ACLU warns that Apple COVID-19 contact tracing encroaches on civil liberties

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in General Discussion
The American Civil Liberties Union has raised concerns over the Bluetooth-based contact tracing tool that Apple and Google are collaborating on, citing that the move could invade user's privacy-- if it even works at all.




The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), has released a statement on the joint COVID-19 contact-tracing collaboration between Apple and Google. In the report, they outline concerns about the efficacy and practicality of such technology, as well as how tracking apps could be used to identify those who use them personally.

Their main concern is that of adoption. Experts say that 60% of people would need to adopt the technology for it to be effective. Many people, though, may not trust a device that aims to track everywhere they go, especially if the data were easily able to be traced back to them.

The ACLU proposes rather than store information on a server, the data should be stored locally on a user's phone. Additionally, they worry that Bluetooth tracking may not be accurate enough to deem what is an epidemiologically relevant contact.

Google and Apple are jointly assuring potential users that the list of people a user comes into contact with is only stored locally on a device and isn't shared unless they opt to share it, such as after a positive diagnosis. The actual identities of people who test positive for COVID-19 aren't revealed to Apple, Google, or other users, and the companies can disable the system on a regional basis when it is no longer needed.

The ACLU has proposed a list of technology principles that users, policymakers, and developers can judge contract tracing apps. The ACLU's core tenets propose that a user must have control over their data, demand the ongoing protection of a user's privacy, and require the apps to obtain a user's consent at multiple stages. They also make it clear that the app should never be used for punitive or law enforcement purposes under any circumstances at all.

Google and Apple assure users that the program has been built from the ground up to respect strong privacy policies. No location data or personally identifiable information is collected as part of the system, and each device's Bluetooth identifier will change periodically to prevent unwanted tracking.

When implemented, the technology will use a device's onboard Bluetooth hardware to keep tabs on who the owner comes into close proximity with. Specifically, Bluetooth identifiers are exchanged and saved locally. Under the current proposal, the Bluetooth identifiers provide 24 hours of linkable data, which the ACLU deems unacceptable, as users cannot choose to redact location information for certain times of the day.

The Google and Apple joint contract tracing partnership has been both praised and scrutinized by the Trump administration and the president himself, with him noting that the system is "amazing" but raises "big constitutional problems." Trump failed to specify what specific concerns exist about Apple and Google's system, however.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    You know what else encroaches on civil liberties? Death. Death encroaches on your civil liberties.
    gilly33MplsPStrangeDaysdoozydozenlarryjwCyclistetokyojimu
  • Reply 2 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Sounds like the Apple/Google plan ticks every one of the ACLU points, other than this one which would be impossible without compromising both the efficacy of the data and users privacy:
    "Under the current proposal, the Bluetooth identifiers provide 24 hours of linkable data, which the ACLU deems unacceptable, as users cannot choose to redact location information for certain times of the day."  The ACLU truncated their thought process.

    As another publication put it "users cannot review data prior to upload. This should, (the ACLU) believes, offer a second opportunity for app users to review the contacts and delete any that did not carry any exposure risk...  it (also) says that it isn’t satisfied that the amount of data captured can’t be used to identify people.

    ...These latter two points are effectively impossible to implement, however. Users can’t review the contacts recorded because the whole point of using Bluetooth codes is that individuals cannot be identified. So a user would have no way of knowing which codes to redact. And you cannot reduce the data without compromising the ability to identify exposure.

    It would technically be possible to allow a user to exclude false contacts. For example, there could be a toggle that allows us to say we are alone in a room or vehicle, even if there may be people the other side of a thin wall or outside our sealed car. However, the more you rely on people manually toggling things on or off, the less reliable the apps would become."

    edited April 2020 gilly33cornchipMplsPdoozydozen
  • Reply 3 of 20
    ACLU cares about civil liberties?  How quaint of them.  I agree that Apple/Google appear to have created a system that safe guards individual freedoms.  There are no constitutional issues if it is voluntary.  The step I worry about is not having to show proof you are positive to say you are infected.  
  • Reply 4 of 20
    gilly33gilly33 Posts: 434member
    What the hell is wrong with these people? Working on something like this is absolutely vital in the fight against this virus. Like everyone who uses smart devices, computers and most apps don’t already have their privacy at risk already. Thankfully Apple is working on it along with Google where they concerns would be more than warranted. Other countries have implemented this approach and they are definite privacy concerns. But I feel a lot safer with Apple on board. 
  • Reply 5 of 20
    georgie01georgie01 Posts: 436member
    jkichline said:
    You know what else encroaches on civil liberties? Death. Death encroaches on your civil liberties.
    We live in a time where many people, especially the younger generation, have no meaningful understanding of the importance of liberty.

    It’s precisely because the US founders experienced the pain of tyranny that they made things the way they did. They would be appalled at those who would willingly give liberty up, and they fought to the death for it.

    We need to listen to them because we live relatively easy and spoiled lives. The more we lose touch with the importance of liberty and then willingly give it up for seemingly important things we will eventually find ourselves closer and closer to tyranny. Respect those in office but do not give them the space to abuse their power, and certainly don’t invite them to.
    lkruppmike1inTIMidatorcolinng
  • Reply 6 of 20
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,950member
    gilly33 said:
    What the hell is wrong with these people? Working on something like this is absolutely vital in the fight against this virus. Like everyone who uses smart devices, computers and most apps don’t already have their privacy at risk already. Thankfully Apple is working on it along with Google where they concerns would be more than warranted. Other countries have implemented this approach and they are definite privacy concerns. But I feel a lot safer with Apple on board. 
    As with most things that violate our right to privacy, it sounds good at the time because it’s in the name of our safety. Over time it gets used against us. I’m not sure how I feel about this particular program as I haven’t done tons of research on it yet. I’m sure Apple & the Goog are doing their best, but I’m still of the opinion that this whole Covid 19 thing has been blown way out of proportion. I can’t help but think governments globally Are rubbing their hands together with evil glee at the chance to see how easily they can lock their populations down and implement tracking systems such as this one.
    lkruppplanetary paul
  • Reply 7 of 20
    The alternative to the Apple-Google initiative is traditional contact tracing and investigation which is far more invasive to a lot more people’s privacy. The caseworker queries the positive person about all their activity, the circumstances, and people encountered. The caseworker than queries contacts about their health status, activities, and contacts. This is also much slower and therefore less effective in preventing new infections while people shed if asymptomatic. More infections means a longer trashed economy which hurts everybody. 

    It’s the virus, stupid
    StrangeDaysgilly33
  • Reply 8 of 20
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    ACLU cares about civil liberties?  How quaint of them.  I agree that Apple/Google appear to have created a system that safe guards individual freedoms.  There are no constitutional issues if it is voluntary.  The step I worry about is not having to show proof you are positive to say you are infected.  

    You can't just say "I'm positive" and that's that. I'm guessing, you have to enter your test result (probably a test serial number) that is then verified against a database of test results kept by the lab that ran your test. Only if that comes back positive is the person prompted to allow their info to upload to a centralized server.
  • Reply 9 of 20
    ApplePoorApplePoor Posts: 286member
    Using a cellphone is a substitute for the "show your papers". With on board GPS, we are easily tracked to probably plus or minus twenty feet wherever we go.  Being reduced now to just three cell service providers means only three data bases need to be searched for one's travel activity. The cell service folks have the logs of every number called and it's duration. NSA listens in, at their option, to all communications. There really is no privacy to any form of communication unless one is in the middle of a field with a bee hat on so your lips cannot be read while talking to another person standing beside you.
  • Reply 10 of 20
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Funny how the ALCU hasn’t mentioned how the lockdown orders have encroached on civil liberties. But I sort of agree with them about this. Once this tracking technology is proven in the field it’s like letting the genie out of the bottle. Like a security backdoor the Apple/Google API will get used for other purposes, no matter what promises the companies make. Add to that what I’m seeing on news sites about a so-called ‘immunity badge’. If you are tested and found to have the anti-bodies then you are assumed to be immune and you get to wear a badge saying it’s okay for you to be out and about. Now what does that remind you of  from WWII?

    If you don’t fear the government... you should, and should question its every move. Today’s federal government is nothing like it was when the country was founded. Over the history of the U.S. the federal government has usurped more and more power from the states. Today it uses federal tax money as a weapon to keep the states under its thumb. So talking about what the founding fathers intended is meaningless as today’s U.S. would be unrecognizable to them.
    edited April 2020 inTIMidatororthorim
  • Reply 11 of 20
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,886member
    cornchip said:
    gilly33 said:
    What the hell is wrong with these people? Working on something like this is absolutely vital in the fight against this virus. Like everyone who uses smart devices, computers and most apps don’t already have their privacy at risk already. Thankfully Apple is working on it along with Google where they concerns would be more than warranted. Other countries have implemented this approach and they are definite privacy concerns. But I feel a lot safer with Apple on board. 
    As with most things that violate our right to privacy, it sounds good at the time because it’s in the name of our safety. Over time it gets used against us. I’m not sure how I feel about this particular program as I haven’t done tons of research on it yet. I’m sure Apple & the Goog are doing their best, but I’m still of the opinion that this whole Covid 19 thing has been blown way out of proportion. I can’t help but think governments globally Are rubbing their hands together with evil glee at the chance to see how easily they can lock their populations down and implement tracking systems such as this one.
    Well, you’re not an infectious diseases expert, researcher or clinician, so thankfully you aren’t making any important decisions. The world’s leaders take it seriously because they understand it better than you do. 2 million currently infected and growing, 150,000 dead today and that’s with draconian lockdowns in place all over the world. The virus is very contagious, 20% of infected wind up in a hospital, and 1-2% die. We have no vaccine or prophylactic drugs, and a severe shortage of medicare equipment such as PPE to keep medical staff safe. In my state, there is a church of doubters, and you know what happened when one of its leaders got sick bad? He was rushed to the hospital for life-saving treatment.

    Again, thankfully you’re not in charge of anything.

     




    edited April 2020 MplsPRayz2016tarman
  • Reply 12 of 20
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    cornchip said:
    gilly33 said:
    What the hell is wrong with these people? Working on something like this is absolutely vital in the fight against this virus. Like everyone who uses smart devices, computers and most apps don’t already have their privacy at risk already. Thankfully Apple is working on it along with Google where they concerns would be more than warranted. Other countries have implemented this approach and they are definite privacy concerns. But I feel a lot safer with Apple on board. 
    As with most things that violate our right to privacy, it sounds good at the time because it’s in the name of our safety. Over time it gets used against us. I’m not sure how I feel about this particular program as I haven’t done tons of research on it yet. I’m sure Apple & the Goog are doing their best, but I’m still of the opinion that this whole Covid 19 thing has been blown way out of proportion. I can’t help but think governments globally Are rubbing their hands together with evil glee at the chance to see how easily they can lock their populations down and implement tracking systems such as this one.

    How is this a violation of privacy when you have to agree to it before anything happens? Most people give up their right to privacy ALL THE TIME. Most of the services on the Internet take that right away when you use them. People post every damned detail of their personal lives (and of their friends) on Facebook and you consider randomly generated, untraceable numbers being passed around as a violation of privacy!?!?
    gatorguygilly33
  • Reply 13 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    ApplePoor said:
    Using a cellphone is a substitute for the "show your papers". With on board GPS, we are easily tracked to probably plus or minus twenty feet wherever we go.  Being reduced now to just three cell service providers means only three data bases need to be searched for one's travel activity. The cell service folks have the logs of every number called and it's duration. NSA listens in, at their option, to all communications. There really is no privacy to any form of communication unless one is in the middle of a field with a bee hat on so your lips cannot be read while talking to another person standing beside you.
    This contact tracing API doesn't use GPS. It doesn't use location either. 
  • Reply 14 of 20
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    jkichline said:
    You know what else encroaches on civil liberties? Death. Death encroaches on your civil liberties.
    There is no ‘right’ to protection from death from viruses.
    mike1
  • Reply 15 of 20
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    Many people, though, may not trust a device that aims to track everywhere they go, especially if the data were easily able to be traced back to them.

    You know why people don't trust these things? Because organizations like ACLU release these ignorant  statements.

    1. The purpose is NOT to track everywhere you go. It clearly states... You have to opt-in. You have to be "close" to another person that opted-in. And you have to "hang around" for more than a passing moment; several minutes in fact. After all that criteria is met, the only data that is exchanged is a randomly generated number - a number that changes after a certain amount of time, which means you cannot track that number beyond that amount of time. And the only way to "track" that number is to get ahold of every device that saved that number. Which would be impossible to check, since that saved number is securely stored on each "contact" device.

    2. The data is NOT easily traced back to someone. It's a randomly generated number that's securely stored on the device. The ONLY time it gets beyond the device is when someone tests positive and that person allows their numbers to be 
    uploaded to a central database - and that's all that gets uploaded. There's no reason for any other data to be uploaded. It's just a database so that others can check if they've been in the proximity of someone who tested positive. And by the way, all the "contact" numbers that your device has saved, STAY on the device. That information is secured and not shared. No one knows who've come into contact with.
    edited April 2020 gatorguy
  • Reply 16 of 20
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    The biggest problem with violation of our privacy is that privacy or lack thereof is not a two-way street. Others can know about us, but we know nothing about the others. Government and business track us constantly with and without our consent and use it in ways often, most often, detrimental to our well-being. 

    On the other hand, these same entities function in complete secret and we have no access to their agendas, uses of the data, or any way to force accountability of these entities. 

    There really is a good reason to be able to contact trace during an epidemic. It's the only solution to surgically stop the transmission of this disease, rather than closing down the entire economy causing the massive damage we are experiencing. 

    The solution to the privacy conundrum is to ensure all entities live in glass houses. 

    I don't need or want to know which hand the politicians and CEO's wipe their asses with, but I want to know everything else. 


  • Reply 17 of 20
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,931member
    jkichline said:
    You know what else encroaches on civil liberties? Death. Death encroaches on your civil liberties.
    There is no ‘right’ to protection from death from viruses.
    Likewise there is no right to endanger others' lives. No right or freedom is absolute.
    gilly33
  • Reply 18 of 20
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    MplsP said:
    jkichline said:
    You know what else encroaches on civil liberties? Death. Death encroaches on your civil liberties.
    There is no ‘right’ to protection from death from viruses.
    Likewise there is no right to endanger others' lives. No right or freedom is absolute.
    Says you.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    You can’t really encroach on civil liberties when installing the app is voluntary.

    “They also make it clear that the app should never be used for punitive or law enforcement purposes under any circumstances at all.”
    My understanding is that’s how the framework is designed.

    But, it should definitely be made clear when you install the app what data is available and to whom.  There should also be an easy toggle to turn off the tracking, to encourage user adoption.

    edited April 2020
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