US government designates drone maker DJI as a national security concern

Posted:
in General Discussion
The U.S. government on Friday added drone maker DJI to a list of Chinese companies designated as national security concerns, and by doing so, banned the export of U.S. technology to the company.

Credit: DJI
Credit: DJI


DJI was added to the so-called Entity List by the Commerce Department on Friday, Reuters reported. The move bans U.S. companies from exporting technology to the drone maker.

Specifically, the Commerce Department said it was adding DJI -- along with three other companies -- to the blacklist because it "enabled wide-scale human rights abuses within China through abusive genetic and analysis or high-technology surveillance."

Although not confirmed, that's likely a reference to DJI reportedly providing drones to the Chinese government. In March, Bloomberg reported that DJI drones were being used to surveil detention centers in Xinjiang.

The ban is being implemented through the same process that barred U.S. companies from exporting technology to smartphone maker Huawei.

Because of that, DJI's supply chain is likely to be snarled by the restrictions on components and parts produced by U.S. companies. It could also make it more difficult for U.S. firms to carry out transactions or sell DJI products. That's especially true if China retaliates with its own restrictions.

The Commerce Department filing does allow for a "case-by-case" exemption for products used to detect, identify, and treat infectious diseases. It isn't clear if any of DJI's products will qualify for that exemption.

While it represents an escalation of the Trump Administration's ongoing efforts against Chinese companies, the move also follows government security concerns about Chinese drones. In October, the Justice Department banned the use of agency funds to purchase foreign-made drones. Earlier in 2020, the U.S. Department of the Interior grounded its drone fleet as it investigated security concerns.

Apple sells DJI drones and other products directly on its online storefront.
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,045member
    “Specifically, the Commerce Department said it was adding DJI -- along with three other companies -- to the blacklist because it "enabled wide-scale human rights abuses within China through abusive genetic and analysis or high-technology surveillance...”

    Pot meet kettle. 
    rob53Rayz2016muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 2 of 32
    Civilian drone technology is one thing that DJI/China do better than the rest of the world and by large margin. And they are not copying from other, they are leading.

    I don’t see any meaningful drone companies from the rest of the world in this field. The other top 2 also from China, sadly. But again the market is just not that big for big tech to join in. Even other companies joined, the mass production will likely in China anyway.

    The one thing that makes me hesitate to buy a DJI drone is they always send data home. I don’t know why and I don’t see the need. And I don’t trust CCP a single bit. 



    jas99ronnGG1gatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 32
    viclauyyc said:
    Civilian drone technology is one thing that DJI/China do better than the rest of the world and by large margin. And they are not copying from other, they are leading.

    I don’t see any meaningful drone companies from the rest of the world in this field. The other top 2 also from China, sadly. But again the market is just not that big for big tech to join in. Even other companies joined, the mass production will likely in China anyway.

    The one thing that makes me hesitate to buy a DJI drone is they always send data home. I don’t know why and I don’t see the need. And I don’t trust CCP a single bit. 



    No, DJI Drones do not send data home.. You can chose not to have flight data, which is largely useless anyway sync'ed to a server if you wish to retain data for a long time... Its opt in as well, you have to chose to enable it.  Otherwise the device which logs all your flight data will eventually fill with flight log data unless you manage it yourself.  Which it does require to some degree anyway..

    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, I may not care one bit for the CCP or how they do things or treat their citizens, but this isn't going to change anything, 
    edited December 2020 gregoriusmrob53GeorgeBMacdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    viclauyyc said:
    I don’t see any meaningful drone companies from the rest of the world in this field. The other top 2 also from China, sadly. But again the market is just not that big for big tech to join in. Even other companies joined, the mass production will likely in China anyway.

    Possibly because they can't compete on price. Any drones made in the US would need to have decently paid labor whereas China can use what's essentially slave labor. This is the problem with companies sending their manufacturing over there: it sets a precedence on production cost that free countries can't meet.
    spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    mac_dog said:
    “Specifically, the Commerce Department said it was adding DJI -- along with three other companies -- to the blacklist because it "enabled wide-scale human rights abuses within China through abusive genetic and analysis or high-technology surveillance...”

    Pot meet kettle. 
    No country is perfect, but there is no moral equivalence here.

    If you believe there is, then put your $$ (or € or whatever) where your (supposed) principles are, and stop patronizing US products and services, starting the product that appears in your username.
    JWSCspock1234SpamSandwichStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 32

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
  • Reply 7 of 32

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
    Again, would they do that if they had a "choice"? Maybe, then again, how much of what you hear really true or propaganda. There is little doubt perhaps that China's population is well monitored, that appears to be done by cell phones if again, reports are real.. Whether there is constant drone surveillance is something else that I don't think we can be real sure of.. perhaps thats happening too....   
  • Reply 8 of 32
    If Chinese leaders are using DJI drones to abuse human rights then the US should also be sanctioning Chinese leaders who are responsible for human rights violations the same way that it sanctions Russian oligarchs. Oh wait, I think they are, as of this month:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-china-sanctions/exclusive-us-preparing-new-sanctions-on-chinese-officials-over-hong-kong-crackdown-sources-idUSL4N2IN0AO <--
  • Reply 9 of 32
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,048member
    Any Chinese company making products for the U.S. consumer is by default, partly owned by the CCP.  There is no "if", "and", or "but" about it.  DJI, Huawei, TikTok, etc... they can whine and complain all they want but it doesn't change the truth.  The CCP just as easily order DJI to start covert spying on foreign users.  The company can claim they don't do that, maybe they don't, maybe they're lying.  Either way, I make a conscious effort to not purchase anything designed and made by any Chinese company.  I refuse to send my money to that wretched government.

    That being said, you won't find our U.S. government ordering companies like Apple, Cisco, etc... to spy on Chinese users.  Sure, I supposed the NSA can intercept Cisco equipment in mid-transit, without Cisco's knowledge and insert spying equipment/chips into the units like some rumors have been suggested, but you won't find our private, consumer companies being in the cahoots with the U.S.  That's the difference.

    The CCP can shove their unlubed thumbs right up their backsides as far as it'll go.  I hope one day that everyone will see China for what it is, and stop purchasing from them in addition to getting all manufacturing out of there.

    Sorry DJI.  I actually like your drones but unless you divest yourself 100% away from the CCP, you're not getting my sale.
    edited December 2020 spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,202member

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
    I wish I knew what that even means.  Are they talking about the Chinese government in general or are these vague accusations specific to DJI?

    Although drones were kind of cool 10 years ago, their novelty has worn off.  Business and government application of drone technology will dominate their use down the road.  Privacy and security concerns will become paramount. It’s already too easy to use them as surveillance assets or even as bomb delivery devices.  The era of flying drones for fun will become highly regulated and not everyone will be permitted to own one.  This prospect doesn’t thrill me.  But drone technology opens too many doors to some potentially very bad actors.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 32
    normang said:

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
    Again, would they do that if they had a "choice"? Maybe, then again, how much of what you hear really true or propaganda. There is little doubt perhaps that China's population is well monitored, that appears to be done by cell phones if again, reports are real.. Whether there is constant drone surveillance is something else that I don't think we can be real sure of.. perhaps thats happening too....   
    The CCP is doing far more than that here in the US... Their tactics are being exposed. It’s shocking what they’ve done here, all while we sit on our lazy bums and think they’re not a threat. They’re literally tying to dismantle the US, from outside and within, and are succeeding, in order to become the world’s power.
    spock1234SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    georgie01 said:
    normang said:

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
    Again, would they do that if they had a "choice"? Maybe, then again, how much of what you hear really true or propaganda. There is little doubt perhaps that China's population is well monitored, that appears to be done by cell phones if again, reports are real.. Whether there is constant drone surveillance is something else that I don't think we can be real sure of.. perhaps thats happening too....   
    The CCP is doing far more than that here in the US... Their tactics are being exposed. It’s shocking what they’ve done here, all while we sit on our lazy bums and think they’re not a threat. They’re literally tying to dismantle the US, from outside and within, and are succeeding, in order to become the world’s power.
    Why is it that everyone focuses on what China is doing to the US, but gives Russia a free pass? Putin molested your democracy while it was sleeping, and put bounties on US soldiers. And your big problem is … drones. 

    edited December 2020 GeorgeBMacdewmemuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 32
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    HeliBum said:
    viclauyyc said:
    I don’t see any meaningful drone companies from the rest of the world in this field. The other top 2 also from China, sadly. But again the market is just not that big for big tech to join in. Even other companies joined, the mass production will likely in China anyway.

    Possibly because they can't compete on price. Any drones made in the US would need to have decently paid labor whereas China can use what's essentially slave labor. This is the problem with companies sending their manufacturing over there: it sets a precedence on production cost that free countries can't meet.
    So the problem is that the disadvantages suffered by African-Americans means they’re not skilled enough to assemble complex electronic components by the time they’re incarcerated to be used as slave labour. 

    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 32
    mac_dog said:
    “Specifically, the Commerce Department said it was adding DJI -- along with three other companies -- to the blacklist because it "enabled wide-scale human rights abuses within China through abusive genetic and analysis or high-technology surveillance...”

    Pot meet kettle. 
    No country is perfect, but there is no moral equivalence here.

    If you believe there is, then put your $$ (or € or whatever) where your (supposed) principles are, and stop patronizing US products and services, starting the product that appears in your username.

    Please stop with the double standard.
    If you have values those values apply to all -- not just your competitors.
  • Reply 15 of 32
    If Chinese leaders are using DJI drones to abuse human rights then the US should also be sanctioning Chinese leaders who are responsible for human rights violations the same way that it sanctions Russian oligarchs. Oh wait, I think they are, as of this month:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-china-sanctions/exclusive-us-preparing-new-sanctions-on-chinese-officials-over-hong-kong-crackdown-sources-idUSL4N2IN0AO <--

    Perhaps, we should then be sanctioning our own leaders for their human rights abuses.  Oh yeh....  The Double Standard.  I forgot.   
  • Reply 16 of 32
    sflocal said:
    Any Chinese company making products for the U.S. consumer is by default, partly owned by the CCP.  There is no "if", "and", or "but" about it.  DJI, Huawei, TikTok, etc... they can whine and complain all they want but it doesn't change the truth.  The CCP just as easily order DJI to start covert spying on foreign users.  The company can claim they don't do that, maybe they don't, maybe they're lying.  Either way, I make a conscious effort to not purchase anything designed and made by any Chinese company.  I refuse to send my money to that wretched government.

    That being said, you won't find our U.S. government ordering companies like Apple, Cisco, etc... to spy on Chinese users.  Sure, I supposed the NSA can intercept Cisco equipment in mid-transit, without Cisco's knowledge and insert spying equipment/chips into the units like some rumors have been suggested, but you won't find our private, consumer companies being in the cahoots with the U.S.  That's the difference.

    The CCP can shove their unlubed thumbs right up their backsides as far as it'll go.  I hope one day that everyone will see China for what it is, and stop purchasing from them in addition to getting all manufacturing out of there.

    Sorry DJI.  I actually like your drones but unless you divest yourself 100% away from the CCP, you're not getting my sale.

    The difference is in the propaganda you choose to believe -- not the country.
  • Reply 17 of 32
    Amazing how the China Haters crawl out from under their rocks at the mere mention of the country.  You would almost think they had a string that got pulled. 

    Meanwhile, while the instigator and leader of China-Haters-Incorporated successfully kept their eyes and attention laser focused on China, his buddy and partner over in Russia gained control of 18,000 U.S. computer systems -- including Defense, Treasury, Commerce and even those of our nuclear arsenal.   At minimum they monitored communications and stole information.   But we have no way of knowing what they did with their control of those systems and how deep their roots are into those systems or how far it spread..

    Even though this is the second known, documented serious attack on our country by the same Russian Oligarch that has severely weakened the nation, Let's Keep Hating on China!   Keep the smear campaign going!   Keep the fact free allegations flowing!

    Such fools.....   So easily distracted...   So easily led by the nose...   "Hey!  Don't Look at my Friend and Partner, Look over there!"  
    DAalseth
  • Reply 18 of 32
    Just wondering, from a different perspective.....

    In the past, there may be little incentives that appeal to the tech companies in China to invest good $ in R&D and develop its own capabilities end-to-end, given there are readily available components, chips, etc from US and others.

    What if all these blacklisting by the US just pushes them up to a corner hence sufficient incentives to expedite R&D to strengthen its end-to-end abilities, and build products that people wants and at fraction of the price. From an old Chinese saying - dog can jump fences when cornered”. It will be very interesting to revisit where China and US are by 2025-2030.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 19 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    chaicka said:
    Just wondering, from a different perspective.....

    In the past, there may be little incentives that appeal to the tech companies in China to invest good $ in R&D and develop its own capabilities end-to-end, given there are readily available components, chips, etc from US and others.

    What if all these blacklisting by the US just pushes them up to a corner hence sufficient incentives to expedite R&D to strengthen its end-to-end abilities, and build products that people wants and at fraction of the price. From an old Chinese saying - dog can jump fences when cornered”. It will be very interesting to revisit where China and US are by 2025-2030.

    That's not quite true and likely based on an obsolete view of China.
    Huawei for instance spent more on R&D than Apple -- almost $20Billion.

    But, you are correct that the country (including Huawei) are spending big bucks to insure that they no longer have any dependencies on the U.S. and its shills.  The loser, of course, will be the U.S. which hasn't invested a dime in itself in over 2 decades and, for the last 20 years, has been living off of borrowed money.

    Biden however plans to invest big in the future.  But, Republicans will do their utmost to block any and all investment.   Which is just weird for for a party that purports to promote business!   Obviously China has business people in their government who are better at free market capitalism than we do.  They seem to understand that without investment you don't get a return and you don't have a future.  We used to know that.   But we seem to have forgotten.  The only thing we invest in are weapons of destruction -- which,weirdly enough, only produce destruction.
  • Reply 20 of 32
    georgie01 said:
    normang said:

    normang said:


    Plus blaming DJI for something they really have no choice in, to me is silly, 
    They can start by jettisoning their "... abusive genetic analysis and high technology surveillance..." (assuming the accusations are true).
    Again, would they do that if they had a "choice"? Maybe, then again, how much of what you hear really true or propaganda. There is little doubt perhaps that China's population is well monitored, that appears to be done by cell phones if again, reports are real.. Whether there is constant drone surveillance is something else that I don't think we can be real sure of.. perhaps thats happening too....   
    The CCP is doing far more than that here in the US... Their tactics are being exposed. It’s shocking what they’ve done here, all while we sit on our lazy bums and think they’re not a threat. They’re literally tying to dismantle the US, from outside and within, and are succeeding, in order to become the world’s power.
    And the flow of Chinese government money into domestic terror groups Antifa and BLM are just part of their attacks on the US. 
    watto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.