MplsP said: Using warranty length as an estimate of quality is dicey at best but in this situation, Apple extended the warranty on one specific part of the computer after the fact. That is almost universally an indication of problems.
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Apple may be 100% right that only a small number of people have/had issues, but for a component like a keyboard that typically has near perfect reliability, it doesn't take a lot of problems to move the needle. Say there is a 3% failure rate. That's pretty high but still means you would still have greater than a 90% chance of having no problems with 3 computers.
Per the warranty comparison, Apple is a company that has consistently rated highly for customer satisfaction with its products. That includes being at the top of reliability lists for Consumer Reports and PC Magazine for laptops during the butterfly mechanism era. As a result, it's not that far-fetched to think Apple could have chosen to extend the keyboard repair program out of confidence rather than a lack of confidence. And like I said, AppleInsider has stated that their own stats on repairs show 2016 as being the exception for the butterfly MBPs, not the rule. The three following years appear to have been much more routine when it came to keyboard repairs, despite the repair program being extended.
As for the "a component like a keyboard that typically has near perfect reliability"...what is that based on? Keyboards are one of the most likely pieces of hardware to have problems due to the fact that they're exposed to the air and manually handled by the user. That could mean thousands of keystrokes per day and all kinds of dust/particles and dirt/crumbs etc. A quick internet search will show that keyboard problems are quite common for both Macs and PCs.
Apple chasing to extend the warranty out of confidence? Sorry, that's incredibly far-fetched. What company retroactively extends the warranty of a single component by several years simply because they are 'confident?' And when has Apple ever done this in the past? Never, except when there have been problems. They extended the warranty on all butterfly keyboards because they needed to after the keyboards got such a bad reputation. I completely agree that Apple generally makes quality products. That's part of the reason I buy them, but the butterfly keyboard in my 2016 MBP is an exception.
As far as keyboard reliability goes, when you consider the use and abuse they face, keyboards are incredibly common (assuming you don't spill your coffee on it.) My 2011 MBA finally died a year ago when the screen gave out. The keyboard (and the rest of the machine) still worked perfectly. Not one single failure over 8 years and hundreds to thousands of hours of use. I'm using the wired keyboard I got with my 2008 iMac. It still works perfectly. My Logitech iPad Pro keyboard from 2015 has never had an issue even though I routinely use it while eating breakfast and get crumbs all over it. We have 5 iMacs at work with keyboards ranging from 9 years old to 1 year old. the only time we've had a problem is when there was a spill. Contrast that with my 2016 MBP - I had more problems with that keyboard in the first year than all other keyboards combined. I stand by my statement. 'Acceptable' keyboard failure rates are incredibly low.
I think you missed the main point - $800 to fix a fleck of dust under a key.
It was a total 100% complete failure of industrial design. Nothing should ever be designed that way. It’s like designing a car that requires $23,000 to fix a flat tire because they connected it to the engine - and the tires go flat if they get a pebble in the tread.
This.
And yes, those who avoided the pebble you were lucky. I paid more for that laptop than any other such device in my history, and the space bar and keys would decide to work or not. Replacement helped, but still the issue would sometimes return,. Compressed air was needed around all the time. And the feel was not ideal. Most disappointing Apple purchase I ever made.
MplsP said: Apple chasing to extend the warranty out of confidence? Sorry, that's incredibly far-fetched. What company retroactively extends the warranty of a single component by several years simply because they are 'confident?' And when has Apple ever done this in the past?
It's not far-fetched. There has been major tech media attention on supposed engineering failures with Apple products in the past that have turned out to be incorrect. The iPhone 4 antenna was hyped up as being a flawed design. That was proven to be false. The iPhone 6 Plus frame was hyped up as being structurally unsound. That was proven to be false. Both of those false issues had huge tech media coverage, very similar to what went on with the butterfly keyboard design. People tried to hype up the 2018 iPad Pro as being structurally unsound, but that fizzled out more quickly due to it being a repeat of the already debunked iPhone 6 Plus stuff.
And, again, the numbers that AppleInsider has put together show normal repair levels for the final three model years of the butterfly mechanism, despite the repair program extension. That points to a problem in 2016, but what kind of problem was it? Not the overall butterfly design, since it seemed to work as expected in the following years. iFixit stated in 2017 that the newer model keyboard appeared to be largely the same, but that the switch for the mechanism looked like it had been updated...so possibly a switch problem rather than the scissor vs butterfly mechanism design arguments that raged in the tech press.
Don't take the advice in this article and buy a 2019 macbook. The keyboard is just as bad as the older models. If a customer has the issue once, and it is fixed after replacing the part that's one thing. But when the same issue recurs after the 3 keyboard replacements in 3 months, it is just a bad design and a total disaster. And no, I wasn't using it some high dust environments. Still have a bad butterfly keyboard, just got tired of getting it replaced. Planning to sell it off and get the new 2020 macbook.
I have a late 2016 MBP and while the keyboard operates fine and has never given me any mechanical trouble, the tops of several keys have worn away. I could sort of understand the home row keys because that's where I rest my fingers, by why the "N" key?
Sad part was it took 4 years for mighy Apple to replace it. Early last year I bought 2018 15" butterfly keyboard Macbook Pro(before 16" came out) for my daughter and worry about the keyboard. Apple extended the warranty for 4 years but that time can pass and keyboard problems can show up right after that time and $800 to fix it.
I would say, Apple should fix the butterfly keyboard problem longer like 8 years or figure out replacing it with magic keyboard.
There were some things we lost in going back, too. I liked how premium they looked with the per-keycap LED glowing under the key marking rather than bleeding out under the key cap, we're back to the latter now with only edge lit LEDs lighting a mesh under the keys
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As far as keyboard reliability goes, when you consider the use and abuse they face, keyboards are incredibly common (assuming you don't spill your coffee on it.) My 2011 MBA finally died a year ago when the screen gave out. The keyboard (and the rest of the machine) still worked perfectly. Not one single failure over 8 years and hundreds to thousands of hours of use. I'm using the wired keyboard I got with my 2008 iMac. It still works perfectly. My Logitech iPad Pro keyboard from 2015 has never had an issue even though I routinely use it while eating breakfast and get crumbs all over it. We have 5 iMacs at work with keyboards ranging from 9 years old to 1 year old. the only time we've had a problem is when there was a spill. Contrast that with my 2016 MBP - I had more problems with that keyboard in the first year than all other keyboards combined. I stand by my statement. 'Acceptable' keyboard failure rates are incredibly low.
And yes, those who avoided the pebble you were lucky. I paid more for that laptop than any other such device in my history, and the space bar and keys would decide to work or not. Replacement helped, but still the issue would sometimes return,. Compressed air was needed around all the time. And the feel was not ideal. Most disappointing Apple purchase I ever made.
And, again, the numbers that AppleInsider has put together show normal repair levels for the final three model years of the butterfly mechanism, despite the repair program extension. That points to a problem in 2016, but what kind of problem was it? Not the overall butterfly design, since it seemed to work as expected in the following years. iFixit stated in 2017 that the newer model keyboard appeared to be largely the same, but that the switch for the mechanism looked like it had been updated...so possibly a switch problem rather than the scissor vs butterfly mechanism design arguments that raged in the tech press.