You can't stereo pair HomePod with HomePod mini, but home theater support coming soon

AppleInsider

Following up on Tuesday's HomePod mini announcement, The Loop's Jim Dalrymple answers a key question about pairing the device with its older and larger brother.

Like HomePod, the new HomePod mini is able to detect and pair with a second HomePod mini to create a stereo pair. What Apple didn't mention, however, is whether the pint-sized smart speaker can do the same with HomePod.

According to Dalrymple, users are unable to mix and match HomePod models when pairing. That means a HomePod mini and HomePod can't be combined to make a stereo pair.

That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers.

The limitation makes sense considering HomePod is a much more capable device and boasts a sound signature that is likely impossible to reproduce with the single-driver HomePod mini. The full-size version packs in seven horn-loaded tweeters, each with its own amplifier, for directional output, and a high-excursion woofer to create room-filling, high-fidelity sound. HomePod mini, on the other hand, features one driver and two passive radiators.

Apple claims the small speaker's design and smart computational audio afford the full sound of a much larger speaker, but algorithms can only go so far.

Dalrymple goes on to say that an upcoming update will deliver 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos support to HomePods connected to an Apple TV 4K. HomePod's directional audio is required for the simulated surround sound feature to work, so those looking to replace their home theater system will have to spring for the more expensive model. HomePod and HomePod mini can't be connected to an Apple TV at the same time, though two HomePod mini units can be paired to achieve stereo sound.

In addition, the update will bring today's announced intercom feature, Maps continuity, multiuser support for Podcasts, and support for third-party music services, the report said.

Stay on top of all Apple news right from your HomePod or HomePod mini. Say, "Hey, Siri, play AppleInsider Daily," and you'll get a fast update direct from the AppleInsider team.

StrangeDays

Dalrymple goes on to say that an upcoming update will deliver 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos support to HomePods connected to an Apple TV 4K.

I missed this in the event, that’s awesome news. Wonder if it’s simulated, I thought you needed upwards firing speakers for Atmos.

entropys

Next up, the homebar with Dolby Atmos support. $799. Sonos arc equivalent.
can be expanded by linking with HomePods and HomePod minis.

laytech

That's a shame I was hoping to have my large HomePod play music in one part of the room and the mini HomePod at the other side.

rcfa

Stereo pairs should always be matching speakers.

However with two HomePods as main speakers, the minis should be good enough as surround speakers for a center and rear channels, provided Apple does it.

certainly the minis should be ok for kitchen, bath, or near field desktop speakers...

rikipedia

Apple is soooo late to the game with this product. Many of us have already found similar non-Apple solutions that work very well.

noraa1138

laytech said:

That's a shame I was hoping to have my large HomePod play music in one part of the room and the mini HomePod at the other side.

You can absolutely do that "That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers."

What you can't do is link a regular HomePod and a HomePod Mini as a stereo pair - where one HomePod is the left channel and the other the right channel.

noraa1138

rikipedia said:

Apple is soooo late to the game with this product. Many of us have already found similar non-Apple solutions that work very well.

Better late than never I suppose... I for one plan to buy one the minute it's available. I refuse to use a Google Home or Amazon Echo purely because of privacy, as both have been shown to have major bugs that record you when they're not supposed to - and even have those recordings be directly linked to your account and your name.

entropys

Speaking of ATV, where is the new one that was rumoured?

foregoneconclusion

rcfa said:

Stereo pairs should always be matching speakers.

Exactly. Makes no sense from an audio perspective to do otherwise. I think the tech press expected the internal design of the Mini to be very similar to the original HomePod, but it isn't.  

OctoMonkey

AppleInsider said:

That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers.

This is the bit I find does not work.  My setup is a bit different in that I am using wired Airport Express units to drive in wall speakers (via Griffin Twenty amplifiers).  When I stream music from my computer to both the AE and the HP, the HP will lose it's connection to the Music app.  If I play to just the HP, everything works fine.  Perhaps Apple is simply deprecating the AE in an attempt to not have to deal with them.  This is fine, but I definitely need a wired speaker solution - I don't want my house to be littered with HPs.

mike1

noraa1138 said:

laytech said:

That's a shame I was hoping to have my large HomePod play music in one part of the room and the mini HomePod at the other side.

You can absolutely do that "That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers."

What you can't do is link a regular HomePod and a HomePod Mini as a stereo pair - where one HomePod is the left channel and the other the right channel.

That would be just stupid, anyway. It would sound awful.

mike1

OctoMonkey said:

AppleInsider said:

That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers.

This is the bit I find does not work.  My setup is a bit different in that I am using wired Airport Express units to drive in wall speakers (via Griffin Twenty amplifiers).  When I stream music from my computer to both the AE and the HP, the HP will lose it's connection to the Music app.  If I play to just the HP, everything works fine.  Perhaps Apple is simply deprecating the AE in an attempt to not have to deal with them.  This is fine, but I definitely need a wired speaker solution - I don't want my house to be littered with HPs.

Then why are you even commenting on this story???

OctoMonkey

mike1 said:

noraa1138 said:

laytech said:

That's a shame I was hoping to have my large HomePod play music in one part of the room and the mini HomePod at the other side.

You can absolutely do that "That said, multiple HomePod mini and HomePod units can be linked to form a connected whole-house system. Users can ask Siri to play different songs in each room or play one song throughout the home, with sound synchronized across all speakers."

What you can't do is link a regular HomePod and a HomePod Mini as a stereo pair - where one HomePod is the left channel and the other the right channel.

That would be just stupid, anyway. It would sound awful.

How can you possibly know it would sound awful without actually trying it out?  Do you have some sort of inside knowledge on the audio characteristics of the two speakers?  Also, given the audio processing which takes place in the HP, wouldn't it be possible for it to emulate the audio characteristics of the mini?

Sammiemo

The article states, incorrectly, "Like HomePod, the new HomePod mini is able to detect and pair with a second HomePod mini to create a stereo pair." Legacy HomePods don't automatically detect each other and configure themselves as a pair, but users can do so during setup or via the Home app.

foregoneconclusion

OctoMonkey said: How can you possibly know it would sound awful without actually trying it out?  Do you have some sort of inside knowledge on the audio characteristics of the two speakers?

Apple provides very specific information about the internal audio design for both the original and Mini. They're very different. The original HomePod has a single high excursion woofer that fires upward and seven tweeters circling the base that can beam form sound. In the Mini, the bass comes from two woofers on the sides and there aren't any beam forming tweeters. The treble fires downward and reflects out.

Go to the 4:57 mark in the 'Hi, Speed' presentation video to see the specific description of the internals on the Mini. 

crimguy

“Dalrymple goes on to say that an upcoming update will deliver 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos support to HomePods connected to an Apple TV 4K. HomePod's directional audio is required for the simulated surround sound feature to work, so those looking to replace their home theater system will have to spring for the more expensive model. HomePod and HomePod mini can't be connected to an Apple TV at the same time, though two HomePod mini units can be paired to achieve stereo sound. “

This sounds like any 5.1 will be virtual, not four or more homepods, if you can’t connect them to an Apple TV. 

I am holding out hope that Apple will release a center channel speaker that perhaps connects to multiple pairs of homepods, decodes the multichannel audio, and sends it to the appropriate satellite. Homepod subwoofer would be nice too ;-D

gatorguy

noraa1138 said:

rikipedia said:

Apple is soooo late to the game with this product. Many of us have already found similar non-Apple solutions that work very well.

I refuse to use a Google Home or Amazon Echo purely because of privacy, as both have been shown to major bugs sometimes erroneously
"hear' the wake word and record you when they're not supposed to (so does Apple and Siri) - and even have those recordings be directly linked to your account and your name.

I don't think you read what you think you remember.

Perhaps accurate for Amazon, not sure, as they might have stopped doing so.  Not accurate for Google who anonymizes those voice snippets for anywhere but your own private account for your own private review. Identifiable recordings are never shared whether for Apple or for Google, not even for company reviewers.

OctoMonkey

foregoneconclusion said:

OctoMonkey said: How can you possibly know it would sound awful without actually trying it out?  Do you have some sort of inside knowledge on the audio characteristics of the two speakers?

Apple provides very specific information about the internal audio design for both the original and Mini. They're very different. The original HomePod has a single high excursion woofer that fires upward and seven tweeters circling the base that can beam form sound. In the Mini, the bass comes from two woofers on the sides and there aren't any beam forming tweeters. The treble fires downward and reflects out.

Go to the 4:57 mark in the 'Hi, Speed' presentation video to see the specific description of the internals on the Mini. 

This doesn't mean using the two together would necessarily sound "awful".  Granted "awful" is very subjective, but with contemporary digital signal processing can do amazing things and it seems likely the original HomePod could be "tuned" to sound very much like the mini.  I am not suggesting it would duplicate the audio characteristics of the mini, but I doubt it would sound "awful".  Unless you are listening to an ideal music source in an ideal room with no extraneous ambient sound and have conquered the Philips Golden Ears challenge you likely would not know the difference.

On a side note, I really like the aesthetics of the new mini!  It some ways it reminds me of the 70's bar string coated glass bar candles.  Apple should make this where the entire surface (under the netting) glow with the music (perhaps even configurable).  It would have a very cool retro-psychedelic vibe.  Like a modern day lava lamp.

psych_guy

Cool! So the one in my bedroom goes out to the living room to form a stereo pair and the mini goes in my bedroom. Maybe even a mini for my kitchen / dining room. 

dewme

gatorguy said:

noraa1138 said:

rikipedia said:

Apple is soooo late to the game with this product. Many of us have already found similar non-Apple solutions that work very well.

I refuse to use a Google Home or Amazon Echo purely because of privacy, as both have been shown to major bugs sometimes erroneously
"hear' the wake word and record you when they're not supposed to (so does Apple and Siri) - and even have those recordings be directly linked to your account and your name.

I don't think you read what you think you remember.

Perhaps accurate for Amazon, not sure, as they might have stopped doing so.  Not accurate for Google who anonymizes those voice snippets for anywhere but your own private account for your own private review. Identifiable recordings are never shared whether for Apple or for Google, not even for company reviewers.

Not accurate for Amazon either, and never was. As far as I know, all of these services, including Siri, do allow you to opt-in to share your recordings anonymously to improve the quality of the machine learning algorithms. Amazon does allow you to review and delete everything it records and to specify how long it stores recordings. I'm least familiar with Google Home and Microsoft Cortana, but I don't discern any real security or privacy differences between Siri and Alexa. Each one allows you very granular control over what it can and cannot do. 

I don't know why these "Amazon is spying on us using Alexa" urban legend persists. You'd think that after more than 5 years in use over 100 million devices being deployed worldwide, with the hair trigger litigation and class action lawsuit environment that we live in, and the negative perception of Amazon (and its leader) held by some prominent politicians any legitimate "spying" or "unauthorized surveillance" incident would blow up to gigantic proportions, way beyond the "iPhone battery life throttle gate" thing that is by comparison very inconsequential but still won't go away. 

The other thing that causes me to brush aside the smart speaker spying stories is because I have been involved quite heavily in network and protocol analysis, including using Ethereal/Wireshark and have written protocol dissectors for Wireshark. It would be very easy to detect whether a smart speaker was, at the very least, pushing packets upstream in the absence of the required trigger/activation phrase, even if you couldn't see exactly what data they were pushing because it's all encrypted. Researchers at MIT and other tech enthusiasts have done exactly that using Wireshark and have not found any evidence of such activity. In all likelihood all of these devices do periodically ping the server for connection keep alive purposes, and all of them receive firmware updates pushed from the server, but they are all pretty much quiet until triggered.

Does network monitoring provide absolute proof that unauthorized surveillance is not taking place? No. It would still be possible for recordings captured locally and stored to be subsequently appended to user keyword qualified queries so as not to appear suspicious. It would also be possible for Amazon/Google/Apple/Microsoft to strip and hide unauthorized surveillance capture data from your recorded query history. The biggest question though is what practical value or financial benefit would a smart speaker vendor have to perform this illegal surveillance when the negative consequences for getting caught are so astronomically high? The risk versus reward for a corporate entity like Amazon/Google/Apple/Microsoft to do this just doesn't make sense. Of course an actor at a higher level, as in law enforcement or national security, could potentially (and theoretically) commandeer any of these systems to do exactly what Amazon/Google/Apple/Microsoft have pledged not to do, but that's an entirely different ballgame and not brand specific. If the latter concern is real for you, none of these devices should be part of your life - buy yourself a "dumb" Bluetooth speaker or use copper wires.