Apple, Google team on 'contact tracing' smartphone software to combat spread of COVID-19

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,350member
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests....   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    Where was that announced? I think you're guessing based on incomplete information aren't you? By the way it's a smart model for States to set up their own test sites based on their own "hotspots". Local governments are more in tune to their residents and able to respond far faster. Federal agencies are overrun with competing politics and petty grudges which slows down responses.

    What percentage of population testing do you consider "comprehensive"? Iceland has done better at that than anyone else but still has only been able to test close to 10% of its populace. IMO China would have had the best chance to do so with their ability to reliably track and securely lockdown their citizens but came nowhere close to "comprehensive testing" as I would consider it to be. It looks to me that like in China and Wuhan our US hotspot hive is clearly New York City. Otherwise across the country the expected massive surge of infections and deaths expected just a couple weeks ago has not happened.  Fingers crossed.

    So here's the issue as I see it: Are you comfortable with completely cutting off the ability of New Yorkers to leave the city? That would go a long way towards choking off the spread.  Call in the National Guard and secure all highways and rail lines out of the city. No one in and no one out until those "comprehensive tests" show the danger is eliminated. So George, should we have already done that, turned NYC into a secured island weeks ago like China did with Wuhan? That's how China got it under control.  Is that one of the right things to do in your opinion? And no it is not too late, the spread of the disease is not nearly over. Most new infections and the majority of deaths are related to NY, relatively speaking, as far as reports indicate.
    edited April 2020
  • Reply 22 of 42
    What are they doing here? Collaborating to reinvent the wheel? Government of Singapore already uses a similar app - TraceTogether - https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/ Government of India also has a similar app - Aarogya Setu - https://www.mygov.in/aarogya-setu-app/
    hentaiboy
  • Reply 23 of 42
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests...  We've been waiting for comprehensive U.S. testing since January and all we hear is:  It's coming...

    We didn't prepare and, after 3 monts we are still not prepared.   Existing testing resources have been stretched to the limit and cannot expand further without additional resources being developed.   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    What countries today have had comprehensive testing? Singapore, Taiwan, and S Korea are my best guesses. And what is the medical definition of "comprehensive" in terms of the percentage of the population to be tested? >50%?
  • Reply 24 of 42
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,350member
    GG1 said:
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests...  We've been waiting for comprehensive U.S. testing since January and all we hear is:  It's coming...

    We didn't prepare and, after 3 monts we are still not prepared.   Existing testing resources have been stretched to the limit and cannot expand further without additional resources being developed.   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    What countries today have had comprehensive testing? Singapore, Taiwan, and S Korea are my best guesses. And what is the medical definition of "comprehensive" in terms of the percentage of the population to be tested? >50%?
    No country but Iceland has come close to even 10%. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 25 of 42
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,483member
    mazda 3s said:
    Sheesh, that didn't take long. Can't we all just drop the cynicism for just ONE day and appreciate that these two are working together for the common good? I mean, damn!

    I feel your pain. I really don't know what it's going to take to put the general populace back into the mode of civic responsibility coupled with empathy over self-centeredness coupled with sociopathic cynicism. Life is a gift, not a burden.
    edited April 2020 gatorguyroundaboutnowmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 42
    lostkiwilostkiwi Posts: 639member
    Here in NZ our Prime Minister said yesterday our government are in talks with the Singapore Government to use their 'Tracetogether' app.  Apparently the project is going to be outsourced by Singapore.  App information is here: https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg  

    It would be hard to find a country that has been more successful at fighting SARS-CoV 2 than Singapore.  Looking at the app it seems they have put a lot of effort into preserving privacy but still making it as efficient as possible.  I guess the only problem would be getting users to download the app in sufficient numbers to make it work.  Works fine in a small country like Singapore with high trust in its government - the U.S...... maybe not so much.

    EDIT just went through the Apple/Google Contact Tracing Bluetooth Specification.  Page 3 goes in their 'Advertisement Payload' then details 'Advertising Behaviour' and 'Advertising Flow'.
    Well, screw that then.  I will be doing everything I can to opt out/disable this on my devices.  There is no need to make money out of this crisis, it is not like Apple or Google are facing layoffs/financial issues because of the pandemic.  I am aware that they have shareholders to keep happy... but really?  This is just bad taste.

    That said, if my government does use the previously mentioned opensourced app then I will be using it.  Assuming it is free of advertising crapiness.
    edited April 2020 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 42
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    gatorguy said:
    GG1 said:
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests...  We've been waiting for comprehensive U.S. testing since January and all we hear is:  It's coming...

    We didn't prepare and, after 3 monts we are still not prepared.   Existing testing resources have been stretched to the limit and cannot expand further without additional resources being developed.   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    What countries today have had comprehensive testing? Singapore, Taiwan, and S Korea are my best guesses. And what is the medical definition of "comprehensive" in terms of the percentage of the population to be tested? >50%?
    No country but Iceland has come close to even 10%. 
    That's surprising to me. I checked Wikipedia: Iceland population 364k!
  • Reply 28 of 42
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,295member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Hope it’s not going to be one of those situations where Apple has a bug in their API and Google uses it to opt folk in, even though they opted out. 
    Of course it’d be you being so snarky right off the bat. Get over yourself and just enjoy the reason these companies are working together. Just once. For one freaking day. 
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 29 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gatorguy said:
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests....   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    Where was that announced? I think you're guessing based on incomplete information aren't you? By the way it's a smart model for States to set up their own test sites based on their own "hotspots". Local governments are more in tune to their residents and able to respond far faster. Federal agencies are overrun with competing politics and petty grudges which slows down responses.

    What percentage of population testing do you consider "comprehensive"? Iceland has done better at that than anyone else but still has only been able to test close to 10% of its populace. IMO China would have had the best chance to do so with their ability to reliably track and securely lockdown their citizens but came nowhere close to "comprehensive testing" as I would consider it to be. It looks to me that like in China and Wuhan our US hotspot hive is clearly New York City. Otherwise across the country the expected massive surge of infections and deaths expected just a couple weeks ago has not happened.  Fingers crossed.

    So here's the issue as I see it: Are you comfortable with completely cutting off the ability of New Yorkers to leave the city? That would go a long way towards choking off the spread.  Call in the National Guard and secure all highways and rail lines out of the city. No one in and no one out until those "comprehensive tests" show the danger is eliminated. So George, should we have already done that, turned NYC into a secured island weeks ago like China did with Wuhan? That's how China got it under control.  Is that one of the right things to do in your opinion? And no it is not too late, the spread of the disease is not nearly over. Most new infections and the majority of deaths are related to NY, relatively speaking, as far as reports indicate.
    You ask:  Where was the defunding of testing sites announced?   NPR for one place:
    "local officials are disappointed the federal government will end funding for coronavirus testing sites this Friday. ...  In the Philadelphia suburbs, Montgomery County has a drive-through site that has tested 250 people a day since March 21.   It has been a very successful site. We are hoping by the time it closes Friday afternoon that we will have tested a little over 5,000 individuals,"

    While its true that local, state and federal agencies need to work together, that doesn't mean the federal part can dump their responsibilities on the states and walk away.

    It is probably Trump's way of getting "the numbers" down so he can justify ending social distancing mandates.  That might help the stock market and his chances at reelection.   But it'll kill a lot of Americans.

    And, since you ask:   adequate testing is enough to identify those wondering the streets infecting other people.   China did it and it worked.   Korea did it and it worked.   Germany did it and it worked.   Others as well.   Unfortunately we are following the Italy's model of limited testing and our infection rate has surpassed even theirs.  We're #1!

    And your proposal that New York CIty be quarantined is a bit ridiculous.   But, without being able to test and screen for those infected, your idea might be the only way.  But then what do you propose we do when New Orleans, Chicago, Las Angeles and several other cities get over run?   Should we quarantine the entire country?

    I suggest that it would be far better if we started following the model of countries that have done this successfully and:
    1)  Get off our butts and get our testing resources in order -- Gottlieb (former FDA head) estimates we need double or triple the number of test we are doing now)
    2)  Initiate contact tracing of all those shown to be infectious.

    That sounds a whole lot better and cheaper to me than quarantining New York.


    edited April 2020 dewme
  • Reply 30 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    GG1 said:
    GG1 said:
    This is great!   Contact tracing is pretty much what every country has used where the spread of the virus has been successfully managed.  Social distancing is helpful but it is temporary and can only slow the spread rather than control it.

    B U T:
    The prerequisite is having sufficient community wide testing to make it worthwhile -- because you first have to identify the infected and infectious person before you can trace their prior contacts.

    Unfortunately Scott Gootlieb, former FDA head, reports that we will have to expand our testing by 2, 3 or even 4 times what it is now to do that effectively.   But, our existing resources are already maxed out and unable to supply more than the million tests it is currently completing.  And there appear to be no plans to expand those resources.

    And further:   The federal government has begun to defund and cancel community based testing and there are rumors that they have declared that there will be no widespread testing.   IF TRUE (and of this administration it is a credible rumor) then contact tracing will be of limited use and we will have to accustom ourselves to living (or dying) with this virus as it pops up and spreads throughout the country.

    Think about it:  How did the virus enter this country and become an epidemic?   A handful of people entered the country and each of them infected several others -- and nobody even knew it was here -- until it was becoming an epidemic.  That scenario will be playing out throughout the nation -- spreading from New York to Kyokuk unseen....

    Hopefully, for the sake of the American people, the federal government quickly establishes the resources necessary to produce and operate the additional testing that is required.  And, that they not only fund community testing sites but help to establish them.   Otherwise....


    Dr. Birx said that ELISA testing is not ready yet. When ready, everyone (not previously tested) will get tested.

    If I understand correctly (I'm not in the medical community), the current testing is for symptomatic people, and that may be drawing down due to the reduction of new (symptomatic) cases. The ELISA tests are for asymptomatic people, and that will ramp up when the test is ready. (significantly, i hope/expect). I absolutely want to take an ELISA test.

    Other countries don't make excuses they make tests...  We've been waiting for comprehensive U.S. testing since January and all we hear is:  It's coming...

    We didn't prepare and, after 3 monts we are still not prepared.   Existing testing resources have been stretched to the limit and cannot expand further without additional resources being developed.   But the federal government is pulling back funding for tests...  Go figure. 
    What countries today have had comprehensive testing? Singapore, Taiwan, and S Korea are my best guesses. And what is the medical definition of "comprehensive" in terms of the percentage of the population to be tested? >50%?

    Ask the ones you listed.   That was easy.
  • Reply 31 of 42
    Hello bro!
  • Reply 32 of 42
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,350member
    lostkiwi said:

    EDIT just went through the Apple/Google Contact Tracing Bluetooth Specification.  Page 3 goes in their 'Advertisement Payload' then details 'Advertising Behaviour' and 'Advertising Flow'.
    Well, screw that then.  I will be doing everything I can to opt out/disable this on my devices.  There is no need to make money out of this crisis, it is not like Apple or Google are facing layoffs/financial issues because of the pandemic.  I am aware that they have shareholders to keep happy... but really?  This is just bad taste.
    It's not "advertising" as in commercial ads. Advertising refers to your device announcing its presence to the receiving Bluetooth beacon. Poor tho technically accurate choice of words. You won't be served ads and the two companies will not be seeing any revenue from it so put down your pitchfork.
    https://www.apple.com/covid19/contacttracing
    edited April 2020 GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingamlostkiwiIreneWmaltz
  • Reply 33 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lostkiwi said:
    ...
    It would be hard to find a country that has been more successful at fighting SARS-CoV 2 than Singapore.
    ...

    Although I understand that that may end -- they have a lot of transient workers living in dormitories that could quickly explode their numbers.
    But I agree -- so far they have done a very good job.
  • Reply 34 of 42
    lkrupp said:
    mazda 3s said:
    Sheesh, that didn't take long. Can't we all just drop the cynicism for just ONE day and appreciate that these two are working together for the common good? I mean, damn!
    I understand your position but realize many here don’t trust Apple or Google, or any tech company, when it comes to privacy. I personally think it’s way overblown especially in the case of the average individual. I think there’s way too much paranoia over the motives of Google and others. Bottom line it’s about advertising and marketing, not about creating personal dossiers on individuals for use in nefarious ways. That’s the realm of the dark web, hackers, identity thieves, and other douchebags. Google just wants to know what ads to send you and how much they can charge advertisers for doing it.

    Nice to read a very balanced post from you in a long long time!!! Kudos.
  • Reply 35 of 42
    No because Google robbed Apples idea to even have the privilege to be in your knockoff. This should be Apple exclusive software. Sigh. Except they didn't. Google was already working on Android for years before iOS came out. iOS is written mostly in C++ with Objective C for applications. Android is a hybrid of C/C++ (owing to it being a Linux distro) and what can charitably be called Java. While Google did copy the UX/UI elements longstanding legal precedents in every developed country - the U.S., the EU, Japan etc. - state that such is entirely legal so long as you do not copy it to the extent that one cannot distinguish one product from another. Yes, Apple takes advantage of such precedents themselves when they appropriate things from the competition. And ... if Apple had anywhere near the dominance in mobile that their fans wanted them to have - one that rivaled Microsoft's dominance in laptops/desktops - Apple would have been hammered by antitrust lawsuits domestic and abroad and broken up years ago. The antitrust boards were only able to take limited action against Microsoft because Microsoft only made the OS. The computers themselves were manufactured by any number of companies. And Microsoft could also truthfully claim that it wasn't their fault that Apple was pricing their way out of the market and not providing the sort of software tools that most businesses and consumers needed. But Apple with a 90% global marketshare with them being 100% in control of the hardware, OS and services? And the only "alternative" being those terrible Windows 8 type devices that Microsoft wasted billions trying to push on people, destroying an excellent company in Nokia in the process? Yeah, the DOJ totally gives them the AT&T/Standard Oil treatment years ago. Apple fans should be absolutely that the Google Play store sold $8 billion in apps last quarter because that is the only thing that keeps the feds (or the EU courts) from forcing Apple to split into 3 companies, which is something that Elizabeth Warren - absolutely certain to be attorney general should Biden be elected - wants to do already. So while you are free to maintain some personal grudge against Google and its products, you are not entitled to your own fantasy world set of facts.
    edited April 2020
  • Reply 36 of 42
    lostkiwilostkiwi Posts: 639member
    gatorguy said:
    lostkiwi said:

    EDIT just went through the Apple/Google Contact Tracing Bluetooth Specification.  Page 3 goes in their 'Advertisement Payload' then details 'Advertising Behaviour' and 'Advertising Flow'.
    Well, screw that then.  I will be doing everything I can to opt out/disable this on my devices.  There is no need to make money out of this crisis, it is not like Apple or Google are facing layoffs/financial issues because of the pandemic.  I am aware that they have shareholders to keep happy... but really?  This is just bad taste.
    It's not "advertising" as in commercial ads. Advertising refers to your device announcing its presence to the receiving Bluetooth beacon. Poor tho technically accurate choice of words. You won't be served ads and the two companies will not be seeing any revenue from it so put down your pitchfork.
    https://www.apple.com/covid19/contacttracing
    Thanks GG. If that is indeed the case then I will place my pitchfork into storage, for now.
    That interpretation never occurred to me - perhaps there should be a bit more of an explanation in the summary of the use of the word 'advertising' in the covering documentation.

    That being said it seems the new system is a ways off - I heard mid-May, so the open sourced Singapore method could be a valuable method in the interim.
    edited April 2020 gatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 42
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 303member
    lostkiwi said:
    Here in NZ our Prime Minister said yesterday our government are in talks with the Singapore Government to use their 'Tracetogether' app.  Apparently the project is going to be outsourced by Singapore.  App information is here: https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg  

    It would be hard to find a country that has been more successful at fighting SARS-CoV 2 than Singapore.  Looking at the app it seems they have put a lot of effort into preserving privacy but still making it as efficient as possible.  I guess the only problem would be getting users to download the app in sufficient numbers to make it work.  Works fine in a small country like Singapore with high trust in its government - the U.S...... maybe not so much.

    EDIT just went through the Apple/Google Contact Tracing Bluetooth Specification.  Page 3 goes in their 'Advertisement Payload' then details 'Advertising Behaviour' and 'Advertising Flow'.
    Well, screw that then.  I will be doing everything I can to opt out/disable this on my devices.  There is no need to make money out of this crisis, it is not like Apple or Google are facing layoffs/financial issues because of the pandemic.  I am aware that they have shareholders to keep happy... but really?  This is just bad taste.

    That said, if my government does use the previously mentioned opensourced app then I will be using it.  Assuming it is free of advertising crapiness.
    Advertising is the Bluetooth LE term for sending out a beacon, it has nothing to do with monetization. It should be pretty clear from the technical references in the paper. Or, just google it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 42
    lostkiwilostkiwi Posts: 639member
    IreneW said:
    lostkiwi said:
    Here in NZ our Prime Minister said yesterday our government are in talks with the Singapore Government to use their 'Tracetogether' app.  Apparently the project is going to be outsourced by Singapore.  App information is here: https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg  

    EDIT just went through the Apple/Google Contact Tracing Bluetooth Specification.  Page 3 goes in their 'Advertisement Payload' then details 'Advertising Behaviour' and 'Advertising Flow'.
    Well, screw that then.  I will be doing everything I can to opt out/disable this on my devices.  There is no need to make money out of this crisis, it is not like Apple or Google are facing layoffs/financial issues because of the pandemic.  I am aware that they have shareholders to keep happy... but really?  This is just bad taste.


    Advertising is the Bluetooth LE term for sending out a beacon, it has nothing to do with monetization. It should be pretty clear from the technical references in the paper. Or, just google it.
    GG has already advised the same thing earlier in the responses.

    Also, I did Google Bluetooth advertising - 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_advertising

    The second link https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/bluetooth-low-energy-it-starts-with-advertising/ did indeed describe how the terms refers how it means allowing devices to broadcast information defining their intentions, as you say.
  • Reply 39 of 42
    mazda 3s said:
    Sheesh, that didn't take long. Can't we all just drop the cynicism for just ONE day and appreciate that these two are working together for the common good? I mean, damn!
    Hahaha I agree with you. Look at their profile pictures—they are all very cynical faces 😂
  • Reply 40 of 42
    iHyiHy Posts: 7member
    can I sue somebody I now have proof I have got infected from? 
    Will this data be available to LEO?

    so many questions ( so many cans of worms) ...
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