubiquitous, and I hate Dongles. I can change my SSD/HDD's at will, can change battery in 5 minutes,have
Ethernet, have Mag Safe, can burn and play DVD/CD's, Comcast's Top High Speed Internet provides 325 Mbps on Wi-Fi(Ethernet is even faster!), and the SSD has made a Big
Difference. The Express Card Slot allows me to do other connections, if I need to. With Netflix, Apple TV, Apple TV+, and Disney+, I'm very happy.
Just saying, you’re telling people to hold onto unsupported old hardware with slow tech, which is fine I guess as long as they realize that’s what they have. I personally wouldn’t advise people to stick with 8+ year old tech that’s no longer supported by software updates or hardware repairs when they ask me about buying new Macs. But, you do you.
There was so much there that I didn't want to dig in, but stuff like the iMac Pro being out of date — yes, you can blame that on Intel not having any chips to update that Mac yet. Probably next year, assuming they continue that line now the Mac Pro is out. It's still a beast. The Trashcan Mac Pro can most definitely run Catalina, not sure where you got that from but you're wrong: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210222 . A lot of the other stuff you brought up is anecdotal experience from *some people* and does not reflect the market as a whole. Many of us have never had a problem with newer Macs and have been chugging along doing professional work regardless of the opinions of others. Hyperbole like "The Dreaded Touch Bar" doesn't add anything here. I much prefer mine to the bespoke keys of yesteryear. Not everyone hates the keyboard, I love it personally. They fixed the keyboard and escape key issues in this model anyway. I don't miss most of the slow, legacy, bespoke ports that people pine over. Most people have just moved on, to their benefit.
At any rate, this all started because you're the one clinging to 8yo tech and bragging about slow ports, and I was correcting some of your stats and pointing out how much faster this Mac's ports are. I said enjoy your ports, and meant it. Meanwhile the "pros" you talk about are gonna buy this 16" MBP in droves and many in industries like Alex Lindsay's are going to buy the new Mac Pro for heavy lifting. Have fun with your old Mac! I'm gonna figure out how to potentially sell my 2018 MBP and get in on this 16" model, possibly at the next speed bump. You do you!
Yeah, except back then people crying all the time how fragile their MagSafe connector was, where you could save your power adapter when the cable broke.
Magnetic connectors aren't magic, even barrel jack got alternatives.