Senator demands Tim Cook be personally accountable for any contact tracing privacy failure...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 80
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,369member
    tbsteph said:
    Seems like most of the existing commenters thus far are more concerned about the party affiliation of Sen Hawley than the concerns he raised. 
    Uh, no.
    baconstangronndaven
  • Reply 22 of 80
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,415member
    There is a difference between herd immunity and herd mentality. Too little of one and too much of another is a deadly combination. 
    dysamoriagilly33civauraharaheadfull0winebaconstangroundaboutnowronn
  • Reply 23 of 80
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    tbsteph said:
    Seems like most of the existing commenters thus far are more concerned about the party affiliation of Sen Hawley than the concerns he raised. 
    Yours was only the second comment I saw that talked about parties. None [by that point] mentioned them by name. Have I missed deleted comments?
    edited April 2020 Beatsbaconstangronn
  • Reply 24 of 80
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    gilly33 said:
    Typical coming out of Washington. I have no confidence in these damn politicians no matter what party they represent. This crisis has further exposed how f**ked up the system is and both parties have been playing with the public’s interest long before this. This is still the greatest country in the world in my opinion but what a joke we are right now. But it’s easier to pretend they care about our privacy. Both parties need to be held accountable for this debacle and whole thing needs an overall. How and when that will ever happen is another story. Just my two cents. 
    “Greatest country in the world” is nationalism. Be a patriot, not a nationalist.
    baconstang
  • Reply 25 of 80
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    gatorguy said:
    cincytee said:
    ITGUYINSD said:
    The article didn't state which party the Senator belongs to, so I looked it up.  No surprise here.  'Nuf said.
    The party agitating against stay-at-home orders and physical distancing as part of the president's reelection effort (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/us/politics/coronavirus-protests-trump.html) says it's not getting enough help spying on us. Of course this is about coronavirus and not breaking privacy protections.

    FWIW the Federal government cannot order any states to "reopen their economies" nor to remain quarantined for that matter. Some states never have issued stay at home orders. That's up to each individual state to decide and here's where each of them stand on the issue. 
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/us/states-reopen-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

    Personally I think what Apple and Google have designed is just about ideal from a privacy standpoint and have no idea why any US Senator or Congressman would be attempting to undermine it. We should be coming together, not looking for specious reasons to split apart.
    You think it’s “just about ideal” ... based on having seen a third-party privacy specialist’s examination of the tool? 
    civa
  • Reply 26 of 80
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 1,036member
     This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
    I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
    Beatscivabaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 80
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member

    gentooguy said:
    The people who are asking "why did Apple partner with Google on this anyway!" ... are forgetting that less than half of all smartphone users in the US run Android. Another thing ... we have to consider "expertise" here. While Apple is great at taking their time to come out with excellent things on the hardware and UX/UI design front, the ability to rapidly come out with software and services isn't their wheelhouse. Never has been. And that is precisely what software companies like Google and before them Microsoft exploited. The idea that Apple was going to get a complex software/services initiative like this off the ground in weeks as opposed to years ... they don't have the track record. If it wasn't Google - who has a very good knowledge of iOS because they are a leading app developer on that platform as well as its default search provider - it would have had to have been Microsoft, Facebook or some other company that Apple fans would have found just as distasteful. From the perspective of people who agree with this effort - I agree that not everyone does and their concerns are valid - this app is something that was needed on multiple platforms and hardware types yesterday (even in a clunky and imperfect form) and not refined, tuned and perfectly engineered into a single ecosystem stack two years from now. Google's wheelhouse is the former, Apple excels at the latter, and no use pretending otherwise.
    Uh, no. You can get a tool out fast and critically flawed, or you can get it out slow and less flawed. Neither company has a good RECENT track record for low-flaw expediency.
    civabaconstang
  • Reply 28 of 80
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,281member
    dysamoria said:
    gatorguy said:
    cincytee said:
    ITGUYINSD said:
    The article didn't state which party the Senator belongs to, so I looked it up.  No surprise here.  'Nuf said.
    The party agitating against stay-at-home orders and physical distancing as part of the president's reelection effort (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/us/politics/coronavirus-protests-trump.html) says it's not getting enough help spying on us. Of course this is about coronavirus and not breaking privacy protections.

    FWIW the Federal government cannot order any states to "reopen their economies" nor to remain quarantined for that matter. Some states never have issued stay at home orders. That's up to each individual state to decide and here's where each of them stand on the issue. 
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/15/us/states-reopen-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

    Personally I think what Apple and Google have designed is just about ideal from a privacy standpoint and have no idea why any US Senator or Congressman would be attempting to undermine it. We should be coming together, not looking for specious reasons to split apart.
    You think it’s “just about ideal” ... based on having seen a third-party privacy specialist’s examination of the tool? 
    Yes, third party security companies have commented on it, and "near ideal" is the proper way to describe it IMO. What other method might you propose for contact tracing that would be a better way of doing it? What is your source and do you believe the Apple/Google method is more of a danger to privacy than some other implementation would be?

    On second thought maybe I'm asking you the wrong question: Do you think we should be doing contact tracking at all?

    IMO, and others share my opinion, if anything the emphasis on privacy could make the effort less successful than it potentially could be. That's still to be seen since the implementation will be done by individual health organizations, Apple and Google are simply designing the framework.

    EDIT: Wired has a nicely done article without a bunch of unrealistic over the top 'what-ifs". 
    https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-strengths-weaknesses/

    Then there's this article written by lawyers, and complaining that the effectiveness will be reduced because the Apple/Google plan is TOO focused on privacy.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/problem-google-and-apples-covid-19-tracking-plan
    edited April 2020
  • Reply 29 of 80
    Simple solution.
    Abandon the project.
    Let more people die.
    Cull the herd.

    Beats
  • Reply 30 of 80
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).
    civajony0mattinoz
  • Reply 31 of 80
    AppleishAppleish Posts: 696member
    I trust Tim Apple's judgement over this random yahoo.
    Beatsbaconstang
  • Reply 32 of 80
    Go for it, Tim!  But only on the condition that CEOs from FaceCrook, Scroogle, and other privacy inept organizations do the same for their active products. Oh what a show that would be.
    Beatsjony0
  • Reply 33 of 80
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,281member
    linkman said:
     This program could theoretically be used for nefarious purposes, and ad targeting, after the pandemic subsides.
    I would be fairly certain that Google would be using the program for ad targeting immediately.
    You intend to be part of the problem rather than the solution I see. It's a shame we can't make a wager on it as I would be 100% certain you are wrong. Unless you are advocating for no contact tracing whatsoever what alternative are you suggesting?
    edited April 2020 tmay
  • Reply 34 of 80
    I am all for corporate accountability and I’m all for privacy protection. The good Senator of all people is in the best position to do these things. Rather than write to CEOs of publicly owned companies asking them police themselves why doesn’t he introduce legislation that does this? Why doesn’t he do his f-ing job rather than publicity stunts and grandstanding?
  • Reply 35 of 80
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Why are politics suddenly concerned about privacy, especially criticizing the most secure company in the world? Is it because they're being locked out of data?

    dysamoria said:
    Can anyone tell me the last time a corporation’s CEO was actually held personally accountable for anything the corporation did? We had corporate executives literally crash our economy and no one went to jail (or did I miss something?).

    It's APPLE. They're held to a different standard. Goog invades my privacy daily but this fu**face looks the other way.

    baconstangronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 80
    gilly33gilly33 Posts: 437member
    dysamoria said:
    gilly33 said:
    Typical coming out of Washington. I have no confidence in these damn politicians no matter what party they represent. This crisis has further exposed how f**ked up the system is and both parties have been playing with the public’s interest long before this. This is still the greatest country in the world in my opinion but what a joke we are right now. But it’s easier to pretend they care about our privacy. Both parties need to be held accountable for this debacle and whole thing needs an overall. How and when that will ever happen is another story. Just my two cents. 
    “Greatest country in the world” is nationalism. Be a patriot, not a nationalist.
    Obviously you misunderstood my meaning of greatest country. I’m not talking about a centralized government or parties. I’m talking about the idea of free enterprise and checks and balances the founding fathers established in this great experiment of self-government. I’m talking about Americans no matter what race who for the most part are an amazing people and the rights and freedoms so many have fought for and given their lives for in this country’s short history. I’m taking about the potential that makes this country great. I’m taking about the fact that we can get on AI and criticize or critique or leaders local or federal and so far no one in government puts a muzzle on us. How these kinds of freedom will last I don’t know. As I said just my opinion. And a civics expert I’m not. Cheers. 
  • Reply 36 of 80
    civaciva Posts: 78member
    macgui said:
    tbsteph said:
    Seems like most of the existing commenters thus far are more concerned about the party affiliation of Sen Hawley than the concerns he raised. 
    Uh, no.
    Actually, yes
  • Reply 38 of 80
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    qwerty52 said:
    Apple should never go in such a project together with Google. It is damaging for Apple’s reputation!
    100% RIGHT. Last time they did this, Google stole Apple's data and created knockoff Apple products soon after known as Android, illegally. Then demanded Apple user's data.

    Apple is trying to do this for the greater good but the reality is, you can't dance with the devil with good intentions. This tracking software should be an Apple exclusive. With Apples innovation and privacy let Apple users enjoy this.
    qwerty52
  • Reply 39 of 80
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    I am all for corporate accountability and I’m all for privacy protection. The good Senator of all people is in the best position to do these things. Rather than write to CEOs of publicly owned companies asking them police themselves why doesn’t he introduce legislation that does this? Why doesn’t he do his f-ing job rather than publicity stunts and grandstanding?
    Because this clown is bad at his job. So he goes for publicity. 
    baconstang
  • Reply 40 of 80
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,768member
    The senator sounds reasonable. 

    If you want to use this pandemic to be so invasive, then it better be locked down. And if it isn’t, you need to answer for it. 

    I trust Apple far more than google but they’ve broken that trust enough times to be ok with expecting better. 
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