Senator demands Tim Cook be personally accountable for any contact tracing privacy failure...

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 80
    urahara said:
    I am all for corporate accountability and I’m all for privacy protection. The good Senator of all people is in the best position to do these things. Rather than write to CEOs of publicly owned companies asking them police themselves why doesn’t he introduce legislation that does this? Why doesn’t he do his f-ing job rather than publicity stunts and grandstanding?
    Because this clown is bad at his job. So he goes for publicity. 
    Maybe next he can ask to speak to Apple's manager ... you know .... to show he means business. 
  • Reply 42 of 80
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,120member
    crowley said:
    Would be great if Senators and the President would lead the way and also put their personal finances on the line for the decisions that they make.
    They do, and it’s in your hands. Show up and vote. If more than 50% agree then they will be out of a job. 
    edited April 2020
  • Reply 43 of 80
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,268member
    tbsteph said:
    Seems like most of the existing commenters thus far are more concerned about the party affiliation of Sen Hawley than the concerns he raised. 
    I'm not concerned about the points raised by the Senator because I have read the available information from Apple & Google.

    Also there are other issues with the Senator's behaviour:
    1. The Senator could have requested information for how the individual's privacy would be protected, instead they wrote something that has no value outside of political point scoring. Instead of using their authority to make real inquiries that could positively affect their constituents, they're wasting it for their own personal gain.
    2. The Senator is either naive, or choosing to be naive about how technology can provide tracing without identifying the individual. (E.g. This is how your Maps app can provide you traffic without specifically indicating where you are with any greater detail than what is already available from other means.)
    3. The Senator has either ignored, or chooses to ignore that the short term APIs are not going to be made widely available, but restricted for official uses only.

    The Senator might perhaps better spend his time having one of his staff read how the technology preserves the user's privacy. https://www.apple.com/covid19/contacttracing/
    edited April 2020 baconstangronn
  • Reply 44 of 80
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,786member
    Where are these bozos when Equifax leaked? Or the telecom and ISPs decided to sell our browsing data? 

    Why is it legislators give the banking and telecom industries a pass, but go after Apple/Silicon Valley hard? I have my ideas...
    baconstangGG1Beatsjoeljrichards
  • Reply 45 of 80
    vukasikavukasika Posts: 102member
    It’s just sad to see politicians of any party demanding guarantees from a private citizen when the same political structure is used by politicians to avoid personal accountability for their actions. 
    Xedbaconstang
  • Reply 46 of 80
    clandestine8clandestine8 Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    Did they forget that the white house asked for this program?
  • Reply 47 of 80
    XedXed Posts: 2,472member
    Did they forget that the white house asked for this program?
    Possibly, or they never knew as this is the party that didn't know you could pass a virus to others before symptoms are present. Or, they're doing their typical misdirect to get us to stop paying attention to all the lives they've cost and the economy they've helped damage even further by not taking actions sooner and with a clear message.
    baconstangronn
  • Reply 48 of 80
    dysamoria said:
    gilly33 said:
    Typical coming out of Washington. I have no confidence in these damn politicians no matter what party they represent. This crisis has further exposed how f**ked up the system is and both parties have been playing with the public’s interest long before this. This is still the greatest country in the world in my opinion but what a joke we are right now. But it’s easier to pretend they care about our privacy. Both parties need to be held accountable for this debacle and whole thing needs an overall. How and when that will ever happen is another story. Just my two cents. 
    “Greatest country in the world” is nationalism. Be a patriot, not a nationalist.
    First of all quit imposing your ideology on people. Second, there is nothing wrong with being a nationalist. Being a nationalist means liking your own country better than other countries and having a vested interest in it, a sensible position because your own political, economic and social fate is inextricably tied to your own country. So any patriotism without that sense of nationalism is just empty words. Third, the problem isn't when you prefer your country to others. The problem is that when you try to impose your preference for your country on others. I recall reading somewhere that when Nazi Germany took over Austria, they required the Austrian kids to be taught their own inherent inferiority to the Germans ... and they required the Austrian kids to learn German for that purpose! Sorry, but the idea that "everything that falls short of my own cosmopolitanism is fascism" that you see bandied about these days is wrong. In fact if you go back so much as a few years, even very liberal or progressive Democrats like Tom Daschle, Jimmy Carter and (oh yeah) Barack Obama and Joe Biden never claimed that and frequently proclaimed their opinion that America was the greatest country in the world. 
    tmay
  • Reply 49 of 80
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    qwerty52 said:
    Apple should never go in such a project together with Google. It is damaging for Apple’s reputation!
    Over the past year Apple has also partnered with Google to make smart home devices secure and cross-compatible 
    https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-amazon-google-partner-on-smart-home-tech-2019-12
    Apple has joined with Google on a cloud data-sharing initiative.
    https://opensourceforu.com/2019/07/apple-joins-google-facebook-and-twitter-in-data-sharing-project/
    A little earlier than that Apple joined up with Google's Thread project to make home networking as secure as possible.
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/08/06/apple-joins-smart-home-mesh-networking-standards-group-thread
    ...and also joined up with Google on others on their open-sourced VP-9 video compression successor AV1
    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/203474

    Those are off the top of my head. I think I'm missing a couple of other relatively recent technology partnerships. 
    edited April 2020 tmay
  • Reply 50 of 80
    Beats said:
    Why are politics suddenly concerned about privacy, especially criticizing the most secure company in the world? Is it because they're being locked out of data?

    dysamoria said:
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).

    It's APPLE. They're held to a different standard. Goog invades my privacy daily but this fu**face looks the other way.

    Didn't read the article, I see, where the senator actually was primarily concerned about Google and explicitly stated that he preferred Apple's privacy to Google and was only concerned because of Google's involvement. 
  • Reply 51 of 80
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,244member
    gatorguy said:
    linkman said:
     This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
    I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
    You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
    I'm quite happy that Apple and Google are working together on this App, and not overly concerned about the specious "data security" arguments. Given that most, if not all, of U.S. Government agencies have been hacked in the past, it should be a priority for Senator Hawley to concern himself with legislation to improve data security within the U.S. Government.

    I'd be more concerned about the U.S. Government's liability when it comes to the deaths attributed to the use of HydroChloroquine, as prescribed by self acknowledged "Doctor", and President, Donald Trump.

    Perhaps practicing without a license would be a start?

    As for Senator Hawley, he should focus on his legislation blaming the CCP for the COVID19 outbreak, even as our Intelligence agencies were warning as early as November of 2019, of a SARS like outbreak in China. But of course, our Administration trusted China then, all the while wasting many weeks without preparation, or response, to the COVID19 Pandemic.

    Maybe Senator Hawley could pass legislation placing blame on the Administration's incompetence in leaving the Pandemic to run rampant  without even attempting to restrain the spread for weeks.
    baconstanggatorguyronn
  • Reply 52 of 80
    dysamoria said:

    gentooguy said:
    The people who are asking "why did Apple partner with Google on this anyway!" ... are forgetting that less than half of all smartphone users in the US run Android. Another thing ... we have to consider "expertise" here. While Apple is great at taking their time to come out with excellent things on the hardware and UX/UI design front, the ability to rapidly come out with software and services isn't their wheelhouse. Never has been. And that is precisely what software companies like Google and before them Microsoft exploited. The idea that Apple was going to get a complex software/services initiative like this off the ground in weeks as opposed to years ... they don't have the track record. If it wasn't Google - who has a very good knowledge of iOS because they are a leading app developer on that platform as well as its default search provider - it would have had to have been Microsoft, Facebook or some other company that Apple fans would have found just as distasteful. From the perspective of people who agree with this effort - I agree that not everyone does and their concerns are valid - this app is something that was needed on multiple platforms and hardware types yesterday (even in a clunky and imperfect form) and not refined, tuned and perfectly engineered into a single ecosystem stack two years from now. Google's wheelhouse is the former, Apple excels at the latter, and no use pretending otherwise.
    Uh, no. You can get a tool out fast and critically flawed, or you can get it out slow and less flawed. Neither company has a good RECENT track record for low-flaw expediency.
    Maybe "you" can get a software tool out fast and critically flawed but Apple can't. Apple doesn't do "fast" at all, and their approach to new software and services is generally to acqui-hire (see Dark Sky). The same Apple design policy and corporate culture that you love makes it impossible for them to come out with a software service like this quickly.

    It's the same reason why it took Apple who-knows-how-long to get Apple Maps to competitive parity with Waze and Google Maps.
    Why Siri quickly fell behind Alexa, Cortana and Google Assistant despite coming out first
    Why Apple gave an app store to Apple TV years after Roku, Amazon, Google, Samsung and LG did the same for their smart TV platforms (despite, again, Apple TV being first) Why one can't purchase an app/song/movie etc. and initiate a download on the web for iOS/macOS the way that you can for Windows, Android/ChromeOS, Windows/XBox, Nintendo, PlaysStation, Steam, Epic Games etc. despite Apple arguably inventing the modern app store (Palm and Microsoft say they did it first) and iTunes (again) going way back to 2001.

    Apple is great at a lot of things, but A) speed and B) innovation on the software/services front isn't one of them. If they were, Microsoft and Google combined (which they would be, because had it not been for Android saving them, Microsoft would have swallowed Google long ago) would be smaller than Google is by themselves right now.
  • Reply 53 of 80
    Let me see if I’ve got this right.  The FBI wants a back door to all IOS devices.  India wants to foist a robo-call app onto their devices that doesn’t meet Apples security guidelines.  France wants Apple to weaken security to allow an app they built to access Bluetooth all the time.  And when Apple and Google get together to create a globally unified contact tracing solution that is Probably as secure as humanly possible, everyone loses their mind.  

    Am I close???

    Edit:
    And don’t get me started on a head of state asking a head of industry to be personally accountable for what their organization implements. 
    edited April 2020 tmaygatorguybaconstangronnmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 80
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    dysamoria said:
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).

    No you didn't.

    If you want an example of responsible justice then look to Iceland

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iceland-has-jailed-26-bankers-why-wont-we-a6735411.html



    headfull0winebaconstangStrangeDaysmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 55 of 80
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    He’s a Republican Senator. Also, this is why corporations exist. So the corporation is responsible, not just the CEO.
    gentooguybaconstangronn
  • Reply 56 of 80
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    dysamoria said:
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
    Madoff (technically not a CEO, but still in charge)
  • Reply 57 of 80
    He’s a Republican Senator. Also, this is why corporations exist. So the corporation is responsible, not just the CEO.
    The best comment that I have read on this all day. 
    edited April 2020 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 58 of 80
    GG1 said:
    dysamoria said:
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
    Madoff (technically not a CEO, but still in charge)
    Being held accountable for the illegal things that you personally did while working at a company is not equivalent to being held accountable for the actions of the corporation itself. Were that the case, every time a corporation declares bankruptcy the creditors would be able to take out liens against assets of everyone who works for the company the way the are able to do so over an individual's private debts.
    Beatsronn
  • Reply 59 of 80
    1348513485 Posts: 334member
    I am all for corporate accountability and I’m all for privacy protection. The good Senator of all people is in the best position to do these things. Rather than write to CEOs of publicly owned companies asking them police themselves why doesn’t he introduce legislation that does this? Why doesn’t he do his f-ing job rather than publicity stunts and grandstanding?
    Because it's so much easier to have your chief of staff send out a copy of the letter with a press release "For immediate distribution..."

    Have you ever heard of this guy before? Me neither. And by next week you'll have forgotten his name.
    baconstang
  • Reply 60 of 80
    1348513485 Posts: 334member
    gentooguy said:
    First of all quit imposing your ideology on people. Second, there is nothing wrong with being a nationalist. Being a nationalist means liking your own country better than other countries and having a vested interest in it, a sensible position because your own political, economic and social fate is inextricably tied to your own country. So any patriotism without that sense of nationalism is just empty words. Third, the problem isn't when you prefer your country to others. The problem is that when you try to impose your preference for your country on others. I recall reading somewhere that when Nazi Germany took over Austria, they required the Austrian kids to be taught their own inherent inferiority to the Germans ... and they required the Austrian kids to learn German for that purpose! Sorry, but the idea that "everything that falls short of my own cosmopolitanism is fascism" that you see bandied about these days is wrong. In fact if you go back so much as a few years, even very liberal or progressive Democrats like Tom Daschle, Jimmy Carter and (oh yeah) Barack Obama and Joe Biden never claimed that and frequently proclaimed their opinion that America was the greatest country in the world. 
    First of all...he wasn't "imposing" any ideology. It was a comment.

    Your Nazi Germany fable (!!!!! Godwin's Law bonus points for you!) is nonsense of the highest order.

    First, Austrians are native German speakers to begin with, with very slight accent and dialect differences. Also, Austrians had a higher rate of Nazi Party membership than German citizens did. So they didn't have to be "taught" anything.
    Beatsbaconstangronn
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