Microsoft fires back at Apple, accusing it of treating gaming apps differently

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 2020
Hour after Apple explained why Microsoft's xCloud wouldn't be coming to iOS, Microsoft shot back and accused the company of "consistently treating gaming apps differently."

Credit: Microsoft
Credit: Microsoft


On Wednesday, Microsoft ended its xCloud TestFlight program on iOS and said that the service would not be arriving on iPhone and iPad. In a statement on Thursday, Apple explained that it bars apps which rely on cloud streaming, per its App Store guidelines.

Microsoft shot back at the Cupertino tech giant later on Thursday, issuing a statement to CNET that accused Apple of treating gaming apps unfairly compared to other apps on its app marketplace.

"Apple stands alone as the only general purpose platform to deny customers from cloud gaming and game subscription services like Xbox Game Pass," a Microsoft spokesperson said. "And, it consistently treats gaming apps differently, applying more lenient rules to non-gaming apps even when they include interactive content."

Microsoft admitted that it doesn't currently have a path to bring its gaming service to the App Store. However, it also said that "we are committed to finding a path to bring cloud gaming with Xbox Game Pass Ultimate to the iOS platform."

"We believe that the customer should be at the heart of the gaming experience, and gamers tell us they want to play, connect, and share anywhere, no matter where they are," Microsoft added.

The specific rule in Apple's App Store guidelines that prohibits gaming apps from offering a catalog of games streamed from the cloud is guideline 3.1.2(a), which says that "each game must be downloaded directly from the App Store."

Apple's own Apple Arcade is subject to the same rules. Instead of streaming the catalog from Apple servers, users must individually download each Apple Arcade game directly to their device before playing them.

As AppleInsider reported in March 2020, gaming services also can't offer any third-party games -- which would limit the number of titles available on platforms like Google Stadia or Microsoft xCloud.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 56
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    xyzzy01
  • Reply 2 of 56
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,534member
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    InspiredCodeCloudTalkinxyzzy01digital_guyCheeseFreeze
  • Reply 3 of 56
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,273member
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    mwhiteBeatspscooter63MacQcaderutterStrangeDays
  • Reply 4 of 56
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,737member
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    Exactly.  Microsoft is being a hypocrite when one realizes Microsoft is (arguably) even more stringent about the Xbox Live store.  
    Beatspscooter63MacQcaderutterStrangeDays
  • Reply 5 of 56
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    Apple isn't on point.  It is their platform and their rules, but that doesn't make them on point.  Yes you are wrong.  Microsoft has nothing to do with Sony games not streaming on XBox.  Sony ain't letting their exclusive IP play on XBoxes.  If Sony would let it happen, MS would sacrifice virgins to be able to have games like Uncharted, God of War, or the Last of US on their console.  That's not to say they won't play nice in the future since the groundwork is already being laid.  https://news.microsoft.com/2019/05/16/sony-and-microsoft-to-explore-strategic-partnership/  But make no mistake, that ball is firmly in Sony's court to play.  

    Your dev theory makes no sense at all. Any dev wanting to code on either platform can do so now, without restriction. iOS and XCloud gaming is fundamentally different and targeted at completely different play styles.   No disrespect to iOS devs, but why would MS want to woo them?  It's not like they have any AAA game development experience.  They have experience primarily in mobile game development.  That's not what XCloud is about.  It's about bring the AAA experience to any and every device possible.  They're trying to bring Red Dead Redemption 2 and it's gargantuan 100+GB file size to iPads.
    InspiredCodemuthuk_vanalingamxyzzy01elijahg
  • Reply 6 of 56
    sflocal said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    Exactly.  Microsoft is being a hypocrite when one realizes Microsoft is (arguably) even more stringent about the Xbox Live store.  
    That's provably wrong.
    xyzzy01elijahg
  • Reply 7 of 56
    All of you guys are wrong. Let me count the ways.

    1. Quit it with the Microsoft conspiracy theories. Apple also doesn't allow Nvidia GeForce Now or Google Stadia either.

    2. Microsoft does allow the competing EA Access video game streaming service on XBox. So comments like "Microsoft is (arguably) even more stringent about the Xbox Live store." ARE FALSE.

    3. Even if they didn't ... so what? XBox is not a general purpose computing platform. Where are the people running Microsoft Office or Visual Studio on their XBoxes? They have two purposes: video games and home entertainment.

    4. Undermining their own platforms? Don't you realize that xCloud means that no one has to buy their lightweight gaming consoles like the XBox One Slim? Or has to buy the cheap (meaning less than $750) 1080p gaming PCs? Also, thanks to Stadia, there is officially no longer a reason to put anything but a free-with-ads or free-to-play-with-IAPs games on Android anymore. And this is despite Google also offering Apple Arcade clone Google Play Pass! Finally, xCloud, Stadia and GeForce Now are (primarily) for AAA PC and console titles, not the mobile titles that go to iPhones, iPads and even Apple TVs. 

    I have said it in the past. Apple is a hardware company. Their goal is to convince you that you not only want but actually need (for quality, reliability, privacy and security) Apple's hardware. Google from the beginning and now Microsoft under Nadella are software companies. Their goal is to convince you that you should invest your money and time consuming the best services and it doesn't matter what hardware you access those services from. That's why even Google's hardware efforts - Pixel phones, Chromebooks, Chromecasts - are meant to utilize and show off Google's cloud services. Google is only relaunching the Android TV concept that they basically forgot about - except as a platform for smart TVs - as primarily Chromecast and Stadia devices. (Unlike Apple Arcade and Apple TV, Google is not doing squat with Google Play Pass on Android TV.)

    Microsoft's statement is not meant to pressure or turn up the heat on Apple. Instead, it is about Microsoft's own customers. Microsoft knows that tons of their XBox - and Steam - gaming clientele owns iPhones and iPads. (Android fans tend more towards PlayStation. Why? Simple. Apple dominates profits and mindshare in the US but Android dominates overseas. XBox, similarly, is very big in North America and to a lesser extent western Europe but PlayStation is huge everywhere else.) So their goal is to let all of their iPhone/iPad XBox fans know that Apple is the reason for XBox not being on their mobile platform of choice and not them. The natural instinct is to do what a lot of you guys are doing: blame Microsoft with false claims that if Microsoft really wanted to make it work they could have and their being on Android and not iOS is evidence of some nefarious agenda. Microsoft is letting them know that A) there is nothing that they could do to get xCloud on iOS and B) iOS is the only general purpose computing platform that doesn't allow services like xCloud. And they are 100% true.

    You can agree with Apple's stance all you want. I myself am perfectly fine with it. Were Android devices as expensive as iOS ones it would be a bit harder to swallow, but since you can get an Android device capable of playing xCloud, GeForce Now and Stadia for as little as $100 (and as little as $60 if you are willing to side load Google apps on an Amazon Fire tablet!) then I can't really care. Join the 3 billion+ perfectly satisifed Android customers in getting a cheap Android device solely for this service. You can even recycle your existing XBox account as your Android account, so none of this "Google is going to steal invade my privacy, track me and steal my data!" nonsense. And stay safe inside your private, secure Apple walled garden for everything else.
    InspiredCodeviclauyycWarrenBuffduckhmuthuk_vanalingamxyzzy01digital_guyMacQc
  • Reply 8 of 56
    sflocal said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    Exactly.  Microsoft is being a hypocrite when one realizes Microsoft is (arguably) even more stringent about the Xbox Live store.  
    That's provably wrong.
    You are 100% correct here. Right now, XBox does horribly in Japan, China and South Korea. Were Sony to come to them and say "hey, we want to do a JRPG subscription service on XBox, how much do we have to pay for access?" Microsoft would respond "you don't have to pay us ... we'll pay you!" in a heartbeat. And as I stated earlier, EA offers a subscription gaming service on XBox anyway. So these people are just flat wrong. They are showing that they really don't know anything about the tech world beyond Apple products. As usual.
    InspiredCodeWarrenBuffduckhxyzzy01
  • Reply 9 of 56
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,165member
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. 
    I think the issue is that Apple rules don't allow MS to play.
    I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    I'm not sure that Sony want to stream their games from Xbox, considering that they focus in their exclusive games to sell consoles.  A better example is EA Access, which you can subscribe and use from the XBox,
    https://www.xbox.com/en-US/entertainment/xbox-one/live-apps/ea-access 
    If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. 
    If happens as you said, is because MS did a better job with xCloud than what Apple did with Arcade.  
    Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 
    Have MS showed and sign of loosing interest in their gaming business?
    InspiredCodemuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 10 of 56
    red oakred oak Posts: 888member
    Microsoft is basically trying to create a gaming app store within Apple's App Store.   Why is it so complicated to understand that is not allowed?  

    Android is 85% of the WW market.    Let's see how their launch goes there.   I'll bet you it goes down in flames 
    edited August 2020 tmaypscooter63GabyMacQcaderutter
  • Reply 11 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,532member
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 

    Microsoft wants special treatment that is all.
    aderutter
  • Reply 12 of 56
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,165member
    Beats said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 

    Microsoft wants special treatment that is all.
    MS just want their service in iOS devices, that is all.
    muthuk_vanalingamBeats
  • Reply 13 of 56
    Driving gamers away from the iOS platform right before Apple is likely to release an AR headset that will have a strong focus on gaming isn’t a sound business strategy. You can’t stream latency sensitive AR games from the cloud and Apple is well suited to lead in this emerging market. The App Store is one PR nightmare after another of their own making.
    edited August 2020 Gaby
  • Reply 14 of 56
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,055member
    danvm said:
    Beats said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 

    Microsoft wants special treatment that is all.
    MS just want their service in iOS devices, that is all.
    Giving Congress something to really talk about, that’s all.
    Beats
  • Reply 15 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    danvm said:
    Beats said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 

    Microsoft wants special treatment that is all.
    MS just want their service in iOS devices, that is all.
    Apple just wants to prevent an app from streaming malware all over their ecosystem, that’s all. 
    MacQcaderutterBeats
  • Reply 16 of 56
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,534member
    Rayz2016 said:
    danvm said:
    Beats said:
    genovelle said:
    I agree with Microsoft on this, but Apple (if they say anything) will probably argue they are not a general purpose platform and instead compare themselves to the Xbox store. I really wish Apple would see iOS as the post-PC platform for everything.
    When you have 1.7 million apps on your platform, you don't get the pleasure or the privilege of saying you're not a general purpose platform.  If they did, that would be a BS argument.  MS is the only competitor that has the size and economic clout to go after Apple on this and I'm glad that they're raising the issue regarding Apple's dogmatic handling of the App Store.
    Apple is on point here. If you want to play on our platform play by our rules. I may be wrong, but I’m sure Microsoft is not letting Sony games stream to Xbox. Microsoft can’t be trusted. Why would they undermine their own development platform? If game developers were wooed to this and stopped developing for iOS directly, it would make us dependent on Microsoft like we were for the first Macintosh. Then when Microsoft looses interest like the tend to do, the platform would suffer. 

    Microsoft wants special treatment that is all.
    MS just want their service in iOS devices, that is all.
    Apple just wants to prevent an app from streaming malware all over their ecosystem, that’s all. 
    Do you have evidence that xCloud is malware? Yeah. I didn't think so.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 17 of 56
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,534member
    red oak said:
    Microsoft is basically trying to create a gaming app store within Apple's App Store.   Why is it so complicated to understand that is not allowed?  

    Android is 85% of the WW market.    Let's see how their launch goes there.   I'll bet you it goes down in flames 
    This isn't any different than Netflix trying to create a video content store or Amazon trying to create a Kindle book store on Apple's App Store. Yet they're allowed.
    muthuk_vanalingamdigital_guyBeats
  • Reply 18 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    Driving gamers away from the iOS platform right before Apple is likely to release an AR headset that will have a strong focus on gaming isn’t a sound business strategy. You can’t stream latency sensitive AR games from the cloud and Apple is well suited to lead in this emerging market. The App Store is one PR nightmare after another of their own making.
    It’s a question of perspective. What proportion of Apple's customers even know about the App Store skirmish? I’d be surprised if it made it to double figures. 
    Beats
  • Reply 19 of 56
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    red oak said:
    Microsoft is basically trying to create a gaming app store within Apple's App Store.   Why is it so complicated to understand that is not allowed?  


    Yup, what is not allowed is apps in the App Store that Apple hasn’t checked. It’s as simple as that. Not only would that introduce malware to the store, Apple would have no way of switching it off. 

    red oakaderutterroundaboutnowBeats
  • Reply 20 of 56
    red oak said:
    Microsoft is basically trying to create a gaming app store within Apple's App Store.   Why is it so complicated to understand that is not allowed?  

    Android is 85% of the WW market.    Let's see how their launch goes there.   I'll bet you it goes down in flames 
    No they're not.  What they created is nothing like an app store.  In an app store, you buy and download things.  XCloud is a subscription streaming service like Netflix.  Ironically, Netflix will let you download whereas XCloud is streaming only.  But you get the point.  XCloud is nothing like an app store.  Netflix lets you stream thousands of programs.  XCloud lets you stream approx 100 games.  


    muthuk_vanalingamdigital_guygatorguyelijahg
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