I certainly have noticed the location services icon is on in iOS 13 even when nothing using it is open. This was not the case in any prior iOS version. A clear explanation of why this is happening is lacking from Apple. While I get that cell phones are trackable via cell etc that still does not excuse Apple adding tracking that cannot easily be turned off. Disabling location services is NOT a viable answer as it neuters many of the phones needed features.
It is not lacking from Apple... Read the article...
"We do not see any actual security implications," an Apple engineer said. "It is expected behavior that the Location Services icon appears in the status bar when Location Services is enabled. The icon appears for system services that do not have a switch in Settings."
Apple made a change so that now when those system services make use of location services it shows the icon... that was not the case in previous versions of the OS.
So if I kill all my apps and restart my phone and the icon shows up what service is using it? I’m not angry at Apple just want to know what’s changed and why.
Read “Location Services and Privacy” link in the location services menu. You can use deductive thinking to figure out what services mentioned in that document are enabled that don’t have a shut off switch.
My guess is that it is this:
“ For safety purposes, however, your iPhone’s location information may be used when you place an emergency call to aid response efforts regardless of whether you enable Location Services.”
This is listed in a separate paragraph than the Emergency/SOS calls section that has a shut off switch.
You know what bothers me even more...that iOS supports the ability for anyone to tap “ok” in any app and upload their entire address book (including all of my details) to the app’s servers. Didn’t one app dev describe it as the Wild West of data collection? What’s up with iOS allowing this? It’s the biggest privacy invasion in the industry. Apple needs to lead the way in nipping this in the bud. Should be technical impossibility for someone out of my control to give my contact card and all my possible contact connections with one tap on THEIR PHONE. This implies for me to not share my details with any app everyone I know must keep to the same strict privacy stance I keep for myself.
So if I kill all my apps and restart my phone and the icon shows up what service is using it? I’m not angry at Apple just want to know what’s changed and why.
To the best of my knowledge, it sets the clock.
It's a bit like when setting up an iPhone as new, and at the first couple of questions one doesn't okay the Location feature. After finishing setup, the clock is set to Pacific (or something), no matter in what timezone the iPhone actually is. I believe that the clock checks with GPS after a reboot. Of course, it can be other things as well...
I must say I’ve noticed the little arrow appear at the top of the screen a lot these days. I was suspecting iOS sending data, glad to see it confirmed, also not glad as it makes a complete mockery of privacy and security settings in iOS, and makes Apples ‘what’s on your iPhone stays on your iPhone’ advertising campaign seem incredibly hypocritical. I’ve noticed the gps arrow on my iPhone XR and iPad Pro.
Apple has recently proved it is no different, indeed in some cases worst, then Amazon or Google or even Facebook with data collection recently. And appears to only be offering solutions once caught red handed with its hand in the cookie jar!. It really should be the polar opposite. Particularly considering all the health information the company gathers on you if you wear an Apple Watch.
Perhaps as suggested, it would be far better for Apple to be completely upfront and honest about it’s data collecting and tracking features, in plain English and not buried in cleverly worded text in a multi page end user agreement. Change it’s wording. That way they won’t appear as the bad guys, and everyone knows where they stand. Location services are useful, just be up front with how they work.
I would think that if Apple wanted to secretly collect location data from the users of their iOS mobile devices, they would be able do it by not lighting up that little arrow and thus letting the users know that their iOS device was sending out data of some form. Unless you think that was just a bug in their software that secretly collects location data from iOS users devices.
I would also think that even if an iOS user denied location data to all their third party apps, the mobile device still needs to know where it is. Otherwise it wouldn't be a smartphone. If you make a call from your smartphone, the phone already knows where it is and immediately remembers the best tower to connect to, based on past connection data that is kept in the phone. Otherwise it would waste battery power searching for the best tower, every time you make a call or access the internet, after traveling a distance from the last time you used voice or data on that device.
And i remember how Apple once got in trouble for this connection data, that is kept in the phone. The data was suppose to only to be kept for 6 months back, but with one of the iOS's, a bug in the software kept the data on the iPone, for more than a year.
Yes the iPhone would need to know where it is for things like Find My iPhone I guess. But that’s perfectly fine, I think it’s the data collecting that is the issue and tracking by other apps that as described you turned the tracking off in. i think have the little arrow is good as it does highlight what your iPhone is doing. Although these days I just think what are you doing? And is this going to use too much of my battery up?
I must say I’ve noticed the little arrow appear at the top of the screen a lot these days. I was suspecting iOS sending data, glad to see it confirmed, also not glad as it makes a complete mockery of privacy and security settings in iOS, and makes Apples ‘what’s on your iPhone stays on your iPhone’ advertising campaign seem incredibly hypocritical. I’ve noticed the gps arrow on my iPhone XR and iPad Pro.
Apple has recently proved it is no different, indeed in some cases worst, then Amazon or Google or even Facebook with data collection recently. And appears to only be offering solutions once caught red handed with its hand in the cookie jar!. It really should be the polar opposite. Particularly considering all the health information the company gathers on you if you wear an Apple Watch.
Perhaps as suggested, it would be far better for Apple to be completely upfront and honest about it’s data collecting and tracking features, in plain English and not buried in cleverly worded text in a multi page end user agreement. Change it’s wording. That way they won’t appear as the bad guys, and everyone knows where they stand. Location services are useful, just be up front with how they work.
Insanely trollish, dishonest, laughable and sensational post.
Worse than Google and Facebook? What an incredibly horse-shit statement. Apple is still head and shoulders above every single major tech company when it comes to privacy and security. Secondly, try educating yourself before spouting non-sense. That arrow doesn't mean Apple is "collecting" your location. It means an app is using it. And to disable that, you just disable the app's location access.
Love how trolls are always chomping at the bit to make such grandoise "Apple is horrible" statements, which necessitate the spinning of lies and misinformation.
Apple apologist much?
Apple is good in security yes, but NOT on privacy, and it is a fact it IS worst with privacy as they did not inform their customers that third parties were listening to everything Siri recorded. And they did NOT give you any option to turn that feature off until they were caught red handed and smeared in main stream media for it! That is a fact. Both Amazon and Google have given you options to opt out of this tracking for a while and long before Apple although these have now been extensively improved, I use all products so I base that off my experience. What have you based your assumption on? Have you ever used an Echo or Google device? Apple and the apps on the store collect data as much as anyone else, don’t be so utterly naive. All those endless freemium apps you use constantly data mine you and you’d be surprised how much they can tell about you, that’s why it’s free.
Your one of these knee jerk reaction people that should realise Apple is not beyond criticism from people that buy and use their products. Don’t get so sucked in by an advertising campaign that’s purely designed to fool you and take your money. Sure by all means think Apple is better, I think they have the best security for instance, but don’t blindly defend them when they are caught doing dishonest things, unless you own Apple share of course, do you?
I must say I’ve noticed the little arrow appear at the top of the screen a lot these days. I was suspecting iOS sending data, glad to see it confirmed, also not glad as it makes a complete mockery of privacy and security settings in iOS, and makes Apples ‘what’s on your iPhone stays on your iPhone’ advertising campaign seem incredibly hypocritical. I’ve noticed the gps arrow on my iPhone XR and iPad Pro.
Apple has recently proved it is no different, indeed in some cases worst, then Amazon or Google or even Facebook with data collection recently. And appears to only be offering solutions once caught red handed with its hand in the cookie jar!. It really should be the polar opposite. Particularly considering all the health information the company gathers on you if you wear an Apple Watch.
Perhaps as suggested, it would be far better for Apple to be completely upfront and honest about it’s data collecting and tracking features, in plain English and not buried in cleverly worded text in a multi page end user agreement. Change it’s wording. That way they won’t appear as the bad guys, and everyone knows where they stand. Location services are useful, just be up front with how they work.
So there's a few things in this that don't quite add up, but I'll bite.
Perhaps you could articulate how Apple is "worse" than Amazon, Google or FaceBook with respect to data collection ? That is an extraordinary claim that warrants extraordinary evidence to support it (given Amazon, Google and Facebook are 3 of the world's largest collectors of personal information, and all of them actively generate income from the personal information they collect, and two of them own two of the largest data brokerages in the world)
Second the arrows don't mean Apple has collected ANY data about location at all. Words have meaning to lets get specific - if Apple "collects" data then its sent from your device to Apple centrally, and in a form Apple can decrypt or read - ie it leaves your device in some form, and Apple itself can do something with the data. eg A lot of the "Find My" service data passes through Apple servers, but Apple can't decrypt it, as its encrypted with asymmetric keys that only exist on a users devices. So its not "collection". How "Find my" works was explained in a talk by Apple at BlackHat 2019 this year.
If a process or App running on the device does something that is requests location-related information, that does not automatically mean that Apple "collected" it. Even if data is sent to Apple, it doesn't mean Apple can read it. Saying any process triggering an arrow in the UI constitutes collection of data is wrong from both a technical and legal perspective.
Thirdly, the way that location services work, is things like monitoring for iBeacon region entry/exit, or "awareness of what country am I in" will by definition access location information.
Fourthly the arrow may not have anything to do with GPS, and the AppleInsider commentary is wrong in framing things that way. Apple devices use GPS, GLONASS, Baidu, Galileo and QZSS satellite systems, but they also use cell towers, Bluetooth and Wi-fi network mapping. All of that underlying location stuff has different levels of accuracy, and some of it works indoors, some of it only outdoors. Software doesn't access almost any of that directly - a developer usually has to set up a Core Location Manager instance to get called back when the device knows the location to the requested accuracy. eg Apple knowing what set of transit directions to supply in Maps, only requires a resolution to the city level - typically 10's of km, and wouldn't generally be considered a sensitive level of location, but it would totally trigger an arrow.
Also - take a look at apple.com/privacy - that's where their privacy policy is, and its in plain English as well !
Now having said that, Apple does need to explain what's going on here, and their response to Krebs was pretty poor, but these kind of situations aren't binary: ie an organisation isn't intrinsically either perfect, or evil, with nothing in between.
Thank you for a sensibly written reply. Refreshing to see such a response. I perhaps should have made it more clear yes, in my personal experience using Amazon Echo devices and Google devices like the Shield TV and Google WiFi, I notice they have for a while offered you far more control and options as to what data they collect and use, this has been since day 1. I remember when I setup my Echo Dot a year ago it asked if it could record and collect the instructions I tell it. That’s why they are better. Apple has only offered these ‘opt out’ options since it was whistle blown and smeared in main stream media about allowing third parties to listen to everything Siri records, so certainly they may have buried its privacy stance deep in a few thousand words of T’s & C’s, but that’s simply not good enough for a company that runs an ad campaign belittling the privacy stance of the competition and proclaiming its own apparently superior privacy.
So when users start to notice the GPS system running when it’s been disabled for apps, then it’s another sign of mis-trust with Apple. I’m sure Apple Insider and the other sites like iMore will report the story accurately but they all stare the same thing.
For me it’s not the fact they do it, I mean unless you are totally ‘off grid’ and never touch the internet in any way shape or form, your data’s collected, it’s the fact Apple are extremely hypocritical in their approach to the situation and deceitful by not being up front with its customers. I do to an extent trust Apple with security, but I don’t with privacy, it’s the same or as I explained in my own experience, worst, then the competition with privacy. And when they collect an awful lot of health information as well that’s a little concerning because they are not being up front with their practices, so this along with their false advertising leaves a sour taste in the mouth.. It’s the same with the battery scandal, they are not up front and honest until caught red handed, then they make excuses.
And no I’m not about to jump ship to Android. I prefer the Apple quality.
So I agree with your last statement, but unfortunately it seems to be an increasing pattern with Apple, they need to perhaps hire a public relations expert who can help guide them in the right way to do things?
Comments
My guess is that it is this:
“ For safety purposes, however, your iPhone’s location information may be used when you place an emergency call to aid response efforts regardless of whether you enable Location Services.”
This is listed in a separate paragraph than the Emergency/SOS calls section that has a shut off switch.
It's a bit like when setting up an iPhone as new, and at the first couple of questions one doesn't okay the Location feature. After finishing setup, the clock is set to Pacific (or something), no matter in what timezone the iPhone actually is. I believe that the clock checks with GPS after a reboot. Of course, it can be other things as well...
i think have the little arrow is good as it does highlight what your iPhone is doing. Although these days I just think what are you doing? And is this going to use too much of my battery up?
Apple is good in security yes, but NOT on privacy, and it is a fact it IS worst with privacy as they did not inform their customers that third parties were listening to everything Siri recorded. And they did NOT give you any option to turn that feature off until they were caught red handed and smeared in main stream media for it! That is a fact.
Both Amazon and Google have given you options to opt out of this tracking for a while and long before Apple although these have now been extensively improved, I use all products so I base that off my experience.
What have you based your assumption on? Have you ever used an Echo or Google device? Apple and the apps on the store collect data as much as anyone else, don’t be so utterly naive. All those endless freemium apps you use constantly data mine you and you’d be surprised how much they can tell about you, that’s why it’s free.
Your one of these knee jerk reaction people that should realise Apple is not beyond criticism from people that buy and use their products. Don’t get so sucked in by an advertising campaign that’s purely designed to fool you and take your money. Sure by all means think Apple is better, I think they have the best security for instance, but don’t blindly defend them when they are caught doing dishonest things, unless you own Apple share of course, do you?
I perhaps should have made it more clear yes, in my personal experience using Amazon Echo devices and Google devices like the Shield TV and Google WiFi, I notice they have for a while offered you far more control and options as to what data they collect and use, this has been since day 1. I remember when I setup my Echo Dot a year ago it asked if it could record and collect the instructions I tell it. That’s why they are better.
Apple has only offered these ‘opt out’ options since it was whistle blown and smeared in main stream media about allowing third parties to listen to everything Siri records, so certainly they may have buried its privacy stance deep in a few thousand words of T’s & C’s, but that’s simply not good enough for a company that runs an ad campaign belittling the privacy stance of the competition and proclaiming its own apparently superior privacy.
So when users start to notice the GPS system running when it’s been disabled for apps, then it’s another sign of mis-trust with Apple. I’m sure Apple Insider and the other sites like iMore will report the story accurately but they all stare the same thing.
For me it’s not the fact they do it, I mean unless you are totally ‘off grid’ and never touch the internet in any way shape or form, your data’s collected, it’s the fact Apple are extremely hypocritical in their approach to the situation and deceitful by not being up front with its customers.
I do to an extent trust Apple with security, but I don’t with privacy, it’s the same or as I explained in my own experience, worst, then the competition with privacy. And when they collect an awful lot of health information as well that’s a little concerning because they are not being up front with their practices, so this along with their false advertising leaves a sour taste in the mouth..
It’s the same with the battery scandal, they are not up front and honest until caught red handed, then they make excuses.
And no I’m not about to jump ship to Android. I prefer the Apple quality.
So I agree with your last statement, but unfortunately it seems to be an increasing pattern with Apple, they need to perhaps hire a public relations expert who can help guide them in the right way to do things?