He's complaining about the DAC (Digital-Analog Converter). Basically he's confusing the capabilities of any software product manipulating digital audio with the quality of the headphone port.
So Neil, we should put a $300 DAC in every MBP and push the price up for everyone so that people who still listen to music with wires can have marginally better quality? Both my MBPs are on mute 99.9% of the time. But both of us should pay more so that you don't have to plug in a separate device to listen with your wires? Exactly what does the DAC have to do with the rest of your comments on music production and software? How does the DAC have anything to do with recording since it's output only? If I use $10k worth of equipment to record and output audio and use Garageband for production, what specifically is wrong with that?
Displaying ones ignorance in public is unbecoming. Go back to your guitar (something you are actually supremely good at). No one cares what you think about the new fangled computers.
C'mon you guys ridicule Samsung's specs being .001% slower than a comparable Apple spec, I am more likely to believe someone in the music industry over a tech nerd.
Nobody creating professional music, on any platform, relies on the internal DACs [nor can they] of the laptop/desktop/workstation they own.
My upcoming Audio Interface to replace my Focusrite Clarett is the Apogee Digital Ensemble. If he wants the best listening experience perhaps he should whine even more that Macs don't come with Near Field Studio Monitors and quality Subwoofer to boot?
And no amount of money will improve the tone of his vocal capabilities, at any time throughout his music career.
Neil Young does not know what he's talking about. I don't care if he's 100 years old or whatever, he's simply wrong and ignorant. It seems like he is just grumpy because his own efforts have flopped.
Nobody uses the internal DAC, you hook up an external interface, and those can range from a budget $100 interface to very pro interfaces costing thousands of dollars.
Macs have always been used for pro audio and that is still the case.
AI should, at a minimum, be embarrassed by this article and honestly should retract it.
The quotes in question are taken with an interview with the verge. AI, inexperience, didn’t link to the source which is just sketchy. Further, the quotes are taken out of context and do not accurately portray Neil Young’s comments. The complaint he has with the MBP is the built in audio out. He doesn’t think it is good enough for music production and he is 100% correct.
If you read the article he actually defends music writing and production in the MBP from a jackass interviewer that keeps trying to get him to trash it as a solution.
The article is linked in the story, has been since publication. The fact that he's talking about the DAC is addressed in the piece.
Edit - I will make it a bit larger, so it's more apparent.
Lastly you link to an article about Billie Eilish having her album produced in a bedroom in some attempt to prove Neil Young wrong. The irony being that the article lists the equipment used which include an external DAC and reference monitors..... So, the article actually backs Young's point. The built in DAC and audio output are not good enough for music production. I mean that is literally what he was saying; "So you have to use an external DAC and do a bunch of stuff to make up for the problems that the MacBook Pro has"
A person could make a reasonable argument that he is expecting way too much out of a MBP or that his language is needlessly hyperbolic. Totally legitimate points but you didn't.
Sorry, this article is just sloppy at best. Based on the comments on the article it's pretty clear readers didn't get that he was talking about sound out.
Then he is even more incompetent than before pointing that out.
You know I'm sure that you can export an audio file, even in 24 bit 96kHz, without having to use the Mac's DA converter. Then you can send it anywhere... even a nice Fisher-Price music player like he was involved in.
There is no need to use the Mac's DA circuitry at all!
And if you want to use external speakers to monitor while you're tracking or mixing, then you just use an audio interface that is infinitesimally smaller than the speakers or the Mac... IF you NEED to have incredibly perfect playback (which, unless you are in a sound-treated place like a studio wouldn't matter much).
I wouldn't use ANY built-in audio converters to record or mix any audio I plan on using on a track - Mac or PC.
He's complaining about the DAC (Digital-Analog Converter). Basically he's confusing the capabilities of any software product manipulating digital audio with the quality of the headphone port.
So Neil, we should put a $300 DAC in every MBP and push the price up for everyone so that people who still listen to music with wires can have marginally better quality? Both my MBPs are on mute 99.9% of the time. But both of us should pay more so that you don't have to plug in a separate device to listen with your wires? Exactly what does the DAC have to do with the rest of your comments on music production and software? How does the DAC have anything to do with recording since it's output only? If I use $10k worth of equipment to record and output audio and use Garageband for production, what specifically is wrong with that?
Displaying ones ignorance in public is unbecoming. Go back to your guitar (something you are actually supremely good at). No one cares what you think about the new fangled computers.
That was kinda rough to read. There are much better conversations to be had about digital music, like current mastering practices. No DAC is going to fix that.
Ha! Tim just did a shout out on the earnings call for all the Grammy winners who rely on Logic Pro and the Mac to create music. Seems like a simultaneous subtle dig at Young.
Ha! Tim just did a shout out on the earnings call for all the Grammy winners who rely on Logic Pro and the Mac to create music. Seems like a simultaneous subtle dig at Young.
I didn't listen to the earnings call, but that's funny!
Neil Young does not know what he's talking about. I don't care if he's 100 years old or whatever, he's simply wrong and ignorant. It seems like he is just grumpy because his own efforts have flopped.
Nobody uses the internal DAC, you hook up an external interface, and those can range from a budget $100 interface to very pro interfaces costing thousands of dollars.
Macs have always been used for pro audio and that is still the case.
Apple has also done a great job with Logic X.
That's an internal speaker, you have your physical limitations, of course it's primarily for everyday users who don't want to use anything externals.
That's like saying a toddler can't go MIT so they're the worst human beings ever.
The old fart can't even remember he won a Grammy for best rock song in 2011.
Not sure if Neil Young is being purposely deceptive to single out the MacBook Pro or if he is truly clueless that most PC motherboards and especially laptops are even worse. A professional musician will know to use an external USB/firewire/thunderbolt audio interface with any computer, whether it be a Mac or a PC, to make the "consumer quality" of the onboard sound completely irrelevant.
I use a Mac for music creation - but like most musicians - do not use the internal DACs for recording or playback. I leave that important task to external pro audio level devices/interfaces. I like Neil Young (and his hi-resolution hearing), and as a musician myself I respect his quest for the highest quality audio formats. However I would say his efforts would be better spent advocating multichannel audio than higher sample and bit rates. For example, I’d rather experience listening to a new band’s recording in a high quality surround sound format with a speaker and decoding system that reproduces it than the same recording in a stereo-only ULTRA high quality format. Omni directional speakers and object based formats are more exciting to me. Legacy recordings were nearly all recorded in stereo, the future should embrace support for multi channel recording and playback. Regardless, It all starts with the original recording format and engineering.
well, off to buy a PC which reportedly is far superior for music production...
As with Macs, a PC's built-in audio isn't going to be very good. That's why people who care about good sound on their PCs buy third-party sound cards, either installed in a PCIe slot or attached via USB.
Neil Young seems to have a knack for making a point while simultaneously missing it. Of course, the built-in DAC of a Mac isn't studio quality. Neither is the built-in DAC of any other computer. Yes, you need an external DAC for studio quality work. Which is why just about every professional musician uses external DACs - on their PCs as well as their Macs.
Talking about amateurs who are using built-in audio for their pet projects is a non-sequitor. These people are not releasing studio quality work. Most of them know it, and those that do decide to take their game up to the next level will either invest in a good DAC or will go lease time in a studio to make good quality recordings.
The funny thing is, that even if amateurs are using the internal DACs on their machines, that has nothing to do with the sound quality of the recording. That is determined by what goes INTO the machine via an ADC (which the MacBook Pro does not even HAVE, except behind the built-in mic array), or what is created by the internal virtual instruments.
There is just no way at all to make any sense whatsoever of this rant.
Rightfully so in my opinion, many people say that Steve Jobs killed music. Yes, he liberated us musicians; I can now do a lot of stuff on my MBP that would have required $$$ equipment just a few decades ago. But at the same time, he played a leading role in the demise of music to a "cheap" commodity.
As for the MacBook Pro, it used to cater to musicians and aficionados of high fidelity music right out of the box. The MBP used to sport an optical audio output and a CD drive.
I can understand that Apple dropped the CD drive to make their laptops smaller and increase their streaming revenues, but it has been the death of high fidelity. The days of visiting a store where the salespeople knew music and could steer you in interesting directions are rapidly dying. In turn, it is becoming increasingly difficult to purchase music in high fidelity aka CD's, particularly for those of us who try to support real jobs in brick and mortar businesses. And we all know that it's not the musicians who earn the big bucks off streaming.
As regards the dropping of the optical audio output, this is outright harassment to many of us who now have to daisy chain bunch of adapters to get a digital audio signal from our laptops to a high quality DAC / amplifier. Nothing more pleasing (NOT!!) than sitting on the couch in front of my exquisite speakers tweaking the mix of a song with a bunch of adapters dangling precariously off my lap where it used to be a simple glass fiber.
So the gist of this is that Neil Young doesn’t know how to hook up a decent DAC to a Mac... which is ironic as it’s easier on a Mac as most of them them are USB and Core Audio compliant size you don’t have to install software - unlike the driver nightmare with Windows.
Rightfully so in my opinion, many people say that Steve Jobs killed music. Yes, he liberated us musicians; I can now do a lot of stuff on my MBP that would have required $$$ equipment just a few decades ago. But at the same time, he played a leading role in the demise of music to a "cheap" commodity.
As for the MacBook Pro, it used to cater to musicians and aficionados of high fidelity music right out of the box. The MBP used to sport an optical audio output and a CD drive.
I realise that this bit is about home playback, but I'll note:
An S/PDIF optical out was in no way a "professional" audio interface. The optical protocol running via S/PDIF in the professional world is ADAT, with proper clocking between all of the devices. Macs supported neither.
As for home playback, that has LONG shifted to wireless playback, and AirPlay, which all Apple devices except for AirPods support, is lossless. The fidelity is not on Apple; it's on whoever makes the device you're streaming to.
I can understand that Apple dropped the CD drive to make their laptops smaller and increase their streaming revenues, but it has been the death of high fidelity. The days of visiting a store where the salespeople knew music and could steer you in interesting directions are rapidly dying. In turn, it is becoming increasingly difficult to purchase music in high fidelity aka CD's, particularly for those of us who try to support real jobs in brick and mortar businesses. And we all know that it's not the musicians who earn the big bucks off streaming.
Apple dropped optical drives from their machines YEARS before they bought into the streaming business.
Before then, THEY were the ones who saved the music industry and artists from oblivion due to rampant piracy. Apple decried and resisted the streaming model for as long as they could.
As regards the dropping of the optical audio output, this is outright harassment to many of us who now have to daisy chain bunch of adapters to get a digital audio signal from our laptops to a high quality DAC / amplifier. Nothing more pleasing (NOT!!) than sitting on the couch in front of my exquisite speakers tweaking the mix of a song with a bunch of adapters dangling precariously off my lap where it used to be a simple glass fiber.
Your argument is that a single USB cable is more "precarious" than an optical cable? In a world where wireless has been the norm for years?
I think Young is lamenting the general decline in music quality over the last 50 (and especially the last 10 or 20) years.
We've gone from professionally, carefully and meticulously arranged & produced music (that costs big bucks) to guys sitting in their livingrooms 'singing' along to the thump-thump of electronic rhythms.
The masters like Young are rightfully scornful of the amateurish stuff being generated today.
Comments
Nobody uses the internal DAC, you hook up an external interface, and those can range from a budget $100 interface to very pro interfaces costing thousands of dollars.
Macs have always been used for pro audio and that is still the case.
Apple has also done a great job with Logic X.
https://www.loopinsight.com/2020/01/28/neil-young-is-wrong-about-the-macbook-pro/
So is he seriously suggests to use a laptop speaker to challenge your average Hi-Fi boxes??
Is he serious? Or nobody assume that physics exist??
That's like saying a toddler can't go MIT so they're the worst human beings ever.
There is just no way at all to make any sense whatsoever of this rant.
As for the MacBook Pro, it used to cater to musicians and aficionados of high fidelity music right out of the box. The MBP used to sport an optical audio output and a CD drive.
I can understand that Apple dropped the CD drive to make their laptops smaller and increase their streaming revenues, but it has been the death of high fidelity. The days of visiting a store where the salespeople knew music and could steer you in interesting directions are rapidly dying. In turn, it is becoming increasingly difficult to purchase music in high fidelity aka CD's, particularly for those of us who try to support real jobs in brick and mortar businesses. And we all know that it's not the musicians who earn the big bucks off streaming.
As regards the dropping of the optical audio output, this is outright harassment to many of us who now have to daisy chain bunch of adapters to get a digital audio signal from our laptops to a high quality DAC / amplifier. Nothing more pleasing (NOT!!) than sitting on the couch in front of my exquisite speakers tweaking the mix of a song with a bunch of adapters dangling precariously off my lap where it used to be a simple glass fiber.
Before then, THEY were the ones who saved the music industry and artists from oblivion due to rampant piracy. Apple decried and resisted the streaming model for as long as they could.
I'm not following.