Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app.
I'm pretty sure someone is misinformed. I believe if a person crawled out of a cave after 30 years of isolation and purchased an iPhone they could download, install, and meaningfully use the Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, and Gmail apps without paying a dime outside the app itself. That's what free trials are for. The fact (as I understand it) that Hey doesn't do this is their own foolishness.
I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app.
I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.
No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app.
I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.
No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store.
He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.
I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
The Gmail app doesn't function unless you sign up to Gmail. Apple aren't demanding 30% of Google revenues from the ads they deliver from privacy scraping your mailbox though.
Hey should allow sign up to the free trial through the app, then send the user an email to subscribe on the website a few days before the trial is up.
You aren't required to pay $99.00 up front to use Gmail either... That changes the comparison a bit..
Users must first pay a $99 fee on the Hey website, a subscription that is not offered in-app.
You're required to pay a fee before Netflix works though, and even though they have no IAP for the subscription that's apparently ok. Probably because Apple's removal of Netflix for not giving them 30% would cause uproar and Apple would look stupid, even if it is Netflix not following the rules. I have no idea why there are so many people here who would defend Apple to the ends of the Earth no matter what they did, makes no sense that they're so butthurt that the most valuable company in the world may be overcharging fees in the same way they overcharge for their Macs. It's not like they're exactly struggling to survive, whereas a lot of devs probably are. The arrogance of Apple as of late is really beginning to irk me.
Netflix paid a fee to Apple before they didn't. And they created an app with Apple before they didn't pay. Also, they're a "rental" service: They're passing through a cost (plus profit) to the end user. Hey isn't that, now is it?
The Gmail app doesn't function unless you sign up to Gmail. Apple aren't demanding 30% of Google revenues from the ads they deliver from privacy scraping your mailbox though.
Hey should allow sign up to the free trial through the app, then send the user an email to subscribe on the website a few days before the trial is up.
You aren't required to pay $99.00 up front to use Gmail either... That changes the comparison a bit..
Users must first pay a $99 fee on the Hey website, a subscription that is not offered in-app.
It changes the comparison in that it makes Apple’s argument look dumb. Lots of email accounts require subscription fees, but Apple don’t demand a cut when you add them to Mail. And For a privacy focussed company they’re curiously silent about the privacy costs of using apps and services of privacy-threatening rivals.
Regarding Hey, it’s an email app, you don’t require the app to use the service and there is no reason Apple should have any claim to the subscription fee. They’re just being dicks.
I think Basecamp could probably tweak the app start up to circumvent the rules, but they shouldn’t have to because the rules are straight up dumb.
Maybe it makes Apple's argument look dumb to you. Not to me. If I download an App that DOESN'T TELL ME it's going to cost me, that's false advertising. Of course, Hey will tell you it's not their fault, because Apple won't LET Hey tell you. Which Apple won't allow because it's then advertising Hey for free on Apple's App Store. Which makes perfect sense from Apple's perspective. And mine.
@sergioz You ever used Basecamp? Seems like you are talking out of your a$$ about fake reviews, publicity stunts and the like as they are a legitimate company that offers a useful product. I don’t believe I would pay $99 for an email client but used Basecamp for years.
I think about the comment every time I see his Shiller’s name. Hopefully his ass can innovate faster MBP’s that can compete with high end PC’s in terms of raw processing speed. Has AI done a real review of the new graphics card option vs say a Razor Blade (not talking about like that odd comparison they did where I am not sure they even had a RB 17”)?
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase. Are you under the obligation to make that in-app purchase? Absolutely not ! You may purchase a Netflix account on Netflix web site as well. In order to make that external purchase work, Netflix is required to offer the same purchase options in the AppStore too. Once you offer in-app purchases, you are free to sell your thing wherever you want ! Offer the in-app purchase option, then make your own advertising and lead people to your web site to sell accounts? There is nothing that prevents such marketing efforts in the AppStore.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
I don’t get how they feel entitled to be exempted from the rules.
“There is never in a million years a way that I am paying Apple a third of our revenues,” seems to translate to, “There is never in a million years a way that I am letting Apple Pay us all the money we would earn from having the App available for iOS.”
Hey is a fancy email app do you want it? It’s $99 and Hey gives you fancy organization features and you can go through your email fast and scroll it like instagram, you know you want it! Ha ha
It’s a publicity stunt, great way to launch a new service. I think it’s working for them. They will pay the fee gladly once customers come knocking. Good for them!
You should read all the fake 5 star reviews also! Ha ha people who actually download and try using, can’t do anything.
Obviously this email service is useless garbage.
That's not the point. Apple taking 30% is highway robbery.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app.
I'm pretty sure someone is misinformed. I believe if a person crawled out of a cave after 30 years of isolation and purchased an iPhone they could download, install, and meaningfully use the Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, and Gmail apps without paying a dime outside the app itself. That's what free trials are for. The fact (as I understand it) that Hey doesn't do this is their own foolishness.
The Gmail app doesn't function unless you sign up to Gmail. Apple aren't demanding 30% of Google revenues from the ads they deliver from privacy scraping your mailbox though.
Hey should allow sign up to the free trial through the app, then send the user an email to subscribe on the website a few days before the trial is up.
You aren't required to pay $99.00 up front to use Gmail either... That changes the comparison a bit..
Users must first pay a $99 fee on the Hey website, a subscription that is not offered in-app.
It changes the comparison in that it makes Apple’s argument look dumb. Lots of email accounts require subscription fees, but Apple don’t demand a cut when you add them to Mail. And For a privacy focussed company they’re curiously silent about the privacy costs of using apps and services of privacy-threatening rivals.
Regarding Hey, it’s an email app, you don’t require the app to use the service and there is no reason Apple should have any claim to the subscription fee. They’re just being dicks.
I think Basecamp could probably tweak the app start up to circumvent the rules, but they shouldn’t have to because the rules are straight up dumb.
Maybe it makes Apple's argument look dumb to you. Not to me. If I download an App that DOESN'T TELL ME it's going to cost me, that's false advertising. Of course, Hey will tell you it's not their fault, because Apple won't LET Hey tell you. Which Apple won't allow because it's then advertising Hey for free on Apple's App Store. Which makes perfect sense from Apple's perspective. And mine.
Boo hoo, you downloaded an app on a misunderstanding. Big deal, delete the app. It's only false advertising in a meaningful sense if you've paid money, or otherwise given something up. At most this takes a bit of time and data, nothing more. Big deal.
Moreover, if that's your big worry, then why not allow Hey to be on the App Store, on the proviso that they keep a strapline of "THIS APP REQUIRES A SUBSCRIPTION". You know, like Netflix doesn't have and you don't have a problem with.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
"iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers. If you are currently billed by iTunes, you can continue to use iTunes billing until your account is cancelled."
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
Netflix benefits from a "reader" app "immunity" and as such, it may not fit exactly into the general scheme "offer in-app purchases and sell wherever you want". The rules make a clear distinction between reader apps and other types of apps:
"Guideline 3.1.3(a) - Business - Payments - "Reader" Apps....."
"Guideline 3.1.3(b) - Business - Payments - Multiplatform Services
Apps that operate services across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or on your website, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. Your HEY Email app does not offer access to content, subscriptions, or features as in-app purchases within the app. In fact, the app does not function as an email app or for any purpose until the user goes to the Basecamp Hey Email website to start a free trial or purchase a separate license to use the app for its intended purpose."
Even if Netflix does not accept iTunes payments, its case is different from that Hey's which doesn't offer any content to be qualified as a "reader" app. The payment options allowed to Netflix are irrelevant to Hey.
Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase.
I don't think so. You have to go to their website to sign up AFAIK
Netflix benefits from a "reader" app "immunity" and as such, it may not fit exactly into the general scheme "offer in-app purchases and sell wherever you want". The rules make a clear distinction between reader apps and other types of apps:
"Guideline 3.1.3(a) - Business - Payments - "Reader" Apps....."
"Guideline 3.1.3(b) - Business - Payments - Multiplatform Services
Apps that operate services across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or on your website, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. Your HEY Email app does not offer access to content, subscriptions, or features as in-app purchases within the app. In fact, the app does not function as an email app or for any purpose until the user goes to the Basecamp Hey Email website to start a free trial or purchase a separate license to use the app for its intended purpose."
Even if Netflix does not accept iTunes payments, its case is different from that Hey's which doesn't offer any content to be qualified as a "reader" app. The payment options allowed to Netflix are irrelevant to Hey.
I don't disagree. I was just pointing out you were wrong when it came to Netflix and initiating a subscription via an in-app purchase. Apple has carved out some special exceptions tho it seems somewhat arbitrary, designed for the benefit of certain high-profile apps that Apple wants to keep around.
Comments
I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.
I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/12/28/netflix-kills-in-app-subscription-option-for-iphone-ipad-users
Ok, boomer.
Moreover, if that's your big worry, then why not allow Hey to be on the App Store, on the proviso that they keep a strapline of "THIS APP REQUIRES A SUBSCRIPTION". You know, like Netflix doesn't have and you don't have a problem with.
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097
"iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers. If you are currently billed by iTunes, you can continue to use iTunes billing until your account is cancelled."
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097
"Guideline 3.1.3(a) - Business - Payments - "Reader" Apps....."
"Guideline 3.1.3(b) - Business - Payments - Multiplatform Services
Apps that operate services across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or on your website, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. Your HEY Email app does not offer access to content, subscriptions, or features as in-app purchases within the app. In fact, the app does not function as an email app or for any purpose until the user goes to the Basecamp Hey Email website to start a free trial or purchase a separate license to use the app for its intended purpose."
Even if Netflix does not accept iTunes payments, its case is different from that Hey's which doesn't offer any content to be qualified as a "reader" app. The payment options allowed to Netflix are irrelevant to Hey.
The CEO is absurd
Like he just can’t handle the fact that Apple won’t give him free money
Go Away