Apple's claims about M1 Mac speed 'shocking,' but 'extremely plausible'

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 84
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.
    You should look up the "appeal to authority fallacy" because you seem to have misunderstood it.  It's only a fallacy when the authority has no expertise on the subject, e.g. a respected surgeon's advice on the stock market, or an esteemed actor's take on political science. 

    If the authority has expertise then it's not a fallacy, it's specialist testimony.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 84
    wizard69 said:
    dewme said:
    wizard69 said:
    Pjs said:
    The future of the Ipad pro is bleak.  Prices are higher.  And they still use the Ios base ....
    On the contrary, put this class of chip in an iPad and you have the most powerful table going.    IPad OS is a mixed bag and I really hope that they address the short comings there.   It wold be interesting to see Mac OS on a tablet like iPad but I'm not sure that is a reasonable long term play for Apple.    Rather I see Apple working far more AI techniques into both Mac OS and iPad OS to drive these operating systems forward.
    I’m waiting to see how iOS/iPadOS apps work out on M1 Macs. Running them is one thing, but running them well and with a good user experience is quite another. My expectations are high because the mouse and keyboard experience in iPadOS is actually quite good, but I’m probably forgetting the few times I’ve had to (or decided to) revert to touch only because it was still an option. Things like window sizing is still a mystery. Do you have to pick a reference iPad screen like you do in XCode?

    We’ll see. 
    I will be interesting to see how iPad software on the Mac works out.   I'd be surprised if Apples first effort at the support remains around for a long time.    That is running iPad apps will be refined over time.

    I'm not too convinced that running ipad apps will be a long term thing on the ARM Macs, what it will be is a great way to get native apps early in the development cycle.   If Apple performance specs reflect the real life experience I'm expecting developers to transition to these machine pretty fast.   In a year or two the old x86 Macs will not even be getting app updates.
    You might be right. It could be like on the early iPads you could run iPhone apps. Even today it still works but Apple has made no attempt to make it better than it was on the original iPad. They could allow rotation, scaling etc but nothing. That's because it hasn't been important for years as developers embraced the iPad and now iPadOS to create apps that actually work well in the iPad environment. It is entirely possible, given the work that Apple has done on Catalyst and SwiftUI that in a year or so, running iOS and iPadOS apps on Big Sur and later becomes irrelevant to most users.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 84
    It's fun seeing vicious attacks on people's logic. Unless I'm the victim, which does happen for some of my posts. I don't think anyone can be immune to attacks.
  • Reply 64 of 84
    I have two questions: 
    1. Is it theoretically possible using any virtualization software that I will be able to run two copies of Big Sur on the same Apple Silicon computer?
    2. People talk about being able to run binaries for iOS/iPadOS on MacOS, because they are the same binaries, but does that also mean that I will be able to run macOS binaries on iPadOS (since it supports a mouse and keyboard)?
    I haven't noticed anyone talking about these issues. But I may have missed it. These are important questions for me.

    On point 2, 
    I am also interested if anyone knows more of this topic.

    The fact most IpadPro's have 3Gb RAM or less, the 2018 IPad Pro mostly 4Gb RAM and the 2020 IPad Pro 6Gb RAM, possibly means MacOS with an external monitor is a faint hope.  Even of it runs, doing anything useful will be severely restricted by the amount of RAM.  

    The IPadPro does not seem to make much sense anymore in the Apple line up.

    The 2020 IPad Air and M1 Mac make the 2020 IPadPro obsolete in just 6 months coming from two different directions.  The IPadPro 2020 is possibly Apples worst hardware value proposition ever.  A situation that makes me very unhappy :(
    I suspect a 2021 IPadPro may get much more RAM, but the current iPad Air 2020 is far too much hardware for iPadOS in its current state.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 84
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,335member
    wizard69 said:
    dewme said:
    wizard69 said:
    Pjs said:
    The future of the Ipad pro is bleak.  Prices are higher.  And they still use the Ios base ....
    On the contrary, put this class of chip in an iPad and you have the most powerful table going.    IPad OS is a mixed bag and I really hope that they address the short comings there.   It wold be interesting to see Mac OS on a tablet like iPad but I'm not sure that is a reasonable long term play for Apple.    Rather I see Apple working far more AI techniques into both Mac OS and iPad OS to drive these operating systems forward.
    I’m waiting to see how iOS/iPadOS apps work out on M1 Macs. Running them is one thing, but running them well and with a good user experience is quite another. My expectations are high because the mouse and keyboard experience in iPadOS is actually quite good, but I’m probably forgetting the few times I’ve had to (or decided to) revert to touch only because it was still an option. Things like window sizing is still a mystery. Do you have to pick a reference iPad screen like you do in XCode?

    We’ll see. 
    I will be interesting to see how iPad software on the Mac works out.   I'd be surprised if Apples first effort at the support remains around for a long time.    That is running iPad apps will be refined over time.

    I'm not too convinced that running ipad apps will be a long term thing on the ARM Macs, what it will be is a great way to get native apps early in the development cycle.   If Apple performance specs reflect the real life experience I'm expecting developers to transition to these machine pretty fast.   In a year or two the old x86 Macs will not even be getting app updates.
    Just got an update via the Apple Developer app...

    https://developer.apple.com/macos/iphone-and-ipad-apps/

    Sounds promising. Apps designed for iOS and iPadOS will get automatically pushed to the Mac App Store on Apple Silicon Macs. Over time developers will be able to dynamically adapt their apps to take advantage of the unique capabilities of macOS so they are more consistent with the macOS user experience. 
    williamlondontmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 84
    h4y3s said:
    Don’t overlook the unified memory architecture that Apple can deploy, (as they own the whole stack) this will save 2x on a lot of common functions! 
    How so?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 67 of 84
    cloudguy said:
    red oak said:
    Fun seeing washed up “ consultants” out there trying to push back the sea of Apple Silicon performance that is going to wash over x86
    What is "fun" is seeing the same people who spent most of the last 13 years predicting the death of Android when for much of that time it has had 60%-85% market share are claiming that Wintel is going to shrivel up and blow away when Macs only accounted for a 6% market share in 2019, and in 3Q 2020 - their best quarter in history - only had an 8% market share, not only far behind Windows but even behind 11% for ChromeOS. So even if Apple doubles their market share to 16% - Macs did reach 15% share about 5 or 6 years ago, but only because volumes were much lower back then because enterprises and many users were flat out refusing to buy Windows 8 machines - Intel will be fine. If billions of people shifting from Wintel being their primary computing devices to Android and iOS phones and tablets being their primary computing devices didn't make much of a dent in Wintel - and you can go back to the archives of this very site from like 2013 or 2014 claiming that it would with obituaries being written for the likes of Microsoft, Dell, HP etc. and much ado being made of IBM shifting to Macs and iPads - then losing Apple's market share (which it has only had since 2005 in the first place!) won't hurt them much either. Intel makes far more money in the server/data center market that Apple has never had so much as a drop in the bucket in than they do in the 15-20 million CPUs that they provide to Apple in any given year - with the bulk of those being Core i3 and Core i5 CPUs that they sell to Apple for only $15-$25 more than it costs them to make - in the first place. Seriously, you folks who believe that just because your own lives are centered around your AirPods, Apple Watches, Apple TVs, iPhones, iPads, Macs and Apple services that the world revolves around Apple really need an adjustment. In reality Apple products are only a fraction of devices sold in any category except maybe smartwatches (if you limit it to actual smartwatches as opposed to cheap fitness trackers running firmware). 

    So if you think that Intel makes more money selling CPUs to Apple than they make selling them to, say, HP just because Apple makes a ton more money than HP does then you are absolutely totally wrong. Intel charges HP the exact same amount for those same Core i3, i7, i9 and Xeon CPUs that they charge Apple. As a result, they make more money off HP because HP sells way more computers than Apple does, even if they make much less money than Apple does in the process. 

    Finally, of course Apple's 5nm M1 is going to outperform Intel's 14nm Core i5. But when Intel's Core i5 is also 14nm in about 3 years (if they hire TSMC to make the chips) or 5 years (if they make the chips themselves)? Then we will see whose performance will wash over whose. Apple will have some advantages, namely the inherent efficiency of RISC vs ISA as well as Apple's strategy of maximizing performance from each core as opposed to Intel's - and everyone else's - strategy of maximizing cores. But Intel also has a performance attribute of their own: the densest core design in the industry. Meaning that a 10nm Intel design is the equivalent of a 7nm Apple one. So when Intel does get to a 5nm design, it will be the equivalent of a 3nm Apple one. So, we shall see ... 
    "In reality Apple products are only a fraction of devices sold in any category except maybe smartwatches" => Tablets are another market that Apple owns as well.
    edited November 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 84
    dewme said:
    Pjs said:
    The future of the Ipad pro is bleak.  Prices are higher.  And they still use the Ios base ....
    I wouldn't go as far as saying that. It really depends on your use cases and whether you need a touch based device and support for Apple Pencil, which is a big plus for iPad Pro and totally missing from MacBook Air. However, if you are leaving your iPad Pro permanently parked in a keyboard doc, don't use Apple Pencil, and don't really care about touch, the fanless M1 MacBook Air is a very attractive option for some folks.

    I've yet to find a detachable keyboard with iPad or MS Surface that was enjoyable to use when sitting on my lap. On the other hand, I've always considered the MacBook Air to be the most enjoyable laptop/notebook computer ever from an ergonomics perspective. The thin front edge, great keyboard, glorious trackpad, and lap stability is unmatched by any "composite" device.

    The least enjoyable Apple product from an ergonomic standpoint, for me, is the 12.9" iPad Pro. It's too tall, too wide, too heavy, and just too clumsy to hold and use just as a tablet. I feel like I'm holding a big screen TV in my hands when I'm cozied up on the sofa with it. But yes, it is pretty good as a small countertop TV in the kitchen when it's docked. I've had one for 3+ years and I really dislike it a lot. I'll either trade it in for a new iPad Air or a new M1 MacBook Air. I'm leaning much more towards the latter option because the MBA is such a joy to use and I have a smaller iPad Pro to fill my tablet needs. If the iPad Mini wasn't so far behind the technology and design curve I'd also get one of those for tablet-only usage, but I think my next Apple purchase will be an M1 MacBook Air. 
    "However, if you are leaving your iPad Pro permanently parked in a keyboard doc, don't use Apple Pencil, and don't really care about touch, the fanless M1 MacBook Air is a very attractive option for some folks."

    Hits the nail on the head.  Now that ASi Macs can run iOS, iPadOS, & macOS apps, the MBA / MBP have the potential to really eat into iPad Pro sales. Not that it hurts Apple in any way but it's something to watch nonetheless.  If (and that's a big IF) it does happen then that may not bode well for the iPad Pro lineup.
    edited November 2020 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 84
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.
    And you think that your one-man-show approach is better than Anandtech with an entire STAFF of professionals and a full LAB of testing gear?

    My GOD your arrogance and stupidity just showcased themselves with a damned spotlight! What a freaking idiot...
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.

    The village idiot complains about "appeal to authority", then turns around and does the same thing by talking about how they build their own systems to add credibility to their lies.

    Andrei from Anand is an actual chip designer who worked for Imagination at one point. Ian has a doctorate in Computational Chemistry from Oxford. Curious what your background relating to processor design is.
    Don’t gotta have a doctorate to know what’s right there in front of me. But you call me the idiot... funny.

    Come back to me with those precious little snarky responses when Apple and their Intel killer SOCs actually kill intel and replace all these high end work stations with iPads and MacBooks.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 70 of 84
    wizard69 said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.

    One thought I had....

    if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?
    Apple has never been successful selling servers.    In fact I'm not even sure they understand the market for small systems.  

    As for power per watt that is exactly where Apple has been most competitive.   Performance per watt is what makes the iPad great, they have great functionality in a thin device with performance nobody can match.   This is even more obvious when you consider that the MBA is now fan free.   Performance per watt is far more importnat in the portable world than in the data center.    In the data center it is about the electrical bill, in the portable world it is about getting work done without the battery dying.   
    They don't have to.  But there's nothing stopping them from designing custom SoC's for their own datacenters.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 84
    Sarkany said:

    But you call me the idiot... funny.
    Not the only one.

    Now go away.
    edited November 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 84
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    I have two questions: 
    1. Is it theoretically possible using any virtualization software that I will be able to run two copies of Big Sur on the same Apple Silicon computer?
    2. People talk about being able to run binaries for iOS/iPadOS on MacOS, because they are the same binaries, but does that also mean that I will be able to run macOS binaries on iPadOS (since it supports a mouse and keyboard)?
    I haven't noticed anyone talking about these issues. But I may have missed it. These are important questions for me.


    1. Yes. If Apple allows it.

    2. No. It works not because they are the "same" binaries. But because macOS contains theUIKit APIs necessary to support iOS/iPadOS apps. For macOS applications to work on iPadOS, Apple would need to include all of AppKit in iPadOS - and that's too much baggage for a mobile OS to carry. Apple would prefer developers use SwiftUI for creating cross-device apps.
    williamlondontmaymuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 73 of 84
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    kkqd1337 said:
    flydog said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.

    One thought I had....

    if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?
    You're dubious of Apple's claims?  So your position until you see evidence is that Apple is committing fraud by misrepresenting the capability of its hardware. 
    yea. you hit the nail on the head.

    whats the best selling windows computer its meant to be so much better than? some $200 education machine.

    Assuming it's as "crappy" as the A14 chip it's still better than most Windows virus-machines.

    cloudguy said:
    red oak said:
    Fun seeing washed up “ consultants” out there trying to push back the sea of Apple Silicon performance that is going to wash over x86
    What is "fun" is seeing the same people who spent most of the last 13 years predicting the death of Android when for much of that time it has had 60%-85% market share are claiming that Wintel is going to shrivel up and blow away when Macs only accounted for a 6% market share in 2019

    Besides the dumb logic to compare 1000 companies' sales to ONE company, Android cheated their way into the market by making knockoff Apple products and convincing the dumb public that they were "originals". Even Samsung gained a lot of sales by clueless people who thought they were buying a real iPhone. Then add the fact they're giving these knockoffs away and at sub 200 buck prices of course this disease will still exist today.

    But is it dying? YES.

    Apple has the biggest user base ever and less people want a knockoff especially an iPad knockoff.

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 84
    mjtomlin said:
    I have two questions: 
    1. Is it theoretically possible using any virtualization software that I will be able to run two copies of Big Sur on the same Apple Silicon computer?
    2. People talk about being able to run binaries for iOS/iPadOS on MacOS, because they are the same binaries, but does that also mean that I will be able to run macOS binaries on iPadOS (since it supports a mouse and keyboard)?
    I haven't noticed anyone talking about these issues. But I may have missed it. These are important questions for me.


    1. Yes. If Apple allows it.

    2. No. It works not because they are the "same" binaries. But because macOS contains theUIKit APIs necessary to support iOS/iPadOS apps. For macOS applications to work on iPadOS, Apple would need to include all of AppKit in iPadOS - and that's too much baggage for a mobile OS to carry. Apple would prefer developers use SwiftUI for creating cross-device apps.
    Your second answer illuminates me and I appreciate that information.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.
    And you think that your one-man-show approach is better than Anandtech with an entire STAFF of professionals and a full LAB of testing gear?

    My GOD your arrogance and stupidity just showcased themselves with a damned spotlight! What a freaking idiot...
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.

    The village idiot complains about "appeal to authority", then turns around and does the same thing by talking about how they build their own systems to add credibility to their lies.

    Andrei from Anand is an actual chip designer who worked for Imagination at one point. Ian has a doctorate in Computational Chemistry from Oxford. Curious what your background relating to processor design is.
    Don’t gotta have a doctorate to know what’s right there in front of me. But you call me the idiot... funny.

    Come back to me with those precious little snarky responses when Apple and their Intel killer SOCs actually kill intel and replace all these high end work stations with iPads and MacBooks.
    Sooo right!  And what’s right in front of you is a very well researched and documented comparison between a hand held processor family and a series of desktop chips.  Now obviously a man of your experience and intellect can work out that right? ::hurrah::

    And yet you come here, to a Mac specific forum, to challenge others to “come back to you” (funny!) when we meet the conditions of a straw-man argument you just propped up.  ::sigh::

    please go troll somewhere else.
    Rayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 84
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    mjtomlin said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.

    One thought I had....

    if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?

    Efficiency matters everywhere, not just in data centers. It allows you to push up performance without using more power and generating more heat. This is how and why the new MacBook Air does not need fan, but has 3x the performance as the Intel model.
    And in other news, Apple has recently clarified its licensing documentation to clear up some of the grey areas in system leasing.


    https://blog.macstadium.com/blog/developers-big-sur-and-vindication

    tmayphilboogiewatto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 84
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    I was wasting time on Twitter, and as it turns out, this trend line has been seen before – in the nineties. 






    https://hbr.org/1995/01/disruptive-technologies-catching-the-wave
    edited November 2020 Xedtmayjdb8167Bombdoewatto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 84
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    lkrupp said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    “Apple will never leave Intel”
    “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.”
    “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?”
    “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”

    I think that covers everything. 

    And we can see with our own eyes here, the theme of this thread has quickly turned to throwing shade on the M1 before it’s even in user’s hands. Those whose agenda is to throw shade, FUD, and confusion on everything Apple will be out in force next week as machines arrive in user’s hands. These are the same ones who call some of us fanboys while they are the exact opposite of fanboy. You don't have street cred here unless you dump on Apple at every opportunity. Being positive about Apple is taboo. Only negativity rules the day in Apple tech blogs.
    It's the MacRumorisation of AI, it's been in the works for some time, just this thread (like MR) the first post is negative - they compete to be the first to hold that position.
    Conflict brings ad clicks. Unfortunately, it's usually at the expense of real journalism.
    philboogiewilliamlondontmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 84
    XedXed Posts: 2,519member
    Rayz2016 said:

    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    I was wasting time on Twitter, and as it turns out, this trend line has been seen before – in the nineties. 






    https://hbr.org/1995/01/disruptive-technologies-catching-the-wave
    That article was a cool read. I'm glad someone saw the similarity in the graphs as many of us here have seen the writing on the wall for a very long time.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 84
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    robaba said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.
    And you think that your one-man-show approach is better than Anandtech with an entire STAFF of professionals and a full LAB of testing gear?

    My GOD your arrogance and stupidity just showcased themselves with a damned spotlight! What a freaking idiot...
    Sarkany said:
    Xed said:
    Sarkany said:
    Sarkany said:
    Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
    Yes, laughable...


    We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
    That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.

    You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
    I build my own systems, I benchmark my own systems, and I run real world tests on those systems. I have enough years of experience to back up my claims. All you’re doing is employing your appeal to authority fallacy and nothing else.

    The village idiot complains about "appeal to authority", then turns around and does the same thing by talking about how they build their own systems to add credibility to their lies.

    Andrei from Anand is an actual chip designer who worked for Imagination at one point. Ian has a doctorate in Computational Chemistry from Oxford. Curious what your background relating to processor design is.
    Don’t gotta have a doctorate to know what’s right there in front of me. But you call me the idiot... funny.

    Come back to me with those precious little snarky responses when Apple and their Intel killer SOCs actually kill intel and replace all these high end work stations with iPads and MacBooks.
    Sooo right!  And what’s right in front of you is a very well researched and documented comparison between a hand held processor family and a series of desktop chips.  Now obviously a man of your experience and intellect can work out that right? ::hurrah::

    And yet you come here, to a Mac specific forum, to challenge others to “come back to you” (funny!) when we meet the conditions of a straw-man argument you just propped up.  ::sigh::

    please go troll somewhere else.

    Ah, let's just wait a minute. This does bear a closer look, because this is another example of the classic retreating argument.

    It's starts with "Apple will never do this!" and then when Apple does it, then the argument retreats back to something else.

    In his ignorance/fear of what is coming, he's decided to retreat behind "come back to me when iPads and MacBooks replace high end workstations."

    Now even if we ignore the stupidity of the statement because these processors are not designed for high end workstations, then this isn't the ideal "last stand"position.  It would be preferable to draw the line at : "Come back to me when iPads and MacBooks replace desktops"

    But that defensive position wouldn't last very long.

    So in a couple of years, when Apple unveils the WS1, he'll sound the retreat, abandon his position and start digging a trench further into his own territory: "Come back to me when Apple ASi high end workstations replace cloud server farms."

    And so it goes on.

    And how do we know this? Because Intel has been telling itself the exact same thing for fifteen years.
    edited November 2020 jdb8167tmaywatto_cobra
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