I'm hoping that my first ARM MacBook Pro doesn't heat up like a furnace like my brand new, maxed out 16-inch model. Whenever I run an Arcade game or even a third party app like Warcraft, the fans spin up like the world is ending.
It’s a laptop. It’s too small for full speed usage of CPU & GPU at the same time, for extended periods of time. Why Apple doesn’t want to sell something more appropriate for power users (and moderate gamers) anymore... [sigh]
Yes, I agree! And, I find it strange!
Apple is welcoming and encouraging gamers on its mobile platforms but does little or nothing to support & encourage them on its desktop type lines. But, just like one needs a Mac to do "real work", one needs a desktop type device to do "real games".
It's not that there is ANYTHING wrong with Apple's mobile lineup. Rather, they are simply ignoring and missing a large market that they could probably serve well.
It's just too obvious a missed opportunity for them -- I suspect that they have a long term game plan in place that is unfolding in the background as we speak.
That would be an odd fit in apple line up. A compact tower with one full size gpu, and at minimum a six core cpu, at a fair price, who might en up cannibalizing the imacs, or even the mac mini.
Desktop Gamers are people who cares a lot about value, and the whole pc gaming community is closely tied to tech nerds (taking the role of influencers), who tends to have a mistrust against prebuilt pc because they often use cheap component, while having a premium price that isn't justified . Brands like Rog, corsair, or cooler master are getting far more social media engagement than alienware (dell) or Omen (HP).
If apple want to take a pie of that market, they have two disadvantage : -1. A lesser gaming legaçy than windows (you don't get to play a fair amount of hits from the past decades) wich isn't going to get better with the move to ARM.
-2. Getting gamers away from windows/consoles will be hard if the premum price doesn't directly influence the gaming experience. Consoles already get the benefits of being easy to use, while having exclusive games (along with a legaçy). One of the pc big selling point is being bleeding edge when it comes to power and features (freesync, G-sync, day one on the new gpu...)
Having listed all that, it's going to take something extraordinary if Apple want to make gaming on an arm mac something more than an afterthough, and without screwing up the Mac mini/ iMac.
While a tiny percentage of extreme power users may be able to benefit from a minimal performance boost by switching from Intel to ARM processors, a larger percentage of us that use some Windows-only software (Microsoft Project to name one) and thus need Bootcamp will be left in the cold. I have owned many Macs (currently a top-spec 2017 MacBook Pro 15"), and I reluctantly will stop buying Macs if Apple halts the Windows compatibility feature. The current Macs are fantastically powerful in the higher models, and a switch to ARM is not necessary.
While Bootcamp usage is high in the AppleInsider reading population, it is decidedly not with the vast majority of the Apple user base.
So, it's more like "while a tiny percentage of extreme power users may be left in the cold from a shift to ARM, the larger percentage that don't or have used the iPhone as a gateway to the the Mac will benefit from the performance boost."
It used to be a much higher percentage as more Windows users were switching over. But the usage seems to have dropped. But a lot of Mac gamers, such as my daughter and here friends, still use Bootcamp for that, as we still can’t keep up with pc gaming. I wonder how big that crowd is? They can’t use Parallels for that. I’ve tried.
The service data that I've been collecting for years suggests that it is about 2% and declining right now, even including enterprise.
I am not surprised. Anecdotally, Two years ago I bought a nice DEll PC i7 with a 1080 GTX for PC games and gave up on Boot Camp for that purpose. I have the 4K monitor the PC uses wired so it can also be a second monitor for my iMac 5K which it is, 90% of the time. Ironically quite a few of my older Macs boot into Windows but I didn't create the partitions nor install Windows 10 Pro with Boot Camp Utility, I did it all manually since older Macs are a pain to try that with especially with no Optical drives (I removed them all). I do put the Boot Camp Drivers on them of course. They are all used for MySQL and controlled with Microsoft's DTR for the Mac.
I just don't know if I can switch to ARM Mac as I do rely on Intel processors for running Windows and ubuntu in VMs. Having ARM would require that the Virtual machine be running in an environment emulating the Intel processor which we all know slows down significantly.
I guess I'll buy the latest Intel MacBook before ARM comes out.
If you're one of the few that needs to run Windows as a dual-boat or VM and are using an 12" MacBook to do it, then I'd say that's a good idea, but these machines will also exist after ARM-based MacBooks or MacBook Airs arrive, so you can always wait then and get one at a discount. Or, you could just use an Intel-based MacBook Pro after Apple includes ARM on their low-end Macs.
By the time they'd even consider moving over their high-end Macs to ARM this won't even be an issue.
I upgraded my mid-2015 to a late-2019 MacBook Pro and both had/have the fastest processor available at the time of purchase. The difference between the VM speeds is negligible so those who are concerned have nothing to worry about. Just purchase the last Intel based Mac you need and know it will last you 4+ years at which time you will not need Windows or the ARM computers are at least equal at running VM's.
Bigger issue will be GPUs. Does anyone have info on how graphics will be impacted by the change?
Considering that Apple is crushing it with their own GPU designs in the A-Series chips, I would imagine that they would have at least their own integreted graphics.
Intel should be ashamed and embarrassed by how it's been running as a company the past few years. AMD has whomped on Intel's CPU performance, and in due time, Intel will lose Apple as a very visual customer because it could keep its own house in order.
Apple has shown it has the chops to make its own CPU and do it better than Intel. It's inevitable that Apple will switch over its desktop/laptop offerings to ARM one day. Apple will no longer have to wait for whatever Intel is coming up with.
I'm one of those few users that depend on Windows running on my Mac for development. I hope that Apple (and VMWare) still provide something similar for us users. I know it will still be many years before ARM reaches the high-end of Apple's offerings, but it will happen.
I'm hoping to buy a 2020 iMac and I'm sure that it will be my last Intel Mac by the time it comes around to buying another one. Will be interesting to see what happens.
When Apple decided to move from PowerPC (RISC) to X86 (CISC), they had a strategy to move ALL of their computers to the X86 platform. It took a couple of years for the roll out of the hardware products, but it took a few more years for the software apps to be re-written from the ground up to X86, Microsoft being one of the hold outs.
Apple DOES NOT HAVE a complete platform of ARM based processors that they can roll out a completely new line of Macs that are ALL based on ARM processors. PERIOD.
I highly doubt Apple is going to muddy up and confuse everyone by having some Macs running ARM and other Macs running X86. it will cause more confusion with the application developers and that's going to cause even more confusion.
Apple has already stated that they have no intentions of replacing X86 Based Macs with ARM. The only public statement they've made is that they are doing to AUGMENT X86 Macs with ARM for either enhancements or new features, which they have done by using these T chips to add security features, controllers, security features, Fingerprint ID sensing. So, they have reached their obligation and will continue doing so. Until Apple makes a public statement that they are switching to ARM based Macs ditching X86, anything discussed is PURE speculation, rumor, or guessing. There is NO validity to it UNTIL Apple says there is..
Microsoft is just dabbling in ARM processors for Windows devices, and they can do that because they failed in the smartphone industry with Windows phones on ARM. They failed at their first attempt with their ARM based Surface Products. I see them as just dabbling with Windows based ARM computers, but time will tell if they are successful at it and because they have over 90% market share in the installed base of computers, they can afford to dabble in it. Apple can't afford to dabble in it and fail.. They don't have a big enough market share to split off some of their Mac computers to ARM and their others running X86.
Now, what's MORE plausible to me is a new designed laptop with a touch screen that's ARM based running a future version of iOS that adds more features that are in macOS. THAT I can see them possibly doing since iOS is their OS for ARM based computers. But running macOS on ARM for only a few or one selected units? Nah, don't be silly.
When writing articles, the paragraph is probably the most important unit of composition.
The author gives Apple's previous two CPU transitions as an indicator for a successful ARM transition. But he's kind of ignoring the fact that in those two prior transitions, the CPU being moved to was significantly faster than the CPU being migrated from. This then allowed the use of emulation software ("Rosetta") to let users continue using "legacy" software without too much of a performance penalty. ARM is not significantly faster than Intel chips, so how will Apple handle this transitional period in which users need/want to continue using legacy software?
With respect to software getting transitioned to ARM, the author picks only the low-hanging fruit: sure, for software actively for sale, its developers have an economic incentive to move it to ARM, but what about truly legacy stuff or even open-source applications with little community support? Developers are a big group, enthusiastic Mac user group. We use all sorts of open source software - be it IDEs, web servers, compilers, Java VMs, virtualization software, etc. Can you imagine how slow an emulated VirtualBox would be trying to, itself, emulate an x86 version of Windows?
Comments
Desktop Gamers are people who cares a lot about value, and the whole pc gaming community is closely tied to tech nerds (taking the role of influencers), who tends to have a mistrust against prebuilt pc because they often use cheap component, while having a premium price that isn't justified . Brands like Rog, corsair, or cooler master are getting far more social media engagement than alienware (dell) or Omen (HP).
If apple want to take a pie of that market, they have two disadvantage :
-1. A lesser gaming legaçy than windows (you don't get to play a fair amount of hits from the past decades) wich isn't going to get better with the move to ARM.
-2. Getting gamers away from windows/consoles will be hard if the premum price doesn't directly influence the gaming experience. Consoles already get the benefits of being easy to use, while having exclusive games (along with a legaçy). One of the pc big selling point is being bleeding edge when it comes to power and features (freesync, G-sync, day one on the new gpu...)
Having listed all that, it's going to take something extraordinary if Apple want to make gaming on an arm mac something more than an afterthough, and without screwing up the Mac mini/ iMac.