EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, overwhelmingly vote to push for charging cable standard

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 118
    larryalarrya Posts: 586member
    DAalseth said:
    elijahg said:
    While the US style plugs may be "elegant", they're actually pretty crap - especially the two prong no earth ones. If you stand on the cable near the plug, the prongs can snap off and leave live prongs stuck out. The sockets quickly wear out so that wall warts won't stay in the socket, and just drop out on the floor.
    Have you experienced any of this firsthand?

    I've lived in the US my whole life, over half a century, and have never come across a single instance of those scenarios.  Even electrical devices and wall sockets made well before I was born... nothing like what you describe.  Ever.

    Prongs snapping off... you must be talking about some other country, because the US citizenry would not stand for that kind of shenanigans.

    That is odd because I grew up in the US, lived there until I was 49, and I can tell you that @elijahg is spot on. the sockets do wear out quickly and regularly. I've moved into houses and the first thing we had to do was replace the wall sockets. That was both in Minnesota and Oregon. It is very easy to get hot and neutral reversed, most things still work, but the frame can end up hot. As far as snapping off prongs, well there have been a couple of instances I've seen. The only remedy was to replace the socket. It's usually more a function of a really cheap cord though.
    Loose outlets are a real thing, but the rest isn't.  In the US we also have switches and grounding (duh!).  I'm 52 and own a 20 year old house (no issues) and a 46 year old house (some loose outlets).  Replacing an outlet that you think is too loose takes 5 minutes and costs $1.99 (15A).
    shaminobaconstangfastasleep
  • Reply 62 of 118
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    Standardize your darn outlets first. Anyone who travels throughout Europe and Asia knows what I’m talking about l. I need to keep a bag full of adapters and a converters with me - talk about waste.
    baconstangGG1
  • Reply 63 of 118
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,164member
    Fatman said:
    Standardize your darn outlets first. Anyone who travels throughout Europe and Asia knows what I’m talking about l. I need to keep a bag full of adapters and a converters with me - talk about waste.
    Although there is no harmonised system across the EU (member states can decide which plugs and sockets they want to use) there are EU-wide standard plugs which guarantee a pretty much problem free ride in most of the EU (and the world).

    Within the EU, the Europlug and Schuko plugs are pretty much universal. Apart from that, the Europlug is also used in 135 countries worldwide and Schuko in 100 countries.

    Europlugs fit Schuko sockets without issue. 

    These two aren't the only two but that is normal given the time electricity has been around and the amount of countries/designs. The older the installation, the more likely you are to run into issues which aren't even real issues for the millions of people that live in those countries. And they won't take nicely to wholescale change to make life easier for occasional visitors. The EU will (and is) standardising  through normal business practices and almost everything we buy from international companies simply lists 'EU plug' as the connection type and nothing else is needed for the purchaser. That's how universal the system really is.
    shamino
  • Reply 64 of 118
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 401member
    hoodjd73 said:
    Just eliminate the charging port and go completely wireless. Problem solved. 
    That is what will happen.
  • Reply 65 of 118
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 401member


    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    The original poster is correct...7% of the world is not relevant.
  • Reply 66 of 118
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 690member
    Wait, aren’t all the new iPhones Qi compatible? So there’s the standard charger: just ship them with a Qi charging puck instead of a cable and plug in charger. 

    Don’t change anything else. The Lightning port is the “headphone jack” right?
  • Reply 67 of 118
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 401member

    lkrupp said:
    So whatever these idiots decide is the “standard” Apple just makes and adapter tp convert it to Lighting. Mic drops. And after the charging port, then what? Screen size, resolution, features. What if they standardize on Android. Don’t laugh. You never know what bureaucrats will do in the name of the people.
    Or a forked charger cord with lightning and whatever the EU decides on.
  • Reply 68 of 118
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 690member
    jimh2 said:
    hoodjd73 said:
    Just eliminate the charging port and go completely wireless. Problem solved. 
    That is what will happen.
    My 11 Pro Max is already wireless. Problem IS solved. Just ship them with a Qi puck. EOS. 
  • Reply 69 of 118
    jmc54jmc54 Posts: 207member
    mac_dog said:
    elijahg said:
    If you stand on the cable near the plug, the prongs can snap off and leave live prongs stuck out.
    Who stands on their charging cable? Ridiculous comment. 
    The same people that drop their iPhones on cement
  • Reply 70 of 118
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,563member
    I don't see the big deal here... EU iPhones will come with a "charge-only" micro-USB port next to the Lightning port. Problem solved.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 71 of 118
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    sflocal said:
    The EU should probably require all other electronic devices - from electric razors, battery chargers, etc... to all require USBc instead of proprietary ac-adapters before getting on Apple's case.

    Last time I checked... the EU decided micro USB was the best, which was actually the worst, most flimsy connection every.  I'm curious to see how Apple will respond to this.

    I think the Lightning connector is superior for a mobile device than even USBc.  Lightning is durable, very solid, and not prone to being damaged, whereas USBc - and the female port - is a bit more delicate.  

    That being said, I think Lightning came out when it did because USBc was not developed yet and Apple needed a replacement for their legacy 30-pin plug.  A part of me would like everything to be standardized to USBc as it would make my cable-management that much easier.  Just about everything else I use has been migrated to USBc now.
    It is clear you haven't read any of the documentation. The proposal doesn't target solely Apple or mobile phones. It targets a lot of device types. In reality, it is doing what you say it should do.

    Micro USB - at the time - was a valid alternative and has largely been a success story when looking at the problems back then. It was the industry that settled on that following some nudging by the EU to avoid each manufacturer from from trying to lock customers in to their own hard wired connectors.
    Can you point me to the documentation? I've been hunting but can't see anything about other devices. If I look at the e-waste that my family has produced in the last couple of years, very little of it is because someone has switched from lighting to USB-C
    The resolution that was voted on is linked in this AI article. It is this:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0070_EN.html

    I linked to another document in another thread last week that actually explained the technical observations and Apple's 92-page lobbying document against this proposal. I will try to find that thread. In the EU technical documentation, the words 'future proofing' were actually used. Now, that was a consultation document but it is evident that a lot of people writing in this thread simply haven't read anything on the subject before firing off.
    Ha, thanks. I should have checked the links in the article rather than hunting myself :smile: 
    This is the thread where I posted the other links:

    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/214372/apple-says-a-common-charger-would-handicap-innovation-inflate-waste/p1
    Thanks. I see what you mean about Apple's report ignoring the main issue. They focused on CO2 instead of volume of waste so it's no wonder it was rejected. I'm surprised Apple didn't put forth a more convincing argument.
  • Reply 72 of 118
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,587member
    elijahg said:
    While the US style plugs may be "elegant", they're actually pretty crap - especially the two prong no earth ones. If you stand on the cable near the plug, the prongs can snap off and leave live prongs stuck out. The sockets quickly wear out so that wall warts won't stay in the socket, and just drop out on the floor.
    Have you experienced any of this firsthand?

    I've lived in the US my whole life, over half a century, and have never come across a single instance of those scenarios.  Even electrical devices and wall sockets made well before I was born... nothing like what you describe.  Ever.

    Prongs snapping off... you must be talking about some other country, because the US citizenry would not stand for that kind of shenanigans.

    https://www.hunker.com/13414352/how-to-remove-a-broken-prong-stuck-in-the-outlet ;
    https://dfarq.homeip.net/prong-stuck-in-an-outlet-heres-the-fix/
    More of an Apple issue but: https://support.apple.com/usbadapter/exchangeprogram

    And yes I have experienced it. When using an Apple wall wart, I've had to wedge it in upside down so it won't fall out. Had this issue in several places in the US using the proper Apple adapter kit.
  • Reply 73 of 118
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,587member


    apple ][ said:
    The EU is not needed and is not relevant in the big scheme of things.
    Absolutely incredible — that's 28 European countries and over 500 million people (or 7% of the world population) you're talking about. You can't possibly be serious.
    He said the EU. He didn't say Europeans.
  • Reply 74 of 118
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,587member
    There are so many devices in every home that do (or could) run on DC power that perhaps building codes should be modified to provide DC power at every power outlet and this would ELIMINATE the need for AC/DC power converters for every future and existing device. But I forgot, that would require common sense.
    No, that would require someone who knows about electrical engineering. You wouldn't be able to run 5v everywhere without having 1/2" thick cables to provide enough current. So you'd need step-down transformers from a higher voltage (say 48v, because DC voltages over that are much more dangerous than AC). And you'd need to run new cabling throughout the house just for the 5v stuff. So you may as well just step down from 110/240VAC instead, with existing wiring.
    baconstang
  • Reply 75 of 118
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,587member

    mac_dog said:
    elijahg said:
    If you stand on the cable near the plug, the prongs can snap off and leave live prongs stuck out.
    Who stands on their charging cable? Ridiculous comment. 
    People that walk past the cable and accidentally stand on it? In the dark, perhaps? You know that no one in the history of the electric plug and socket has ever stood on a plug? Well you know better than the people that invented the Britsh plug then. Apparently.
  • Reply 76 of 118
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,587member
    ElCapitan said:
    seanj said:
    ElCapitan said:
    EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    WRONG. The U.K. is leaving today and won’t be accepting EU diktats anymore. It’s already been announced for example we won’t be adopting the EU’s ridiculous new copyright directive than will prevent a lot of YouTube, Facebook, Instagram postings.

    Not having any local mobile phone industry - we do the important stuff instead like ARM Holdings - is irrelevant. This is about consumers, and we will be able to buy things people in the EU aren’t, from Lightning port iPhones to powerful vacuum cleaners (yes the EU actually banned those!)

    Roll on Brexit!! :smiley: 
    Yeah, it must really suck (!) not to have the most powerful vacuum cleaners. Happy Hoovering!
    It was actually a British inventor (James Dyson) that took the EU to court over the directive, as they were being idiots  (as usual) and allowing vacuum cleaners with a low start speed/low energy use to have a "boost" button which doubled their energy use with a few percent more suck to pass as "green" and bypass the directive.
  • Reply 77 of 118
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,148member
    This is a typical protectionist action by EU parliamentarians. The Brits are lucky to have been able to escape from this heavy handed tactic.
    It’s not so much protectionist, but rather driven by the ‘save the planet climate buffoonery’ where they believe that this will reduce the number of connectors manufactured, which would hypothetically reduce CO2 output.  As these ‘foons’ are neither economic nor technological geniuses (major understatement) the desired outcome could be set back rather than advanced.  The EU continues it’s slide into irrelevancy.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 78 of 118
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,148member
    sbutler said:
    While I understand the goal and reducing waste, it does sound like this decision could reduce innovation. Apple switched to the lightning port because USB wasn't good enough to meet their strict design goals. How will the industry ever move beyond whatever "standard" they require? We haven't done a good job in the US getting rid of the QWERTY keyboard nor have we been able to transition to the metric system because we standardized on something that once ingrained is nearly impossible to change.

    Should we all standardize on using the same exact keyboard (no French layout and German layout and English layout)? or the same types of screens? or the same types of processors? or the same types of materials? or the same shape (so it could fit into a common shelf)?


    Yes, let’s all standardize to the lowest common denominator standard.  Then we’re all equal and everything is unicorns and flowers. 😜
  • Reply 79 of 118
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,164member
    elijahg said:
    ElCapitan said:
    seanj said:
    ElCapitan said:
    EU standardization like this tend to spill into the entire European market fast. That will also include the UK, as the UK don't have any mobile phone industry of their own, they basically just have to accept the EU standard. 

    WRONG. The U.K. is leaving today and won’t be accepting EU diktats anymore. It’s already been announced for example we won’t be adopting the EU’s ridiculous new copyright directive than will prevent a lot of YouTube, Facebook, Instagram postings.

    Not having any local mobile phone industry - we do the important stuff instead like ARM Holdings - is irrelevant. This is about consumers, and we will be able to buy things people in the EU aren’t, from Lightning port iPhones to powerful vacuum cleaners (yes the EU actually banned those!)

    Roll on Brexit!! :smiley: 
    Yeah, it must really suck (!) not to have the most powerful vacuum cleaners. Happy Hoovering!
    It was actually a British inventor (James Dyson) that took the EU to court over the directive, as they were being idiots  (as usual) and allowing vacuum cleaners with a low start speed/low energy use to have a "boost" button which doubled their energy use with a few percent more suck to pass as "green" and bypass the directive.
    Wasn't that case a fight against just the labelling? I thought all the 'eco' limitations remained in place.

    On the other hand it proved that EU decisions can be appealed and overturned. And also perfect the testing methods.
  • Reply 80 of 118
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,847member
    The fact that the EU could force Apple and others to adopt a universal connector standard is unbelievable.  Government has no role in telling companies what they can make and how they should make it.  I'd like to see Apple and Samsung just give the EU the proverbial finger.  Tell them, 'we're doing what we think is right for our businesses.  If you don't like it, we'll pull out of the EU market entirely."   
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