Apple to attend meeting promoting easy access to health data

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2020
An Apple representative is slated to attend a meeting on Monday held by the Carin Alliance, a nonpartisan group currently advocating to push through government policy that would allow fast, easy access to patient health information.




Ricky Bloomfield, Apple's clinical and health informatics lead, is scheduled to join a meeting at which attendees will discuss efforts to support a Department of Health and Human Services initiative on medical data interoperability, CNBC reports.

Proposed by the HHS in 2019, the proposal would modify rules governing access to health information, allowing patients to more easily obtain and share personal data. These provisions must first pass muster with the Office of Management and Budget, which is where the Carin Alliance comes in.

According to a press release (PDF link), the group seeks to "rapidly advance the ability for consumers and their authorized caregivers to easily get, use, and share their digital health information when, where, and how they want to achieve their goals." At the upcoming meeting, advocates will ask the OMB to release rule changes proposed by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) and Office of the National Coordinator for Health IT (ONC), as well as the 21st Century Cures Act: Interoperability, Information Blocking, and the ONC Health IT Certification Program. The group cites consensus reached during a public comment period.

Those in favor of the policy modifications seek to modernize America's health records system. Existing systems silo data and limit cooperative exchange between health care providers. Currently, patients looking to switch doctors or facilities, or share data with others, are typically required to request hard copies of medical histories. Data is often stored on physical media like CDs that are not easily transferrable. Others are denied access altogether, the report notes.

Proponents of the rule changes argue barriers that inhibit free movement between doctors and health institutions are proving detrimental to public health. Opposing voices, like medical records giant Epic, actively urge customers, like hospitals, to fight the proposals out of supposed concern for patient privacy.

Along with Apple's Bloomfield, more than 40 representatives from major medical and tech companies, including Microsoft, will take part in the gathering either in person or by phone, according to an attendee list released Friday (PDF link).

Bloomfield is a physician with a background in mobile technology who currently serves as pediatric hospitalist at Stanford Children's Health and an adjunct clinical assistant professor at Stanford University School of Medicine. He is currently working on technologies that allow users to carry health information on iPhone, the report said.

Apple has long been an advocate of making health data portable and in 2018 launched the Health Records feature on iOS. Built into the Health app, Health Records enables iPhone users to securely store and share medical data from participating healthcare providers. The effort debuted with support from 39 medical groups, later expanding to 75 backers in less than six months. Most recently, veterans gained access to the feature when the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs integrated support for Health Records in November.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 11
    That picture says more than a 1000 words about privacy concerns...
    edited January 2020 knowitall
  • Reply 2 of 11
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    This is not just a technical problem.   EHRs already exist and can be and are readily shared between healthcare providers and systems.   The only ones who can't get free, unredacted access to the records are the patients themselves and their care givers.

    The last two new physicians I have seen knew all about my health history before they ever saw me because they had access to multiple EHRs on me.

    Some would say that it is good thing.   But, like your FICA score, there is no assurance that it is accurate -- it is merely a record of what some corporation is saying about you.   In my case, if you looked at my EHR you would see that I had dyslipidemia, hypertension, heart palpitations, arthritis, and degenerative bone disease.   Fortunately, I am happy to report that I have none of those conditions.

    The problem stems from the fact that your health records (whether on paper or electronic) have never been your property but the property of the health care organization that created them -- so they can say anything they want to say.   And often, what they say (the diagnosis) was mostly created in order to get insurance to pay for something (a visit, a procedure, etc...).   And, while that has always been a problem, EHRs added a new wrinkle:  Just as Facebook can collect and sell information about you without your knowledge or consent, so can pharmacy benefit managers and healthcare systems -- and more recently tech companies for ai research.

    The sharing of EHRs is, at this point, no longer a technical issue but a sociological one:   Who can see your information?  Is it accurate?  Can it be corrected?  What if you do not want it released?
    watto_cobracornchip
  • Reply 3 of 11
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    When it isn't absolutely clear that the ‘patient’ has full control over this data and it isn't (physically
    ) possible to share the data by doctors and others with similar capabilities, without explicit authorization (of the ‘patient’), this is a very bad idea.

    edit: fix
    edited January 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 11
    knowitall said:
    When it isn't absolutely clear that the ‘patient’ is in demand and it isn't (physically
    ) possible to share the data by doctors and others with similar capabilities, without explicit authorization (of the ‘patient’), this is a very bad idea.


    This isn't the problem (as emergency care overrides consent and HCPs are able to request access to health data for their patients without requiring a specific authorisation by the patient.)

    The problem is that the patients themselves are largely walled off from their own health data. This is known to be a source of a few problems, such as incorrect diagnosis, and HCPs not having a clear understanding of the patient in time-critical scenarios (e.g. ER), this also gives rise to unnecessary costs in testing. On the lower-risk scale it also stymies patients from easily seeking out additional care, receiving cost effectively treatments, seeking second opinions or making more informed lifestyle decisions.

    Part of the rationale in keeping the records out of patients hands is because the quality of the record may also be poor and require significant interpretation, as one commenter noted a range of conditions may be falsely diagnosed to take advantage of incomplete insurance coverage. Another doctor would likely be able to recognise such tactics in the record, while a patient may see the conditions and make incorrect health decisions, or suffer a psychological impact from falsely believing they are very unwell.

    There is also the ability to limit the records to health care professionals, but allow the patient to carry them with them in a decentralised way (this would avoid the problem of hacking, as the records would not be centrally stored.)
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 11
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    As long as this country has a "for profit" health care system I cannot see how this very personal information will not end up in the hands of insurance companies, drug makers, advertising companies, who will all be to happy to exploit a persons health into cash. I can't say I know the answer but patients should be informed of their overall health and problems and not depend on information which may or may not have been added to their records. Tread lightly tech companies you often make a mess of things and this time your screwups will cost lives. 
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 11
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    spice-boy said:
    As long as this country has a "for profit" health care system I cannot see how this very personal information will not end up in the hands of insurance companies, drug makers, advertising companies, who will all be to happy to exploit a persons health into cash. I can't say I know the answer but patients should be informed of their overall health and problems and not depend on information which may or may not have been added to their records. Tread lightly tech companies you often make a mess of things and this time your screwups will cost lives. 

    Ooops!   Too late!

    To hospitals, EHRs were never about your health and always about profit:   limiting liability, increasing billings -- and, as we are now seeing, selling the data to others.
    spice-boywatto_cobracornchip
  • Reply 7 of 11
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    knowitall said:
    When it isn't absolutely clear that the ‘patient’ is in demand and it isn't (physically
    ) possible to share the data by doctors and others with similar capabilities, without explicit authorization (of the ‘patient’), this is a very bad idea.


    This isn't the problem (as emergency care overrides consent and HCPs are able to request access to health data for their patients without requiring a specific authorisation by the patient.)

    The problem is that the patients themselves are largely walled off from their own health data. This is known to be a source of a few problems, such as incorrect diagnosis, and HCPs not having a clear understanding of the patient in time-critical scenarios (e.g. ER), this also gives rise to unnecessary costs in testing. On the lower-risk scale it also stymies patients from easily seeking out additional care, receiving cost effectively treatments, seeking second opinions or making more informed lifestyle decisions.

    Part of the rationale in keeping the records out of patients hands is because the quality of the record may also be poor and require significant interpretation, as one commenter noted a range of conditions may be falsely diagnosed to take advantage of incomplete insurance coverage. Another doctor would likely be able to recognise such tactics in the record, while a patient may see the conditions and make incorrect health decisions, or suffer a psychological impact from falsely believing they are very unwell.

    There is also the ability to limit the records to health care professionals, but allow the patient to carry them with them in a decentralised way (this would avoid the problem of hacking, as the records would not be centrally stored.)
    All requests of information are allowed?
    Thats certainly not the case in the Netherlands because for example a company doctor is not allowed to get information of any doctor treating the ‘patient’ unless explicitly approved (by the ‘patient’).

    But if so, the problem is a lot bigger and the patients data rights must first be firmly established.

    Patients themself not able to get to the information is of course insane and has to be rectified. Its also a patients right to  clear all data and to request that no centralized health records are created.

    You mention privacy concerns, thats one thing, but the reality is that this kind of information is sold to the highest bidder, say insurance companies and all kinds of other companies seeking ways to monetize this. 
    Also, records made by other doctors are either completely discarded (because every doctor thinks his own measurements and diagnosis is the best)  or seen as completely and unquestionably true and so biasing (often in a very negative way) the professional opinion of the doctor reading it.
    And last, records can contain or obtain mistakes that can be deadly, thats why all data must be questioned and measured again, invalidating the whole purpose of such records.
    I would advice not to use them.  


    edited January 2020 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 8 of 11
    knowitall said:
    knowitall said:
    When it isn't absolutely clear that the ‘patient’ is in demand and it isn't (physically
    ) possible to share the data by doctors and others with similar capabilities, without explicit authorization (of the ‘patient’), this is a very bad idea.


    This isn't the problem (as emergency care overrides consent and HCPs are able to request access to health data for their patients without requiring a specific authorisation by the patient.)

    The problem is that the patients themselves are largely walled off from their own health data. This is known to be a source of a few problems, such as incorrect diagnosis, and HCPs not having a clear understanding of the patient in time-critical scenarios (e.g. ER), this also gives rise to unnecessary costs in testing. On the lower-risk scale it also stymies patients from easily seeking out additional care, receiving cost effectively treatments, seeking second opinions or making more informed lifestyle decisions.

    Part of the rationale in keeping the records out of patients hands is because the quality of the record may also be poor and require significant interpretation, as one commenter noted a range of conditions may be falsely diagnosed to take advantage of incomplete insurance coverage. Another doctor would likely be able to recognise such tactics in the record, while a patient may see the conditions and make incorrect health decisions, or suffer a psychological impact from falsely believing they are very unwell.

    There is also the ability to limit the records to health care professionals, but allow the patient to carry them with them in a decentralised way (this would avoid the problem of hacking, as the records would not be centrally stored.)
    All requests of information are allowed?
    Thats certainly not the case in the Netherlands because for example a company doctor is not allowed to get information of any doctor treating the ‘patient’ unless explicitly approved (by the ‘patient’).

    But if so, the problem is a lot bigger and the patients data rights must first be firmly established.

    Patients themself not able to get to the information is of course insane and has to be rectified. Its also a patients right to  clear all data and to request that no centralized health records are created.

    You mention privacy concerns, thats one thing, but the reality is that this kind of information is sold to the highest bidder, say insurance companies and all kinds of other companies seeking ways to monetize this. 
    Also, records made by other doctors are either completely discarded (because every doctor thinks his own measurements and diagnosis is the best)  or seen as completely and unquestionably true and so biasing (often in a very negative way) the professional opinion of the doctor reading it.
    And last, records can contain or obtain mistakes that can be deadly, thats why all data must be questioned and measured again, invalidating the whole purpose of such records.
    I would advice not to use them.  


    I'm sure regulations change from country to country as consent, its types and means of providing it are defined differently in law. However establishing a means of providing consent is not insurmountable or incompatible with privacy, especially on the forefront of technology. I see Apple as a company of sufficient resources to make such changes happen, much like the way they are working to further their financial and other medical services.
  • Reply 9 of 11
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    knowitall said:
    knowitall said:
    When it isn't absolutely clear that the ‘patient’ is in demand and it isn't (physically
    ) possible to share the data by doctors and others with similar capabilities, without explicit authorization (of the ‘patient’), this is a very bad idea.


    This isn't the problem (as emergency care overrides consent and HCPs are able to request access to health data for their patients without requiring a specific authorisation by the patient.)

    The problem is that the patients themselves are largely walled off from their own health data. This is known to be a source of a few problems, such as incorrect diagnosis, and HCPs not having a clear understanding of the patient in time-critical scenarios (e.g. ER), this also gives rise to unnecessary costs in testing. On the lower-risk scale it also stymies patients from easily seeking out additional care, receiving cost effectively treatments, seeking second opinions or making more informed lifestyle decisions.

    Part of the rationale in keeping the records out of patients hands is because the quality of the record may also be poor and require significant interpretation, as one commenter noted a range of conditions may be falsely diagnosed to take advantage of incomplete insurance coverage. Another doctor would likely be able to recognise such tactics in the record, while a patient may see the conditions and make incorrect health decisions, or suffer a psychological impact from falsely believing they are very unwell.

    There is also the ability to limit the records to health care professionals, but allow the patient to carry them with them in a decentralised way (this would avoid the problem of hacking, as the records would not be centrally stored.)
    All requests of information are allowed?
    Thats certainly not the case in the Netherlands because for example a company doctor is not allowed to get information of any doctor treating the ‘patient’ unless explicitly approved (by the ‘patient’).

    But if so, the problem is a lot bigger and the patients data rights must first be firmly established.

    Patients themself not able to get to the information is of course insane and has to be rectified. Its also a patients right to  clear all data and to request that no centralized health records are created.

    You mention privacy concerns, thats one thing, but the reality is that this kind of information is sold to the highest bidder, say insurance companies and all kinds of other companies seeking ways to monetize this. 
    Also, records made by other doctors are either completely discarded (because every doctor thinks his own measurements and diagnosis is the best)  or seen as completely and unquestionably true and so biasing (often in a very negative way) the professional opinion of the doctor reading it.
    And last, records can contain or obtain mistakes that can be deadly, thats why all data must be questioned and measured again, invalidating the whole purpose of such records.
    I would advice not to use them.  


    I'm sure regulations change from country to country as consent, its types and means of providing it are defined differently in law. However establishing a means of providing consent is not insurmountable or incompatible with privacy, especially on the forefront of technology. I see Apple as a company of sufficient resources to make such changes happen, much like the way they are working to further their financial and other medical services.

    Yes, Apple has considerable resources.   But the American healthcare system is riddled with systemic collusion, cartels, and regional & national monopolies and has smothered multiple efforts at reform for 50 years.  At this point even the most powerful -- such as the Amazon, JPMorgan & Berkshire coallition, even though immensely wealthy and powerful are approaching it so cautiously.
  • Reply 10 of 11
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    An interesting quote from CARIN (Creating Access to Real-Time Information) -- the organization hosting the conference and promoting digital patient access to the data healthcare systems hold on them:
    "Patients, their caregivers, and their care teams can now select from an array of tools and services to meet their needs versus relying solely on the health care system to share their data. HIPAA “locks” data with incumbents because the incumbents share only when it is in their interests to do so ... "

    And that has been my experience with the healthcare system (both as a patient and as an insider):   they share the data they hold on you when it is in their interests to do so.  In other words, healthcare records are owned by the healthcare system and they exist and are used for their benefit -- not yours.

    The analogy is FaceBook which probably knows more about you than you know about you.   And they use that information for their benefit rather than yours.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 11
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    More information on the CARIN meeting Apple & Microsoft will attend.

    Epic systems is against sharing data with patients:
    "“Epic’s focus is on saving lives and helping people get and stay well,” a company spokesperson said in an email. “Our goal is to work with HHS to help make the proposed rule a good one. We hope that the rule will safeguard privacy of data, especially for family members who will not know that their health information has been shared.”

    And, from Microsoft:
    '[an] ethos of openness endorsed by Nadella is now needed in the health-care industry, where a battle is raging over whether patients should be able to get easy access to their medical data and share it with the app makers of their choice."

    So that might be the major rub the healthcare industry has against open sharing of patient data with patients:   The patient might share it with organizations that are not in the "Good 'ol Boys" club.

    Microsoft health’s Peter Lee says medical data needs to be opened up so patients can get better access

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/26/microsofts-peter-lee-says-health-care-needs-to-let-patients-get-data.html




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