Sonos is suing Google for patent infringement, and wants to sue Amazon too

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2020
The speaker company Sonos says that Google "blatantly" used technology information disclosed in confidence -- and that if only it could afford to, it would simultaneously sue Amazon for the same reasons.

Sonos Move
Sonos Move on the patio


Long time audio speaker manufacturer Sonos has filed a complaint for patent infringement against Google, alleging that its technology was "blatantly and knowingly" by the search firm in its own range of speakers.

"Google has been blatantly and knowingly copying our patented technology," Sonos chief executive Patrick Spence said in a statement to the New York Times. "Despite our repeated and extensive efforts over the last few years, Google has not shown any willingness to work with us on a mutually beneficial solution. We're left with no choice but to litigate."

Executives from Sonos also told the NYT that it is solely financial constraints that prevent them similarly suing Amazon over the same alleged issues.

The case centers on how in 2013, Google agreed to make its music service compatible with Sonos speakers. Sonos executives now say that as part of that process, they naively gave Google what were effectively the blueprints to their speakers. At the time, Google did not make speakers, and they felt there was no conflict.

As early as 2013, Google gained knowledge of Sonos's patented multi-room technology through a partnership with Sonos to integrate Google Play Music into the Sonos platform," alleges the suit. "However, just two years later in 2015, Google began willfully infringing Sonos's patents when it launched its first wireless multi-room audio product - Chromecast Audio."

"Since 2015," it continues, "Google's misappropriation of Sonos's patented technology has only proliferated, as Google has expanded its wireless multi-room audio system to more than a dozen different infringing products, including, for example, the Google Home Mini, Google Home, Google Home Max, and Pixel phones, tablets, and laptops."

"Worse still, Google has persisted despite the fact that Sonos has warned Google of its infringement on at least four separate occasions dating back to 2016."

A Sonos speaker specifically for TV sets
A Sonos speaker specifically for TV sets


Jose Castaneda, a Google spokesman, told the New York Times that the company denies any wrongdoing.

"[We] are disappointed that Sonos brought these lawsuits instead of continuing negotiations in good faith," said Castaneda. "We dispute these claims and will defend them vigorously."

Similarly, Natalie Hereth, Amazon spokeswoman, said her company did not infringe on Sonos's patents.

"The Echo family of devices and our multi-room music technology were developed independently by Amazon," she told the New York Times.

Sonos maintains that Google has infringed around 100 of its patents, but its lawsuit, filed in the United States District Court, district of California, concentrate on five. These include one that covers how wireless speakers can connect and synchronise with each other.

Sonos is asking for trial by jury and is seeking unspecified financial damages and an injunction against Google continuing the alleged infringements. The company says that it sued Google first, because it cannot afford to be in a protracted legal battle with both Google and Amazon, simultaneously.

Sonos Versus Google by Mike Wuerthele on Scribd

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    If I remember correctly I think Sonos Sued Denon for its HEOS technology and won.   But I don’t remember what they actually won. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 16
    yuck9yuck9 Posts: 112member
    Advise to Sonos. If you win from Google, Take that cash and go after Amazon. 
    MacProcornchipwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 3 of 16
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,727member
    I hope Sonos didn't let Schmidt on their board too. Or in the door for that matter.
    gordywatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 4 of 16
    yuck9 said:
    Advise to Sonos. If you win from Google, Take that cash and go after Amazon. 
    Thank you Captain Obvious... Hello, triple damages for willful infringement. Good luck Sonos.
    cornchipgordywatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 5 of 16
    A lawsuit not involving Apple. How refreshing.
    lordjohnwhorfinlkruppcornchipWgkruegerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 6 of 16
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,860member
    I assume this was inadvertent on Google's part, and done by a contractor who is no longer associated with the company.  
  • Reply 7 of 16
    Google denies any infringement, but then said they were in negotiations with Sonos.  Doesn’t negotiating a deal over IP kind of imply your infringing???
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 16
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Google denies any infringement, but then said they were in negotiations with Sonos.  Doesn’t negotiating a deal over IP kind of imply your infringing???
    Not at all. It’s all about the money and how to settle this for the least amount possible. Google, like Apple, looks at the total picture. What's better for the company, pay lawyers millions to defend the lawsuit for years and possibly lose, or strike a deal with Sonos and admit no infringement. It’s what Apple eventually did with Samsung and then Qualcomm. 
    muthuk_vanalingamCarnage
  • Reply 9 of 16
    Time for a bunch of "independent" tech analysts to come out on social media and reddit to trivialise Sonos' claims into "rounded rectangle"-esque sound bites. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 16
    Have either Google or Amazon had a single original idea that has been a huge success?
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 11 of 16
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    Have either Google or Amazon had a single original idea that has been a huge success?
    Google: let's create a search engine that is more user friendly.
    Amazon: let's create an online shop that is more user friendly.

    No, I don't think either of them are that much original. But a lot of people like what they offer very much.
    Wgkruegermuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 12 of 16
    Have either Google or Amazon had a single original idea that has been a huge success?
    Why yes. For Amazon: online bookselling. Online retailing. Cloud services/AWS. Kindle. For Google, it is a search engine that actually works. The Chrome browser. Gmail. Google Docs. Android. Chromecast. Chrome OS. Seriously, throwing out stuff like that makes you look ... not very serious. In any event, Chromecast Audio and the Google Home speakers use Chromecast. Chromecast was introduced July 2013. (Your Daniel Eran Dilinger initially hinted that it was a ripoff of Apple's AirPlay and that it would be a technological and commercial failure ... and was wrong on both counts.) As for Amazon, their speakers use DLNA, the same protocol that you can use to mirror your Amazon Kindle screen on TV boxes and smart TVs, capability that Fire tablets have had since they were introduced in 2011. Google devices like their Xoom tablet - great hardware and software, but nonexistent app support including from Google who abandoned tablets in favor of rescuing Chromebooks (which eventually proved successful ... and we know they are a success because Apple wasn't bashing them when only 2-5 million Chromebooks were selling a year) - also originally used DLNA but that was also dumped for Chromecast. Samsung's multi-room audio products (Samsung Flow and Samsung Wireless) use a combination of DLNA and bluetooth. Sonos is just desperate and trying to stay in business. Their tech is outdated and their products too expensive. Sonos admitted in their lawsuit that Google sells more speakers in a few months than Sonos sells in a year, and Amazon in turn sells more speakers in a month - or at most two - than Google sells in a year. I would bet that Samsung sells more multi-room speakers than Google does also. They are going after Google first because Google has a bad reputation (over Android, then the Snowden stuff then the monopoly stuff then the 2016 election stuff) as a PR move. In terms of the merits all Google has to say is "we use the same technology in our speakers that we have been using to stream video and audio in Chromecasts since 2013" and the case is over. They would have a better case against Amazon in theory - as Amazon didn't develop their own protocol - but Amazon is still a very popular and well-liked company so a "lawsuit as PR pressure to force a settlement payoff to keep us in business" strategy isn't going to work nearly as well for them.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 13 of 16
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,338member
    Have either Google or Amazon had a single original idea that has been a huge success?
    Why yes. For Amazon: online bookselling. Online retailing. Cloud services/AWS. Kindle. For Google, it is a search engine that actually works. The Chrome browser. Gmail. Google Docs. Android. Chromecast. Chrome OS. Seriously, throwing out stuff like that makes you look ... not very serious. In any event, Chromecast Audio and the Google Home speakers use Chromecast. Chromecast was introduced July 2013. (Your Daniel Eran Dilinger initially hinted that it was a ripoff of Apple's AirPlay and that it would be a technological and commercial failure ... and was wrong on both counts.) As for Amazon, their speakers use DLNA, the same protocol that you can use to mirror your Amazon Kindle screen on TV boxes and smart TVs, capability that Fire tablets have had since they were introduced in 2011. Google devices like their Xoom tablet - great hardware and software, but nonexistent app support including from Google who abandoned tablets in favor of rescuing Chromebooks (which eventually proved successful ... and we know they are a success because Apple wasn't bashing them when only 2-5 million Chromebooks were selling a year) - also originally used DLNA but that was also dumped for Chromecast. Samsung's multi-room audio products (Samsung Flow and Samsung Wireless) use a combination of DLNA and bluetooth. Sonos is just desperate and trying to stay in business. Their tech is outdated and their products too expensive. Sonos admitted in their lawsuit that Google sells more speakers in a few months than Sonos sells in a year, and Amazon in turn sells more speakers in a month - or at most two - than Google sells in a year. I would bet that Samsung sells more multi-room speakers than Google does also. They are going after Google first because Google has a bad reputation (over Android, then the Snowden stuff then the monopoly stuff then the 2016 election stuff) as a PR move. In terms of the merits all Google has to say is "we use the same technology in our speakers that we have been using to stream video and audio in Chromecasts since 2013" and the case is over. They would have a better case against Amazon in theory - as Amazon didn't develop their own protocol - but Amazon is still a very popular and well-liked company so a "lawsuit as PR pressure to force a settlement payoff to keep us in business" strategy isn't going to work nearly as well for them.
    Hey linuxplatform,

    Didn't your mother ever yell down into your basement for you to use punctuation and paragraphs?
    jdb8167watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 14 of 16
    kkqd1337kkqd1337 Posts: 424member
    i've always been surprised sonos hasn't been forcibly acquired by google or apple or amazon.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 16
    Have either Google or Amazon had a single original idea that has been a huge success?
    Why yes. For Amazon: online bookselling. Online retailing. Cloud services/AWS. Kindle. For Google, it is a search engine that actually works. The Chrome browser. Gmail. Google Docs. Android. Chromecast. Chrome OS. Seriously, throwing out stuff like that makes you look ... not very serious. In any event, Chromecast Audio and the Google Home speakers use Chromecast. Chromecast was introduced July 2013. (Your Daniel Eran Dilinger initially hinted that it was a ripoff of Apple's AirPlay and that it would be a technological and commercial failure ... and was wrong on both counts.) As for Amazon, their speakers use DLNA, the same protocol that you can use to mirror your Amazon Kindle screen on TV boxes and smart TVs, capability that Fire tablets have had since they were introduced in 2011. Google devices like their Xoom tablet - great hardware and software, but nonexistent app support including from Google who abandoned tablets in favor of rescuing Chromebooks (which eventually proved successful ... and we know they are a success because Apple wasn't bashing them when only 2-5 million Chromebooks were selling a year) - also originally used DLNA but that was also dumped for Chromecast. Samsung's multi-room audio products (Samsung Flow and Samsung Wireless) use a combination of DLNA and bluetooth. Sonos is just desperate and trying to stay in business. Their tech is outdated and their products too expensive. Sonos admitted in their lawsuit that Google sells more speakers in a few months than Sonos sells in a year, and Amazon in turn sells more speakers in a month - or at most two - than Google sells in a year. I would bet that Samsung sells more multi-room speakers than Google does also. They are going after Google first because Google has a bad reputation (over Android, then the Snowden stuff then the monopoly stuff then the 2016 election stuff) as a PR move. In terms of the merits all Google has to say is "we use the same technology in our speakers that we have been using to stream video and audio in Chromecasts since 2013" and the case is over. They would have a better case against Amazon in theory - as Amazon didn't develop their own protocol - but Amazon is still a very popular and well-liked company so a "lawsuit as PR pressure to force a settlement payoff to keep us in business" strategy isn't going to work nearly as well for them.
    Ok. Not single original idea. 

    Thanks for confirming. 

    (In truth, I did stop reading after your first few lines since I felt starting to get a headache). 
    Wgkruegerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 16 of 16
    gordygordy Posts: 1,004member
    They should've known better...SMH
    watto_cobra
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