Apple threatens to close Epic Games developer account on Aug. 28

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  • Reply 21 of 111
    bulk001 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    I agree with you but think Epic is the wrong company to fight it was it seems they charge devs a percentage of the sales themselves. There needs to be a way to install apps on the phone / pad without going through the AppStore if you don’t want to. Those who only want to use the AppStore are free to do so but those who want to get it from another source can too much like you can with your Mac. Apple could even put up a nice little warning about the dangers of 3rd party apps etc. 
    It is different since devs can go with a different engine or store if they don't like Epic's terms and still target the same users.  Epic is also a really good deal for both the Engine and the Store. That said, Xamarin built a C# layer for Unreal Engine and Epic changed their terms to not allow it since they presumably worried about losing control over the platform. That is very similar to Apple's behavior.
    edited August 2020 KITADAalseththttmayjony0DogpersonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 22 of 111
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,913member
    bulk001 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    I agree with you but think Epic is the wrong company to fight it was it seems they charge devs a percentage of the sales themselves. There needs to be a way to install apps on the phone / pad without going through the AppStore if you don’t want to. Those who only want to use the AppStore are free to do so but those who want to get it from another source can too much like you can with your Mac. Apple could even put up a nice little warning about the dangers of 3rd party apps etc. 

    Yes and Wal Mart should allow 3rd party vendors in and be responsible for heir actions too.

    The entitlement is riduculous.
    edited August 2020 aderuttertmayjony0Dogpersonwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 23 of 111
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,945member
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    And then you woke up.
    GG1Rayz2016leavingthebiggjony0pscooter63Dogperson
  • Reply 24 of 111
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,913member
    viclauyyc said:
    When Trump ban China/Huawei to buy US tech. They build their own OS, CPU, phone. 

    Now it is your turn to build your own OS, cpu and phone. Epic, be like China

    Except they will rip off Apple's iPhone, Apples iOS, Apples App Store, Apples iPad.
    Dogpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 111

    KITA said:
    Interesting. This may impact iOS/macOS gaming even further, potentially making third party developers choose to drop support of iOS/macOS or find a new game engine.

    It told Epic that by August 28, Apple will cut off Epic’s access to all development tools necessary to create software for Apple’s platforms—including for the Unreal Engine Epic offers to third-party developers, which Apple has never claimed violated any Apple policy. Not content simply to remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple is attacking Epic’s entire business in unrelated areas. 

    If the Unreal Engine can no longer support Apple platforms, the software developers that use it will be forced to use alternatives.

    Apple would lose out on Unreal Engine 5 as well it sounds like.

    ...

    Although they are the owner of Unreal Engine, there are less than fifteen iOS games developed with it, according to Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games

    A recent mainstream game for the Mac is Borderlands 3, but it requires a graphics card of 8 GB on the Mac ! What a game engine is that !

    So not many people will miss them once they are gone, and the whole affair will be forgotten in a couple of months even in the blogosphere that feeds it and life will continue as usual...
    The Wikipedia article is just showing a few examples.  There are 1000s of games using the engine.  It is very popular for both Indies and big studios.
    KITARayz2016jony0superklotonPezaretrogustodysamoria
  • Reply 26 of 111
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,913member
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 

    Yeah Apple should just bend over and take the abuse.

    Also I wanna have a yard sale in your nice property but I don't wanna pay you sh**! What's your address?
    pscooter63GG1aderuttertmayjony0Dogpersonwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 27 of 111

    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    The problem is Apple shouldn't treat this as services revenue. That is a slippery slope where their sales goals will conflict with what makes the platform better and is overall toxic to the platform. They should consider the store its own non-services thing. Bring it back to cost neutral. Use the funds to help further Apple developer goals with new APIs, developer tooling, etc. Add server side frameworks that are privacy focused that Apple could charge to use. This will indirectly help Apple be more competitive and increase sales in other areas. Instead of sales focused, make the pricing developer friendly.  Add things like tiered pricing to help Indies, ensure that fees are not too high to make in-app purchases unreasonable, etc.
    edited August 2020 cflcardsfan80Pascalxxdysamoria
  • Reply 28 of 111
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member

    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    The problem is Apple shouldn't treat this as services revenue. That is a slippery slope where their sales goals will conflict with what makes the platform better and is overall toxic to the platform. They should consider the store its own non-services thing. Bring it back to cost neutral. Use the funds to help further Apple developer goals with new APIs, developer tooling, etc. Add server side frameworks that are privacy focused that Apple could charge to use. This will indirectly help Apple be more competitive and increase sales in other areas. Instead of sales focused, make the pricing developer friendly.  Add things like tiered pricing to help Indies, ensure that fees are not too high to make in-app purchases unreasonable, etc.
    Dumbest thing I've ever heard. Not sure how cutting all profit makes something "better," or why the two are mutually exclusive.

    Not to mention the fact that you have no inkling as to their "sales goals" (or whether they even set "sales goals" for App Store revenue). 
    Rayz2016Beatsaderuttertmayjony0Dogpersonbestkeptsecretwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 111
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    Exactly. I told my landlord I wasn't paying rent anymore because it was unreasonably high.  I'll show him!
    Beatstmayjony0DogpersonGabywatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 30 of 111
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,992member
    bulk001 said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    I agree with you but think Epic is the wrong company to fight it was it seems they charge devs a percentage of the sales themselves. There needs to be a way to install apps on the phone / pad without going through the AppStore if you don’t want to. Those who only want to use the AppStore are free to do so but those who want to get it from another source can too much like you can with your Mac. Apple could even put up a nice little warning about the dangers of 3rd party apps etc. 
    I've thought about the side loading question. The issue is security. Possibly Apple might allow side loading, but make it clear that if you do, your warranty is void. Something along those lines. Companies don't prevent you from putting a nitro injector on your car or bike, but if you do any damage is your problem. Maybe they could allow side loading, but you can't use iCloud or other services. Kinda like jailbreaking your phone. We can't tell you what to do, but you can't do it here.

    I don't know what the answer is but something has to change. They may not be the bad guys, but they are making people think they are, and the results of that could be really bad.
    tmay
  • Reply 31 of 111
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,095member

    KITA said:
    Interesting. This may impact iOS/macOS gaming even further, potentially making third party developers choose to drop support of iOS/macOS or find a new game engine.

    It told Epic that by August 28, Apple will cut off Epic’s access to all development tools necessary to create software for Apple’s platforms—including for the Unreal Engine Epic offers to third-party developers, which Apple has never claimed violated any Apple policy. Not content simply to remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple is attacking Epic’s entire business in unrelated areas. 

    If the Unreal Engine can no longer support Apple platforms, the software developers that use it will be forced to use alternatives.

    Apple would lose out on Unreal Engine 5 as well it sounds like.

    ...

    Although they are the owner of Unreal Engine, there are less than fifteen iOS games developed with it, according to Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games

    A recent mainstream game for the Mac is Borderlands 3, but it requires a graphics card of 8 GB on the Mac ! What a game engine is that !

    So not many people will miss them once they are gone, and the whole affair will be forgotten in a couple of months even in the blogosphere that feeds it and life will continue as usual...
    The Wikipedia article is just showing a few examples.  There are 1000s of games using the engine.  It is very popular for both Indies and big studios.
    Wikipedia only says that this is not a complete list. That doesn't mean that those are a "few examples". Doesn't matter, anyway, my post was related to iOS games and apparently there aren't much of these so that Wikipedia may have only listed a "few examples".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 111
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    flydog said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    Exactly. I told my landlord I wasn't paying rent anymore because it was unreasonably high.  I'll show him!

    I’m telling my landlord that I’m going to stop paying rent, then I’m going to set up a crack den in his spare room, and not give him any money from the drug sales. 
    edited August 2020 GG1tmayjony0dedgeckowatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 111
    rain22rain22 Posts: 132member
    flydog said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    Exactly. I told my landlord I wasn't paying rent anymore because it was unreasonably high.  I'll show him!
    That's why they have laws against opportunistic slumlords and rent control. 
    CheeseFreezedysamoria
  • Reply 34 of 111
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Epic should sell actual tokens that gamers receive through the post. 

    Apple doesn’t apply fees to physical sales. 
    edited August 2020 tmayFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 111
    rain22rain22 Posts: 132member
    This isn't going to bode well for Apple. They just proved the case them for anti-competitive practices. 
    Epic's strategy seems too well planned. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other financial and political supporters behind them. 
    That or they are stupid. But I have a feeling Apple is getting gamed here somehow. 

    DAalsethCheeseFreeze
  • Reply 36 of 111
    zeromeuszeromeus Posts: 182member
    I was wondering when this would happen.... I knew it was coming and now it has.  Good for Apple.
    flydogwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 111
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,913member
    rain22 said:
    This isn't going to bode well for Apple. They just proved the case them for anti-competitive practices. 
    Epic's strategy seems too well planned. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other financial and political supporters behind them. 
    That or they are stupid. But I have a feeling Apple is getting gamed here somehow. 


    Of course they have other scumbags supporting them. Spotify and likely Microsoft.

    The fact it was planned makes Epic look worse.

    flydog said:
    tyler82 said:
    Apple is on the wrong side of this battle. 
    Exactly. I told my landlord I wasn't paying rent anymore because it was unreasonably high.  I'll show him!

    Now imagine being a billionaire with that same attitude.
    aderutterjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 111
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    viclauyyc said:
    When Trump ban China/Huawei to buy US tech. They build their own OS, CPU, phone. 

    Now it is your turn to build your own OS, cpu and phone. Epic, be like China
    How is that working out for China so far?

    https://www.businesstoday.in/current/corporate/another-blow-to-china-24-companies-to-shift-production-units-to-india/story/413201.html
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 111
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Epic should sell actual tokens that gamers receive through the post. 

    Apple doesn’t apply fees to physical sales. 
    You may want to actually read the App Store Guidelines.

    • 3.1.5(a) Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchase goods or services that will be consumed outside of the app, you must use purchase methods other than in-app purchase to collect those payments, such as Apple Pay or traditional credit card entry.
    • 5.3.3 Apps may not use in-app purchase to purchase credit or currency for use in conjunction with real money gaming of any kind, and may not enable people to purchase lottery or raffle tickets or initiate fund transfers in the app.

    aderutterdysamoriaFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 111
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member

    rain22 said:
    This isn't going to bode well for Apple. They just proved the case them for anti-competitive practices. 
    Epic's strategy seems too well planned. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other financial and political supporters behind them. 
    That or they are stupid. But I have a feeling Apple is getting gamed here somehow. 

    Epic admits that it breached the developer agreement, and the agreement states that it may be terminated for any breach.  Terminating a contract when the other party breaches the contract is not "anti-competitive."   
    jony0DogpersonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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