I admit it doesn't look like a bus, but functionally, it is. It is the physical connection between eGPUs and the CPU, exactly as a PCIe bus provides. It serves the exact same purpose as a PCIe bus: connecting an external device to the CPU. You have to learn to think outside the bus.
What on earth are you talking about?
Your original proposition was that Apple drop PCIe support and just use Thunderbolt because it's faster, a very false statement. Then you shifted to saying that optical cabling could make up the difference, a false statement, since the protocol is not bottlenecked by the cable. Now you're saying that fibre cable is a bus, a fundamental misunderstanding of what a bus is?
Give up and go home dude, doubling down on your ignorance has not worked out well for you here.
You're still attacking me over something that I already conceded (the speed of Thunderbolt).
I'm simply suggesting Apple do more of what it has already done... attach devices via some newer connection, probably based on fiber optics. You are denying that Apple has already done exactly what I'm proposing, with video cards. Video has to be the most demanding peripheral possible and Apple has moved it off the PCIe physical slots and onto a different physical connector. Why do you have a problem with Apple doing that again for other devices like storage and memory? Apple could call it eSSD or eRAM just like they call it eGPU.
I admit it doesn't look like a bus, but functionally, it is. It is the physical connection between eGPUs and the CPU, exactly as a PCIe bus provides. It serves the exact same purpose as a PCIe bus: connecting an external device to the CPU. You have to learn to think outside the bus.
What on earth are you talking about?
Your original proposition was that Apple drop PCIe support and just use Thunderbolt because it's faster, a very false statement. Then you shifted to saying that optical cabling could make up the difference, a false statement, since the protocol is not bottlenecked by the cable. Now you're saying that fibre cable is a bus, a fundamental misunderstanding of what a bus is?
Give up and go home dude, doubling down on your ignorance has not worked out well for you here.
You're still attacking me over something that I already conceded (the speed of Thunderbolt).
I'm simply suggesting Apple do more of what it has already done... attach devices via some newer connection, probably based on fiber optics. You are denying that Apple has already done exactly what I'm proposing, with video cards. Video has to be the most demanding peripheral possible and Apple has moved it off the PCIe physical slots and onto a different physical connector. Why do you have a problem with Apple doing that again for other devices like storage and memory? Apple could call it eSSD or eRAM just like they call it eGPU.
I'm not denying eGPUs (I have one), nor do I have necessarily have a problem with the idea of eOtherStuff, apart from the inefficiency and the thought of the nightmarish cable spider, but there's simply no suggestion Apple will do that, or that anyone has any appetite for that technology, apart from your ill-informed musings. You're starting stupid conversations based on half baked ideas and trying to make out that you're the reasonable one.
Apple have not moved video onto a peripheral, every Mac handles video on the main logic board or a discrete internal GPU. eGPUs are just an option that Apple support for users that want it, which is apparently a low proportion. You can already connect storage including SSDs via Thunderbolt, or any number of other connections that your machine supports. Apple have just unified their RAM for M1 Macs into a single SOC package, citing the speed benefits; you really think they're going to have any time for slow ass RAM external to the machine?
Crucially, neither RAM or storage is typically attached to a PCIe slot. Again, you are unspeakably ignorant about this, so please just stop.
Optical fiber isn't faster than copper for this. Both can get full Thunderbolt speeds.
You can also buy optical Thunderbolt cables already. Have been able to for years. The starting cost is a lot higher than that of copper cables. Corning makes cables up to 50m:
AOC-CCU6JPN005M20
AOC-CCU6JPN010M20
AOC-CCU6JPN015M20
AOC-CCU6JPN025M20
AOC-CCU6JPN050M20
The number just ahead of the "M20" is the cable's length in meters.
I wasn't aware of the optical TB cables, thanks.
Sure, copper Thunderbolt is as fast as fiber Thunderbolt now, but fiber is faster than copper in general. Copper currently can't transmit faster than 40 gigabits per second but fiber has a current maximum of 200+ terabits per second. That's 5000 times faster. It's even 1000 times faster than PCIe v4 16-bit. I was simply speculating that fiber could hypothetically replace PCIe.
You can get active 100g copper cables. They're not even that expensive. DAC-QSFP28-100G-5M-PRO is an active 100g copper cable 5 meters long for $265. Meanwhile, 100g QSFP optical transceivers generally cost around $700 each, and you need two to make a connection. Active 400g copper cables should be possible, but will likely add noticeable latency for signal timing correction.
The big advantages of fiber are cost over distance (each additional meter of fiber is basically free) and the ability to send signals from many endpoints down the same fiber. Last I checked, the 200+ Tbps you mention can only be achieved with around 400 systems all sending data using different spectra of light, which are then combined. Single-endpoint limitations are in the same order of magnitude as copper limitations, because the endpoints use copper to get from the RAM and processor to the optical transceiver.
Hopefully it’s a handheld Apple microphone together with a karaoke feature for Apple Music. This would be huge. It’s insane that Apple hasn’t done this yet.
Yes of course I knew that PCIe was a physical bus and TB was a physical cable/connector. But I think you missed my point. Consider that Apple has recently allowed users to switch from using PCIe as the connection between their Mac's CPU and their video cards and instead use TB as the "bus" for eGPUs. The TB cable is now the "bus" for video cards. I don't care that it doesn't look like a "bus," it still is. And it could be the bus for other things too, perhaps for storage or even RAM. And since the bandwidth of fiber optic currently can reach 2000+ terabits per second, why is this not a good idea? All I'm suggesting is that Apple do the same thing for other devices that it has done for video cards. How is that bad?
It’s not even worth trying to reply to this as you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Almost everything you said here is fundamentally wrong, so your “suggestion” is nonsense.
I admit it doesn't look like a bus, but functionally, it is. It is the physical connection between eGPUs and the CPU, exactly as a PCIe bus provides. It serves the exact same purpose as a PCIe bus: connecting an external device to the CPU. You have to learn to think outside the bus.
Also 100% wrong. I’m not sure why you think you understand any of this, but you should stop telling other people you do.
Yes of course I knew that PCIe was a physical bus and TB was a physical cable/connector. But I think you missed my point. Consider that Apple has recently allowed users to switch from using PCIe as the connection between their Mac's CPU and their video cards and instead use TB as the "bus" for eGPUs. The TB cable is now the "bus" for video cards. I don't care that it doesn't look like a "bus," it still is. And it could be the bus for other things too, perhaps for storage or even RAM. And since the bandwidth of fiber optic currently can reach 2000+ terabits per second, why is this not a good idea? All I'm suggesting is that Apple do the same thing for other devices that it has done for video cards. How is that bad?
No, no and no. Please, just stop this nonsense. You really have no idea as to how any of this works. There is a reason we’re all trying to explain this to you. You say you understand, but then go on to make statements that are totally wrong. Just give it up. The speed of fiber has nothing to do with what you’re saying.
we don’t care that you don’t care about reality. It’s NOT a bus. Do you really think all of these scientists and engineers across an entire industry are stupider, and less knowledgeable about this than you? Because that’s what you’re saying. If this were possible, in any way whatsoever, it would be done already.
I admit it doesn't look like a bus, but functionally, it is. It is the physical connection between eGPUs and the CPU, exactly as a PCIe bus provides. It serves the exact same purpose as a PCIe bus: connecting an external device to the CPU. You have to learn to think outside the bus.
Again. No, it is not. It doesn’t serve the same purpose.
are you really serious, or is all of this ignorance really concealing that you’re just trying to bother us. Because it’s really difficult to believe that you can be so aggressively ignorant about all of this. Your last sentence has me believing that you’re just trying to be annoying.
I admit it doesn't look like a bus, but functionally, it is. It is the physical connection between eGPUs and the CPU, exactly as a PCIe bus provides. It serves the exact same purpose as a PCIe bus: connecting an external device to the CPU. You have to learn to think outside the bus.
Again. No, it is not. It doesn’t serve the same purpose.
are you really serious, or is all of this ignorance really concealing that you’re just trying to bother us. Because it’s really difficult to believe that you can be so aggressively ignorant about all of this. Your last sentence has me believing that you’re just trying to be annoying.
Dear-oh-dear...
In the words of the late Rodney King - "can we all get along?"
Comments
I'm simply suggesting Apple do more of what it has already done... attach devices via some newer connection, probably based on fiber optics. You are denying that Apple has already done exactly what I'm proposing, with video cards. Video has to be the most demanding peripheral possible and Apple has moved it off the PCIe physical slots and onto a different physical connector. Why do you have a problem with Apple doing that again for other devices like storage and memory? Apple could call it eSSD or eRAM just like they call it eGPU.
Apple have not moved video onto a peripheral, every Mac handles video on the main logic board or a discrete internal GPU. eGPUs are just an option that Apple support for users that want it, which is apparently a low proportion.
You can already connect storage including SSDs via Thunderbolt, or any number of other connections that your machine supports.
Apple have just unified their RAM for M1 Macs into a single SOC package, citing the speed benefits; you really think they're going to have any time for slow ass RAM external to the machine?
Crucially, neither RAM or storage is typically attached to a PCIe slot. Again, you are unspeakably ignorant about this, so please just stop.
The big advantages of fiber are cost over distance (each additional meter of fiber is basically free) and the ability to send signals from many endpoints down the same fiber. Last I checked, the 200+ Tbps you mention can only be achieved with around 400 systems all sending data using different spectra of light, which are then combined. Single-endpoint limitations are in the same order of magnitude as copper limitations, because the endpoints use copper to get from the RAM and processor to the optical transceiver.
Or something related to Fitness+ launching the same day perhaps?
But most likely it’s headphones.
https://www.tdk.com/en/featured_stories/entry_022.html?utm_source=twitter_us&utm_medium=ad_022_pc&utm_campaign=featured_stories
Also 100% wrong. I’m not sure why you think you understand any of this, but you should stop telling other people you do.
Again. No, it is not. It doesn’t serve the same purpose.
are you really serious, or is all of this ignorance really concealing that you’re just trying to bother us. Because it’s really difficult to believe that you can be so aggressively ignorant about all of this. Your last sentence has me believing that you’re just trying to be annoying.
In the words of the late Rodney King - "can we all get along?"
Is Thunderbolt a bus? Yes, it is...
The Titfield Thunderbolt Swanage Railway Bus