Apple A-series are SoC's. not really needed in a desktop system... More than likely it'll be a stand-alone CPU dubbed the X-series, and of course G-series for GPU.
Yeah, I could never see how people would think Apple would use a beefed-up A-series branded chip in a Mac. Especially after they started coming out with plenty of other letter monikers of SoCs and SiPs.
If Apple is shipping in 8 to 12 months, the processors, boards, basically all of components are done and they are just working on getting the mass production processes worked out now. The design is in early validation stages. The SoC has to be in pilot production now.
If true parts have to leak sometime in the next 3 to 4 months.
Actually, it's rumored that Apple is already shipping hardware capable of running the OS to developers.
I don't think people who are chomping at the bit to move to ARM Macs have really thought out the whole process.
Yup. Most didn't live through the last switch - wasn't great by any means. Was a nightmare for most.
This isn't remotely an accurate assessment for "most."
The truth of the matter is, nearly everybody made the transition. It wasn't seamless, but it wasn't a "nightmare" by any stretch of the imagination. The OS9 to macOS X one was worse in terms of customer bleed, and that was minor.
I don't think people who are chomping at the bit to move to ARM Macs have really thought out the whole process.
Yup. Most didn't live through the last switch - wasn't great by any means. Was a nightmare for most.
Didn't live thorough the last switch? So we all died, but then came back to life? Like our stacks were resleeved? Or you mean that everyone who wants Apple to eschew the limitations of Intel and x86 weren't alive in 2006, so you're saying that we're all—at most—14 years old?
I remember the transition being phenomenally well done for what it involved. Not only was it executed quickly, but well ahead of Jobs previously stated schedule. Today things are much different… and all for the better. If you like your Intel Mac you can keep your Intel Mac as it's not a PPC Mac running up against thermal limits. There's also countless modifications to SW that will make this much better for users. From bitcode to shared resources with other Apple OSes to app stores to ARM development that will not only make Macs better but increase their user base. I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
We can believe ARM MAC possible because the ARM architecture performance has progressed well, chip design/fab improved lot and in last few years Apple built excellent chip design team to make it happen. Also ,with own 5G networking chip design team, future MACs will have 5G enabled on them. It is about competing(stay ahead) in market place with continued improving cost,performance and schedule.
As far as Software porting, Apple have done it before and now with all the resources on hand, it can be easier and faster than before.
MAC is a cosmetics company.
Or a media access controller. Yeah I don’t get why this guy always spells it wrong. Years now.
Many times I said.. This so called ARM Mac is not for professional customer.
For the professional customer, you will get Intel or AMD CPU Mac.
This is only for the regular consumer level. Who does not need professional application which heavily rely on x86 code base.
Most on consumers can use iOS apps to do their daily working or entertainment purpose.
That is the reason, Apple drop 12' Macbook. Too expensive, not much better performance then iPad Pro.
I wonder if Apple introduce iMac with A series CPU then they will solder RAM & SSD as well or not. I think they will.
Also I wonder order to handle 4K or 5K panel, maybe A series CPU will get AMD GPU like Intel's hades canyon?
So what you are saying is the X86 ‘code base’ will need to exist forever? Just like the headphone jack and SCSI? Microsoft, Adobe, and the other ‘professional’ developers are totally incapable of coding for a new platform? Really? I wonder why Office and Adobe CS exist for iOS then.
I don't think you understand between x86 code base application functionality and iOS app version.
MS Office in iOS app does not have full functionality as x86 base code application and this reflect on other application as well.
Even Apple's own office application has different functionality.
As I said, most of consumer market does not need full blown office
software. So simpler version of MS office or Apple product is more then
enough.
The MS never intend to develop iOS office will replace x86 code base application. iOS app is just sidekick as you don't have to turn on your laptop for just reading e-mail or write some simple note. This goes to Adobe too.
If MS must porting all functionality to ARM code base require lots of money pour on development and QA cycle.
So far currently there is no reason to do so. it just not cost effective for business perspective.
Most of professional such as photo, video or music industry do not need bleeding edge software version.
Most of enterprise customer, PC(desktop and/or laptop) is just business expense. So not just end user porting to iOS or ARM code is also cost them very much..
Such as financial industry has their own x86 code base in house developed application must port to ARM code. This cost a lot.
That's why most of big company still use mainframe with so old Cobol and/or assembler code base application still running at night.
The banking industry also use heavily mainframe because in house old code base converting cost just too high and no one in management write the bill to stock holder.
Some times they don't have source code either.. So order to converting to newer code base application require reverse engineering which also cost very high..
These days, hardware is cheap. So cheap, no one want to converting anything. Just keep running and develop around with newer code.
So for the Apple just keep make x86 PC to professional for higher price and little cheaper ARM PC to most of consumer base market with higher profit margin.
There will be no resistance switch from x86 PC to ARM base PC to consumer market compare to professional and enterprise market.
It just different market. I think within 10 years, most of kids never know what is x86 PC means.
Look at next gen game console, it just cheap and good enough for the play games to most consumer. Compare to bleeding edge high end video card PC game player.
My guess is that we are going to have 2 types of computers soon.
The first will be ARM based, made for consumers. Will run locked down versions of Operating Systems. Windows also has an ARM version and this will allow ARM computers to be their own subset of devices. Chromebooks were the precursor here.
The second will be x64 based machines made for developers and will be truly open & made for experimentation.
This will only cause a split in the world of computing, and may ultimately be bad for us all. It may allow the creation of platforms, for only consumers.
But then again I remember the debacle with Thin Clients. It is only human nature to explore, learn & want to do more. Though I do hope ARM at-least works as a stepping stone
My guess is that we are going to have 2 types of computers soon.
The first will be ARM based, made for consumers. Will run locked down versions of Operating Systems. Windows also has an ARM version and this will allow ARM computers to be their own subset of devices. Chromebooks were the precursor here.
The second will be x64 based machines made for developers and will be truly open & made for experimentation.
This will only cause a split in the world of computing, and may ultimately be bad for us all. It may allow the creation of platforms, for only consumers.
But then again I remember the debacle with Thin Clients. It is only human nature to explore, learn & want to do more. Though I do hope ARM at-least works as a stepping stone
I would be surprised beyond belief if an ARM-based Mac did run Xcode.
"Cheaper parts equate to cost structure flexibility and, perhaps, more competitive product prices."
Without a doubt, "perhaps" is the word of the day here. We will never see competitive prices from Apple. As a lifelong Apple user and fan, I am starting to grow weary of their price-gouging and am edging closer to giving in to a windows machine.
If Apple does this, I wonder if they'll license the x86 instruction set from Intel? That would make the most sense for at least the first few years until devs can update software. It will take YEARS for this to play out if they did. Of course, they could use a "Fat Binary" like they did during the PPC-x86 transition... That way, the app bundle will be able to support both platforms. My question would be about performance. No ARM chip will be able to outperform the Xenon chips in the Mac Pro and iMac Pro. What about those systems? Will developers have to keep using Fat Binaries forever because of that? There are just so many questions, that I don't know if it makes sense or not.
It would be pretty easy for Apple to build a high performance ARM based Mac Pro. They would just need to buy and integrate Fujitsu’s new processors. Beyond that server grade ARM chips already exist in multiple forms.
Many times I said.. This so called ARM Mac is not for professional customer.
For the professional customer, you will get Intel or AMD CPU Mac.
This is only for the regular consumer level. Who does not need professional application which heavily rely on x86 code base.
Most on consumers can use iOS apps to do their daily working or entertainment purpose.
That is the reason, Apple drop 12' Macbook. Too expensive, not much better performance then iPad Pro.
I wonder if Apple introduce iMac with A series CPU then they will solder RAM & SSD as well or not. I think they will.
Also I wonder order to handle 4K or 5K panel, maybe A series CPU will get AMD GPU like Intel's hades canyon?
Actually it is the professional that will benefit the most. Consider how AMDs Threadrippers perform, ARM will provide even higher core densities at lower power draw. So let’s imagine the next Mac Pro sporting 32 or 64 cores running at 200 to 300 watts.
Also I’m not sure most people understand how badly Intel has failed with its processors over the last 5 years. They are basically a joke with performance that sucks and that is before you address the various mitigation’s.
My guess is that we are going to have 2 types of computers soon.
The first will be ARM based, made for consumers. Will run locked down versions of Operating Systems. Windows also has an ARM version and this will allow ARM computers to be their own subset of devices. Chromebooks were the precursor here.
The second will be x64 based machines made for developers and will be truly open & made for experimentation.
This will only cause a split in the world of computing, and may ultimately be bad for us all. It may allow the creation of platforms, for only consumers.
But then again I remember the debacle with Thin Clients. It is only human nature to explore, learn & want to do more. Though I do hope ARM at-least works as a stepping stone
I would be surprised beyond belief if an ARM-based Mac did run Xcode.
XCode is just another app and would run fine on any computer with suitable resources.
This highlights one evil reality in this thread and that is the mistaken thought held by many that X86 is some sort of superior architecture. The opposite is the reality, it is really a crap solution that is the result of tacking on features over a couple of decades. It is like what we have in X 86 is well thought out.
"Cheaper parts equate to cost structure flexibility and, perhaps, more competitive product prices."
Without a doubt, "perhaps" is the word of the day here. We will never see competitive prices from Apple. As a lifelong Apple user and fan, I am starting to grow weary of their price-gouging and am edging closer to giving in to a windows machine.
Switch to Linux! For my usage it is good enough and avoids the problems seen in Windows.
Comments
BTW, bought a new iPad recently???
Most didn't live through the last switch - wasn't great by any means.
Was a nightmare for most.
The truth of the matter is, nearly everybody made the transition. It wasn't seamless, but it wasn't a "nightmare" by any stretch of the imagination. The OS9 to macOS X one was worse in terms of customer bleed, and that was minor.
I remember the transition being phenomenally well done for what it involved. Not only was it executed quickly, but well ahead of Jobs previously stated schedule. Today things are much different… and all for the better. If you like your Intel Mac you can keep your Intel Mac as it's not a PPC Mac running up against thermal limits. There's also countless modifications to SW that will make this much better for users. From bitcode to shared resources with other Apple OSes to app stores to ARM development that will not only make Macs better but increase their user base. I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
The first will be ARM based, made for consumers. Will run locked down versions of Operating Systems. Windows also has an ARM version and this will allow ARM computers to be their own subset of devices. Chromebooks were the precursor here.
The second will be x64 based machines made for developers and will be truly open & made for experimentation.
This will only cause a split in the world of computing, and may ultimately be bad for us all. It may allow the creation of platforms, for only consumers.
But then again I remember the debacle with Thin Clients. It is only human nature to explore, learn & want to do more. Though I do hope ARM at-least works as a stepping stone