Phil Schiller says no App Store policy changes coming after 'Hey' drama

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 52
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
  • Reply 42 of 52
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    https://flutter.dev/
  • Reply 43 of 52
    CheeseFreezeCheeseFreeze Posts: 1,247member
    Based on what I see in this article, I have to side with Apple. If the app does nothing unless you pay, then it falls under the category of “an app with no function”. If it’s an email app, then it should be able to be used as such. Like the Outlook app. It’s able to use any email service, not just the 365 provider. So in the case of Hey, yeah, they need to make adjustments. 
    How can you “side with Apple” on this? You’re just quoting their TOS. The whole discussion is not about whether they are following their TOS, but whether their TOS is acceptable to begin with. 
    bulk001
  • Reply 44 of 52
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    He's a shitty business developer if he gambled his whole company on not reading the Apple terms of service before putting all his eggs in one basket.

    Besides, most people today use frameworks that are pretty much multi-plattform when developing apps; so either he fairly easily can release an Android app, or we're back to that whole "all eggs"-thing…
  • Reply 45 of 52
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 764member
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login).
    How so? When you launch Netflix you login and start immediately to watch. Don't have a Netflix account? Then you make an in-app purchase. Are you under the obligation to make that in-app purchase? Absolutely not ! You may purchase a Netflix account on Netflix web site as well. In order to make that external purchase work, Netflix is required to offer the same purchase options in the AppStore too. Once you offer in-app purchases, you are free to sell your thing wherever you want ! Offer the in-app purchase option, then make your own advertising and lead people to your web site to sell accounts? There is nothing that prevents such marketing efforts in the AppStore. 
    Because you have to sign up outside of the app and pay. Just like they want to do with this app. 
  • Reply 46 of 52
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 764member
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 
    I'm pretty sure someone is misinformed.  I believe if a person crawled out of a cave after 30 years of isolation and purchased an iPhone they could download, install, and meaningfully use the Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, and Gmail apps without paying a dime outside the app itself.  That's what free trials are for.  The fact (as I understand it) that Hey doesn't do this is their own foolishness.

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    Welcome caveman. With Netflix you pay on the Netflix site and login on the app downloaded from the App Store. This is what they want to do and Apple won’t l allow it. Before you go out trying to insult people make sure you understand the issue and don’t make a fool of yourself.  
  • Reply 47 of 52
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    He's a shitty business developer if he gambled his whole company on not reading the Apple terms of service before putting all his eggs in one basket.

    Besides, most people today use frameworks that are pretty much multi-plattform when developing apps; so either he fairly easily can release an Android app, or we're back to that whole "all eggs"-thing…
    Right if that's the case, why was his app approved in the first place? Moving the goalposts isn't ok. 

    Ah so you obviously have no clue how programs are written. "most people" do use some "multi platform" frameworks, but those are usually for a small area of specific functionality. Most apps use Apple's own APIs extensively, some of which have equivalence on Android, but there is no direct conversion possible. You can't just "fairly easily" rewrite the entire app from Swift to Java. All eggs? You just proved in one quip exactly the problem, devs have no choice but to put all their eggs in one basket if they want to be on iOS.
  • Reply 48 of 52
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    He's a shitty business developer if he gambled his whole company on not reading the Apple terms of service before putting all his eggs in one basket.

    Besides, most people today use frameworks that are pretty much multi-plattform when developing apps; so either he fairly easily can release an Android app, or we're back to that whole "all eggs"-thing…
    Right if that's the case, why was his app approved in the first place? Moving the goalposts isn't ok. 

    Ah so you obviously have no clue how programs are written. "most people" do use some "multi platform" frameworks, but those are usually for a small area of specific functionality. Most apps use Apple's own APIs extensively, some of which have equivalence on Android, but there is no direct conversion possible. You can't just "fairly easily" rewrite the entire app from Swift to Java. All eggs? You just proved in one quip exactly the problem, devs have no choice but to put all their eggs in one basket if they want to be on iOS.
    It's not like they're forced to use punchcards to write an email app in assembler to get it efficient enough for iOS… https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hybrid+app+development
  • Reply 49 of 52
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    He's a shitty business developer if he gambled his whole company on not reading the Apple terms of service before putting all his eggs in one basket.

    Besides, most people today use frameworks that are pretty much multi-plattform when developing apps; so either he fairly easily can release an Android app, or we're back to that whole "all eggs"-thing…
    Right if that's the case, why was his app approved in the first place? Moving the goalposts isn't ok. 

    Ah so you obviously have no clue how programs are written. "most people" do use some "multi platform" frameworks, but those are usually for a small area of specific functionality. Most apps use Apple's own APIs extensively, some of which have equivalence on Android, but there is no direct conversion possible. You can't just "fairly easily" rewrite the entire app from Swift to Java. All eggs? You just proved in one quip exactly the problem, devs have no choice but to put all their eggs in one basket if they want to be on iOS.
    It's not like they're forced to use punchcards to write an email app in assembler to get it efficient enough for iOS… https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hybrid+app+development
    So they shouldn't use Apple's APIs and make the experience for iOS users the best it can be because Apple might not approve it. Instead its better to have a low quality hybridised app in case Apple doesn't approve your app. Right, yeah that makes loads of sense. Again results in a sub-par experience for iOS users.

  • Reply 50 of 52
    svanstromsvanstrom Posts: 702member
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    svanstrom said:
    elijahg said:
    bulk001 said:
    Schiller would seem to be misinformed. Lots of consumer apps don’t work when you download them. Netflix, Hulu, Gmail etc come to mind. Also the Amazon app - you can add things to your cart and then leave the app and pay (it also doesn’t work till you login). Maybe Hey needs to sell a $99 login on their site that you buy and then use. 30% seems a steep price to pay but so is the expectation that it should just be free and/or unmoderated (the chrome issues show the wisdom in some sort of walls around the garden though even there Apple has has its own failures). In the end it is the consumer who stands to lose either by not being able to use an app as it is pulled or because the dev charges more to cover the fees or they have to go through a convoluted way to pay for the app. 

    I wonder if the Bootcamp CEO would be ranting and raving about Best Buy and Amazon taking a chunk of their revenue if they sold shrink wrapped copies of their software.  
    No because if he didn't like the amount Amazon were taking, he'd go to a different store with the exact same product and try there instead. Can't do that on iOS, because there is no other store. 
    He can't do that on iOS, just like he can't go to a different store within Amazon or a different store within Walmart if rejected by them; so unless happy with the cut that Walmart etc takes, then the only option is to not sell to the loyal Walmart customers.

    I'm sure he'll find the lack of the "Apple tax" very good for his business as he focuses on the Android market instead.
    You seem to be confused. He can't go to a different store "within Amazon" no, but he can go to a different store outside of Amazon with the exact same product and sell it just as he would have sold to Amazon. He can't take the same product to Google, because he'd have to rewrite it from the ground up for Android.
    He's a shitty business developer if he gambled his whole company on not reading the Apple terms of service before putting all his eggs in one basket.

    Besides, most people today use frameworks that are pretty much multi-plattform when developing apps; so either he fairly easily can release an Android app, or we're back to that whole "all eggs"-thing…
    Right if that's the case, why was his app approved in the first place? Moving the goalposts isn't ok. 

    Ah so you obviously have no clue how programs are written. "most people" do use some "multi platform" frameworks, but those are usually for a small area of specific functionality. Most apps use Apple's own APIs extensively, some of which have equivalence on Android, but there is no direct conversion possible. You can't just "fairly easily" rewrite the entire app from Swift to Java. All eggs? You just proved in one quip exactly the problem, devs have no choice but to put all their eggs in one basket if they want to be on iOS.
    It's not like they're forced to use punchcards to write an email app in assembler to get it efficient enough for iOS… https://lmgtfy.com/?q=hybrid+app+development
    So they shouldn't use Apple's APIs and make the experience for iOS users the best it can be because Apple might not approve it. Instead its better to have a low quality hybridised app in case Apple doesn't approve your app. Right, yeah that makes loads of sense. Again results in a sub-par experience for iOS users.

    He should have started by reading the rules. It's called doing research; it's a fairly common thing to do when launching a new business.

    Also, many of the frameworks out there provide native performance; so nothing "sub-par" about it.
    edited June 2020
  • Reply 51 of 52
    castcorecastcore Posts: 141member
    ‪Fact the Hey App founder @jasonfried gets an anti Business,Abolish police Democrat dog politician to try to help them get around @Apple App Store fees is a joke.Why should Apple offer Hey a free platform? These Democrat founders of Hey wants Apple to give them welfare now?Disgusting!‬
  • Reply 52 of 52
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Alright Donald, keep your hair on.
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