People like free stuff. But there is no free lunch. Only freeloaders.
I don't understand what it is Apple has done to be called a freeloader. They do not make the tax laws in France. They pay every penny of tax they are ordered by law to pay. I have no problem with France saying they need more money in taxes. But I do have a problem with demonizing companies for not paying their fair share. Again, they do pay their fair share according to current laws. Do you think Apple should look at their current tax bill and volunteer to pay more because it is just not enough? What could they have done to not be a freeloader in your eyes?
The problem is that international companies have been doing business in other countries but not paying taxes to them. Instead they create fake headquarters in tax havens and only pay minimal taxes to those places -- not where they are actually making their profits. To say they are paying what is legally required of them is technically true -- but ignores how they've been gaming the system.
European countries have tired of being taken advantage of by international companies (mostly other than Apple).
Those loopholes were not put there by Apple or any other company. They were put there by the governments to give tax breaks to their cronies. Apple is playing the game board and pieces they inherited. Change the tax code. Don't vilify companies for using it to their advantage.
No, the tax system wasn't designed for international companies selling digital services -- so those companies have managed to game the system. So, they are updating the rules to take care of those gaming that old system.
Question: if Ireland can be taken to task by Brussels for not taxing enough, can France be forced to face its EU masters for taxing too much co pared with other subject states?
No, EU states can set their tax rates however they see fit. You’ve misunderstood what the problem with Ireland was.
Question: if Ireland can be taken to task by Brussels for not taxing enough, can France be forced to face its EU masters for taxing too much co pared with other subject states?
No, EU states can set their tax rates however they see fit. You’ve misunderstood what the problem with Ireland was.
Ah, there are lesser countries and not-so-lesser countries. Got it.
Question: if Ireland can be taken to task by Brussels for not taxing enough, can France be forced to face its EU masters for taxing too much co pared with other subject states?
No, EU states can set their tax rates however they see fit. You’ve misunderstood what the problem with Ireland was.
People like free stuff. But there is no free lunch. Only freeloaders.
I don't understand what it is Apple has done to be called a freeloader. They do not make the tax laws in France. They pay every penny of tax they are ordered by law to pay. I have no problem with France saying they need more money in taxes. But I do have a problem with demonizing companies for not paying their fair share. Again, they do pay their fair share according to current laws. Do you think Apple should look at their current tax bill and volunteer to pay more because it is just not enough? What could they have done to not be a freeloader in your eyes?
The problem is that international companies have been doing business in other countries but not paying taxes to them. Instead they create fake headquarters in tax havens and only pay minimal taxes to those places -- not where they are actually making their profits. To say they are paying what is legally required of them is technically true -- but ignores how they've been gaming the system.
European countries have tired of being taken advantage of by international companies (mostly other than Apple).
Those loopholes were not put there by Apple or any other company. They were put there by the governments to give tax breaks to their cronies. Apple is playing the game board and pieces they inherited. Change the tax code. Don't vilify companies for using it to their advantage.
The loopholes are exactly that, holes. They were not "put there" at all, they exist as a consequence of international tax law being really, really complicated, and cooperation between countries being hard. Companies with the resources to do so are able to take advantage of gaps or misalignments between countries.
That's the situation that France and the EU in general are trying to remedy - address the outright tax havens and secrecy jurisdictions, and reduce or mitigate the issues of gaps between tax systems by focusing on sales territories and minimum tax levels rather than the country where the profit is booked.
Will it work? Probably not 100%. Will it be fair? Probably not 100%. It is necessary to stop tax avoidance by very rich companies and individuals? 100%.
People like free stuff. But there is no free lunch. Only freeloaders.
I don't understand what it is Apple has done to be called a freeloader. They do not make the tax laws in France. They pay every penny of tax they are ordered by law to pay. I have no problem with France saying they need more money in taxes. But I do have a problem with demonizing companies for not paying their fair share. Again, they do pay their fair share according to current laws. Do you think Apple should look at their current tax bill and volunteer to pay more because it is just not enough? What could they have done to not be a freeloader in your eyes?
The problem is that international companies have been doing business in other countries but not paying taxes to them. Instead they create fake headquarters in tax havens and only pay minimal taxes to those places -- not where they are actually making their profits. To say they are paying what is legally required of them is technically true -- but ignores how they've been gaming the system.
European countries have tired of being taken advantage of by international companies (mostly other than Apple).
Those loopholes were not put there by Apple or any other company. They were put there by the governments to give tax breaks to their cronies. Apple is playing the game board and pieces they inherited. Change the tax code. Don't vilify companies for using it to their advantage.
Also, to be clear France is changing the tax code. That's exactly what this thread is about. And the response is that people are saying France should be subject to US reprisals and Apple should withdraw from France. And you're complaining about Apple being vilified?
So when the companies are criticised for their behaviour it's "don't vilify them for following the law, change the law" And when the law is changed it's "this change is vilifying companies who are just following the law, they should leave these law changing places" And just for good measure "the laws are only changed in the politicians interests, and Apple would never dirty themselves with such practices"
Apple sought out the Ireland tax arrangement. They dirty themselves all the time, all around the world.
But hey, people here like iPhones, so let's not say anything remotely critical of Apple ever. Because it's vilification, sure.
People like free stuff. But there is no free lunch. Only freeloaders.
I don't understand what it is Apple has done to be called a freeloader. They do not make the tax laws in France. They pay every penny of tax they are ordered by law to pay. I have no problem with France saying they need more money in taxes. But I do have a problem with demonizing companies for not paying their fair share. Again, they do pay their fair share according to current laws. Do you think Apple should look at their current tax bill and volunteer to pay more because it is just not enough? What could they have done to not be a freeloader in your eyes?
The problem is that international companies have been doing business in other countries but not paying taxes to them. Instead they create fake headquarters in tax havens and only pay minimal taxes to those places -- not where they are actually making their profits. To say they are paying what is legally required of them is technically true -- but ignores how they've been gaming the system.
European countries have tired of being taken advantage of by international companies (mostly other than Apple).
Those loopholes were not put there by Apple or any other company. They were put there by the governments to give tax breaks to their cronies. Apple is playing the game board and pieces they inherited. Change the tax code. Don't vilify companies for using it to their advantage.
The loopholes are exactly that, holes. They were not "put there" at all, they exist as a consequence of international tax law being really, really complicated, and cooperation between countries being hard. Companies with the resources to do so are able to take advantage of gaps or misalignments between countries.
That's the situation that France and the EU in general are trying to remedy - address the outright tax havens and secrecy jurisdictions, and reduce or mitigate the issues of gaps between tax systems by focusing on sales territories and minimum tax levels rather than the country where the profit is booked.
Will it work? Probably not 100%. Will it be fair? Probably not 100%. It is necessary to stop tax avoidance by very rich companies and individuals? 100%.
Agreed. Let’s stop tax avoidance. 100% What is tax avoidance? Is it against the law? No. So how can you stop it? If we change the law and make some practices illegal they would become tax evasions instead of tax avoidance. Basically, you can’t stop tax avoidance. But you can reduce it. And only in cooperation with other countries. But they are busy with their Tarif wars, after which their citizens got to pay those Tarifs.
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So, they are updating the rules to take care of those gaming that old system.
That's the situation that France and the EU in general are trying to remedy - address the outright tax havens and secrecy jurisdictions, and reduce or mitigate the issues of gaps between tax systems by focusing on sales territories and minimum tax levels rather than the country where the profit is booked.
Will it work? Probably not 100%. Will it be fair? Probably not 100%. It is necessary to stop tax avoidance by very rich companies and individuals? 100%.
So when the companies are criticised for their behaviour it's "don't vilify them for following the law, change the law"
And when the law is changed it's "this change is vilifying companies who are just following the law, they should leave these law changing places"
And just for good measure "the laws are only changed in the politicians interests, and Apple would never dirty themselves with such practices"
Apple sought out the Ireland tax arrangement. They dirty themselves all the time, all around the world.
But hey, people here like iPhones, so let's not say anything remotely critical of Apple ever. Because it's vilification, sure.
What is tax avoidance? Is it against the law? No. So how can you stop it?
If we change the law and make some practices illegal they would become tax evasions instead of tax avoidance.
Basically, you can’t stop tax avoidance.
But you can reduce it. And only in cooperation with other countries. But they are busy with their Tarif wars, after which their citizens got to pay those Tarifs.