Although, if anyone was to do it right, I would put my bet on Apple!
I just don’t see how anyone can make a bendable unit that’s sealed against dust, liquid, etc. take a couple of sheets of paper, lay them flat so the edges meet, fold them gently, see how the edges don’t stay together? That’s with thin sheets of paper and they don’t stay together. I think this an impossible task to make the device.
Exactly. There's no escaping the reality of a three dimensional world. The outer surface of a folding screen will always want to tear away from the inner surface every time you fold the screen. Maybe there are materials that are flexible enough to not delaminate when you occasionally unfold and fold the screen, but throughout the normal use life of a phone? Say 3 years X 365 days X 10 open-then-close events. Thats 10,950 fold-unfolds. Is there a material that can do that without visibly wearing out at the crease?
At its announcement last year, the Mate X had been through over 100,000 folds in lab conditions. That was Gen 1. Gen 2 should be presented this month.
Although, if anyone was to do it right, I would put my bet on Apple!
I just don’t see how anyone can make a bendable unit that’s sealed against dust, liquid, etc. take a couple of sheets of paper, lay them flat so the edges meet, fold them gently, see how the edges don’t stay together? That’s with thin sheets of paper and they don’t stay together. I think this an impossible task to make the device.
Exactly. There's no escaping the reality of a three dimensional world. The outer surface of a folding screen will always want to tear away from the inner surface every time you fold the screen. Maybe there are materials that are flexible enough to not delaminate when you occasionally unfold and fold the screen, but throughout the normal use life of a phone? Say 3 years X 365 days X 10 open-then-close events. Thats 10,950 fold-unfolds. Is there a material that can do that without visibly wearing out at the crease?
At its announcement last year, the Mate X had been through over 100,000 folds in lab conditions. That was Gen 1. Gen 2 should be presented this month.
Part of the problem with the first version was that it the Lab conditions were not real world, and the real world was where it failed miserably.
For those who can't fathom why anyone would want a folding screen, have you no imagination? The single most limiting factor of smartphones is the screen size. Why do you think Phablets caught on? If someone can figure out a usable (and durable) way to increase the screen size without increasing the device size or compromising the usability that could be huge.
The big issue with folding the screen on the outside of the device is scratches. As I understand it, the screen is plastic, meaning it would likely get horribly scratched if it was constantly exposed to everything we keep in our pockets, purses & bags. even a screen protector would be difficult - most of the good protectors are actually glass which won't bend enough to be useful in this application.
Although, if anyone was to do it right, I would put my bet on Apple!
I just don’t see how anyone can make a bendable unit that’s sealed against dust, liquid, etc. take a couple of sheets of paper, lay them flat so the edges meet, fold them gently, see how the edges don’t stay together? That’s with thin sheets of paper and they don’t stay together. I think this an impossible task to make the device.
Exactly. There's no escaping the reality of a three dimensional world. The outer surface of a folding screen will always want to tear away from the inner surface every time you fold the screen. Maybe there are materials that are flexible enough to not delaminate when you occasionally unfold and fold the screen, but throughout the normal use life of a phone? Say 3 years X 365 days X 10 open-then-close events. Thats 10,950 fold-unfolds. Is there a material that can do that without visibly wearing out at the crease?
At its announcement last year, the Mate X had been through over 100,000 folds in lab conditions. That was Gen 1. Gen 2 should be presented this month.
This reviewer liked it, but noted that the screen on the exterior was still going to be exposed to abrasion and scratches, and there was some noticeable ripples.
Considering how long it was delayed, availability only in China, and the various excuses for the delays, Huawei should have just gone back to the drawing board.
What I’m waiting to see is all the people on sites like this who completely dismiss and trash foldable displays as useless and pointless who will then turn around and gush about how great they are once Apple makes one.
I won't ever 'gush' over an Apple folding phone (or any folding phone for that matter). I don't want one, need one and nor am I willing to shell out ££££ for one in the short, medium or long term.
I think I'd almost prefer 2 edge-to-edge displays over a single, large folding display. You can have glass covers instead of scratchy plastic, and you don't have the screen fold to worry about. iOS could treat it like a dual monitor setup and run full screen versions of two apps. The bezels would be so small I'm not sure I would be bothered. The only disadvantage is not being able to display a large web page or document without the bezels getting in the way; but after all, it's a phone. I have far more use cases for 2 separate apps than editing a large document.
I’ve been thinking exactly this for a while. Make two glass screens side by side and with no space between. Sure, there may be a very tiny gap between them, but that’s much better than sacrificing screen quality by using a material that bends. || If anyone can do it well, it’s Apple. ||
Given Apple's track record of cranking out fragile first-gen devices, I would think thrice about buying a folding iPhone, at least until they borrow enough innovations from Samsung's iterations to make it durable. That is to say, until Apple "does it right".
And even Apple couldn’t make it flexible enough to wrap around your butthurt.
Although, if anyone was to do it right, I would put my bet on Apple!
I just don’t see how anyone can make a bendable unit that’s sealed against dust, liquid, etc. take a couple of sheets of paper, lay them flat so the edges meet, fold them gently, see how the edges don’t stay together? That’s with thin sheets of paper and they don’t stay together. I think this an impossible task to make the device.
Exactly. There's no escaping the reality of a three dimensional world. The outer surface of a folding screen will always want to tear away from the inner surface every time you fold the screen. Maybe there are materials that are flexible enough to not delaminate when you occasionally unfold and fold the screen, but throughout the normal use life of a phone? Say 3 years X 365 days X 10 open-then-close events. Thats 10,950 fold-unfolds. Is there a material that can do that without visibly wearing out at the crease?
At its announcement last year, the Mate X had been through over 100,000 folds in lab conditions. That was Gen 1. Gen 2 should be presented this month.
Based on the radius of the 'fold' on the MateX, that's not really a fold, that's a bend. I suspect they chose to mount the screen on the outside surface because mounting it inside requires a much smaller radius hence a visible crease forming on the bendable screen. And as mentioned by a lot of people, an outside mounted screen just doesn't make good design sense.
I'm not saying material scientists won't eventually invent a material durable enough to make a true folding screen feasible, just that they aren't there yet. And there's still the problem of the scratch resistance and consumer acceptance of a soft plastic touchscreen as opposed to one of rigid glass. [A quick and dirty search yields a site putting a "plastic point" at #2 on the Mohs hardness scale. That's just 1 up but 8 down from the softest and hardest ratings.]
There seems to be some huge misunderstanding about the exterior, plastic screen of the Mate X.
Virtually all smartphones have an exterior screen. Virtually all of them end up in cases and require some form of screen protectionism.
They get scratched and if you drop one it is liable to break in a very spectacular way.
Amazingly, there are lots of people out there using cracked glass screens because they can't afford the repair.
If you buy a folding phone like the Mate X, you are informed right out of the box that the screen is 'delicate'. It comes with a special case to protect the whole unit.
It is a luxury, premium article, not a rugged phone. The target audience is very, very likely to be able to afford a new screen if it ever does get scratched but if you use the supplied case you shouldn't have any problems.
To know how durable the hinge mechanism and the display really are we must observe it in the real world. That's where we are today.
There have been some cases of broken/damaged screens but if they are selling in the hundreds of thousands we should get an idea of how robust (or not) they really are over the coming months.
The plastic screen shouldn't be a concern though if you treat it as advised on the box.
No one needed or asked for a car phone without a keyboard.or stylus either
A keyboard-free touch surface has obvious UI advantages. A foldable phone has almost no such advantages, especially when material science is involved.
Virtually all of the original 'complaints' about UI have been debunked by people who have actually used the Mate X.
Those complaints were by people who had not touched the device. Number one was the aspect ratio in full screen mode for YouTube, Netflix, gaming etc. The reality is that the screen ratio isn't even a problem. Size wise it is like viewing on a tablet for photos, email, text etc but with the advantage of being able to fold it away when not needed.
On top of that, portrait photography allows the subject to see himself/herself while finding the pose and there is no main or front camera compromise. That's a win/win whichever way you look at it.
As is being able to use two apps simultaneously (three on the Fold) without sacrificing screen real estate.
Half unfolded, the phone also acts as its own support.
Obviously price, first gen, durability are concerns for regular buyers but these phones aren't aimed at regular buyers.
Awesome to see Apple innovation working hard - can't figure out though why no one else would go down this path but glad to see Apple taking the lead here.
Complexity. It isn’t easy to engineer such mechanisms. More so make such mechanisms reliable.
To be perfectly honest I wouldn’t rush out to buy any folding phone until they have proven themselves. I the end that folding stress isn’t good. Also I wouldn’t be surprised to see Apple go the folding route in the iPad first. I don’t see a huge advantage for a folding cell phone, however a tablet that folds up to paper back size, protects the screen and is reliable would sell like hot cakes.
What I’m waiting to see is all the people on sites like this who completely dismiss and trash foldable displays as useless and pointless who will then turn around and gush about how great they are once Apple makes one.
It’s not surprising that Apple is at least looking into this - they would be remiss not to. We’ll see if anything comes of it. As many people here have posted, Apple puts more stock in doing something well than in doing it first. Samsung did it first and we saw how well that turned out! Beyond the technical hurdles of making it functional and durable, part of the problem with such a display is making it usable. The entire operating system and user interface are designed around a single display and simply folding it out doesn’t make for a very functional device. I’m sure the interface team at apple is already working on this, though.
Im not one to dismiss a folding iPhone entirely, however I do believe there is a better argument for a folding iPad. A folding iPad solves the problem of the big glass screen being exposed while at the same time making the iPad easier to transport. If none is already easy to handle, iPad has issues.
Given Apple's track record of cranking out fragile first-gen devices, I would think thrice about buying a folding iPhone, at least until they borrow enough innovations from Samsung's iterations to make it durable. That is to say, until Apple "does it right".
Welcome to AI. Guess you missed the whole Samsung fiasco.
What I’m waiting to see is all the people on sites like this who completely dismiss and trash foldable displays as useless and pointless who will then turn around and gush about how great they are once Apple makes one.
It’s not surprising that Apple is at least looking into this - they would be remiss not to. We’ll see if anything comes of it. As many people here have posted, Apple puts more stock in doing something well than in doing it first. Samsung did it first and we saw how well that turned out! Beyond the technical hurdles of making it functional and durable, part of the problem with such a display is making it usable. The entire operating system and user interface are designed around a single display and simply folding it out doesn’t make for a very functional device. I’m sure the interface team at apple is already working on this, though.
Dude…
People are trashing knockoff Apple companies that crapped out foldable iPhoneys so idiots can say they did it first. (Not directed towards you.)
Just like how Samsung crapped out Galaxy Edge and curved TVs after Apple patented a curved display. Like how Samsung crapped out Galaxy Watch when they saw Apple Watch coming. Some iKnockoff morons even think Samsung invented the smartwatch.
Apple does things right and does major things first all the time.
Comments
For those who can't fathom why anyone would want a folding screen, have you no imagination? The single most limiting factor of smartphones is the screen size. Why do you think Phablets caught on? If someone can figure out a usable (and durable) way to increase the screen size without increasing the device size or compromising the usability that could be huge.
The big issue with folding the screen on the outside of the device is scratches. As I understand it, the screen is plastic, meaning it would likely get horribly scratched if it was constantly exposed to everything we keep in our pockets, purses & bags. even a screen protector would be difficult - most of the good protectors are actually glass which won't bend enough to be useful in this application.
This reviewer liked it, but noted that the screen on the exterior was still going to be exposed to abrasion and scratches, and there was some noticeable ripples.
Considering how long it was delayed, availability only in China, and the various excuses for the delays, Huawei should have just gone back to the drawing board.
Not ready for primetime.
Customer: „Err.... why would you want to sell me a phone that brings more disadvantages than advantages. Uhm. Actually no advantage?”
smartphone manufacturer: “Err. Because we can. Oh, and they can.” (Pointing at another smartphone manufacturer)
No one needed or asked for a car phone without a keyboard.or stylus either
They already know this intuitively, but they have the cash and the time to prove it.
I'm not saying material scientists won't eventually invent a material durable enough to make a true folding screen feasible, just that they aren't there yet. And there's still the problem of the scratch resistance and consumer acceptance of a soft plastic touchscreen as opposed to one of rigid glass. [A quick and dirty search yields a site putting a "plastic point" at #2 on the Mohs hardness scale. That's just 1 up but 8 down from the softest and hardest ratings.]
Virtually all smartphones have an exterior screen. Virtually all of them end up in cases and require some form of screen protectionism.
They get scratched and if you drop one it is liable to break in a very spectacular way.
Amazingly, there are lots of people out there using cracked glass screens because they can't afford the repair.
If you buy a folding phone like the Mate X, you are informed right out of the box that the screen is 'delicate'. It comes with a special case to protect the whole unit.
It is a luxury, premium article, not a rugged phone. The target audience is very, very likely to be able to afford a new screen if it ever does get scratched but if you use the supplied case you shouldn't have any problems.
To know how durable the hinge mechanism and the display really are we must observe it in the real world. That's where we are today.
There have been some cases of broken/damaged screens but if they are selling in the hundreds of thousands we should get an idea of how robust (or not) they really are over the coming months.
The plastic screen shouldn't be a concern though if you treat it as advised on the box.
Those complaints were by people who had not touched the device. Number one was the aspect ratio in full screen mode for YouTube, Netflix, gaming etc. The reality is that the screen ratio isn't even a problem. Size wise it is like viewing on a tablet for photos, email, text etc but with the advantage of being able to fold it away when not needed.
On top of that, portrait photography allows the subject to see himself/herself while finding the pose and there is no main or front camera compromise. That's a win/win whichever way you look at it.
As is being able to use two apps simultaneously (three on the Fold) without sacrificing screen real estate.
Half unfolded, the phone also acts as its own support.
Obviously price, first gen, durability are concerns for regular buyers but these phones aren't aimed at regular buyers.
People are trashing knockoff Apple companies that crapped out foldable iPhoneys so idiots can say they did it first. (Not directed towards you.)
Just like how Samsung crapped out Galaxy Edge and curved TVs after Apple patented a curved display. Like how Samsung crapped out Galaxy Watch when they saw Apple Watch coming. Some iKnockoff morons even think Samsung invented the smartwatch.
Apple does things right and does major things first all the time.