That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
Had UK police acted like U.S. police would have in the face of being fire bombed and attacked by protestors, not to mention their repetitive and massive civil disruption, property damage and attacks on innocent civilians, there would have been many hundreds of very dead protestors.
But, you seem stuck in the same kind of "Freedom & Democracy" chant by the far right that enabled them to invade Iraq war and begin decades of unending war. You and your far right need to start seeing reality instead of sitting in your echo chamber of propaganda.
,,,and then they held an election, and the pro-democracy movement won by a landslide. Would you like to explain to me how that would have happened if the protestors were so loathed by the people of Hong Kong, and oh, did I mention that the Extradition legislation was pulled?
You obviously did not read what I wrote. What I said was:
Had UK police acted like U.S. police would have in the face of
being fire bombed and attacked by protestors, not to mention their
repetitive and massive civil disruption, property damage and attacks on
innocent civilians, there would have been many hundreds of very dead
protestors.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
The fact they have been allowed to protest put the lie to your claim.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words.
There is fallacy in most -- even all -- of his words.
It's what happens when one starts with an agenda and backs into whichever facts can be cherry picked, distorted or even fabricated to support it.
As with Trump, the truth means nothing them. Winning -- the agenda -- is all that matters.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words.
There is fallacy in most -- even all -- of his words.
It's what happens when one starts with an agenda and backs into whichever facts can be cherry picked, distorted or even fabricated to support it.
As with Trump, the truth means nothing them. Winning -- the agenda -- is all that matters.
Gee, if only I wasn't a well read liberal, concerned about National Security, you might have a point.
The funny thing is, you are exactly like Donald Trump, spouting nonsense without anything to back it up.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words.
There is fallacy in most -- even all -- of his words.
It's what happens when one starts with an agenda and backs into whichever facts can be cherry picked, distorted or even fabricated to support it.
As with Trump, the truth means nothing them. Winning -- the agenda -- is all that matters.
Gee, if only I wasn't a well read liberal, concerned about National Security, you might have a point.
The funny thing is, you are exactly like Donald Trump, spouting nonsense without anything to back it up.
LOL... More falsehoods....
The really funny thing about what you said is you are simply parroting the talking points of Trump & his minions and I am refuting them!
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
BBC is also fake news. There is no extradition because British government did not sign extradition with China. Why BBC won't say it? BBC is fooling people. In the early 2000s, China wanted to complete basic law number 23. That was met with great opposition. Beijing withdraw basic law 23. So there is not ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
BBC is also fake news. There is no extradition because British government did not sign extradition with China. Why BBC won't say it? BBC is fooling people. In the early 2000s, China wanted to complete basic law number 23. That was met with great opposition. Beijing withdraw basic law 23. So there is not ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
...sure, if you say so...but you might want to read the very last sentence...
"Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
There has been enough reporting out of China over the years for that statement to be true.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
BBC is also fake news. There is no extradition because British government did not sign extradition with China. Why BBC won't say it? BBC is fooling people. In the early 2000s, China wanted to complete basic law number 23. That was met with great opposition. Beijing withdraw basic law 23. So there is not ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Article 23 of the Hong Kong Basic Law provides that the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region “shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.”
The SAR Government released its Proposals to Implement Article 23 of the Basic Law in September 2002, and introduced a National Security (Legislative Provisions) Bill to the Legislative Council in February 2003. These developments sparked intense debate in Hong Kong over the potential impact of the new national security provisions on human rights, especially the right to freedom of expression and assembly.
Following a massive demonstration by Hong Kong people on 1 July 2003, the Government withdrew its proposed bill.
It appears that Hong Kong wants to be nothing like Mainland China, again wrt to human rights.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
BBC is also fake news. There is no extradition because British government did not sign extradition with China. Why BBC won't say it? BBC is fooling people. In the early 2000s, China wanted to complete basic law number 23. That was met with great opposition. Beijing withdraw basic law 23. So there is not ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
...sure, if you say so...but you might want to read the very last sentence...
"Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
There has been enough reporting out of China over the years for that statement to be true.
I agree that the legal system in China is not up to par to western standard. Although the western legal system is not perfect too.
That's kind of silly. Not only has Trump already surrendered in his unwinnable war but he'll be gone before any plants can be built.
Just stop. Your TDS has made you myopic to the hundred other reasons to dislike doing business in China, a single-party, authoritarian, murderous regime state and grinds up human rights. I don’t know what your deal is, but I guarantee you would not wish to live in China by choice.
America is more murderous than China. The homicide rate in US is seven times higher than China.
It would be impossible given the U.S. homicide rate, which is falling, for the U.S. to ever catch up with the 30 million plus that died under CCP rule in the past, and those that are dying under CCP rule in the present. I'm guessing that harvesting body parts from unwilling donors like political prisoners, is something that exists almost exclusively in China, that absolutely won't be found in the U.S. I would certainly consider that "homicide".
Your whataboutism does't really mitigate the Authoritarian governance of Xi Jinping and the CCP, nor China's obvious influence campaigns in the West that are in fact generating a heck of a lot of backlash.
So which fake news site did you get that nonsense from?
"Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded."
So you have to pull rumors and ancient history to support your crazy claims. Got it. Perhaps we should discuss the genocide of the Native Americans here 200 years ago or the enslavement of Africans 150 years ago -- or rumors that we kidnap kids from their parents and put them in cages without basic sanitation. Why should we not be judged by that if you are using the same criteria to judge the Chinese for far lesser crimes?
LOL, I love how you are so adept at sticking your head in the sand.
I'm quite aware of the history of the U.S., as well as human rights violations against immigrants and others in the U.S.
Still, China's human rights violations are broad and blatant, to the point that backlash against China is building in the West:
"Tuesday’s half-day UN panel, which included brief comments from more than 100 UN member states and responses from China, highlighted the range of human rights issues raised by advocates. While some states praised Beijing’s progress on human rights, others issued harsher statements.
“Overall, we are concerned about the broader deterioration of human rights in China since the last universal periodic review,” said Tamara Mawhinney, Canada’s deputy permanent representative at the UN.
Germany called on China to “end all unlawful detentions in Xinjiang,” while Iceland and Japan expressed concern about the rights of minorities in Xinjiang. Several states urged China allow UN observers into Xinjiang. The US called on China to abolish all internment camps in the far western territory and release the “possibly millions” detained there.
Chinese delegates said internment centres were not re-education camps but vocational centres that offered free training in the law, language, and workplace skills.
"“We will not accept the politically driven accusations from a few countries that are fraught with biases, with total disregard for facts,” said vice foreign minister Le Yucheng. “No country shall dictate the definition of democracy and human rights,” he said."
Uhm, actually defining human rights is part of the U.N. Charter.
I think Freedom of Speech will be the downfall of western civilization. Because it is implemented without any check and balance in US. As a result, exaggeration, distortion, and lies like Trump like to call, have flooded the Americans society. America is losing competitive power because of Freedom of Speech. Freedom fo Speech is the source of culture collision between US and China. US Congress hates China because China does not allow Freedom of Speech like in US. US Congress passed laws accusing China of human rights violations. India just passed laws banning Muslims of getting citizenship. US Congress is mum on India. Why? So US Congress stance on China is contradictory. And this will backfire on US.
Yes, that is so true. And ironic since it has been touted for most of my life as one of the inherent strengths of our country. But, today we have a president lacking in morals who lies more than he tells the truth and is backed by a powerful right wing propaganda machine deicated to spreading his propaganda -- and now has the world's most powerful military, intelligence and justice systems at his beck and call to lend credence and legitimacy to his false claims.
Yes, our free press has been weaponized as a political tool of a would be despot.
Western civilization is based on two cultures, classical Greece and Christianity. Christianity displaced Greek culture after it became the Roman national religion. Christianity thinks human beings are born with sin or evil. Believing God is the only way for redemption. Chinese culture is based on Confucianism for over two thousand year. Confucianism thinks human being are born good. You became evil because of environment. Education is the way to learn to be good instead of becoming bad. And the government should be actively getting rid of bad people. For one thousand years Europeans daily live is for redemption just like Muslims today. Then modern science is born. Some intellectuals have doubts on the truthfulness of the Bible. But less educated people cannot understand science. They still believe in God wholeheartedly.When USA is founded the founding fathers realized this conflict. They passed amendment to protect freedom of speech so government cannot control religion. Government has to tolerate lies as long as people pretend the lies are for goodness. So what Chinese government did it in Xinjiang is based on the old Chinese culture not communism. The government tried to re-educate people because it thinks the terrorism activities there is people being led by bad environment. From my personal view point, I think humans beings are born with some evil. Christianity is more right than Confucianism. Freedom of speech forbids government to teach people and control people. For the ultra right ring white supremacists that think Chinese culture is bad and western culture is nice, please explain to me why western civilization created two world wars? I have not read any western scholar dare to explain thin in terms of culture. But they are very eager to blame any bad thing in China on Chinese culture. Freedom of speech is only good intellectuals. For low iq people, their speech is most likely flawed, illogical, and against facts. They use imagination to make up speeches.
I think people are born with the capacity for both good and evil. And, it is a decision that each must make on a daily basis.
As for freedom of the press: right now China's is the stronger system. We just got done having Russia and the Far Right exploit our free press to overturn a national election through a disinformation campaign that continues to this day. And, while that is going on, the far right continues to use it in order to grow home grown terrorists.
Our free press is being weaponized and used against us by those who choose evil to attack the foundations of U.S. society. China simply wouldn't tolerate that.
Certainly they wouldn't tolerate that, but they and their pals Russia, are more than happy to provide those attacks, especially to glean whatever dual use technology they can from the West, and rely on useful idiots as yourself to do the rest;
"In political jargon, a useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] The term was originally used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation.[1] The term has often been attributed to Vladimir Lenin,[3] but this attribution is unsubstantiated.[4][5]"
"China uses “United Front” work to co-opt and neutralize sources of potential opposition to the policies and authority of its ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The CCP’s United Front Work Department (UFWD)—the agency responsible for coordinating these kinds of influence operations—mostly focuses on the management of potential opposition groups inside China, but it also has an important foreign influence mission. To carry out its influence activities abroad, the UFWD directs “overseas Chinese work,” which seeks to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and communities living outside China, while a number of other key affiliated organizations guided by China’s broader United Front strategy conduct influence operations targeting foreign actors and states. Some of these entities have clear connections to the CCP’s United Front strategy, while others’ linkage is less explicit. Today, United Front-related organizations are playing an increasingly important role in China’s broader foreign policy under Chinese President and General Secretary of the CCP Xi Jinping. It is precisely the nature of United Front work to seek influence through connections that are difficult to publically prove and to gain influence that is interwoven with sensitive issues such as ethnic, political, and national identity, making those who seek to identify the negative effects of such influence vulnerable to accusations of prejudice. Because of the complexities of this issue, it is crucial for the U.S. government to better understand Beijing’s United Front strategy, its goals, and the actors responsible for achieving them if it is to formulate an effective and comprehensive response."
Tzeshan is almost certainly a participant in the United Front, which has been much less effective in the U.S. than it has in smaller democracies.
"Russia’s efforts to influence elections in the United States and Europe were a wake-up call about the threat of foreign influence in domestic public opinion and politics, blatantly violating norms of non-interference.
China is not guilty of Russia’s excesses, but Beijing’s information and influence campaign has affected countries from Singapore to Sweden, causing many to take countermeasures.
China’s campaigns range from overt diplomacy and public messaging disseminated through propaganda organs, to covert cyber exercises by specialised hackers and the “
Its capabilities are built into the government’s vast propaganda apparatus, including the People’s Liberation Army, intelligence departments, and the foreign education and culture ministries.
"“How are you?” John asked one woman in Mandarin. She said nothing and abruptly left. But, oddly, she returned 10 minutes later wearing a different-coloured shirt. The group persisted even after John and Tara got up to leave, until Tara started to film them with her phone camera. One man was walking directly towards her until she produced the phone, at which point he immediately started walking sideways, crab-style, to avoid having his face recorded.
It wasn’t the only act of harassment against Garnaut and his family, but it was a notably overt one. The message was plain: you have displeased the Chinese government and we are going to punish you. We can always find you, we know where you live, we can act with impunity in the middle of Australia’s biggest cities. We don’t care that you worked for a prime minister. We are not afraid of Australia’s authorities."
Yeah, China's fucking wonderful...
Since what I posted and you mostly ignored was based on verified fact and you're just spouting Trumpian / right wing propaganda, you should probably apply your "Useful Idiot" tag to yourself. Actually, I'm kind of surprised you didn't throw Ukraine in with your diversion from the ongoing Russian attacks on our elections -- or has Russia & Trump given up on that nonsense?.
Try reading my posts with comprehension, then post links to support your point of view that China is "benevolent".
Until that occurs, you are just a mirror image of Trump, spouting nonsense.
Your links are just news media echoing opinions of western propaganda machines based on distortion and imagination.
I'm sure that you have a specific complaint about the many months of coverage of the Hong Kong Protests that you could post. That certainly didn't appear like the Western Propaganda Machine in action, but I can see how you and Mainland China would be afraid of the reality of Hong Kong Citizens protesting to maintain their current freedoms.
Again, another case of the Xi Jinping overextending his reach.
Many Hong Kong people protested the planned extradition law for many months. There are some people going extreme. They smashed stores. They burned people. Hong Kong police used tear gas trying to restore order. Do you see any video of these things?
Everyone in the Whole Wide World had access to those video's, and by and large, it was the inept actions of the Police and Carrie Lam that was the reason that the protests continued and escalated.
"The Hong Kong police’s heavy-handed crowd-control response on the streets has been livestreamed for the world to see. Much less visible is the plethora of police abuses against protesters that take place out of sight."
“Time and again, police officers meted out violence prior to and during arrests, even when the individual had been restrained or detained. The use of force was therefore clearly excessive, violating international human rights law,” said Nicholas Bequelin.
The World knows what they saw, and it is Police Brutality in Hong Kong. It's all there, but obviously suppressed in Mainland China, who don't abide by international human rights Law.
Are you saying that thousands of arrests are all peaceful demonstrators? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal? There are lots of questions you cannot answer. The western faking media is safely protected under the freedom of speech act without having to take any responsibility for untruths. Or have to answer questions.
LOL.
You are availing yourself of our freedom of speech, yet there is no reciprocal of that in China that the West is allowed to use since speech is completely controlled by the state in China.
Still using the whataboutism to justify the human rights violations that are common in China. We saw all we needed to see in the almost nightly broadcasts of the protests in Hong Kong; brave citizens of Hong Kong fighting for freedom from the oppressive police and pro Beijing counter protest. That's simply because the West values freedom, and China doe not.
You are using freedom of speech to evade my question.
No, I'm not.
There is actual independent journalism in the West, via many sources, and that's what I rely on. There is no equivalent in China.
I don't need you and your United Front propagandizing us.
OK I will repeat my question. Is the protests peaceful? Why US Congress say they are peaceful? Any of the arrests caused deaths? Or hospitalization? Do you think using taser gun to arrest people is brutal?
“This is the last stand in the sense that once the extradition bill is passed, there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system,” Hui, the Notre Dame professor, said. “It is the last step — this is really the last step in a whole series of erosions of Hong Kong’s autonomy since 1997.”
That huge show of opposition — as much as one-seventh of Hong Kong’s entire population demonstrated — did not persuade Lam to back down. She insisted on moving ahead.
On June 12, protesters swarmed the area near Hong Kong’s legislature, delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds.
The police’s use of force — and their decision to call the protesters “rioters” and arrest some on rioting charges, which carries severe penalties — created a rift between the people and the police.
That fracture helped transform the protests against the extradition bill into a larger movement against the Hong Kong government and police abuses, leading to calls for an independent police investigation and Lam’s resignation.
So the answer is, the protests were peaceful until the police fired tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowd, and then arrested some on rioting charges.
Yeah, so I'm fine with the protests being peaceful, at least until the Police over reacted, and it sure looks like Carrie Lam's ineptitude was the reason that the protests and the police response became more violent.
There are many fallacy in these words. 1. there is no more protection of Hong Kong against mainland China’s criminal system, - wrong! extradition needs approval of Hong Kong judicial system. 2. delaying the debate that would have effectively allowed for the speedy passage of the proposed extradition law amendments. - wrong! the extradition law amendments has been posted before June 9. A sit-in by Demosistō held at the Central Government Complex on 15 March was the first protest against the extradition bill. It is not speedy. 3. These protests were met with violence, with police firing tear gas, rubber bullets, and beanbags at the crowds. - wrong! Police firing tear gas because some unruly protesters unwilling to remain orderly. The wordings are lies. It implies the crowds are peaceful. Although it did not use the word peaceful explicitly. But the words that protests were met with violence does have this meaning. But it is a lie.
Let me tell you one thing that you may not know. After Hong Kong returned to China, China gradually become richer. Some criminals park their illegal money in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong does not have extradition law with China because of previous British rule and the new complete autonomy rule granted to Hong Kong. Beijing cannot interfere in Hong Kong judicial system. Many Hong Kong judges are still white people. Many protesters are probably due to these protesters.
Gee, if only Mainland China's legal system was like Hong Kong's, there wouldn't even have been an issue with extradition legislation.
Had the legislation passed, anyone in Hong Kong could be legally picked up on charges and shipped to China, where the legal system to protect individuals from the State barely exists.
You make the same mistake as GeorgeBMac does of not supporting your POV, "But it is a Lie", with external links, and yeah, external links from Mainland China will always be vetted by the State.
That's not the independent journalism that we expect in the West.
You did not read my points. According to the proposed extradition law, extradition must be approved by Hong Kong judicial. What do you mean by legally picked up ? You just conveniently insert untrue word. I don't have POV like you. I am speaking according to facts. You speak according to freedom of speech.
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
BBC is also fake news. There is no extradition because British government did not sign extradition with China. Why BBC won't say it? BBC is fooling people. In the early 2000s, China wanted to complete basic law number 23. That was met with great opposition. Beijing withdraw basic law 23. So there is not ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Article 23 of the Hong Kong Basic Law provides that the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region “shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.”
The SAR Government released its Proposals to Implement Article 23 of the Basic Law in September 2002, and introduced a National Security (Legislative Provisions) Bill to the Legislative Council in February 2003. These developments sparked intense debate in Hong Kong over the potential impact of the new national security provisions on human rights, especially the right to freedom of expression and assembly.
Following a massive demonstration by Hong Kong people on 1 July 2003, the Government withdrew its proposed bill.
It appears that Hong Kong wants to be nothing like Mainland China, again wrt to human rights.
Comments
The fact they have been allowed to protest put the lie to your claim.
There is fallacy in most -- even all -- of his words.
As with Trump, the truth means nothing them.
Winning -- the agenda -- is all that matters.
The funny thing is, you are exactly like Donald Trump, spouting nonsense without anything to back it up.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-47810723
"Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US, but no such agreements have been reached with mainland China despite ongoing negotiations in the past two decades.
Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
"Critics have attributed such failures to poor legal protection for defendants under Chinese law."
There has been enough reporting out of China over the years for that statement to be true.
http://www.law.hku.hk/hrportal/basic-law/research-article-23
Article 23 of the Hong Kong Basic Law provides that the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region “shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.”
The SAR Government released its Proposals to Implement Article 23 of the Basic Law in September 2002, and introduced a National Security (Legislative Provisions) Bill to the Legislative Council in February 2003. These developments sparked intense debate in Hong Kong over the potential impact of the new national security provisions on human rights, especially the right to freedom of expression and assembly.
Following a massive demonstration by Hong Kong people on 1 July 2003, the Government withdrew its proposed bill.
It appears that Hong Kong wants to be nothing like Mainland China, again wrt to human rights.