Four? I'd rather hope for AMD. Eight? Is it -U? No? ...
I'd rather hope to switch ARM.
In the higher end, 8.
That will give them a hard time to compete. AMD is treating -U and -H almost the same, if cooling is alright (not any worse than Ice Lake), Intel is going to have a hard time.
I think they already have, consider AMD have doubling the cores in almost every categories.
Feh. Almost nobody needs more than 8 cores, and the large majority of those don’t need more than four. Everybody seems to think that they’re special, and so the more cores the better, but that’s nonsense.
For what I do now, I can still live with two, but everyone knows what to choose when they have the option of eight, that's their game. Intel still adding two more in the latest.
For decades, Intel was king of laptop/desktop/server processors. Now AMD. Here is one example where AMD will win 2020 laptop market. Ryzen 7 4800U features eight Zen 2 cores, 16 threads, up to 4.2GHz
boost, 1.8GHz base, eight Radeon cores and 15W TDP. Graphics will be 28%
better than Intel's Core i7, 90% better on multi-thread performance and 4% higher on single-thread performance. If no Apple made CPU/GPU than should Apple move to AMD for it's 2020 13(or14" ) MBP and MBA ?
Intel trying to assure customers that they still have many irons in fire to fight back AMD. Time will tell !!!
I don’t expect AMD to “win” anything, and by win, I assume you mean taking a large percentage of marketshare, possibly more than 50%. This has been the dream of AMD enthusiasts for a couple of decades, at least. But realistically, more than 8 cores has little benefit for most anyone. It’s not as thought Intel is standing still. Now with 10nm on line, equivelant to about everyone else’s 7nm, we’ll see them equalizing the competitive landscape. It could take a year or so to do it, but they will. Intel was counted out before, but the soothsayers were proven wrong. I predict they will be again.
I can pretty much guarantee than in two to three years, AMD will be back where they’ve always been. The same thing was said about AMD in the latter years of the Netburst era, when Intel was relying on their superior process technology, and AMD found that they had to go wider instead with their inferior tech. And was running much sliver (like IBM) so they weren’t hit as much by the 90nm problems if the day. But just when Intel was being counted out by the AMD fans, they changed what they were doing and crushed AMD.
I’m not saying the exact same scenario will occur, but anything AMD can do, Intel can do. They’ve learned from their 10nm problems of trying to do everything at once, and that’s behind them. If 7nm comes on schedule around when we expect it, they will be even, or slightly ahead in process. That’s when we’ll really see where things will be.
Yeah we'll see, so far it looks they did worse than Netburst. They've been struggled with heat, performance increase, and now, the competition. When they got their 7nm ready, TSMC will be moving towards 5nm. I know, not that smaller always means better, but the huge advantage once exists were gone.
And thanks to them, the 15" Pro keep souring on RAM.
The problem that Intel has had with 10nm was that they tried to make it a true 10nm process, which nobody else has done. Nobody else has a true 7nm process either, and they won’t have a true 5nm process. They’ve learned from that, and we can be sure they won’t repeat that mistake going forward. Nevertheless, their 10nm process is approx equivalent to other 7nm processes, even though they relaxed their requirements.
Four? I'd rather hope for AMD. Eight? Is it -U? No? ...
I'd rather hope to switch ARM.
In the higher end, 8.
That will give them a hard time to compete. AMD is treating -U and -H almost the same, if cooling is alright (not any worse than Ice Lake), Intel is going to have a hard time.
I think they already have, consider AMD have doubling the cores in almost every categories.
Feh. Almost nobody needs more than 8 cores, and the large majority of those don’t need more than four. Everybody seems to think that they’re special, and so the more cores the better, but that’s nonsense.
For what I do now, I can still live with two, but everyone knows what to choose when they have the option of eight, that's their game. Intel still adding two more in the latest.
For decades, Intel was king of laptop/desktop/server processors. Now AMD. Here is one example where AMD will win 2020 laptop market. Ryzen 7 4800U features eight Zen 2 cores, 16 threads, up to 4.2GHz
boost, 1.8GHz base, eight Radeon cores and 15W TDP. Graphics will be 28%
better than Intel's Core i7, 90% better on multi-thread performance and 4% higher on single-thread performance. If no Apple made CPU/GPU than should Apple move to AMD for it's 2020 13(or14" ) MBP and MBA ?
Intel trying to assure customers that they still have many irons in fire to fight back AMD. Time will tell !!!
I don’t expect AMD to “win” anything, and by win, I assume you mean taking a large percentage of marketshare, possibly more than 50%. This has been the dream of AMD enthusiasts for a couple of decades, at least. But realistically, more than 8 cores has little benefit for most anyone. It’s not as thought Intel is standing still. Now with 10nm on line, equivelant to about everyone else’s 7nm, we’ll see them equalizing the competitive landscape. It could take a year or so to do it, but they will. Intel was counted out before, but the soothsayers were proven wrong. I predict they will be again.
I can pretty much guarantee than in two to three years, AMD will be back where they’ve always been. The same thing was said about AMD in the latter years of the Netburst era, when Intel was relying on their superior process technology, and AMD found that they had to go wider instead with their inferior tech. And was running much sliver (like IBM) so they weren’t hit as much by the 90nm problems if the day. But just when Intel was being counted out by the AMD fans, they changed what they were doing and crushed AMD.
I’m not saying the exact same scenario will occur, but anything AMD can do, Intel can do. They’ve learned from their 10nm problems of trying to do everything at once, and that’s behind them. If 7nm comes on schedule around when we expect it, they will be even, or slightly ahead in process. That’s when we’ll really see where things will be.
Yeah we'll see, so far it looks they did worse than Netburst. They've been struggled with heat, performance increase, and now, the competition. When they got their 7nm ready, TSMC will be moving towards 5nm. I know, not that smaller always means better, but the huge advantage once exists were gone.
And thanks to them, the 15" Pro keep souring on RAM.
The problem that Intel has had with 10nm was that they tried to make it a true 10nm process, which nobody else has done. Nobody else has a true 7nm process either, and they won’t have a true 5nm process. They’ve learned from that, and we can be sure they won’t repeat that mistake going forward. Nevertheless, their 10nm process is approx equivalent to other 7nm processes, even though they relaxed their requirements.
At best, it won’t be that further apart where they used to, that’s what I mean.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4.
this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4.
this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4.
this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
They have to sync up with USB 4, so whatever it’s going to be, it’ll be called TB4 for marketing reasons if nothing else.
re: model refreshes, there has to be something to replace the previous parts before they can release a new model. Intel just announced a couple months ago the W-2200 series that iMac Pro will use in the 2020 models. No idea if they’re shipping yet, or shipping in quantity. (iMac Pro was really a 1Q2018 release, if you recall, and the 14- and 18-core parts weren’t even available until Feb 2018.) WWDC would be a likely time to announce.
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
In any case, we’re well past the point that differences year over year are even discernible. Two year updates, +/-, are pretty much what I expect, and are constrained by Intel and AMD’s shipping schedules.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4.
this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
They have to sync up with USB 4, so whatever it’s going to be, it’ll be called TB4 for marketing reasons if nothing else.
re: model refreshes, there has to be something to replace the previous parts before they can release a new model. Intel just announced a couple months ago the W-2200 series that iMac Pro will use in the 2020 models. No idea if they’re shipping yet, or shipping in quantity. (iMac Pro was really a 1Q2018 release, if you recall, and the 14- and 18-core parts weren’t even available until Feb 2018.) WWDC would be a likely time to announce.
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
In any case, we’re well past the point that differences year over year are even discernible. Two year updates, +/-, are pretty much what I expect, and are constrained by Intel and AMD’s shipping schedules.
I doubt they will put socket 3647 inside the iMac Pro, the only option available then will be Core-X series. Won't be a "workstation" though.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4. Intel’s new chips will supposedly have support for ?TB 4 built in, removing the need for separate co trollers. How that affects things, in nit sure yet. But, I’ve read in Microprocessor ?Reports that PCIe 3 this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
They have to sync up with USB 4, so whatever it’s going to be, it’ll be called TB4 for marketing reasons if nothing else.
re: model refreshes, there has to be something to replace the previous parts before they can release a new model. Intel just announced a couple months ago the W-2200 series that iMac Pro will use in the 2020 models. No idea if they’re shipping yet, or shipping in quantity. (iMac Pro was really a 1Q2018 release, if you recall, and the 14- and 18-core parts weren’t even available until Feb 2018.) WWDC would be a likely time to announce.
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
In any case, we’re well past the point that differences year over year are even discernible. Two year updates, +/-, are pretty much what I expect, and are constrained by Intel and AMD’s shipping schedules.
From Intel, the new chips will support ?TB 4 internally, no longer requiring external controllers. Those chips also support PCIe 4. Reportedly, from Microprocessor Reports, the TB bottleneck of PCIe 3 (mostly delayed by intel) will then be eliminated with the doubling old speeds.
this isn’t the same thing as merely moving to a newer CPU that’s 10% faster. PCIe 4 sets things up for the follow on PCIe 5. It’s a major upgrade. We’ll see other workstation vendors move to it later this year.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4. Intel’s new chips will supposedly have support for ?TB 4 built in, removing the need for separate co trollers. How that affects things, in nit sure yet. But, I’ve read in Microprocessor ?Reports that PCIe 3 this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
They have to sync up with USB 4, so whatever it’s going to be, it’ll be called TB4 for marketing reasons if nothing else.
re: model refreshes, there has to be something to replace the previous parts before they can release a new model. Intel just announced a couple months ago the W-2200 series that iMac Pro will use in the 2020 models. No idea if they’re shipping yet, or shipping in quantity. (iMac Pro was really a 1Q2018 release, if you recall, and the 14- and 18-core parts weren’t even available until Feb 2018.) WWDC would be a likely time to announce.
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
In any case, we’re well past the point that differences year over year are even discernible. Two year updates, +/-, are pretty much what I expect, and are constrained by Intel and AMD’s shipping schedules.
From Intel, the new chips will support ?TB 4 internally, no longer requiring external controllers. Those chips also support PCIe 4. Reportedly, from Microprocessor Reports, the TB bottleneck of PCIe 3 (mostly delayed by intel) will then be eliminated with the doubling old speeds.
this isn’t the same thing as merely moving to a newer CPU that’s 10% faster. PCIe 4 sets things up for the follow on PCIe 5. It’s a major upgrade. We’ll see other workstation vendors move to it later this year.
More bandwidth is good. PCIe 4.0/5.0 will be a transition. But whether TB4 is any faster than TB3, Intel won’t answer now. That isn’t necessarily a good sign.
More importantly, Tiger Lake will support Thunderbolt 4, at, from what Intel is saying, 4 times the speed of usb, assumed to be the latest 20Gb/s, giving TB 4 a speed of 80Gb/s.
while the early Tiger Lake CPUs will be for thin laptops, later in the year, we can expect that to move to their other lines, hopefully the Xeon, allowing a new PCIe 4 Mac Pro to add TB 4. Intel’s new chips will supposedly have support for ?TB 4 built in, removing the need for separate co trollers. How that affects things, in nit sure yet. But, I’ve read in Microprocessor ?Reports that PCIe 3 this us why I decided to wait.
It’s not at all clear TB4 will be 80Gbps. It’s looking more like 40Gbps. re: Mac Pro, I wouldn’t expect an update until late 2021 or early 2022. It may align with PCIe5 rather than v4, it depends on Intel’s follow on to the Xeon 3200 series.
No point in calling it TB 4 if there’s no improvement. Intel had said that in ten years it would be 100Gb/s. I had expected 60Gb/s for TB 4, but we’ll see.
I don’t like Apple introducing pro level machines, and then waiting several years before upgrading them. Even with the “new Mini, it’s been since 2018, And the iMac Pro is from 2017. I’m not seeing competitors doing that. In fact, Apple didn’t used to do that. I’mhoping they won’t do it with this. If so, a lot of customers will be very disappointed.
They have to sync up with USB 4, so whatever it’s going to be, it’ll be called TB4 for marketing reasons if nothing else.
re: model refreshes, there has to be something to replace the previous parts before they can release a new model. Intel just announced a couple months ago the W-2200 series that iMac Pro will use in the 2020 models. No idea if they’re shipping yet, or shipping in quantity. (iMac Pro was really a 1Q2018 release, if you recall, and the 14- and 18-core parts weren’t even available until Feb 2018.) WWDC would be a likely time to announce.
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
In any case, we’re well past the point that differences year over year are even discernible. Two year updates, +/-, are pretty much what I expect, and are constrained by Intel and AMD’s shipping schedules.
From Intel, the new chips will support ?TB 4 internally, no longer requiring external controllers. Those chips also support PCIe 4. Reportedly, from Microprocessor Reports, the TB bottleneck of PCIe 3 (mostly delayed by intel) will then be eliminated with the doubling old speeds.
this isn’t the same thing as merely moving to a newer CPU that’s 10% faster. PCIe 4 sets things up for the follow on PCIe 5. It’s a major upgrade. We’ll see other workstation vendors move to it later this year.
More bandwidth is good. PCIe 4.0/5.0 will be a transition. But whether TB4 is any faster than TB3, Intel won’t answer now. That isn’t necessarily a good sign.
I agree, but sometimes Intel keeps things close to their vest until they’re ready to release. I can’t think of a reason for them to keep the same speed, unless they’ve run into a technical problem. But from people I’ve spoken to, they believe it’s been PCIe 3 that’s been holding it back. And the long gestation time for PCIe 4 is mostly due to Intel itself.
Comments
Regarding the mini (November 2018) there has been no follow-on CPUs to the 8100B/8500B/8700B (65W BGA package) yet released by Intel, but Comet Lake in Q2/Q3 should bring both 8- and 10-core parts. Until then there’s simply no upgrade possible—but then again it’s only been 14 months since the last release. By the time new CPUs are shipping and integrated into a new mini, it’ll probably be a fall release.
Similar to iMac Pro, until Intel releases an update to the recently released W-3200 series it uses, there’s really nothing to upgrade. AMD will very likely introduce some Navi-based GPUs that Apple will offer mid-cycle, but the CPUs are what they are. (Unless Apple moves to AMD which is a possibility but not necessarily likely.)
Really they still cares about the 2066.
this isn’t the same thing as merely moving to a newer CPU that’s 10% faster. PCIe 4 sets things up for the follow on PCIe 5. It’s a major upgrade. We’ll see other workstation vendors move to it later this year.