FBI again asks Apple to unlock iPhones belonging to suspected shooter

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2020
The FBI has formally asked Apple to help it unlock two iPhones reportedly belonging to the gunman who killed three people in Pensacola, Florida, in December, but Apple says it has already given all the help it can.




Officials from the FBI have written a letter to Apple's general counsel, asking for help in unlocking two iPhones believed to be owned by Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani. Alshamrani is suspected of carrying out the shootings last month at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida, and the FBI says it has court permission to search the phones.

"Investigators are actively engaging in efforts to 'guess' the relevant passcodes but have so far been unsuccessful," the letter, seen by NBC News, says.

"We have the greatest respect for law enforcement and have always worked cooperatively to help in their investigations," responded Apple in a statement. "When the FBI requested information from us relating to this case a month ago, we gave them all of the data in our possession and we will continue to support them with the data we have available."

According to NBC News, the FBI faces a further problem with unlocking one of the iPhones -- Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani reportedly fired a bullet into it before he was killed.

AppleInsider has reached out to Apple and the FBI for comment.

FBI, iPhones, and Cellebrite

FBI General Counsel Dana Boente, who wrote the letter, also reportedly tells Apple in it that the agency has sought help from "familiar contacts in the third-party vendor community."

This is perhaps a reference to Cellebrite, a firm that the FBI previously hired to unlock the iPhone of the gunman involved in the San Bernardino case.

In December 2015, a terrorist attack in San Bernardino resulted in the deaths of 14 people. An iPhone 5C belonging to one of the attackers was recovered but was locked. In February 2016, a Federal judge ordered Apple to unlock a gunman's iPhone 5C but Apple refused the order. As with this latest request, Apple offered all the data that it had, but refused to create a backdoor into its iOS encryption.

Tim Cook later said he had hoped the case would go to trial with the DOJ in order to publicly raise all of the security and privacy issues.

The FBI ultimately hired a third-party company, believed to be Cellebrite, to break into the phone. The agency was reported to have spent $900,000 but wouldn't confirm if useful data was recovered.

However, separate law enforcement sources later said that the iPhone had yielded no pertinent information.

Since the San Bernardino case, Apple has created a page on its website specifically for law enforcement officials to request what data the company has.

Apple also said that it was working to train law enforcement on the issues surrounding such cases.

"We are building a team of professionals dedicated to training law enforcement officers globally, which will significantly increase our ability to reach smaller police forces and agencies," said Apple at the time. "This will include the development of an online training module for officers. This will assist Apple in training a larger number of law enforcement agencies and officers globally, and ensure that our company's information and guidance can be updated to reflect the rapidly changing data landscape."

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 11
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Well, what’s the truth? We have third party companies selling equipment to law enforcement to unlock iPhones. Eazy Peezy they say. Truth or fake news? We have security experts saying iOS is full of security holes that can be exploited by state actors. Isn't the FBI a state actor? Truth or fake news? If all of this is true then why is the FBI asking Apple for help again when they should be able to crack that iPhone open on their own? Questions, questions. And if the news about machines opening up iPhones and security holes being exploited is complete bullshit then who is responsible for this troll?
    pscooter63donjuancornchipmwhitewatto_cobrabadmonkllamajony0cincymacJaiOh81
  • Reply 2 of 11
    Eff the FBI. 
    jbdragonwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 11
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,953member
    lkrupp said:
    Well, what’s the truth? We have third party companies selling equipment to law enforcement to unlock iPhones. Eazy Peezy they say. Truth or fake news? We have security experts saying iOS is full of security holes that can be exploited by state actors. Isn't the FBI a state actor? Truth or fake news? If all of this is true then why is the FBI asking Apple for help again when they should be able to crack that iPhone open on their own? Questions, questions. And if the news about machines opening up iPhones and security holes being exploited is complete bullshit then who is responsible for this troll?
     <3  <3 <3
    watto_cobrallama
  • Reply 4 of 11
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,128member
    lkrupp said:
    Well, what’s the truth? We have third party companies selling equipment to law enforcement to unlock iPhones. Eazy Peezy they say. Truth or fake news? We have security experts saying iOS is full of security holes that can be exploited by state actors. Isn't the FBI a state actor? Truth or fake news? If all of this is true then why is the FBI asking Apple for help again when they should be able to crack that iPhone open on their own? Questions, questions. And if the news about machines opening up iPhones and security holes being exploited is complete bullshit then who is responsible for this troll?
    Literally responsible for this troll? That would be you!

    A bullet has eliminated one back door option. Perhaps iOS 13 has blocked Cellebrite's software on the second phone.
  • Reply 5 of 11
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,266member
    Does the FBI actually think Apple can get any information out of an iPhone that's been shot? In their wildest dreams I imagine the data storage might be accessible if the bullet went through the battery and didn't hit any storage chips but I imagine the bullet took out most of the insides so there's an almost zero chance anything could be recovered.
    cornchipwatto_cobrabadmonk
  • Reply 6 of 11
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,039member
    This is an ongoing political effort by the FBI and law enforcement in general to wipe out any personal privacy you have with digital devices. It has persisted under both Democratic and Republican administrations and has been rightly opposed by citizens of all political persuasions.

    The Supreme Court rightly said that the cell phone carries personal information and should require a warrant for even the most causal intrusion by a law enforcement officer. That 9-0 opinion was written by John Roberts, by the way. Everyone from Ruth Badger Ginsburg to Antonin Scalia agreed, which tells you how broad the concern for privacy is among the members of the court.

    This is not about a particular case- it is about destroying your expectation of privacy. They want to be able to take your devices at border crossings, airports, train stations and other ports of entry just because they feel like it and do so every day. They want to inspect your phone at roadside stops without a warrant. They want a back door to peer into your device without your permission and routinely use Stingrays to spoof cell towers and scoop up wireless traffic over large areas.

    This is not about a single case or your safety or left-right politics. It is about your basic rights to privacy and the right to not self-incriminate. It is an inch by inch intrusion into your civil liberties and individual rights.

    Can I get an Amen?

    mobirddewmedonjuanbuzdotswatto_cobraRadio_Signalbadmonkllamajony0cincymac
  • Reply 7 of 11
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,039member

    lkrupp said:
    Well, what’s the truth? We have third party companies selling equipment to law enforcement to unlock iPhones. Eazy Peezy they say. Truth or fake news? We have security experts saying iOS is full of security holes that can be exploited by state actors. Isn't the FBI a state actor? Truth or fake news? If all of this is true then why is the FBI asking Apple for help again when they should be able to crack that iPhone open on their own? Questions, questions. And if the news about machines opening up iPhones and security holes being exploited is complete bullshit then who is responsible for this troll?
    Our government has been on a decades long campaign to eradicate any expectation of privacy by the citizen and this is just the latest episode in security theater. The US Government through various agencies has introduced weaknesses into industry standard protocols (via NIST) to create exploitable holes in the security of wireless devices. They hacked the software used to manufacture SIM cards to allow for exploits at the radio level apart from the operating system. Harris Stingrays have proliferated and routinely intercept massive amounts of data over huge areas to include innocent citizens not suspected of any crime. They routinely demand the devices of citizens suspected of nothing at points of entry to the United States and claim the ability to do so 100 miles inside the border or any point of entry as if you have no rights.

    The number one customer of data miners are the various levels of government law enforcement and intelligence gathering. They can easily buy data they are by law forbidden to collect without a court order. Private companies now scan your license plates and sell that data, but provide it to law enforcement for the access to the public rights of way.

    And they repeatedly try to put these cases up to try to force Apple and others to create digital backdoors that will compromise your security and privacy.

    So much for “to protect and serve”...
    edited January 2020 donjuanbuzdotswatto_cobraRadio_Signalbadmonkjony0
  • Reply 8 of 11
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,106member
    rob53 said:
    Does the FBI actually think Apple can get any information out of an iPhone that's been shot? In their wildest dreams I imagine the data storage might be accessible if the bullet went through the battery and didn't hit any storage chips but I imagine the bullet took out most of the insides so there's an almost zero chance anything could be recovered.
    Well... I suppose it depends on the location of the bullet hole.  Mind you that most of the space in the phone is taken up by the battery.  The logic board is actually to one side of the phone.  It's conceivable that if the guy shot the phone directly in the middle, then the logic board could have been spared.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 11
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,511member
    davgreg said:
    This is an ongoing political effort by the FBI and law enforcement in general to wipe out any personal privacy you have with digital devices. It has persisted under both Democratic and Republican administrations and has been rightly opposed by citizens of all political persuasions.

    The Supreme Court rightly said that the cell phone carries personal information and should require a warrant for even the most causal intrusion by a law enforcement officer. That 9-0 opinion was written by John Roberts, by the way. Everyone from Ruth Badger Ginsburg to Antonin Scalia agreed, which tells you how broad the concern for privacy is among the members of the court.

    This is not about a particular case- it is about destroying your expectation of privacy. They want to be able to take your devices at border crossings, airports, train stations and other ports of entry just because they feel like it and do so every day. They want to inspect your phone at roadside stops without a warrant. They want a back door to peer into your device without your permission and routinely use Stingrays to spoof cell towers and scoop up wireless traffic over large areas.

    This is not about a single case or your safety or left-right politics. It is about your basic rights to privacy and the right to not self-incriminate. It is an inch by inch intrusion into your civil liberties and individual rights.

    Can I get an Amen?

    Amen. 

    What’s really sad is that we’re only talking about the very last and thinnest layer of residual privacy that is still behind the curtain. More than two billion people have already given away the lion’s share of their privacy by engaging in self-indulgent behaviors on social media sites like Facebook, Twitter, and other Leak of the Week offenders. 

    When the FBI sees how little the masses really care about privacy and personal security why wouldn’t they feel emboldened to peel away the last few tiny patches keeping them from seeing everyone fully exposed? All they have to do is to declare that if you’re a red blooded American with nothing to hide, why wouldn’t you let them fully probe you to ensure the security of the nation and people we all love?

    Cue latex gloves being donned sound...
    donjuanwatto_cobraRadio_SignalbadmonkcincymacJaiOh81
  • Reply 10 of 11
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,871moderator
    FBI (to ACME Safe):  This new safe you’re manufacturing is impenetrable.

    ACME Safe:  That’s for noticing.  And thanks for being a long-time customer.

    FBI:  Yes, but, this new model, with the capability to totally destroy all documents inside, it’s giving us some trouble.  We have a warrant to search a home and it’s got one of these new models in it.  And we can’t get into it.  If we tamper with it, cause any vibration to it or get the combination wrong after three tries, it’ll destroy its contents.  We need you to open it for us.

    ACME Safe CEO:  I’m sorry, I can’t help you with that.  The safe is doing exactly what we designed it to do.

    FBI: You can’t help?  Or you won’t help?

    ACME Safe CEO: We can’t help.  We have no more means of opening that safe than you do.  We designed it that way.  Why should we design a backdoor capability to open our customer’s safes?  Who are we to retain that privilege?  What if one of our employees went rogue?  What if that backdoor means of opening any of the safes we sold got out into the general domain?  It would be a disaster, spelling the end of our business?

    FBI:  Okay, we understand.  We’ll just sue you to force you to incorporate a backdoor means to open these safes.  As it stands, they’re too safe.  Maybe we’ll even urge Congress to make it law.

    ACME Safe CEO:  Are you listening to yourself? 
    edited January 2020 dewmewatto_cobraRadio_SignalllamaJaiOh81
  • Reply 11 of 11
    felix01felix01 Posts: 294member
    Maybe the FBI should develop and robustly fund a hacker division dedicated to breaking into iPhones. And if unsuccessful, maybe they'll finally believe Cook. Then their alternative is to pursue legislative solutions. I want to see which congressmen (on the record) are in favor of forcing companies employing encryption in their devices to intentionally build in a backdoor knowing full well it will be broken or given up by a rogue employee with a better offer. 
    watto_cobraRadio_SignalJaiOh81
Sign In or Register to comment.