Microsoft aims to replace your iPad and iPhone with new Surface Duo

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 50
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    That Google Search field is quite humorous.
    qwerty52watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 50
    Could be a very good idea that every Apple device could be prepared to have a port for a SIM card.
    That you could indistinctlvy could tun your iPad or Macbook or MacPro into a phone. 
    Apple could also put HD cameras in all its devices and in portrait and landscape mode.
    After all, if your eco-system is comprise of over 30 or more devices, then why not convert them into 60 and have the best of all the options.

    Have to say that that Duo looks attractive, but just to think that I would run a t risk of running an Android system and with no tech support, NEVER.
    Apple sometimes sleeps in its laurels. Those times have gone. The completion is fierce.

    It should also make an agreement with the makers of TV sets to integrate AppleTV. So you get to the store and instead of having to fight with your Sony or Samsung that come preloaded with Android, you get home and you do the usual: PLUG AND PLAY. The motto of Apple.

    I don't know any Apple user that opens a package and reads any instructions. 99.9% of the time even if it's not an Apple product, we figure out how to go around. So have them make our life easier.
    And please. please please Apple redesign the calendar and contacts and it's UI. They are ugly and not up to date. Take a look at Moleskine Time Page. That is a true, beautiful calendar.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 50

    <snip>
    Google tried lower RAM devices with "software optimizations" for no reasons other than sheer arrogance
    <snip>
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but more RAM = greater power consumption and one of the enduring advantages of iOS is that it operates very well on devices with less RAM than is shipped in devices running Android.


    Yes, you are wrong. Absolutely wrong. Power consumption Vs Quantity of RAM is a balance to be achieved for better user experience. RAM is NOT the first and foremost component in a smartphone when it comes to power consumption. The top 2 components are SoC and display. So it is SILLY to suggest that lesser the RAM, better user experience for end user. Contrary is true - higher the RAM, better the user experience, because mobile OSs (including iOS) are designed to use as much RAM as possible to provide improved user experience.


    Linuxplatform is right on this point. Google was simply arrogant when it put only 4GB of RAM for phones with pricetag > $800 in the past 2 years when $250-$300 Android phones were coming with 6GB of RAM.

  • Reply 44 of 50


    The Surface Duo is available for pre-order
    The Surface Duo is available for pre-order

    The bottom part tellingly looks like a first generation iPad. That's where MS is currently. Long way to go before they get to the iPad Pros.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 50
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 434member
    This isn't as bad as Daniel Eran Dilger's demonstrably false yet never recanted "Android will fail and Google is going to go broke and Chromecast is a blatant inferior ripoff of AirPlay that will fail" columns from not long ago but still, don't put out nonsense like this that clearly lack a modicum of research.

    1. No love lost for Microsoft, as they - along with Apple and Oracle - were among the cabal that tried to push Linux, open source databases and Android out of the marketplace during the last decade using a variety of legal and marketplace pressure tactics. But Microsoft makes it clear that this device is not a phone, is not a tablet and is not meant to compete with the iPhone, iPad or even any Android device. Instead, it is a companion device for their somewhat successful line of Surface 2-in-1s. Basically, if you already like and use their Surface devices at work or in your home/office, you will want this device because it will have the same sort of "ecosystem" benefits that iPads have with MacBooks. But if you are not a Surface user, you will have no need or want for this device. Yes, this device is expensive - but similar to Apple fans - Surface device owners are used to paying a premium instead of just getting Lenovo or Dell devices that offer the same form factor and superior performance/specs for hundreds less.

    2. Instead of comparing this device with the Samsung Galaxy Fold - which is an entirely different one - someone who actually knows something about Android would compare them to LG phones. LG has been releasing dual screen devices for over a year ... the LG Thinq G7, the LG Thinq G8 and the LG Velvet. All of them have detachable 6.8' screens, much bigger than the Duo's 5.6' screens. All of them have the latest - meaning much faster - CPUs. They also have more RAM, and lack of RAM is a killer in Android devices with big screens (Google tried lower RAM devices with "software optimizations" for no reasons other than sheer arrogance for years before finally giving up and putting 6 GB of RAM in their Pixel 4A and the Pixel 5 will have 8 GB). Oh yes, and they all have 5G and NFC. A couple of mobile bloggers who are actually knowledgeable about Android - yes such creatures are rare outside Android enthusiast blogs themselves - flat out recommended buying the Thinq or Velvet (especially the Velvet) instead of this device.

    3. Claiming the Z Fold has "bad software" is ignorant. Compared to what? Because here's the deal: Apple doesn't have a product in this category yet. As usual. It would have been dumb to call the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro back in 2012 "a device with bad software" because Apple didn't come out with their own "Pro" tablet device with true multitasking support, stylus support and keyboard/trackpad support until later. (Actually MUCH LATER as the iPad Pros were in name only initially with the multitasking and trackpad features not added to OS, turning iOS into iPadOS, for several years.) Similarly, Apple currently has no software to drive a true folding device. The only true folding devices in existence are the 2019 and 2020 Galaxy Fold devices as well as a competing Huawei device that Huawei was only able to manufacture a few thousand units of (but the few who have actually seen and used them say that they are outstanding). Here's the thing: people who have actually used the Galaxy Fold and Flip devices say that they are great, especially the second generation versions of each that were just released and didn't have the "first generation iPhone/first ever MacBook Air" roughness. Which means that - by default - the software on these devices are GREAT until something comes along that's BETTER. We will see a Pixel folding phone (that will probably be similar to the Surface Duo) and allegedly a folding iPhone (which will be more like the Galaxy Z Fold) next year. At that point you will be able to SUBJECTIVELY claim that the Z Fold has bad software. Till then there is no way to even SUBJECTIVELY make that claim because A) the Z Fold's software works great in that it does what it is supposed to do in operating the device and delivers a good experience in the process - a consensus opinion held by nearly everyone who has bought or reviewed the device and B) no product with "better" software exists.
    I wonder who has the energy to wade through this 1500 word essay. Tip ... be succinct and make each point 1-2 sentences ... your message will reach a wider audience. 
    muthuk_vanalingamHank2.0jdb8167watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 50
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,699member
    KITA said:
    It's a niche device with a high price. It's not for me, but I could see the appeal in enterprise.

    Surface Duo with Surface Slim Pen

    The form factor and stylus compatibility is interesting though.

    I'm sure most people will just compare it to a smartphone though and miss the fact that this is a mobile device designed for productivity in most aspects.
    I don’t know how floppy the hinge is so that may impact its use as a tablet. In fact, the latest generation iPad Mini supports the Apple Pencil so it may actually be a better solution for things like sales support, inventory, and anyone who needs a “walk around with it” tablet device. A lot of people can comfortably use the iPad Mini with one hand. 

    I brought this up because I saw a store employee using an iPad Mini exactly as described yesterday. Yes, the Mini has no built in phone but it does have optional LTE connectivity and supports WiFi calling. 

    I’m sure the Microsoft device will find a small niche, but the iPad Mini can possibly fill some of the same niches at one-third of the cost and is a far superior tablet by virtue of iPadOS. 
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 50
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    Could be a very good idea that every Apple device could be prepared to have a port for a SIM card.
    That you could indistinctlvy could tun your iPad or Macbook or MacPro into a phone. 
    ...
    I've speculated that once Apple have their own silicon for a cell phone modem (not the Qualcomm one their purchasing now), every Apple device could be phone-capable. Apple would prefer an eSIM to an actual SIM card.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 50
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,689member
    With Microsoft releasing a hardware product that doesn't even run their own operating system, this is an admission that they have completely failed at mobile. And at $1400 this thing is D.O.A. I get the appeal of the form factor, but the fact that there is very little software support that takes advantage of it means this is just a hobbyist device.

    Furthermore, this device in no way competes with anything Apple offers. If it ran Windows, maybe, but because it runs Android, it will compete with the likes of Samsung for customer dollars. No one who has both an iPhone and an iPad is going to put up with craptastic Android apps.

    It boggles my mind that a company who had mobile devices in every product category 20 years ago can't manage to bring itself into the future. And we know why this is, because they failed to let go of their legacy. Always attempting to haul that baggage with them, everywhere. At least finally we have this admission that Windows will never be and can never be optimized for mobile applications. Even Microsoft's most ardent evangelists are starting to realize this.
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 50
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,473member
    mjtomlin said:
    With Microsoft releasing a hardware product that doesn't even run their own operating system, this is an admission that they have completely failed at mobile. And at $1400 this thing is D.O.A. I get the appeal of the form factor, but the fact that there is very little software support that takes advantage of it means this is just a hobbyist device.
    I don't think MS realized recently they failed at mobile devices, considering it has been years from the last time they had a mobile device.  Let's see how good or bad it goes with the Duo.  Still they have a strong presence in mobile with their productivity apps, management tools and xCloud.  
    Furthermore, this device in no way competes with anything Apple offers. If it ran Windows, maybe, but because it runs Android, it will compete with the likes of Samsung for customer dollars. No one who has both an iPhone and an iPad is going to put up with craptastic Android apps.
    I doesn't compete with Apple because they don't have any foldable or dual-screen device.  It has no relation with a device having Windows or Android.  I never had an Android device, so I have no idea how good or bad their apps.  What it's clear is that MS will do a great job with their apps, considering how good they are in iOS (at least in my experience).  
    It boggles my mind that a company who had mobile devices in every product category 20 years ago can't manage to bring itself into the future. And we know why this is, because they failed to let go of their legacy. Always attempting to haul that baggage with them, everywhere. At least finally we have this admission that Windows will never be and can never be optimized for mobile applications. Even Microsoft's most ardent evangelists are starting to realize this.
    I don't think that the issue was Windows optimized for mobile, considering how good Windows Phone was.  The problem was lack of apps.  A mobile device without apps is useless.  I think that was the real reason they went to Android, developers support.  
  • Reply 50 of 50
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,156member
    This seems like a really weird choice. It's Microsoft hardware that doesn't run a Microsoft OS. It baffles me that Apple remains the only major tech firm that keeps hardware and operating systems in a closed loop. It limits variables. Improvements in OS go hand-in-hand with improvements in hardware. A much higher level of quality control can be maintained.

    So, even though Windows has to carry the bloat of attempting compatibility with an endless list of hardware manufacturers and and endless list of aftermarket hardware components and an endless list of completely independent app developers, Microsoft can still nonetheless try to create an optimized Windows experience by making their own hardware, like the Surface line. They still can't same results as being able to develop hardware and OS as a single product, but they ought to at least be able to point in that direction. So naturally, they decide to introduce a device that runs an OS over which they have absolutely no control. Maybe it's an experiment that can offer them a learning experience, being on the other end of that equation, but I just don't see what else this is going to get them. 
    watto_cobra
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