Leaker claims 'HomePod mini' is coming, 'HomePod 2' is not

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 32
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,090member
    dewme said:
    mike1 said:
    dewme said:
    I know it’s obvious to say, but the make or break factor for a HomePod mini will be the price. I don’t see Apple dropping the price low enough to displace Echo Dot so it will have to go after the Echo Plus/4th Gen Echo which is around $100 USD. If I had to guess I’d bet a HomePod mini would probably be in the $179-$199 price range which will solidify its place as a sub niche in the niche HomePod product line. 

    I love the HomePod for what it is, a great sounding way to consume Apple Music in a large space, and even more so when used in conjunction with an Apple TV. The problem that I have with HomePod is that it isn’t inexpensive enough to use as a primary HomeKit peripheral, i.e., a secondary role played by Echo Dots in an Amazon/Ring home automation and security installation. Price is also key. I have no problem putting a $30 Echo Dot in my garage or shed for background listening and Alexa Guard functionality. Hate to admit, but once Echo devices became Apple Music compatible any residual desire I had to purchase a second HomePod vanished. Poof! If I had a TV and Apple TV in a bedroom perhaps I’d seriously consider getting another HomePod and a mini would be a good option.

    I have no problems with Siri on HomePod. I’m just not sold on HomeKit. Apple needs to flesh out the device options and needs to develop or partner with others on the services side, like professional safety and security monitoring. The Amazon-Ring mashup was a little shaky at the start, but it’s hitting its stride and pushing out compelling second generation (and beyond)  products and services while Apple (HomeKit) is still watching from the sidelines. 
    I've been slowly but steadily building out my HomeKit network. Started with one then a bunch of Wemo outlets, an iHome outdoor outlet for the pool filter, added some LIFX bulbs, then an August lock, more LIFX bulbs outside and now my first HomeKit cameras. Added an Eve switch so that you don't need the phone handy to turn on the outdoor lights and worry that somebody will use the wall switch and kill power completely. Just confirmed with Arlo yesterday that their new wire-free doorbell will be HK compatible. Will pick one up and finally get rid of the Ring.

    Really love being able to set up and use from the Home app and rarely ever need to use individual apps. Been pretty much rock solid.

    Apple will eventually get there with HomeKit, but it’s been way too slow to roll out, and it wasn’t even an option when I built out my system a couple of years ago. Can you even buy PoE HomeKit compatible cameras? If Apple had starter kits and turnkey solutions directly or through a partner and offered remote surveillance, professional monitoring, wired + cellular backup, and video storage using their massive cloud infrastructure I would have gone in that direction.

    I really prefer anything PoE because it’s a low-voltage single cable solution and very reliable compared to WiFi. I don’t see a lot of HomeKit devices that support PoE. On the other hand I’d also prefer to have a homogeneous Ethernet based networking solution that HomeKit supports natively rather than relying on gateways and bridges to other wireless sensor networks like Zigbee and Z-Wave +. With no perfect solution available you have to choose the one that has the fewest compromises for your specific needs.

    If I need to upgrade in a few years I’ll definitely revisit the HomeKit option again to see where it’s at and hopefully they’ll be a much broader selection of devices.
    I don’t think there’s a lot of enthusiasm in the market at this point for stringing Ethernet wires all over the house. This would particularly apply to the Apple customer part of the market. 
    StrangeDaysfastasleepmike1watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 32
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,955member
    dewme said:
    mike1 said:
    dewme said:
    I know it’s obvious to say, but the make or break factor for a HomePod mini will be the price. I don’t see Apple dropping the price low enough to displace Echo Dot so it will have to go after the Echo Plus/4th Gen Echo which is around $100 USD. If I had to guess I’d bet a HomePod mini would probably be in the $179-$199 price range which will solidify its place as a sub niche in the niche HomePod product line. 

    I love the HomePod for what it is, a great sounding way to consume Apple Music in a large space, and even more so when used in conjunction with an Apple TV. The problem that I have with HomePod is that it isn’t inexpensive enough to use as a primary HomeKit peripheral, i.e., a secondary role played by Echo Dots in an Amazon/Ring home automation and security installation. Price is also key. I have no problem putting a $30 Echo Dot in my garage or shed for background listening and Alexa Guard functionality. Hate to admit, but once Echo devices became Apple Music compatible any residual desire I had to purchase a second HomePod vanished. Poof! If I had a TV and Apple TV in a bedroom perhaps I’d seriously consider getting another HomePod and a mini would be a good option.

    I have no problems with Siri on HomePod. I’m just not sold on HomeKit. Apple needs to flesh out the device options and needs to develop or partner with others on the services side, like professional safety and security monitoring. The Amazon-Ring mashup was a little shaky at the start, but it’s hitting its stride and pushing out compelling second generation (and beyond)  products and services while Apple (HomeKit) is still watching from the sidelines. 
    I've been slowly but steadily building out my HomeKit network. Started with one then a bunch of Wemo outlets, an iHome outdoor outlet for the pool filter, added some LIFX bulbs, then an August lock, more LIFX bulbs outside and now my first HomeKit cameras. Added an Eve switch so that you don't need the phone handy to turn on the outdoor lights and worry that somebody will use the wall switch and kill power completely. Just confirmed with Arlo yesterday that their new wire-free doorbell will be HK compatible. Will pick one up and finally get rid of the Ring.

    Really love being able to set up and use from the Home app and rarely ever need to use individual apps. Been pretty much rock solid.

    Apple will eventually get there with HomeKit, but it’s been way too slow to roll out, and it wasn’t even an option when I built out my system a couple of years ago. Can you even buy PoE HomeKit compatible cameras? If Apple had starter kits and turnkey solutions directly or through a partner and offered remote surveillance, professional monitoring, wired + cellular backup, and video storage using their massive cloud infrastructure I would have gone in that direction.

    I really prefer anything PoE because it’s a low-voltage single cable solution and very reliable compared to WiFi. I don’t see a lot of HomeKit devices that support PoE. On the other hand I’d also prefer to have a homogeneous Ethernet based networking solution that HomeKit supports natively rather than relying on gateways and bridges to other wireless sensor networks like Zigbee and Z-Wave +. With no perfect solution available you have to choose the one that has the fewest compromises for your specific needs.

    If I need to upgrade in a few years I’ll definitely revisit the HomeKit option again to see where it’s at and hopefully they’ll be a much broader selection of devices.
    While I’d enjoy such a thing, HomeKit-enabled DIY home security components seems pretty niche for Apple.. I think it’s safe to say Apple will never offer starter kits or turnkey solutions, it’s just not a big enough mass market. Even CarPlay head units is too niche despite being bigger. And if they did it wouldn’t be wired, right?

    I got a Synology NAS and a PoE switch and just plan to plug PoE cameras into that and use the Synology CCTV software, like a standard NVR. 
    edited October 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 32
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,090member

    Rayz2016 said:
    Not that I'm a strategic expert on this kind of stuff, but I still reckon they're missing a trick by not building a router into these things.

    ...
    This is what I thought would happen with the first HomePod. I’m dreading the time when I have to give up on my AirPort gear. Maybe they’ll come back around before then. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 32
    I know people love the sound and the sound quality gets good reviews but to me it sounds muffled. Especialy for voice/podcasts. I hope the HomePod mini is not a mostly enclosed piece of plastic like its bigger brother. The 360 mesh is misleading.
  • Reply 25 of 32
    elijahg said:
    I used to love my HP, but I have gradually fallen out of love with it over Siri. The sound quality is great, but thats about it. Siri is plain terrible, and seems to be getting worse, at least versus Alexa/Google Home.

    I can only agree, I just use HP just for music playback and Siri for homekit accessory controls. I find it's getting slower and slower to perform basic tasks. In my case, compared to before, I've noticed delay to select/deselect HP as airplay2 audio target and missed instructions to HK devices (or also slow). I actually opted out of Apple music because Siri on HP is so poor.

    One year Apple focused on making their OSs better than running after endless features ... wish they did the same for Siri & Homepod.
    elijahgOctoMonkey
  • Reply 26 of 32
    elijahg said:
    I used to love my HP, but I have gradually fallen out of love with it over Siri. The sound quality is great, but thats about it. Siri is plain terrible, and seems to be getting worse, at least versus Alexa/Google Home. I thought when Apple introduced a new speaker with its main UI being Siri, they'd prioritise making Siri less crap. But apparently not. For anything other than the most basic of music playing commands, it either:

    • Misunderstands what I say (though that is reasonably rare now, maybe 10% of the time, was 30%)
    • Misinterprets what I mean (30% of the time)
    • Misses the "Hey Siri" keywords (10% of the time)
    • Siri activates on the wrong device (30% of the time)
    • Doesn't work because of a "network issue" when everything else is fine (was never, now 20%)
    • Fails to find my phone on the network despite it being on the network and working fine - this usually happens when adding reminders, despite it having access to the reminders via iCloud (was never, now 30% of the time)
    • Answers "I can't do that/find the answer to that on HomePod" (most questions that are not related to iOS itself. I'm always surprised when it answers correctly)

    Which adds up to mean it doesn't work often enough that if my phone is in the same or next room, it takes less time to go and get it and use Siri on my phone directly, or just use the UI. There are non-Siri related issues too, both of mine seem to have lost their auto gain settings, because when using Facetime Audio people complain they can't hear me. Also the audio stream regularly stops for a bit and we lose each other for 5-10 seconds. No such issue with my phone on the same network. Oh and the activation light being on the top is dumb, because you don't know if Siri has activated unless the HP is lower than you are. This is all really unfortunate, because it has really soured my view of the HP which is potentially a great device.
    Same here. Terribly frustrated with Siri (on every Apple device) which means a terrible HomePod  experience. The fact I can’t use it with Spotify is even worse. I just want to set Spotify as default and use Siri to play a song. The fact I can’t do that years after HomePod’s launch means I lost believe in this product becoming usable.
    elijahg
  • Reply 27 of 32
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,548member
    elijahg said:
    I used to love my HP, but I have gradually fallen out of love with it over Siri. The sound quality is great, but thats about it. Siri is plain terrible, and seems to be getting worse, at least versus Alexa/Google Home. I thought when Apple introduced a new speaker with its main UI being Siri, they'd prioritise making Siri less crap. But apparently not. For anything other than the most basic of music playing commands, it either:

    • Misunderstands what I say (though that is reasonably rare now, maybe 10% of the time, was 30%)
    • Misinterprets what I mean (30% of the time)
    • Misses the "Hey Siri" keywords (10% of the time)
    • Siri activates on the wrong device (30% of the time)
    • Doesn't work because of a "network issue" when everything else is fine (was never, now 20%)
    • Fails to find my phone on the network despite it being on the network and working fine - this usually happens when adding reminders, despite it having access to the reminders via iCloud (was never, now 30% of the time)
    • Answers "I can't do that/find the answer to that on HomePod" (most questions that are not related to iOS itself. I'm always surprised when it answers correctly)

    Which adds up to mean it doesn't work often enough that if my phone is in the same or next room, it takes less time to go and get it and use Siri on my phone directly, or just use the UI. There are non-Siri related issues too, both of mine seem to have lost their auto gain settings, because when using Facetime Audio people complain they can't hear me. Also the audio stream regularly stops for a bit and we lose each other for 5-10 seconds. No such issue with my phone on the same network. Oh and the activation light being on the top is dumb, because you don't know if Siri has activated unless the HP is lower than you are. This is all really unfortunate, because it has really soured my view of the HP which is potentially a great device.
    Same here. Terribly frustrated with Siri (on every Apple device) which means a terrible HomePod  experience. The fact I can’t use it with Spotify is even worse. I just want to set Spotify as default and use Siri to play a song. The fact I can’t do that years after HomePod’s launch means I lost believe in this product becoming usable.
    I find that my HomePod hears me better than our echo dot and seems to be quicker at issuing commands.

    I agree that this great hardware is let down by Siri, it’s just so bad by comparison, embarrassingly bad really.

    Example, I just asked Siri what Gas Mark 5 is in Centigrade. The answer? “I can’t find the answer to that on HomePod” Most of the time it can’t find the bloody answer to almost anything on HomePod, but Alexa can!

    As a music device it’s wonderful, as a smart device it’s about as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
    elijahg
  • Reply 28 of 32
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,090member
    I don't have solutions but I do know that the Homepod simply isn't good enough. The other day we tested 2 stereo paired Echo 4th Gens and my buddy's Homepod. He was shocked how close they seemed. 

    I'm generally anti-Amazon but the quality for the price is fantastic. Add to that the fact that Alexa is on a different level than Siri. 
    I’m still not going to let Amazon (or Google) have access to a microphone in my home. 
    watto_cobraOctoMonkey
  • Reply 29 of 32
    elijahg said:
    I used to love my HP, but I have gradually fallen out of love with it over Siri. The sound quality is great, but thats about it. Siri is plain terrible, and seems to be getting worse, at least versus Alexa/Google Home. I thought when Apple introduced a new speaker with its main UI being Siri, they'd prioritise making Siri less crap. But apparently not. For anything other than the most basic of music playing commands, it either:

    • Misunderstands what I say (though that is reasonably rare now, maybe 10% of the time, was 30%)
    • Misinterprets what I mean (30% of the time)
    • Misses the "Hey Siri" keywords (10% of the time)
    • Siri activates on the wrong device (30% of the time)
    • Doesn't work because of a "network issue" when everything else is fine (was never, now 20%)
    • Fails to find my phone on the network despite it being on the network and working fine - this usually happens when adding reminders, despite it having access to the reminders via iCloud (was never, now 30% of the time)
    • Answers "I can't do that/find the answer to that on HomePod" (most questions that are not related to iOS itself. I'm always surprised when it answers correctly)

    Which adds up to mean it doesn't work often enough that if my phone is in the same or next room, it takes less time to go and get it and use Siri on my phone directly, or just use the UI. There are non-Siri related issues too, both of mine seem to have lost their auto gain settings, because when using Facetime Audio people complain they can't hear me. Also the audio stream regularly stops for a bit and we lose each other for 5-10 seconds. No such issue with my phone on the same network. Oh and the activation light being on the top is dumb, because you don't know if Siri has activated unless the HP is lower than you are. This is all really unfortunate, because it has really soured my view of the HP which is potentially a great device.
    When you've called Apple Support have they provided you any resolutions on these issues?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 32
    I replaced my damaged HP with a $90 Eneby speaker from Ikea, as dumb but with better bass.

  • Reply 31 of 32
    AppleZulu said:
    dewme said:
    mike1 said:
    dewme said:
    I know it’s obvious to say, but the make or break factor for a HomePod mini will be the price. I don’t see Apple dropping the price low enough to displace Echo Dot so it will have to go after the Echo Plus/4th Gen Echo which is around $100 USD. If I had to guess I’d bet a HomePod mini would probably be in the $179-$199 price range which will solidify its place as a sub niche in the niche HomePod product line. 

    I love the HomePod for what it is, a great sounding way to consume Apple Music in a large space, and even more so when used in conjunction with an Apple TV. The problem that I have with HomePod is that it isn’t inexpensive enough to use as a primary HomeKit peripheral, i.e., a secondary role played by Echo Dots in an Amazon/Ring home automation and security installation. Price is also key. I have no problem putting a $30 Echo Dot in my garage or shed for background listening and Alexa Guard functionality. Hate to admit, but once Echo devices became Apple Music compatible any residual desire I had to purchase a second HomePod vanished. Poof! If I had a TV and Apple TV in a bedroom perhaps I’d seriously consider getting another HomePod and a mini would be a good option.

    I have no problems with Siri on HomePod. I’m just not sold on HomeKit. Apple needs to flesh out the device options and needs to develop or partner with others on the services side, like professional safety and security monitoring. The Amazon-Ring mashup was a little shaky at the start, but it’s hitting its stride and pushing out compelling second generation (and beyond)  products and services while Apple (HomeKit) is still watching from the sidelines. 
    I've been slowly but steadily building out my HomeKit network. Started with one then a bunch of Wemo outlets, an iHome outdoor outlet for the pool filter, added some LIFX bulbs, then an August lock, more LIFX bulbs outside and now my first HomeKit cameras. Added an Eve switch so that you don't need the phone handy to turn on the outdoor lights and worry that somebody will use the wall switch and kill power completely. Just confirmed with Arlo yesterday that their new wire-free doorbell will be HK compatible. Will pick one up and finally get rid of the Ring.

    Really love being able to set up and use from the Home app and rarely ever need to use individual apps. Been pretty much rock solid.

    Apple will eventually get there with HomeKit, but it’s been way too slow to roll out, and it wasn’t even an option when I built out my system a couple of years ago. Can you even buy PoE HomeKit compatible cameras? If Apple had starter kits and turnkey solutions directly or through a partner and offered remote surveillance, professional monitoring, wired + cellular backup, and video storage using their massive cloud infrastructure I would have gone in that direction.

    I really prefer anything PoE because it’s a low-voltage single cable solution and very reliable compared to WiFi. I don’t see a lot of HomeKit devices that support PoE. On the other hand I’d also prefer to have a homogeneous Ethernet based networking solution that HomeKit supports natively rather than relying on gateways and bridges to other wireless sensor networks like Zigbee and Z-Wave +. With no perfect solution available you have to choose the one that has the fewest compromises for your specific needs.

    If I need to upgrade in a few years I’ll definitely revisit the HomeKit option again to see where it’s at and hopefully they’ll be a much broader selection of devices.
    I don’t think there’s a lot of enthusiasm in the market at this point for stringing Ethernet wires all over the house. This would particularly apply to the Apple customer part of the market. 
    Cabling is definitely something which is on a downward spiral (if not an outright free fall).  I for one am a huge fan of wired networking...  That said, I already have the tools, supplies and the know how to do the work.  I have just put my first PoE switch in, specifically for my WiFi access points.  While not a huge benefit, it is nice turning off a single thing and having everything connected to it powered off too.  It also allows me to place the APs pretty much anywhere without considering how I am going to power them.  For me a 10Gb backbone, wired GbE to virtually all endpoints makes for a pretty robust network. with WiFi for mobile things only.

    It is quite a change from 20 years ago when having a "wired" house was a selling point!
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