Parallels, VMWare confirm Apple M1 support amid silence from other virtualization companie...

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in General Discussion edited November 2020
Parallels is actively working on a new version of its virtualization software that will be compatible with Apple Silicon and M1 machines, the company said on Tuesday.

Credit: Parallels
Credit: Parallels


The company said it is "excited to see the performance, power efficiency, and virtualization features" that Apple's new M1 chip brings to the Mac and MacBook lineups. But it noted that current versions of Parallels Desktop won't be compatible on the new devices.

A new version compatible with Apple Silicon was shown off at WWDC 2020, and Parallels said that the app has made "tremendous progress" since then. The company has switched Parallels Desktop to a universal binary, and has optimized its virtualization code."

Nick Dobrovolskiy, Parallels SVP of Engineering and Support, said the company is "eager to try" the new app on the M1-equipped MacBook Air, 13-inch MacBook Pro, and Mac mini.

In a tweet, VMWare Fusion also announced that it was working on an Apple Silicon-compatible version of its virtualization software. No other details were revealed, however.

So excited for todays announcements from @Apple!

While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon! pic.twitter.com/en1FNorxrM

-- VMware Fusion (@VMwareFusion)


Beyond those two, no other major virtualization or container companies have made similar announcements about compatibility with Apple Silicon. Oracle's VirtualBox, for example, has remained silent on the matter thus far. Developers for emulator WINE are "experimenting" with an ARM-based port, but haven't detailed any sort of actual compatibility.

Virtualization, along with Rosetta 2, is one of several initiatives that Apple says will make the switch to Apple Silicon smoother for developers and consumers. Boot Camp, long a way for users to run Windows on Mac hardware, will not make the transition.

Update: Added VMWare Fusion announcement of Apple Silicon support.
ronn
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 47
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    From reading their page about it, it seems like this new version is going to still be a purely virtualisation software, with no emulation. So if you want to run Windows with it, it'll have to be the ARM version of Windows. However, apparently Microsoft have announced a "Rosetta"-type layer for Windows for ARM, that will allow you to run x64 code in Windows for ARM.
    edited November 2020 razorpitcat52watto_cobrasuperkloton
  • Reply 2 of 47
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    mr. h said:
    From reading their page about it, it seems like this new version is going to still be a purely virtualisation software, with no emulation. So if you want to run Windows with it, it'll have to be the ARM version of Windows. However, apparently Microsoft have announced a "Rosetta"-type layer for Windows for ARM, that will allow you to run x64 code in Windows for ARM.
    A Microsoft version of Rosetta. What could go wrong there?  :D

    Here’s hoping Parallels is working on emulation for their next big release.
    rob53lollivercat52watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 3 of 47
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,946member
    I really hope VMWare jumps into the M1 camp with Fusion. It's been a solid product and a great value for Mac users who want to run Windows, Linux, and macOS virtual machines on their Mac. I keep a VM with macOS Mojave around just to support 32-bit apps that no longer run on Catalina. Works great.

    I don't think a lot of Mac owners fully realize the great deal that the VMWare Fusion Player 12 (for non commercial use) represents for Mac users. The feature set of the free VMWare Fusion Player has one important feature, Snapshots, in the free version that Windows users do not get with the equivalent free version for Windows. To get Snapshots on Windows you'll have to pay for the VMWare Workstation 16 Pro version, which is $199.00 USD. 


    viclauyyccloudguyDetnator
  • Reply 4 of 47
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,722member
    Other reading material:

    https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ Not really a lot of information other than they're building a universal app. They mention the Windows blog listed below.

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2020/09/30/now-more-essential-than-ever-the-role-of-the-windows-pc-has-changed/ "We are working closely with Acer, HP, Lenovo, Samsung and Surface to bring these Windows 10 on ARM innovations and products to our shared customers." No mention about "Apple" in this blog

    I thought Apple said they will not support any x86 emulation on the M1 chip. If Microsoft tries to build a Rosetta-type emulation software, I have to wonder if Apple will even allow it. If Microsoft is able to somehow create an emulation layer in front of Windows 10 that would run using Apple's Rosetta-2 it would be a miracle since Microsoft has problems writing any software that runs well on a Mac.
    viclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 47
    Did anyone see the Tweet from VMWARE announcing their support?  Details forthcoming:

    So excited for todays announcements from @Apple! ;

    While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon!
    jdb8167dewmeInspiredCodeAlex1Ncat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 47
    This article implies that VMWare Fusion hasn't committed to doing a version for Apple Silicon M1. That isn't true. They tweeted during the keynote:

    https://twitter.com/VMwareFusion/status/1326229094648832000
    @VMWareFusion

    So excited for todays announcements from @Apple! ;

    While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon! pic.twitter.com/en1FNorxrM

    They don't have a timeline yet but from what I understand, the Big Sur version of VMWare Fusion already uses the macOS hypervisor as an option so it shouldn't be a huge amount of work.

    This doesn't imply any ability to run Windows, just that you can run something in a VM. Probably macOS Big Sur or Linux for ARM etc.

    Edit: Added URL for the Tweet.
    edited November 2020 Alex1Ntmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 47
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member

    rob53 said:
    I thought Apple said they will not support any x86 emulation on the M1 chip.
    Once you've booted into Windows for ARM via a virtualisation app, there's nothing macOS can do to prevent Windows for ARM then running an emulation layer in order to run Windows apps compiled for x86 and x64. And in any case, why would you even want to prevent that?
    edited November 2020 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 47
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,722member
    youngjm said:
    Did anyone see the Tweet from VMWARE announcing their support?  Details forthcoming:

    So excited for todays announcements from @Apple! ;

    While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon!
    dewme said:
    I really hope VMWare jumps into the M1 camp with Fusion. It's been a solid product and a great value for Mac users who want to run Windows, Linux, and macOS virtual machines on their Mac. I keep a VM with macOS Mojave around just to support 32-bit apps that no longer run on Catalina. Works great.

    I don't think a lot of Mac owners fully realize the great deal that the VMWare Fusion Player 12 (for non commercial use) represents for Mac users. The feature set of the free VMWare Fusion Player has one important feature, Snapshots, in the free version that Windows users do not get with the equivalent free version for Windows. To get Snapshots on Windows you'll have to pay for the VMWare Workstation 16 Pro version, which is $199.00 USD. 


    This would be nice but again, I think most Fusion users want virtualization for Windows not for unix/linux and Apple has said they won't include or allow any x86 emulation.

    Checked out RedHat enterprise and found this:

    --ARM architectures
    While IBM Power and z Systems are not "new," ARM, specifically the 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture, is new. As an example of our multi-architecture enablement efforts, over the past two years Red Hat has delivered Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server for ARM as a Development Preview to partners designing and building systems based on 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture. This has helped to consolidate, stabilize and standardize ARM hardware support in the base operating system and move it forward to a more mature level.
    --

    https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/4-fine-linux-arm-distros/ Lists four free linux distributions that run on ARM. It would be interesting if Apple tries to recompile Bootcamp for ARM linux distributions or if they simply want users to use virtualization software. It would be nice to see linux running native under Bootcamp making use of the M1's advanced security architecture.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 9 of 47
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,521member
    @rob53 where does Apple say they won’t “allow” x86 emulation?
  • Reply 10 of 47
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member
    Not thrilled about Windows on ARM coming to the Mac, assuming it does. It offers nothing. It’s not Windows in that it doesn’t run any Windows software that isn’t recompiled for it. Additionally, performance is very poor on the one Qualcomm chip it does run on. This is like Windows phone 7, which only ran on a few chips Microsoft had it working on.

    MS would need to do something drastic to get it working on Apple’s chips. And Parallels would find performance to be a dog. With little software available for it, there’s no real purpose anyway. Right now, it only runs recompile’s of older 32 bit Windows software. 64 bit recompiled software support is planned, but for when? .NET, needed for proper software conversion to ARM won’t be out until the end of this year, assuming the best. But Microsoft has been working on different versions of Windows on ARM for, get this—9 years, and hasn’t gotten it right yet.
    razorpitAlex1N
  • Reply 11 of 47
    rob53 said:
    youngjm said:
    Did anyone see the Tweet from VMWARE announcing their support?  Details forthcoming:

    So excited for todays announcements from @Apple! ;

    While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon!
    dewme said:
    I really hope VMWare jumps into the M1 camp with Fusion. It's been a solid product and a great value for Mac users who want to run Windows, Linux, and macOS virtual machines on their Mac. I keep a VM with macOS Mojave around just to support 32-bit apps that no longer run on Catalina. Works great.

    I don't think a lot of Mac owners fully realize the great deal that the VMWare Fusion Player 12 (for non commercial use) represents for Mac users. The feature set of the free VMWare Fusion Player has one important feature, Snapshots, in the free version that Windows users do not get with the equivalent free version for Windows. To get Snapshots on Windows you'll have to pay for the VMWare Workstation 16 Pro version, which is $199.00 USD. 


    This would be nice but again, I think most Fusion users want virtualization for Windows not for unix/linux and Apple has said they won't include or allow any x86 emulation.

    Checked out RedHat enterprise and found this:

    --ARM architectures
    While IBM Power and z Systems are not "new," ARM, specifically the 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture, is new. As an example of our multi-architecture enablement efforts, over the past two years Red Hat has delivered Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server for ARM as a Development Preview to partners designing and building systems based on 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture. This has helped to consolidate, stabilize and standardize ARM hardware support in the base operating system and move it forward to a more mature level.
    --

    https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/4-fine-linux-arm-distros/ Lists four free linux distributions that run on ARM. It would be interesting if Apple tries to recompile Bootcamp for ARM linux distributions or if they simply want users to use virtualization software. It would be nice to see linux running native under Bootcamp making use of the M1's advanced security architecture.
    For me, the normal use of VMWare Fusion is to virtualize a macOS instance. I do this when I'm working on something for a client because I don't want to mix their requirements with my personal setup.

    Of course these just released machines might be a little lightweight for how I do work from my Mac. I currently have a 8 core 2013 MacPro with 64 GB. I don't know if 16 GB will cut it. Because VMWare will have to use the Big Sur Hypervisor, it may not allocate memory the same way. In that case, having only 16 GB might not be as bad. But if I want 2 macOS instances running simultaneously or 1 macOS VM, with 1 Linux or 1 Windows VM, then I can easily dedicate 16 to 20 GB or so just to the VMs in the current version of VMWare.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 12 of 47
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,121member

    rob53 said:
    youngjm said:
    Did anyone see the Tweet from VMWARE announcing their support?  Details forthcoming:

    So excited for todays announcements from @Apple! ;

    While we're not quite ready to announce our timeline, we're happy to say that we are committed to delivering VMware virtual machines on #AppleSilicon!
    dewme said:
    I really hope VMWare jumps into the M1 camp with Fusion. It's been a solid product and a great value for Mac users who want to run Windows, Linux, and macOS virtual machines on their Mac. I keep a VM with macOS Mojave around just to support 32-bit apps that no longer run on Catalina. Works great.

    I don't think a lot of Mac owners fully realize the great deal that the VMWare Fusion Player 12 (for non commercial use) represents for Mac users. The feature set of the free VMWare Fusion Player has one important feature, Snapshots, in the free version that Windows users do not get with the equivalent free version for Windows. To get Snapshots on Windows you'll have to pay for the VMWare Workstation 16 Pro version, which is $199.00 USD. 


    This would be nice but again, I think most Fusion users want virtualization for Windows not for unix/linux and Apple has said they won't include or allow any x86 emulation.

    Checked out RedHat enterprise and found this:

    --ARM architectures
    While IBM Power and z Systems are not "new," ARM, specifically the 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture, is new. As an example of our multi-architecture enablement efforts, over the past two years Red Hat has delivered Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server for ARM as a Development Preview to partners designing and building systems based on 64-bit ARMv8-A architecture. This has helped to consolidate, stabilize and standardize ARM hardware support in the base operating system and move it forward to a more mature level.
    --

    https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/4-fine-linux-arm-distros/ Lists four free linux distributions that run on ARM. It would be interesting if Apple tries to recompile Bootcamp for ARM linux distributions or if they simply want users to use virtualization software. It would be nice to see linux running native under Bootcamp making use of the M1's advanced security architecture.
    I don’t remember Apple saying they wouldn’t allow it, just that nothing was planned to make it easy.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 13 of 47
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    chadbag said:
    @rob53 where does Apple say they won’t “allow” x86 emulation?
    The claim is nonsense because Rosetta 2 is x86 emulation (well, strictly, it's x64 emulation).

    Edit: as others have pointed out below, this is not correct. It's translation, not emulation.
    edited November 2020 Alex1Ntmay
  • Reply 14 of 47
    chadbag said:
    @rob53 where does Apple say they won’t “allow” x86 emulation?
    Apple has said that Rosetta 2 is not appropriate for emulating a full OS under a VM. I think that is what was being interpreted. It makes sense. I doubt that Rosetta 2 is designed to work with anything that isn't in the user privilege ring. If someone wants to emulate a complete os under a VM, they will have to do the emulation/translation work themselves.
    Hap
  • Reply 15 of 47
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    melgross said:
    Not thrilled about Windows on ARM coming to the Mac, assuming it does. It offers nothing. It’s not Windows in that it doesn’t run any Windows software that isn’t recompiled for it.
    My understanding is that this isn't true - it has a translation layer just like Rosetta 2, so you can run x86 apps without a recompile. At least, that's what the Ars article I linked to above states.
    edited November 2020 InspiredCodeAlex1N
  • Reply 16 of 47

    melgross said:
    Not thrilled about Windows on ARM coming to the Mac, assuming it does. It offers nothing. It’s not Windows in that it doesn’t run any Windows software that isn’t recompiled for it. Additionally, performance is very poor on the one Qualcomm chip it does run on. This is like Windows phone 7, which only ran on a few chips Microsoft had it working on.

    MS would need to do something drastic to get it working on Apple’s chips. And Parallels would find performance to be a dog. With little software available for it, there’s no real purpose anyway. Right now, it only runs recompile’s of older 32 bit Windows software. 64 bit recompiled software support is planned, but for when? .NET, needed for proper software conversion to ARM won’t be out until the end of this year, assuming the best. But Microsoft has been working on different versions of Windows on ARM for, get this—9 years, and hasn’t gotten it right yet.
    I wouldn't say it offers nothing. If a VM could run Windows on ARM then Microsoft Windows could emulate 32-bit x86 windows software on a Mac. And Microsoft has said that AMD64 emulation is coming soon. That gives a complete method for running all Windows software on a Mac. It might be relatively slow but with the performance promised for the M1 Macs, it might still be pretty good (for everything except games).

    Edit: Clarification.
    edited November 2020 Alex1N
  • Reply 17 of 47
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,822member
    jdb8167 said:
    chadbag said:
    @rob53 where does Apple say they won’t “allow” x86 emulation?
    Apple has said that Rosetta 2 is not appropriate for emulating a full OS under a VM. I think that is what was being interpreted. It makes sense. I doubt that Rosetta 2 is designed to work with anything that isn't in the user privilege ring. If someone wants to emulate a complete os under a VM, they will have to do the emulation/translation work themselves.
    Correct
    HapInspiredCodeMacPro
  • Reply 18 of 47
    anomeanome Posts: 1,465member
    mr. h said:
    chadbag said:
    @rob53 where does Apple say they won’t “allow” x86 emulation?
    The claim is nonsense because Rosetta 2 is x86 emulation (well, strictly, it's x64 emulation).
    What they have said is that Rosetta 2 won't support virtualisation. That is not the same thing as saying they won't allow developers to write their own emulation or hypervisor (which VMWare mentions they are working on) that will support it.

    I'm a lot more positive about it than I was, after reading the Parallels and VMWare releases on Apple Silicon, but we shall still have to wait and see what they actually deliver.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 19 of 47
    rob53 said:
    https://www.linux.com/training-tutorials/4-fine-linux-arm-distros/ Lists four free linux distributions that run on ARM. It would be interesting if Apple tries to recompile Bootcamp for ARM linux distributions or if they simply want users to use virtualization software. It would be nice to see linux running native under Bootcamp making use of the M1's advanced security architecture.
    There will be no Bootcamp on Apple Silicon Macs. The boot loader is different and Apple propriety. Craig Federighi said this during the WWDC sessions.
    edited November 2020 razorpitAlex1NMacPro
  • Reply 20 of 47
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,490member
    1. Rosetta is not emulation, it’s translation. It translates x64 code to ARMv8 code and hooks that translated code into native APIs. It cannot be used to emulate an x86 system.

    2. At no point did Apple say they would disallow any kind of emulation.

    3. It won’t be too long before someone develops an actual x86 hardware emulator. (See qemu.org) It is obviously something that will eventually be needed by many users.
    edited November 2020 jdb8167mr. hAlex1Nmuthuk_vanalingam
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