Apple Car could have automatically tinting 'moon roof' and windows

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple is investigating the composition of car windows that could be adjusted to help with passenger privacy, or change protective tinting in bright environments.

Apple appears to be planning for a Tesla-style
Apple appears to be planning for a Tesla-style "moon roof" on the Apple Car. (Image source: Tesla)


Following a previous patent regarding car windows with adjustable tint or opacity, Apple is now investigating achieving this with a series of layers within the glass.

"Systems with adjustable windows," US Patent No. 10,625,580, is continually careful to not limit Apple to working with cars. Repeatedly, it refers to "vehicles and buildings."

And does so even when it is stating the obvious. "It is desirable to provide vehicles and buildings with windows," it says. More usefully, it does then point out that "windows may be provided with frosted surfaces or mirror coatings to enhance privacy."

Apple points out that this is harder than it seems, calling it "challenging" to include these frosted or mirror surfaces into windows. "If care is not taken, windows may be too reflective, may be insufficiently transparent for viewing, or may have other undesired attributes."

So far, all of this could genuinely equally apply to a car or an office block, but then Apple specifies one of the challenges and it regards a car. An Apple Car vehicle shouldn't have windows that are permanently frosted or permanently mirrors, not if they prevent the driver and passengers from safely seeing out. If you're to have privacy, you need windows that adjust.

"A system such as a vehicle may have adjustable structures...," says the patent. "Control circuitry in the vehicle may be used to adjust the adjustable windows based on user input and sensor input."

The majority of the patent concentrates on how a window can be made adjustable by being comprised of multiple layers, each of which can be controlled separately.

"Adjustable windows may have adjustable layers such as adjustable tint layers, adjustable reflectivity layers, and adjustable haze layers," it says. "Adjustable window layers may be incorporated into a window with one or more transparent structural layers such as a pair of glass window layers."

If you're thinking that there's one word that is being overused here, read the whole patent. While the complete document is 45,000 words, and the word "adjustable" only appears 161 times, it feels incessant.

"Adjustable components such as adjustable reflectivity layers, adjustable haze layers, and adjustable tint layers may be interposed between the pair of glass window layers," continues the patent.

These layers are to comprise "a cholesteric liquid crystal device and a switchable metal hydride film," which will exhibit a changeable "amount of light reflectivity."

The windows are to be "formed from one or more layers of glass, polymer, conductive material," and other materials including sapphire. In each case it's the composite construction that allows for certain layers to be controlled and altered.

Detail from the patent regarding different states of window opacity
Detail from the patent regarding different states of window opacity


Apple may also have revealed another Tesla-like feature in the way it describes the use of windows in a vehicle.

"Windows may include front windows on front of [the] vehicle," it says, "a moon roof window or other window extending over some or all of top of [the] vehicle." The same description continues into details about side windows and then even into the covering of exterior lighting components, but it's the "moon roof" that stands out.

Most Tesla models feature a large glass roof which gives passengers a sense of the cars being bigger than they really are. As well as a tremendous view, though, these moon roof fittings can cause a problem. Drivers, in particular, who spend extended periods in the car can have heat problems from sunlight focusing on their heads.

Tesla, and other manufacturers, do work to alleviate this with glass that protects the driver from UV light. However, it's still common for Tesla owners to pay for after-market tinting of the moon roof glass specifically to avoid this problem.

It's possible that Apple's solution will be to have a roof, front and side windows that can be adjusted by the driver. It's also possible that once such adjustability is included in the car, it can be controlled through automation. Just as many modern cars will start their windscreen wipers when rain is detected, Apple's car could proactively tint glass in particularly bright environments.

The invention is credited to eight inventors, including Christopher D. Jones, and Clarisse Mazuir. Jones was previously credited on one patent regarding sharing images across multiple devices when they come in to close proximity, and another regarding Apple Glasses.

Mazuir has been credited on a prior Apple Car patent, which was to do with a headlight system that could pick out road hazards for drivers.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    zoetmbBeatsStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 39
    looplessloopless Posts: 329member
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
  • Reply 3 of 39
    I remember back in 1985 Honda experimenting with this idea.
  • Reply 4 of 39
    Apple’s automotive ambitions continue to befuddle me. I guess I’m just stupid.
  • Reply 5 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Why is it insane for Apple but not for no one else? Why do you think that one should only build an EV after gasoline is no longer in use? Do you usually only make decisions after the fact?
    BeatsRayz2016spock1234neo-techStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 39
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,654member
    I also thought that Apple's car project, at least insofar as Apple building their own car was concerned, was dead.  Didn't they get rid of all the staff?  The patent might just be IP protection so they can license (or sue) someone else.  

    And while adjustable tint windows would be great, I'm a bit surprised by the emphasis on privacy.  Most, if not all states have rules about how dark the tint can be at least for the front and driver's side window and they issue tickets if it measures too dark.    I've personally witnessed people getting them who have had their windows custom tinted.  Of course, that wouldn't apply to the moon roof.    I don't know what the rules are in Europe, Asia or elsewhere.  




    dewme
  • Reply 7 of 39
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.
    BeatsXedmwhitedewmeroundaboutnowRayz2016spock1234neo-techMacProStrangeDays
  • Reply 8 of 39
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    I can guiarantee these cars will make Teslas look like crap. Say goodby to the times when every car looked different. Expect the market to be flooded with knockoffs.


    lkrupp said:
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.

    I want to add more but I can't. Apple hears this every time a new product is in development or announced.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    lkrupp said:
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.
    I don't understand why so many people believe that if you haven't publicly entered a market and had success that it's impossible, especially when there are so many examples showing it's possible.

    Apple is extra unique because they're still looked upon as failures if they don't kill everyone else in the market. Being the dominate player in terms of profit isn't even good enough for these people when others are only looking to see if Apple can carve out a decent niche.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 39
    I didn't even know Apple were making a car..
  • Reply 11 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    Beats said:
    I can guiarantee these cars will make Teslas look like crap. Say goodby to the times when every car looked different. Expect the market to be flooded with knockoffs.
    What do you mean by that? You can look at the Tesla Model S v Porsche Taycan today to find many ways in which each EV is crap, depending on what you choose to look at. 

    The Taycan will surely have better fit and finish than the much cheaper Model S, but I'd take the Model S any day because of the multitude of reasons it's better at what it's designed to do. Will Apple beat the Model S at all these things? Doubtful.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30799498/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-vs-2020-tesla-model-s-performance/
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 39
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    lkrupp said:
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
    boxcatcherwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
    Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
    spock1234StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 39
    lkrupp said:
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.

    Not under Tim. Look at how long does it take to ship AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, iTV, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020 ? 

    Things of abysmal complexity compared to entering a new industry.

    Apple under Cook has completely turned into a immense repetitive tech bureaucracy (yes plus services that disperse focus even more)

    By the time they have their first car every other carmaker has 100x the experience.

    Apple’s only remaining chance is to buy one.

    Cook by then will be a full-time University Chairman or politician - which is where his heart is.

    edited April 2020 mike54
  • Reply 15 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    lkrupp said:
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.

    Not under Tim. Look at how long does it take to ship AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, iTV, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020 ? 

    Things of abysmal complexity compared to entering a new industry.

    Apple under Cook has completely turned into a immense repetitive tech bureaucracy (yes plus services that disperse focus even more)

    By the time they have their first car every other carmaker has 100x the experience.

    Apple’s only remaining chance is to buy one.

    Cook by then will be a full-time University Chairman or politician - which is where his heart is.

    You're claiming things were more smooth under Steve Jobs? Jobs was notorious for making public claims that never came to pass or took much longer than stated, but you bring up things like AirTile which have never once been stated by Apple as a product.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 39
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    Xed said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
    Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
    Not incompetent, inexperienced. Damler, Ford, and the rest have decades of experience designing these things. They know what works. An engineer with one of the established companies can suggest an idea that’s new to them, and one of the old hands can say, “we tried that in ‘93 and the customers didn’t like it for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Apple won’t have that. And I know the standard response is “but they didn’t know anything about phones. But the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod, which was the descendant of the Newton. Apple had been making devices like that before, even if they weren’t that exact one. Apple has no experience with drivetrains, and suspensions, and wipers, and door hinges. Neither did Dihatsu or Kia, or Honda, and each made a decade of crap before they figured out how to do it. And they each hired some of the best engineers in the business too. It isn’t just about engineering. It’s institutional knowledge. Apple has no institutional knowledge about making vehicles. That’s why I don’t think they will ever produce a car. The backlash of an Apple car tarnishing the brand for a decade isn’t something I think they would be willing to endure. 
    mike54watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 39
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,361member
    lkrupp said:
    loopless said:
    This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
    Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market  was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft?  Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?

    Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.

    At the very least, Apple has a pretty good track record of circling around a market that seems to be struggling or is at flattened growth with plenty of existing vendors, and then suddenly, but not unexpectedly, pouncing in with just the right combination of design elegance and easy-to-consume features to make everyone realize that the current players had it mostly, or all, wrong. Three obvious cases in point: iPod, iPhone, and iPad. Everyone knew Apple was circling those markets but the existing players thought they'd already played out the market. Little did the existing players know it, but their offerings were merely chum for the real shark that had a much better solution for exploiting the market the existing players were under-serving. 

    Could this scenario play out in the personal transportation sector? It very well could. There really seems to be a lot more Apple badged human capital circling the spaceship campus and the many satellite campuses than what is needed to pump out what we've been seeing come out of Apple over the past few years. They're definitely working on something bigger than iterative updates to current products and services ... something even bigger than those snazzy new Mac Pro wheels.

    I hope.
    edited April 2020 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 39
    XedXed Posts: 2,543member
    DAalseth said:
    Xed said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
    Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
    Not incompetent, inexperienced. Damler, Ford, and the rest have decades of experience designing these things. They know what works. An engineer with one of the established companies can suggest an idea that’s new to them, and one of the old hands can say, “we tried that in ‘93 and the customers didn’t like it for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Apple won’t have that. And I know the standard response is “but they didn’t know anything about phones. But the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod, which was the descendant of the Newton. Apple had been making devices like that before, even if they weren’t that exact one. Apple has no experience with drivetrains, and suspensions, and wipers, and door hinges. Neither did Dihatsu or Kia, or Honda, and each made a decade of crap before they figured out how to do it. And they each hired some of the best engineers in the business too. It isn’t just about engineering. It’s institutional knowledge. Apple has no institutional knowledge about making vehicles. That’s why I don’t think they will ever produce a car. The backlash of an Apple car tarnishing the brand for a decade isn’t something I think they would be willing to endure. 
    They do? Then how did Tesla get a leg up on a desirable, long range EV? How did Apple ever become the company people look at for cellphones or tablets which other companies had decades long headstarts?
    thtStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 39
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    DAalseth said:
    Xed said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried? 
    I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
    Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
    Not incompetent, inexperienced. Damler, Ford, and the rest have decades of experience designing these things. They know what works. An engineer with one of the established companies can suggest an idea that’s new to them, and one of the old hands can say, “we tried that in ‘93 and the customers didn’t like it for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Apple won’t have that. And I know the standard response is “but they didn’t know anything about phones. But the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod, which was the descendant of the Newton. Apple had been making devices like that before, even if they weren’t that exact one. Apple has no experience with drivetrains, and suspensions, and wipers, and door hinges. Neither did Dihatsu or Kia, or Honda, and each made a decade of crap before they figured out how to do it. And they each hired some of the best engineers in the business too. It isn’t just about engineering. It’s institutional knowledge. Apple has no institutional knowledge about making vehicles. That’s why I don’t think they will ever produce a car. The backlash of an Apple car tarnishing the brand for a decade isn’t something I think they would be willing to endure. 
    An interesting viewpoint that ignores the Apple Watch, and makes no mention of Apple’s interest in preventative medicine and Apple Energy which sells power to the national grid. It also ignores the fact that Apple had no experience of music players before launching the iPod, and no experience of selling music online before iTunes. 

    You also tried to claim that the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod. That is also incorrect. When the iPhone was launched, the iPod still used the click-wheel interface, didn’t run apps and couldn’t make phone calls. Apple had no experience of dealing with networks, which is what prompted similar comments to yours from industry leaders. The modern iPod is basically an iPhone that can’t make phone calls: the iPod is now a descendant of the iPhone. 

    Time and time again, Apple has proved “institutional knowledge” doesn’t actually matter. 
    edited April 2020 Xedthtspock1234StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 39
    I can image what it’ll cost. Seriously.
    WarrenBuffduckh
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