I hate the Chinese government and their attack on American IP. That has nothing to do with the working citizen earnings his/her hard earned pay.
Yet this hate is very recent. Wasn’t Russia the monster last year? Then Libya before that. Iran all the time. Then Iraq, Syria, Venezuela. Anywhere the empire is challenged.
This time though there are conflicting elite interests. A war against Iraq doesn’t harm US industry all that much or even trade sanctions with Iran or whomever. This trade war could cripple US industry, and the US is also at trade war with the EU. Therefore expect industry pushback.
None of this would bring jobs home. Applying tariffs to Foxconn unless they assemble in the US might have helped but this isn’t about that, it’s about “national security” or sabre rattling.
You are correct. The hate is very recent. Some of that is due to the current U.S. President, but most is due to the fact that China has become more repressive, and more militarized, under Xi Jinping. It doesn't help that Hong Kong has a new security law that is extremely repressive, nor that there are numerous human rights violations by the PRC.
I hate the Chinese government and their attack on American IP. That has nothing to do with the working citizen earnings his/her hard earned pay.
Yet this hate is very recent. Wasn’t Russia the monster last year? Then Libya before that. Iran all the time. Then Iraq, Syria, Venezuela. Anywhere the empire is challenged.
This time though there are conflicting elite interests. A war against Iraq doesn’t harm US industry all that much or even trade sanctions with Iran or whomever. This trade war could cripple US industry, and the US is also at trade war with the EU. Therefore expect industry pushback.
None of this would bring jobs home. Applying tariffs to Foxconn unless they assemble in the US might have helped but this isn’t about that, it’s about “national security” or sabre rattling.
You are correct. The hate is very recent. Some of that is due to the current U.S. President, but most is due to the fact that China has become more repressive, and more militarized, under Xi Jinping. It doesn't help that Hong Kong has a new security law that is extremely repressive, nor that there are numerous human rights violations by the PRC.
Do you speak for some NGO? Or this is your personal opinion?
Things are getting nastier by the day as Trump becomes more desperate and listens to the China hawks.
I mentioned the other day that Spanish media were picking up on the requirement that US software not be made available in AppGallery and today they are reporting that these latest moves could provoke a wide ranging counter attack from China given the amount of investments Tencent has worldwide. They are claiming that the damage would be more than US attempts to derail Huawei.
Mind reading is a sign a person has no argument and no information.
May last year. Non-speculative figure on lost Huawei revenues in the U.S tech sector: 11 billion dollars.
Various US companies seeing share price falls and business lost to competitors.
2019. Announcement of GMS replacement by Huawei. All Google Mobile Services (revenue streams) lost on Huawei phones. Revenue going to non-US competitors.
2019. Announcement of HarmonyOS. Already shipping on TVs, watches, routers, cars and coming to PCs this year. Formal announcement of HarmonyOS 2.0 Sept 5th
The other parts of my post can only be speculation at this point because the US hasn't clarified what this means.
However, the damage is already done.
The market fluctuates for all kinds of reasons, and companies that lose customers generally find other customers in a very short time. Given that Huawei is meeting headwinds in the EU for its Telecom equipment, in a major way, I might add, I'd argue that these same U.S. Companies will benefit from increased sourcing to Ericsson, Nokia, and Samsung, and other companies in that pipeline. Then there is also that 5G buildout that is going on in the U.S., which you always denigrate.
More to the point, Huawei is known to use PRC state support to undercut competition, which absolutely has been happening with the knowledge of the EU, and it is illegal. Fortunately, it looks like Huawei is finding increasing resistance in the EU, leaving the 3rd world as it growth base.
Meanwhile, the biggest drag on the U.S. economy has been COVID19, not China, and even as fucked up as the current administration is, the U.S. is a very resilient and innovative country, and still dominates China, and the EU.
Maybe instead of your constant and undying support of Huawei, and the PRC, you might cheer your local teams, Ericsson, Nokia, and Siemens, but whatever.
I support my 'local teams' but as Vodafone's CEO said, having two major 5G players is tantamount to no competition. He said that Huawei was an essential part of keeping competition healthy.
Neither Nokia nor Ericsson have anything like the breadth of Huawei in their business groups and Nokia is on very shaky financial ground. Therefore neither of them even come into consideration in the bigger picture. They just don't have the business or product portfolio that Huawei has.
Huawei has already signed a huge amount of 5G contracts and says it can satisfy them.
Before COVID-19 struck the trade war had decimated US agriculture to the tune of requiring two multi billion dollar hand outs from government. That didn't stop many farms going out of business.
As I said, billions have been lost in revenues to US technology companies (again, pre-COVID) and even if they can recoup some lost business, it is taken away from other companies and directly hits their bottom lines. That, means less to invest in future R&D and less competitiveness against foreign rivals. That is exactly what Qualcomm is claiming in its lobbying efforts.
If Apple were to be forced to remove WeChat access from Chinese phones, it would have a huge impact on iPhone sales and, once again, benefit rivals.
Yet, what I posted about the EU is accurate. Huawei is a unfair competitor due to Government subsidies, so support of Ericsson, Nokia and Samsung is necessary. More to the point, China is an authoritarian state, and what has happened in Hong Kong, the Xinjiang Region, and threats against Taiwan, are turning the West against China.
You might want to note the "National Security" issue that I posted in the link. That you even doubt that there are National Security concerns with Huawei is one of the reasons that I dismiss your POV.
Oh, and of course, there is China's blatant and ongoing influence operations continuing against the West, which belie's "China's Sovereignty" meme.
Heck, China is only using equipment from ZTE and Huawei for its 5G buildout, not because it is better, but because both those companies will support PRC policies.
Huawei is not China.
Huawei is not subsidised by the Chinese government. It receives government incentives in some areas - just like any other company - anywhere.
Huawei also receives grants from other governments, like Spain and the EU. Again, like a ton of other companies.
NOKIA, Ericsson, Cisco etc are all participating in China's 5G although I hear Cisco is being subjected to a rip and replace as a tit-for-tat measure against US actions on Huawei.
You will balk at this but here you go:
You should move to China. You'll love it!
You'll be surrounded by iPhone knockoffs. iPad knockoffs, Airpod knockoffs, App Store knockoffs, Apple Watch knockoffs, Apple Store knockoffs and even Steve Jobs knockoffs:
Please open a new thread for your claims and I will answer them there. I've already pointed out where you are wrong - many, many times.
Then , I will just link you back to your own thread so it is clear how your claims stand up to scrutiny.
And people have pointed out where you are wrong, multiple times, so nothing changes, and it isn't up to us anyway.
You spend your posts, for the most part, defending Huawei. I spend mine, for the most part, posting about all the awful things that the PRC is involved in. Huawei is controlled by the PRC, so you would think I am wasting my time countering you.
You would be wrong. The landscape keeps changing, and it isn't in favor of Huawei, so, I post lots of these changes.
The one common theme is that the West, including the EU, are getting tired of China's brand of authoritarianism, and seasoned pols know that the U.S. can get better politically, but China is on a path that only Mao would approve.
But again. China isn't Huawei. Huawei isn't China.
China is China. Huawei is a Chinese company.
Huawei runs out of Kirin chips in September.
That's news.
It definitely is. We agree on that.
It is a classic case of someone (very probably unhinged and not fully aware of the consequences of his actions) trying to use extraterritorial actions to disrupt world supply chain lines because the opponent is actually far ahead of anything the US has or is likely to have soon.
What we have is a government trying to bring down a private company. Without any evidence whatsoever to back up its varying accusations.
The consequences couldn't be any clearer. When sovereign governments can eliminate their dependency on US technology, they will.
In the case of Huawei they have decided to put their destiny in their own hands. It will take time but not nearly as long as originally planned.
They have decided to accelerate every single area of technological advance that they need.
Hisilicon has been absorbing the best minds in specialist processor related fields for years. Now they have simply opened up massive new lines of R&D to plug the gaps when it comes to fabbing.
And yes, China will be pushing ALL areas of its tech supply chains to reach their goals even earlier than forecast.
Well done Trump! Although he is oblivious to all this and will be long gone by the time his decisions come back to haunt the US.
I hate the Chinese government and their attack on American IP. That has nothing to do with the working citizen earnings his/her hard earned pay.
Yet this hate is very recent. Wasn’t Russia the monster last year? Then Libya before that. Iran all the time. Then Iraq, Syria, Venezuela. Anywhere the empire is challenged.
This time though there are conflicting elite interests. A war against Iraq doesn’t harm US industry all that much or even trade sanctions with Iran or whomever. This trade war could cripple US industry, and the US is also at trade war with the EU. Therefore expect industry pushback.
None of this would bring jobs home. Applying tariffs to Foxconn unless they assemble in the US might have helped but this isn’t about that, it’s about “national security” or sabre rattling.
You are correct. The hate is very recent. Some of that is due to the current U.S. President, but most is due to the fact that China has become more repressive, and more militarized, under Xi Jinping. It doesn't help that Hong Kong has a new security law that is extremely repressive, nor that there are numerous human rights violations by the PRC.
No. It’s due to a cycle of propaganda as the US State realised that China is about to become economically dominant this century. Apparently they couldn’t do the math until now.
Now, show some stories of Uyghur families that have been brought back together, or young Uyghur women who weren't sterilized, or those that weren't send to reeducation camps.
Generally whenever the US empire is on the warpath it monsters its enemies. None of this stuff was reported in any major fashion until the recent trade war. In the opposite side though, once the US leaves a country in misery the flow of information stops. So nothing about the slave markets in Libya.
Problem here is that China can only be defeated by a nuclear war. Which is what some of the US hawks clearly want.
Libya is now a proxy war, so blaming its current status on the U.S. is not completely valid.
I hate the Chinese government and their attack on American IP. That has nothing to do with the working citizen earnings his/her hard earned pay.
Yet this hate is very recent. Wasn’t Russia the monster last year? Then Libya before that. Iran all the time. Then Iraq, Syria, Venezuela. Anywhere the empire is challenged.
This time though there are conflicting elite interests. A war against Iraq doesn’t harm US industry all that much or even trade sanctions with Iran or whomever. This trade war could cripple US industry, and the US is also at trade war with the EU. Therefore expect industry pushback.
None of this would bring jobs home. Applying tariffs to Foxconn unless they assemble in the US might have helped but this isn’t about that, it’s about “national security” or sabre rattling.
You are correct. The hate is very recent. Some of that is due to the current U.S. President, but most is due to the fact that China has become more repressive, and more militarized, under Xi Jinping. It doesn't help that Hong Kong has a new security law that is extremely repressive, nor that there are numerous human rights violations by the PRC.
No. It’s due to a cycle of propaganda as the US State realised that China is about to become economically dominant this century. Apparently they couldn’t do the math until now.
Yes, China was growing very fast just like Apple did. Twenty years ago can you imagine Apple would become a two trillion dollars company? In 2000, Microsoft is a $500 billion dollar company. I argued with my friend that you should not invest in MSFT and hope it doubles. Because it will be a trillion dollar company. That is unimaginable at that time. Unfortunately the US government has spent and spend so much during the last twenty years. Today, a billionaire is very common even Cook has become one. In my honest opinion, this is where the ills of US are rooted.
Now, show some stories of Uyghur families that have been brought back together, or young Uyghur women who weren't sterilized, or those that weren't send to reeducation camps.
Generally whenever the US empire is on the warpath it monsters its enemies. None of this stuff was reported in any major fashion until the recent trade war. In the opposite side though, once the US leaves a country in misery the flow of information stops. So nothing about the slave markets in Libya.
Problem here is that China can only be defeated by a nuclear war. Which is what some of the US hawks clearly want.
Libya is now a proxy war, so blaming its current status on the U.S. is not completely valid.
Now, show some stories of Uyghur families that have been brought back together, or young Uyghur women who weren't sterilized, or those that weren't send to reeducation camps.
Generally whenever the US empire is on the warpath it monsters its enemies. None of this stuff was reported in any major fashion until the recent trade war. In the opposite side though, once the US leaves a country in misery the flow of information stops. So nothing about the slave markets in Libya.
Problem here is that China can only be defeated by a nuclear war. Which is what some of the US hawks clearly want.
Libya is now a proxy war, so blaming its current status on the U.S. is not completely valid.
What’s the point of link dumps without commentary.
And Libya is a proxy war now, but getting rid of Gaddafi has destabilised the entire Mediterranean and region.
Btw the South China Sea is nowhere near Texas.
The U.S. has alliances with Japan, S.Korea, The Philippines, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and various Island nations that became our Pacific Theater of operation after WWII. Since then, the U.S. has maintained it presence throughout the region and this has allowed the free flow of commerce from Asia to the rest of the world for 75 years. Oddly, Texas isn't close to the Indo Pacific region; thank you for alerting me on that.
As for the links, I quite understand that you aren't interested in positing about anything other thatn nuclear war, and don't appear to be versed in any of the military and geopolitical operations that China is engaged in the region.
Trump should be made to produce any evidence he has that these apps pose any danger to America or Americans. So far that evidence consists of two things: 1) American TikTok users humiliated him
2) Trump is using China as a scapegoat and a diversion from his own failures.
If he has anymore evidence then he should present it. But he won't. He can't. Like his smears against Huawei, he has no facts. He has no evidence. Just hate.
There was time before George Bush that America could trust their presidents and have faith in their word. No longer.
Trump should be made to produce any evidence he has that these apps pose any danger to America or Americans. So far that evidence consists of two things: 1) American TikTok users humiliated him
2) Trump is using China as a scapegoat and a diversion from his own failures.
If he has anymore evidence then he should present it. But he won't. He can't. Like his smears against Huawei, he has no facts. He has no evidence. Just hate.
There was time before George Bush that America could trust their presidents and have faith in their word. No longer.
It's interesting that you haven't named, nor implied, a President whom you could trust with their word.
Trump should be made to produce any evidence he has that these apps pose any danger to America or Americans. So far that evidence consists of two things: 1) American TikTok users humiliated him
2) Trump is using China as a scapegoat and a diversion from his own failures.
If he has anymore evidence then he should present it. But he won't. He can't. Like his smears against Huawei, he has no facts. He has no evidence. Just hate.
There was time before George Bush that America could trust their presidents and have faith in their word. No longer.
It's interesting that you haven't named, nor implied, a President whom you could trust with their word.
I too am of the firm belief that WeChat is spyware insofar as the Chinese government has tapped into it and no doubt uses it as a surveillance tool. For that reason, I am not opposed to seeing it banned in the US, if indeed that is the will of the American people. However, banning it in China too is going to far. The Chinese people seem content to allow their government to spy on them (which is very scary but a reality), so who are we to tell them they are wrong in that regard? If doing that is okay, so would be regime change. Might as well barge into China and take over.
What we do in our country is our business, and although what China does in their country can affect us, we really only have the moral right to solve the problems that affect America directly. That does not include a ban on WeChat within China. That's going too far.
Some people raised issue for proof or to prove if any Chinese App including Tik-Tok can be danger to American or non-Chinese people ? The word danger means mainly passing user's Data to Chinese Government agencies for whatever evil purpose. The Question is how you going to prove ? Ask Chinese Government or Chinese App companies whose survival is dictated by Chinese Government ? No company can protect users info against PRC. You can never find out what happens behind PRC iron curtain. No one outside of China should trust whatever justification is presented from Chinese side. Because there is no truth to it.
I too am of the firm belief that WeChat is spyware insofar as the Chinese government has tapped into it and no doubt uses it as a surveillance tool. For that reason, I am not opposed to seeing it banned in the US, if indeed that is the will of the American people. However, banning it in China too is going to far. The Chinese people seem content to allow their government to spy on them (which is very scary but a reality), so who are we to tell them they are wrong in that regard? If doing that is okay, so would be regime change. Might as well barge into China and take over.
What we do in our country is our business, and although what China does in their country can affect us, we really only have the moral right to solve the problems that affect America directly. That does not include a ban on WeChat within China. That's going too far.
Yep.
I have problems with what China is doing in other countries business, especially influence operations and espionage; and tracking Chinese dissidents, but in the case of the U.S., it is a security issue that can in general be handled by the State Department and the FBI.
Trump should be made to produce any evidence he has that these apps pose any danger to America or Americans. So far that evidence consists of two things: 1) American TikTok users humiliated him
2) Trump is using China as a scapegoat and a diversion from his own failures.
If he has anymore evidence then he should present it. But he won't. He can't. Like his smears against Huawei, he has no facts. He has no evidence. Just hate.
There was time before George Bush that America could trust their presidents and have faith in their word. No longer.
It's interesting that you haven't named, nor implied, a President whom you could trust with their word.
You did not understand what presidents mean?
George's statement was nonsensical, so I noted that he gave no indication of any specific President that he could have "faith in their word".
Myself, I continue to have complete faith in President Jimmy Carter's word, based on his life's work and history.
Things are getting nastier by the day as Trump becomes more desperate and listens to the China hawks.
I mentioned the other day that Spanish media were picking up on the requirement that US software not be made available in AppGallery and today they are reporting that these latest moves could provoke a wide ranging counter attack from China given the amount of investments Tencent has worldwide. They are claiming that the damage would be more than US attempts to derail Huawei.
Basically yes, Trump the idiot started a trade war he cannot win and will heavily damage American business and the countries money flow. Because he has a chip on his shoulder and isn’t very bright.
I too am of the firm belief that WeChat is spyware insofar as the Chinese government has tapped into it and no doubt uses it as a surveillance tool. For that reason, I am not opposed to seeing it banned in the US, if indeed that is the will of the American people. However, banning it in China too is going to far. The Chinese people seem content to allow their government to spy on them (which is very scary but a reality), so who are we to tell them they are wrong in that regard? If doing that is okay, so would be regime change. Might as well barge into China and take over.
What we do in our country is our business, and although what China does in their country can affect us, we really only have the moral right to solve the problems that affect America directly. That does not include a ban on WeChat within China. That's going too far.
Ever since the Patriot Act it is the U.S. who leads the world in spying on its people -- and all people's.
Comments
Inside the Chinese lab central to the search for the coronavirus' origin
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/inside-wuhan-lab-center-coronavirus-storm-n1236254?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_maYou are correct. The hate is very recent. Some of that is due to the current U.S. President, but most is due to the fact that China has become more repressive, and more militarized, under Xi Jinping. It doesn't help that Hong Kong has a new security law that is extremely repressive, nor that there are numerous human rights violations by the PRC.
It is a classic case of someone (very probably unhinged and not fully aware of the consequences of his actions) trying to use extraterritorial actions to disrupt world supply chain lines because the opponent is actually far ahead of anything the US has or is likely to have soon.
What we have is a government trying to bring down a private company. Without any evidence whatsoever to back up its varying accusations.
The consequences couldn't be any clearer. When sovereign governments can eliminate their dependency on US technology, they will.
In the case of Huawei they have decided to put their destiny in their own hands. It will take time but not nearly as long as originally planned.
They have decided to accelerate every single area of technological advance that they need.
Hisilicon has been absorbing the best minds in specialist processor related fields for years. Now they have simply opened up massive new lines of R&D to plug the gaps when it comes to fabbing.
And yes, China will be pushing ALL areas of its tech supply chains to reach their goals even earlier than forecast.
Well done Trump! Although he is oblivious to all this and will be long gone by the time his decisions come back to haunt the US.
Food for thought...
https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/how-huawei-can-work-around-us-chip-ban/
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/whos-who-libyas-war
Conflict with China scenarios
https://www.cfr.org/report/military-confrontation-south-china-sea
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/05/02/a-hypothetical-scenario-in-the-china-sea/
As for the links, I quite understand that you aren't interested in positing about anything other thatn nuclear war, and don't appear to be versed in any of the military and geopolitical operations that China is engaged in the region.
1) American TikTok users humiliated him
There was time before George Bush that America could trust their presidents and have faith in their word. No longer.
What we do in our country is our business, and although what China does in their country can affect us, we really only have the moral right to solve the problems that affect America directly. That does not include a ban on WeChat within China. That's going too far.
I have problems with what China is doing in other countries business, especially influence operations and espionage; and tracking Chinese dissidents, but in the case of the U.S., it is a security issue that can in general be handled by the State Department and the FBI.
George's statement was nonsensical, so I noted that he gave no indication of any specific President that he could have "faith in their word".
Myself, I continue to have complete faith in President Jimmy Carter's word, based on his life's work and history.