Will the COVID-19 disaster sink Apple's premium hardware?

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  • Reply 21 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member

    elijahg said:
    snow66 said:
    While the media focusses on Apples shortcomings with Siri, Apple is reaching far beyond cloud based voice assistants.  
    Yeah so far beyond the cloud that asking Siri to do something as simple as pause or change the volume regularly causes a 5 second delay and then "just a moment"... then 5 seconds later "please hold the line"... another 5 seconds "nope connection is broken". If that was on-device that would never be a problem. Siri is embarrassing.
    Yes, one of the things Apple really needs to work on improving. But it is well-positioned to do that, given that it has powerful on-device hardware and has Siri deployed across a billion users.  
    Hey are the going to release that new Game Playing Apple TV You were talking about a few months back.   Seems like they really missed an opportunity with so many people home now - especially the kids.  Disney plus reports 50 million Activasions.   Did Apple TV even get 10 million paid yet?
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  • Reply 22 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member


    elijahg said:
    snow66 said:
    While the media focusses on Apples shortcomings with Siri, Apple is reaching far beyond cloud based voice assistants.  
    Yeah so far beyond the cloud that asking Siri to do something as simple as pause or change the volume regularly causes a 5 second delay and then "just a moment"... then 5 seconds later "please hold the line"... another 5 seconds "nope connection is broken". If that was on-device that would never be a problem. Siri is embarrassing.
    Yes, one of the things Apple really needs to work on improving. But it is well-positioned to do that, given that it has powerful on-device hardware and has Siri deployed across a billion users.  
    We’ve been  hearing for years that Siri would get better but it still sucks.
    elijahgdysamoria
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  • Reply 23 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member
    marcissuz said:
    Too long of storytelling without any legit basis. More seems like a Paid Justification to defend Apple . The Royal Apple Army Brigade Paid Defender. Otherwise nobody has time to write this much. Failed to convince . 
    It’s just the usually diatribe with a couple paragraphs at the beginning and end but it doesn’t bring anything to the topic of how Apple will do the next few quarters due to CoronaVirus.   Really What good is Faceid if everyone has to wear a mask.   I’m not saying drop it but they definitely need the TouchIs through the screen.

    akthough I do think Masks that would match watch bands would be great- just not too expensive.
    elijahgdysamoria
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  • Reply 24 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member

    ElCapitan said:
    First of all there is a rude awakening across the planet of the insanity of shipping production of goods and services offshore, and putting all eggs in the Chinese basket.  The effect of the COVID-19 crisis is that suddenly all countries starts to act like countries again, and global sourcing has to a large extent collapsed. 

    With the upcoming financial depression we just have seen the start of, people are going to first cut on subscriptions; cloud services, music, media streaming, software subscriptions, then anything premium.

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    If you look at Apple and think there's tremendous value in the manual labor assembly jobs contracted out to Foxconn in China, and then discount the 80,000 workers Apple directly employees in the USA (many are retail; ~20,000 are professional designers, engineers, and office staff working in California, Texas, FL, etc facilities), plus the 450,000 supplier employees that work for Apple in the US, and 1.5M developers + who work in content and apps directly attributable to Apple's platforms, there's something wrong with how you are looking at things. 

    Apple is doing its valuable creative, design, engineering, planning, product work domestically and shipping the routine low-value jobs elsewhere because nobody in the US is qualified to run precision manufacturing and basic labor and there's nowhere to do it and no supply chain to support it. 

    You really need to reconsider what you think about jobs.

    Also, you're right that working people who can suddenly not feed themselves or pay rent are going to be cutting services and other luxuries. But Apple's installed base includes a vast number of independently rich people who are at most going to be inconvenienced by this turmoil. The damage is going to hit certain groups far harder than others, as grossly unfair as that is. And those hurt the most are at the bottom, using Android phones already. 

    Apple also pays the most taxes in the US, and its sales are hit by state sales tax etc. Substantiate what you're claiming because it sounds awfully weak. 
    Trump went far too easy on Apple with the Tariffs.   He should have imposed at least 100% tariffs, but unfortunately he tied his success to the stock market too much which Apple is the biggest compAny on it,   Trump protecting the Rich when he talks about American workers.
    ElCapitandysamoria
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  • Reply 25 of 64
    ElCapitanelcapitan Posts: 372member
    ElCapitan said:
    First of all there is a rude awakening across the planet of the insanity of shipping production of goods and services offshore, and putting all eggs in the Chinese basket.  The effect of the COVID-19 crisis is that suddenly all countries starts to act like countries again, and global sourcing has to a large extent collapsed. 

    With the upcoming financial depression we just have seen the start of, people are going to first cut on subscriptions; cloud services, music, media streaming, software subscriptions, then anything premium.

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    You really need to reconsider what you think about jobs.
    No, I don't need to reconsider what I think about jobs.  Apple and a whole slew of globalist companies and entities do.
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  • Reply 26 of 64
    ElCapitanelcapitan Posts: 372member

    ElCapitan said:
    First of all there is a rude awakening across the planet of the insanity of shipping production of goods and services offshore, and putting all eggs in the Chinese basket.  The effect of the COVID-19 crisis is that suddenly all countries starts to act like countries again, and global sourcing has to a large extent collapsed. 

    With the upcoming financial depression we just have seen the start of, people are going to first cut on subscriptions; cloud services, music, media streaming, software subscriptions, then anything premium.

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    But Apple's installed base includes a vast number of independently rich people who are at most going to be inconvenienced by this turmoil. 
    The virus does not discriminate between rich or poor, so even Apple's user base can be seriously "inconvenienced" from that fact alone.

    Secondly, the economic downturn we will experience will be unprecedented in comparison to what the world have experienced in recent times because, this most likely engineered virus, will be exceptionally hard to make a vaccine for (if at all possible), and we will see multiple waves of infections across the planet. – Waves that has the potential to be much more lethal than the current one because one of the "hallmarks" of the virus is it degrades your immune system making the body less prepared to withstand the next infection. 
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  • Reply 27 of 64
    ElCapitanelcapitan Posts: 372member

    ElCapitan said:
    First of all there is a rude awakening across the planet of the insanity of shipping production of goods and services offshore, and putting all eggs in the Chinese basket.  The effect of the COVID-19 crisis is that suddenly all countries starts to act like countries again, and global sourcing has to a large extent collapsed. 

    With the upcoming financial depression we just have seen the start of, people are going to first cut on subscriptions; cloud services, music, media streaming, software subscriptions, then anything premium.

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    Apple also pays the most taxes in the US, and its sales are hit by state sales tax etc. Substantiate what you're claiming because it sounds awfully weak. 
    Apple thrives on harvesting a large international market, yet they bring very little job creations and activity to the majority of the markets they harvest. They also leave very little tax revenue in the markets they harvest, so the net outcome for those markets are negative overall.

    This is not particular to Apple, but is the case for just about every US company operating in non US markets.  Thankfully the EU is fully aware of the situation, and legislation is in the process of being created to make sure such companies pay their fair share of taxes in the countries/markets they harvest. 
    elijahg
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  • Reply 28 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member
    k2kw said:
    More relevant to the Q. “ Will the COVID-19 disaster sink Apple's premium hardware?” is that we’re waiting, waiting and waiting for AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, AppleCar, iTV, iPhone SE2, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020. No, it’s not COVID-19 that is the (main) cause of delays - although it will certainly be attributed being so. The core problem is the dispersed focus on all the services mentioned, the CEO not obsessed with products, and the money addiction of the immense Tech Bureaucracy he created reaping fruits from Steve’s ideas. Steve said: “Stay lean and mean, stay foolish, focus on products” Tim did: “Become large and keep counting, focus on cash” Hence its inability to act as a lean, mean and innovative aggressor. It has become merely defensive, sadly, where keeping market share is key and innovation considered merely disruptive. On the individual employee level that translates “Think different” into “Think indifferent”.
    The fact that you can list off almost a dozen products that a lot of iPhone users know about and are interested in evaluating or buying says much more about Apple's level of competency and performance.
    What is anyone waiting to come out of Facebook or Google, and what of those things would anyone actually pay for?
    I don't get your contrast between Jobs and Cook. Jobs tried many more wild things out as desperate reaches than Cook ever has. Jobs introduced iPod Socks and floated out some pretty bad software and internet services, including multile things he felt compelled to appoligize in public for. Cook has rather deftly launched hit after hit, even after the obvious product niches were filled.
    Cook is sailing a much larger ship. He can hire smart people to make design decisions. Jobs had a magical vision for knowing what upcoming generations would want and need. But if he were still around, he'd likely still be pushing for fake leather trim on windows and shiny chrome knobs in the UX, stuff that just slows down real progress in utility. Jobs was sort of notorious his whole life for occasionally prioitizing something really inessential over the greater good of a product.
    Apple would be far worse off if Cook blustered along as if he thought he were really The Visioary rather than being really excellent at operations. At this scale, Apple should be run by somebody capable of delegating work to a design talent team, rather than somebody who is there to stroke their "I'm a genius ego." Imagine if Apple run by some ultra privelaged rich dick who thinks he's smarter than he really is, like Elon.
    At least Elon is trying to really improve the world and not just make rich people richer.
    If you saw the level of wealth he lives in, rather than just reading enthusiast plaudits, maybe you'd have a different perspective. 

    Imagine having the idle wealth to claim that you're going to distribute desperately needed ventilators for COVID patients, then what you actually do is order some "ventilators" online and realize that what you bought was a sleeping aid that has nothing to do with ventilating patients suffering through COVID acute respiratory distress syndrome, so then you diddle about and try to play it all off as if you actually did some useful thing for society while your fans adore you for your heroism, and then you move on to something else while California continues to ask in vain "what happened to those respirators you were refurbing"? 
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 29 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    k2kw said:

    Yes, one of the things Apple really needs to work on improving. But it is well-positioned to do that, given that it has powerful on-device hardware and has Siri deployed across a billion users.  
    Hey are the going to release that new Game Playing Apple TV You were talking about a few months back.   Seems like they really missed an opportunity with so many people home now - especially the kids.  Disney plus reports 50 million Activasions.   Did Apple TV even get 10 million paid yet?
    Apple released the "game playing" Apple TV 4K in 2017 and launched Arcade for it a year ago. 

    I speculated that Apple might update it last fall with the A12X but the latest rumors say this fall with a newer A14, which will be much more of a leap.

    Lots of people like to talk about how crazy cheap Fire sticks and Chromecasts are, but they (along with any Android box) are really bad. Terrible. Apple TV has some remaining flaws to fix, but its becoming a really nice experience.

    As you know, any time an Apple user buys Disney+ the App Store gets a cut, so it's not really a competitor for TV+. And more so than even Netflix, Disney+ and the ATV channels all promote ATV as an app, sort of an "app store" of services. Which also promotes TV+. The new content on TV+ is very high quality, and ATV is the best way to watch it. 
    watto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 30 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    k2kw said:


    We’ve been  hearing for years that Siri would get better but it still sucks.
    A lazy cynic can say that about anything. Say something of value that's interesting. 
    watto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 31 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    k2kw said:


    Trump went far too easy on Apple with the Tariffs.   He should have imposed at least 100% tariffs, but unfortunately he tied his success to the stock market too much which Apple is the biggest compAny on it,   Trump protecting the Rich when he talks about American workers.
    Who do you think pays tariffs, "corporations"? American Workers pay the taxes on imports. 

    And if you're just picking up that Trump is protecting the rich rather than the coal miners and farmers he attracted with his white nationalist platform, wow. You're slow. 
    dysamoriaFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 32 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    corrections said:

    Imagine if Apple run by some ultra privelaged rich dick who thinks he's smarter than he really is, like Elon.

    Funny, because the only dick who thinks he is smarter than he really is, is you. 

    Once you’re able to take one of your long winded advertisement articles and actually apply it to criticism about any of the weaknesses that Apple has, you’re just a sorry soul that wouldn’t exist And nobody would know of, not that many people do now, if Apple didn’t exist. 

    Just once, talk about, in these long articles of yours,  something Apple doesn’t do well in detail. It’d make you a lot more balanced. 
    I absolutely wouldn't be all over Google if I hadn't written about the rise of Apple from an inside position, that's for sure. 

    I would still have existed, however, not sure how your logic is trying to work there. 

    I actually do work to find things I can legitimately criticize about Apple. What I find is that it's really hard to be accurate and correct when doing this. Look at literally every "balanced" writer out there complaining about things and turning minor situations into dramatic problems that never actually materialize. They are almost always wrong in their thinking. They please people like you. I don't write to juice up haters and cynics and assemble a bunch of cranky old guys as adoring fans so I can monetize them with hats with my name on it.

    I write to be an accurate journalist and to attempt to correctly say what's happening and to predict what will happen based on historical trends. And I have been right far more often than not, as my 15 years of stuff on the web makes clear. Thousands of articles predicting the rise and success of what Apple was doing culminated in today's trillion-dollar iPhone maker inventing the future alone.  I didn't cause any of it, I just observed correctly what was happening in a world that contradicted every word I wrote until they realized I had been correct. I actually do have fans that I've made extremely wealthy because I made them more comfortable about their investments in a world that was deeply cynical that Apple could ever compete against commodity. I didn't provide investment advice, I only laid out accurately what was happening. 

     That's worth a lot more to me than having a cheering section lauding all the dumb populist formulaic clickbait I could write. You'd rather me be another copy-paste outrage blogger complaining that I don't like the key feel of a particular Mac and that my grand opinion on Butterfly Keyboards was going to destroy Apple's PC business? You really want more garbage in the world? 

    Asking sincerely. 
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 33 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    ElCapitan said:

    But Apple's installed base includes a vast number of independently rich people who are at most going to be inconvenienced by this turmoil. 
    The virus does not discriminate between rich or poor, so even Apple's user base can be seriously "inconvenienced" from that fact alone.

    Secondly, the economic downturn we will experience will be unprecedented in comparison to what the world have experienced in recent times because, this most likely engineered virus, will be exceptionally hard to make a vaccine for (if at all possible), and we will see multiple waves of infections across the planet. – Waves that has the potential to be much more lethal than the current one because one of the "hallmarks" of the virus is it degrades your immune system making the body less prepared to withstand the next infection. 
    The virus doesn't discriminate but our society is inherently, systematically racist. Sure anyone can die from it. But do you think everyone in society has the same access to healthcare, gets triaged on the same level?

    Our "essential" workers are out there risking their lives doing basic labor tasks in the cough zone of the public, earning just enough to survive. The affluent are sitting at home sort of bored ordering toys off amazon. Which one can go to the hospital--can take off the time--and actually get treated, and then have the luxury of resting to get better, etc.

    The virus wasn't engineered. This a conspiracy theory bullshit. This also has no impact on how easy it will be to create a vaccine. 

    The virus does seem to cause peripheral damage that will result in issues we haven't even contemplated yet, including the psychological toll of the trauma of getting through it, being stressed about financed, and certainly the incredible loss of life that will impact millions on a very personal level in terrible ways. And while horrific, this coronavirus is far less deadly and contagious as a disease could hypothetically be. Factory farming in the US created swine flu and has helped pathogens evolve around the antibiotics we know about. Once our primary, safer antibiotics stop working, we are going to be really fragile. 

    And if the US keeps investing only in billion-dollar stealth bombers and megabombs, we will only be protected from some conventional army of terrorists that doesn't really exist but will be completely wide open to an invasion by a random pathogen that guns can't stop. Seems like even conservatives should be able to understand that investing in castles in the age of cannons isn't really smart anymore. Yet we lack even the barest of public health systems of any competence. Rich people are going to die from being coughed on by their essential Amazon delivery person. So yes, you're right, in the end it doesn't discriminate even if our society does. 

      
    dysamoriaFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 34 of 64
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member

    ElCapitan said:

    ElCapitan said:
    First of all there is a rude awakening across the planet of the insanity of shipping production of goods and services offshore, and putting all eggs in the Chinese basket.  The effect of the COVID-19 crisis is that suddenly all countries starts to act like countries again, and global sourcing has to a large extent collapsed. 

    With the upcoming financial depression we just have seen the start of, people are going to first cut on subscriptions; cloud services, music, media streaming, software subscriptions, then anything premium.

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    Apple also pays the most taxes in the US, and its sales are hit by state sales tax etc. Substantiate what you're claiming because it sounds awfully weak. 
    Apple thrives on harvesting a large international market, yet they bring very little job creations and activity to the majority of the markets they harvest. They also leave very little tax revenue in the markets they harvest, so the net outcome for those markets are negative overall.

    This is not particular to Apple, but is the case for just about every US company operating in non US markets.  Thankfully the EU is fully aware of the situation, and legislation is in the process of being created to make sure such companies pay their fair share of taxes in the countries/markets they harvest. 
    This is so factually ignorant and wrong I can't even. 

    But yes I do know that the EU desperately wants to collect taxes on work that occurred in the US to get their "fair share." 
    watto_cobrap-dog
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  • Reply 35 of 64
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    ElCapitan said:

    People are going to get much more aware of purchasing products that creates jobs in their countries and not someone elsewhere. Equally they are going become much more focused on that their hard earned money don't stuff the coffers of international companies that hardly give anything back to their markets (taxes, job creation, local economic growth). 
    Doubt it.  People are going to chase a bargain just like they have always done.  Government spending might reorientate to prioritise the things you list, but even that will likely only be a flash in the pan.
    dysamoria
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  • Reply 36 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member

    k2kw said:


    Trump went far too easy on Apple with the Tariffs.   He should have imposed at least 100% tariffs, but unfortunately he tied his success to the stock market too much which Apple is the biggest compAny on it,   Trump protecting the Rich when he talks about American workers.
    Who do you think pays tariffs, "corporations"? American Workers pay the taxes on imports. 

    And if you're just picking up that Trump is protecting the rich rather than the coal miners and farmers he attracted with his white nationalist platform, wow. You're slow. 
    I've know for a long time that Trump has weak sauce but he's slightly better than globalists that dominate the Democrat party.   Of course who's to know if he will win re-election.    His incompetence and irrational responses vs a tendency of Americans to re-elect war leaders (see Bush v. Kerry).
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  • Reply 37 of 64
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,084member


    ElCapitan said:

    But Apple's installed base includes a vast number of independently rich people who are at most going to be inconvenienced by this turmoil. 
    The virus does not discriminate between rich or poor, so even Apple's user base can be seriously "inconvenienced" from that fact alone.

    Secondly, the economic downturn we will experience will be unprecedented in comparison to what the world have experienced in recent times because, this most likely engineered virus, will be exceptionally hard to make a vaccine for (if at all possible), and we will see multiple waves of infections across the planet. – Waves that has the potential to be much more lethal than the current one because one of the "hallmarks" of the virus is it degrades your immune system making the body less prepared to withstand the next infection. 
    The virus doesn't discriminate but our society is inherently, systematically racist. Sure anyone can die from it. But do you think everyone in society has the same access to healthcare, gets triaged on the same level?

    Our "essential" workers are out there risking their lives doing basic labor tasks in the cough zone of the public, earning just enough to survive. The affluent are sitting at home sort of bored ordering toys off amazon. Which one can go to the hospital--can take off the time--and actually get treated, and then have the luxury of resting to get better, etc.

    The virus wasn't engineered. This a conspiracy theory bullshit. This also has no impact on how easy it will be to create a vaccine. 

    The virus does seem to cause peripheral damage that will result in issues we haven't even contemplated yet, including the psychological toll of the trauma of getting through it, being stressed about financed, and certainly the incredible loss of life that will impact millions on a very personal level in terrible ways. And while horrific, this coronavirus is far less deadly and contagious as a disease could hypothetically be. Factory farming in the US created swine flu and has helped pathogens evolve around the antibiotics we know about. Once our primary, safer antibiotics stop working, we are going to be really fragile. 

    And if the US keeps investing only in billion-dollar stealth bombers and megabombs, we will only be protected from some conventional army of terrorists that doesn't really exist but will be completely wide open to an invasion by a random pathogen that guns can't stop. Seems like even conservatives should be able to understand that investing in castles in the age of cannons isn't really smart anymore. Yet we lack even the barest of public health systems of any competence. Rich people are going to die from being coughed on by their essential Amazon delivery person. So yes, you're right, in the end it doesn't discriminate even if our society does. 

      
    Are you waiting out this virus in the U.S. or in Berlin?
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  • Reply 38 of 64
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I absolutely wouldn't be all over Google if I hadn't written about the rise of Apple from an inside position, that's for sure. 
    You worked for Apple?  When was that?
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  • Reply 39 of 64
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    k2kw said:


    Trump went far too easy on Apple with the Tariffs.   He should have imposed at least 100% tariffs, but unfortunately he tied his success to the stock market too much which Apple is the biggest compAny on it,   Trump protecting the Rich when he talks about American workers.
    Who do you think pays tariffs, "corporations"? American Workers pay the taxes on imports.  
    This is lazy.  Taxes applied as broadly as imports are not born by any particular group in anywhere near totality. Workers, consumers and business will all bear part of the cost of import taxes, and they all may also benefit indirectly from them; there is no catch-all rule.
    elijahgFileMakerFeller
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  • Reply 40 of 64
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,901member

    elijahg said:
    snow66 said:
    While the media focusses on Apples shortcomings with Siri, Apple is reaching far beyond cloud based voice assistants.  
    Yeah so far beyond the cloud that asking Siri to do something as simple as pause or change the volume regularly causes a 5 second delay and then "just a moment"... then 5 seconds later "please hold the line"... another 5 seconds "nope connection is broken". If that was on-device that would never be a problem. Siri is embarrassing.
    Yes, one of the things Apple really needs to work on improving. But it is well-positioned to do that, given that it has powerful on-device hardware and has Siri deployed across a billion users.  
    It is, I just can't understand why haven't they done it yet. Even if it was for the basic stuff like changing the volume or pausing. Damnit my 60Mhz PowerMac 6100 could do basic voice recognition, so it's sure as hell a 2ghz phone with 6 cores can. Don't get me started on how terrible Siri is for more than the most basic queries. Its comprehension really is no better than it was on the 4s.
    edited April 2020
    dysamoria
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