Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
Well yeah, except unlike what MS does, Apple didn’t copy it, they bought it.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
Well yeah, except unlike what MS does, Apple didn’t copy it, they bought it.
They bought it to create a copy of Windows Hello, FaceID. So it looks like they are like MS.
LOL. One could not write a more ridiculous 30 year story about Microsoft copying and following Apple. Windows. Luna UI. Zune. Windows phone. Surface. It’s comical!
Remembers to me the “leading by following” motto from Samsung. Would be that MS inspired Sammy?
Glad someone else remembers it. Sammy has wiped that quote from the face of the internet. Like how they've removed their ads mocking Apple for something they later copied themselves.
A few press releases such as "researchers study benefits of Microsoft HoloLens" hardly demonstrates how this is a product that's actually useful much less commonly used which was the point I made previously.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
Also, you seem to have a twisted sense of logic. For starters, the company you are referring to is called "PrimeSense", not "PixelSense". Further, FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense. Finally, it wasn't Microsoft's technology to begin with, so explain how this would be an example of Apple copying Microsoft. The technology isn't even used for the same thing. PrimeSense is used to sense motions and gestures, not for authentication. Further, Windows Hello is definitely less sophisticated and secure, so no, this isn't an example of Apple copying Microsoft.
I noticed that you compare Azure with AWS, GCP and iCloud, but @KITA was not referring that. Here are some link that will explain, and you'll see there is a lot of innovation involved,
A few press releases such as "researchers study benefits of Microsoft HoloLens" hardly demonstrates how this is a product that's actually useful much less commonly used which was the point I made previously.
It looks like Hololens is useful enough for Toyora and MB USA to be in a production environment. And like I posted before, I don't think that something has to be commonly used to be considered innovative, don't you think?
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
Also, you seem to have a twisted sense of logic. For starters, the company you are referring to is called "PrimeSense", not "PixelSense". Further, FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense. Finally, it wasn't Microsoft's technology to begin with, so explain how this would be an example of Apple copying Microsoft. The technology isn't even used for the same thing. PrimeSense is used to sense motions and gestures, not for authentication. Further, Windows Hello is definitely less sophisticated and secure, so no, this isn't an example of Apple copying Microsoft.
Thank for clarifying the PixelSense name. And yes, I agree that FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense, same as it happens with Windows Hello. Third, the technology MS developed with PrimeSense was first used in the Xbox 360 with the Kinect. As you said, it was used for motion and gestures detection. But it looks like you don't know that the Kinect authenticated users in the Xbox,
MS improved the technology and integrated it 5 years ago in the Surface Pro 4, and improve it in modern devices. So now Apple acquires PrimeSense to do what MS did many years ago with the Xbox and the Surface. IMO, this is an example of Apple copying MS. BTW, how do you know it is less sophisticated and less secure than Windows Hello? How do you even measure which one is more secure?
I noticed that you compare Azure with AWS, GCP and iCloud, but @KITA was not referring that. Here are some link that will explain, and you'll see there is a lot of innovation involved,
Maybe these technologies are not used by everyone, but I don't think that's a criteria to define if something is innovative or not.
I'm fully aware of what Azure is and I use it professionally as well. Microsoft is doing well here, it's just not something unique to them.
And again, Azure as a cloud service maybe is not unique, but there is a lot of innovation in the development of those datacenters. Also the technology behind Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics Remote Assist is very impressive and innovative. Just look at the links.
It’s a great tome to be an Apple enthusiast. Like Hockey great Wayne Gretzky Apple skates to where the puck will be instead of where’s it’s at. And it remains funnier than hell to watch Apple do something, get mocked by the competition, declared DOA by the trolls under the AI bridge, and see the competition and the critics follow suit.
I'm not seeing what you're saying here. Surely, it's a mix and Apple gets it wrong as much as anyone else too. As for mocking. It's the same, everybody gets mocked.
Do you think the new Max case will set an industry trend?
Did FaceID set a trend? Was relying on ONE biometric a wise idea? Will Apple include another biometric option on future phones like competing phones have had for years?
Did sticking with 5W battery chargers for 10 years prove trendworthy?
Late to 5G and scrambling to homebrew a 5G modem. They missed that particular puck altogether.
Most of the iOS 14 tentpole features are heavily influenced by Android.
Probably the most common email activity over the last 10 years has involved attachments. For far too long, Apple users couldn't even download an attachment to their phones.
Apple misses lots of pucks or skates to where it isn't too, but for some reason you aren't seeing it. If I'm wrong about that, please give some examples of where you believe Apple screwed up. Or do you think they don't exist?
As it stands today, Apple is simply a CE company. Microsoft can be considered that too but is also far, far more. It has its tentacles in many things and pretty forward thinking too (cloud, undersea optical cabling etc). The foundations of the future (or present, as we stand now because they have already deployed solutions). Apple hasn't. Those pucks again.
As a soundbite, what you say looks nice but scratch the surface and and different reality appears. It's like 'it just works'. It may sound nice but there are a ton of caveats to that.
Yes, we all saw the monopolistic wrongs of the past and they got whacked for it. We laughed at Zune too. They have made their fair share of mistakes. Everybody has! Apple included.
I could reel off a whole series of strategic errors Apple has made. There are pucks Apple apparently doesn't know exist.
Either way, competition can only be a good thing for consumers. Everyone should be happy about more choice. We should celebrate that.
Geez you're really digging low and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses why Apple isn't the innovator they are. None of those are pucks not even a peppermint patty.
NONE of those "features" are even in the same league of the impact Apple's M1 chips will make.
Seriously, upping the wattage of a charger is innovative to you? This is like praising a scooter manufacturer for for creating a way for the wheels to squeak less while ignoring the inventor of the scooter altogether.
There are plenty, but a good and recent example is HoloLens 2 with Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics 365. Of course, Apple doesn't compete in the cloud computing or commercial augmented reality market, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of the audience here hasn't the slightest idea these groundbreaking technologies even exist.
In all fairness, I don't think there is really anything Microsoft is doing that is particularly ground breaking here. Most major tech companies are doing a lot of internal research with AR/VR and Hololens is barely more than a tech demo. It's not something everyone is using. Azure is another cloud service like AWS and Google's Cloud Platform. Even iCloud does much of the same, but it's for Apple's customers only.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
It’s a great tome to be an Apple enthusiast. Like Hockey great Wayne Gretzky Apple skates to where the puck will be instead of where’s it’s at. And it remains funnier than hell to watch Apple do something, get mocked by the competition, declared DOA by the trolls under the AI bridge, and see the competition and the critics follow suit.
I'm not seeing what you're saying here. Surely, it's a mix and Apple gets it wrong as much as anyone else too. As for mocking. It's the same, everybody gets mocked.
Do you think the new Max case will set an industry trend?
Did FaceID set a trend? Was relying on ONE biometric a wise idea? Will Apple include another biometric option on future phones like competing phones have had for years?
Did sticking with 5W battery chargers for 10 years prove trendworthy?
Late to 5G and scrambling to homebrew a 5G modem. They missed that particular puck altogether.
Most of the iOS 14 tentpole features are heavily influenced by Android.
Probably the most common email activity over the last 10 years has involved attachments. For far too long, Apple users couldn't even download an attachment to their phones.
Apple misses lots of pucks or skates to where it isn't too, but for some reason you aren't seeing it. If I'm wrong about that, please give some examples of where you believe Apple screwed up. Or do you think they don't exist?
As it stands today, Apple is simply a CE company. Microsoft can be considered that too but is also far, far more. It has its tentacles in many things and pretty forward thinking too (cloud, undersea optical cabling etc). The foundations of the future (or present, as we stand now because they have already deployed solutions). Apple hasn't. Those pucks again.
As a soundbite, what you say looks nice but scratch the surface and and different reality appears. It's like 'it just works'. It may sound nice but there are a ton of caveats to that.
Yes, we all saw the monopolistic wrongs of the past and they got whacked for it. We laughed at Zune too. They have made their fair share of mistakes. Everybody has! Apple included.
I could reel off a whole series of strategic errors Apple has made. There are pucks Apple apparently doesn't know exist.
Either way, competition can only be a good thing for consumers. Everyone should be happy about more choice. We should celebrate that.
Geez you're really digging low and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses why Apple isn't the innovator they are. None of those are pucks not even a peppermint patty.
NONE of those "features" are even in the same league of the impact Apple's M1 chips will make.
Seriously, upping the wattage of a charger is innovative to you? This is like praising a scooter manufacturer for for creating a way for the wheels to squeak less while ignoring the inventor of the scooter altogether.
That's it? That's all you have?
What does your second paragraph mean? Please explain.
Upping wattage? Nope! It's far more than that.
Take a look at the market. Take a look at charging from every single angle. The chemistry. The sensors. The electronics. The chargers. Hey, how about the user experience too!
There are plenty, but a good and recent example is HoloLens 2 with Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics 365. Of course, Apple doesn't compete in the cloud computing or commercial augmented reality market, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of the audience here hasn't the slightest idea these groundbreaking technologies even exist.
In all fairness, I don't think there is really anything Microsoft is doing that is particularly ground breaking here. Most major tech companies are doing a lot of internal research with AR/VR and Hololens is barely more than a tech demo. It's not something everyone is using. Azure is another cloud service like AWS and Google's Cloud Platform. Even iCloud does much of the same, but it's for Apple's customers only.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. But it's clear that the innovation MS developed with Kinect and Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy (or as you said, knockoff). So in this case, among other examples, Apple copied MS. And I don't criticize Apple for copying MS. I have a Surface Pro, and I have experienced the benefits of Windows Hello, and I love to have the same system in my iPhone. At the same time, I miss the same experience in my MBP, while MS already have Windows Hello in all of their devices.
It looks like Hololens is useful enough for Toyora and MB USA to be in a production environment. And like I posted before, I don't think that something has to be commonly used to be considered innovative, don't you think?
I think you're missing the point. Lots of companies have been developing AR/VR solutions. Hololens is Microsoft's implementation. While it's good to see Microsoft in the game with this sort of thing, you haven't exactly made the case about what is so innovative about their approach. Very few use it. It's more of an interesting conversation piece than anything else. That's to say there is anything wrong with it, it's just not that unique, innovative or interesting really.
Thank for clarifying the PixelSense name. And yes, I agree that FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense, same as it happens with Windows Hello. Third, the technology MS developed with PrimeSense was first used in the Xbox 360 with the Kinect. As you said, it was used for motion and gestures detection. But it looks like you don't know that the Kinect authenticated users in the Xbox,
<removed links>
MS improved the technology and integrated it 5 years ago in the Surface Pro 4, and improve it in modern devices. So now Apple acquires PrimeSense to do what MS did many years ago with the Xbox and the Surface. IMO, this is an example of Apple copying MS. BTW, how do you know it is less sophisticated and less secure than Windows Hello? How do you even measure which one is more secure?
Yes, I'm aware that Kinect can do authentication. However, let's be clear, there are various levels of sophistication and security with facial recognition type systems. On one end, we had the original Android Face Unlock which just used basic face recognition algorithms... and of course, could be fooled with a simple photograph. Windows Hello is indeed a step above that as it relies in infrared cameras and is more difficult to spoof.. though it can still be spoofed with a picture. Example... https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16804992/microsoft-windows-10-windows-hello-bypass-security Then, there is FaceID which does true 3D imaging and even checks for eye contact, etc. This too can eventually be spoofed with a mannequin and face recognition training, but as you can see, it's much more difficult to spoof. Everything is relative.
Finally, I still don't see how Microsoft using off the shelf technology and then Apple acquiring the company that created that technology is an example of Apple copying MS. Neither company developed that specific tech. Microsoft just used what existed elsewhere. Apple integrated that one component into a much more sophisticated piece of technology. As such, I have difficulty seeing how your opinion is justified here.
And again, Azure as a cloud service maybe is not unique, but there is a lot of innovation in the development of those datacenters. Also the technology behind Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics Remote Assist is very impressive and innovative. Just look at the links.
Yes, I agree that any implementation of a cloud service will require some level of innovation and distinction from alternatives. As someone who uses Azure professionally, I agree that it is a good service and it is something that has effectively saved Microsoft as a company. However, I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces. Microsoft's biggest hook in this space is AAD as enterprises insist on being dependent on AD. Azure Active Directory alone is the hook they needed to drive the rest of their cloud based services and business. Good move Microsoft!
It looks like Hololens is useful enough for Toyora and MB USA to be in a production environment. And like I posted before, I don't think that something has to be commonly used to be considered innovative, don't you think?
I think you're missing the point. Lots of companies have been developing AR/VR solutions. Hololens is Microsoft's implementation. While it's good to see Microsoft in the game with this sort of thing, you haven't exactly made the case about what is so innovative about their approach. Very few use it. It's more of an interesting conversation piece than anything else. That's to say there is anything wrong with it, it's just not that unique, innovative or interesting really.
Also, why does it matter that few people use it? What relation does it have with innovation? For example, the Xbox Adaptive Controller is used by very few gamers. But at the end, there is a lot of innovation behind it, and it impacts a very special group of people. Would you ignore the innovations in this controller because few people use it? Xbox Adaptive Controller | Xbox
Yes, I'm aware that Kinect can do authentication. However, let's be clear, there are various levels of sophistication and security with facial recognition type systems. On one end, we had the original Android Face Unlock which just used basic face recognition algorithms... and of course, could be fooled with a simple photograph. Windows Hello is indeed a step above that as it relies in infrared cameras and is more difficult to spoof.. though it can still be spoofed with a picture. Example... https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16804992/microsoft-windows-10-windows-hello-bypass-security Then, there is FaceID which does true 3D imaging and even checks for eye contact, etc. This too can eventually be spoofed with a mannequin and face recognition training, but as you can see, it's much more difficult to spoof. Everything is relative.
Finally, I still don't see how Microsoft using off the shelf technology and then Apple acquiring the company that created that technology is an example of Apple copying MS. Neither company developed that specific tech. Microsoft just used what existed elsewhere. Apple integrated that one component into a much more sophisticated piece of technology. As such, I have difficulty seeing how your opinion is justified here.
The same article you posted explains that the spoof bug was fixed in an update. And like I posted before, it's hard make a 1:1 comparison on which one is harder to break. If you ask me, both offer enough security for most users.
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
Yes, I agree that any implementation of a cloud service will require some level of innovation and distinction from alternatives. As someone who uses Azure professionally, I agree that it is a good service and it is something that has effectively saved Microsoft as a company. However, I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces. Microsoft's biggest hook in this space is AAD as enterprises insist on being dependent on AD. Azure Active Directory alone is the hook they needed to drive the rest of their cloud based services and business. Good move Microsoft!
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right? But like you said, "there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces."
BTW, my post had no mention of Azure as cloud service or AAD. My previous post mention two specific services that are very innovative. Go back to my previous message, so you can read about them.
As typical, Microsoft’s resident corporate shill is hard at work earning his keep. Perhaps a better response is to block his fucking ass and ignore him, at least then he wouldn’t appear in so many posts that aren’t his!
Stop giving him so much fucking attention, it’s beneath the dignity of this forum.
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
LOL... no. Face ID > Windows Hello > Android Face Unlock. Technically, all three of these technologies perform the same generic function. How they perform that function and how secure they are is very different. Using your logic, if you feel that Face ID is a copy of Windows Hello, then you must agree that Windows Hello is a copy of Android Face Unlock.... which is a copy of face recognition from iPhoto from many years ago... lol.
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right? But like you said, "there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces."
If you want to continue down that path, you might as well mention the Newton which in turn invalidates the point you are trying to make.
There are plenty, but a good and recent example is HoloLens 2 with Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics 365. Of course, Apple doesn't compete in the cloud computing or commercial augmented reality market, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of the audience here hasn't the slightest idea these groundbreaking technologies even exist.
In all fairness, I don't think there is really anything Microsoft is doing that is particularly ground breaking here. Most major tech companies are doing a lot of internal research with AR/VR and Hololens is barely more than a tech demo. It's not something everyone is using. Azure is another cloud service like AWS and Google's Cloud Platform. Even iCloud does much of the same, but it's for Apple's customers only.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. But it's clear that the innovation MS developed with Kinect and Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy (or as you said, knockoff). So in this case, among other examples, Apple copied MS. And I don't criticize Apple for copying MS. I have a Surface Pro, and I have experienced the benefits of Windows Hello, and I love to have the same system in my iPhone. At the same time, I miss the same experience in my MBP, while MS already have Windows Hello in all of their devices.
You're replying to the person who knows more about Kinect than anyone on this entire forum. I've followed Primesense in real time for over a decade.
Since you wanna be a dic* about it let me educate you.
MS BOUGHT Primesense after seeing the Zcam(which was already finished) to compete with the Nintendo Wii and jump into the whole motion-control frenzy. ZCam was originally developed for the Nintendo Wii and they pitched it to Nintendo. Microsoft didn't change much except maybe the outer design and rebranded it Project Natal and then Kinect. Apple didn't "have to buy Primesense to copy MS" what a stupid, stupid assumption. Microsoft didn't want Primesense anymore since the Kinect failed. Why THE HELL would MS sell Primesense because Apple "needed to copy it". What a stupid assumption. I mean, who does this? Apple bought it to enhance their products as they always do and the company was FOR SALE. Plain and simple.
No FaceID isn't a Kinect knockoff. I mean how stupid can one be to think that? That's like saying a toaster is a knockoff of a grill.
Kinect was a motion control gaming device developed by Primesense for Nintendo.
FaceID is an authentication feature developed by Apple for iPhone.
It looks like Hololens is useful enough for Toyora and MB USA to be in a production environment. And like I posted before, I don't think that something has to be commonly used to be considered innovative, don't you think?
I think you're missing the point. Lots of companies have been developing AR/VR solutions. Hololens is Microsoft's implementation. While it's good to see Microsoft in the game with this sort of thing, you haven't exactly made the case about what is so innovative about their approach. Very few use it. It's more of an interesting conversation piece than anything else. That's to say there is anything wrong with it, it's just not that unique, innovative or interesting really.
Also, why does it matter that few people use it? What relation does it have with innovation? For example, the Xbox Adaptive Controller is used by very few gamers. But at the end, there is a lot of innovation behind it, and it impacts a very special group of people. Would you ignore the innovations in this controller because few people use it? Xbox Adaptive Controller | Xbox
Yes, I'm aware that Kinect can do authentication. However, let's be clear, there are various levels of sophistication and security with facial recognition type systems. On one end, we had the original Android Face Unlock which just used basic face recognition algorithms... and of course, could be fooled with a simple photograph. Windows Hello is indeed a step above that as it relies in infrared cameras and is more difficult to spoof.. though it can still be spoofed with a picture. Example... https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16804992/microsoft-windows-10-windows-hello-bypass-security Then, there is FaceID which does true 3D imaging and even checks for eye contact, etc. This too can eventually be spoofed with a mannequin and face recognition training, but as you can see, it's much more difficult to spoof. Everything is relative.
Finally, I still don't see how Microsoft using off the shelf technology and then Apple acquiring the company that created that technology is an example of Apple copying MS. Neither company developed that specific tech. Microsoft just used what existed elsewhere. Apple integrated that one component into a much more sophisticated piece of technology. As such, I have difficulty seeing how your opinion is justified here.
The same article you posted explains that the spoof bug was fixed in an update. And like I posted before, it's hard make a 1:1 comparison on which one is harder to break. If you ask me, both offer enough security for most users.
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
Yes, I agree that any implementation of a cloud service will require some level of innovation and distinction from alternatives. As someone who uses Azure professionally, I agree that it is a good service and it is something that has effectively saved Microsoft as a company. However, I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces. Microsoft's biggest hook in this space is AAD as enterprises insist on being dependent on AD. Azure Active Directory alone is the hook they needed to drive the rest of their cloud based services and business. Good move Microsoft!
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right? But like you said, "there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces."
BTW, my post had no mention of Azure as cloud service or AAD. My previous post mention two specific services that are very innovative. Go back to my previous message, so you can read about them.
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right?
Don't forget the iPod Watch from 2010. Also who did Apple have to copy to create iTunes, AirPods, Airpods Max etc. MS makes literal knockoffs.
Apple invented the iPhone and iPad. Consider that convo done.
"My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator. "
MS wasn't a pioneer in anything buddy! The Kinect was already finished when MS acquired Primesense. Do you not understand that Primesense is a different company than MS? Apple acquired Primesense not Microsoft!!
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
LOL... no. Face ID > Windows Hello > Android Face Unlock. Technically, all three of these technologies perform the same generic function. How they perform that function and how secure they are is very different. Using your logic, if you feel that Face ID is a copy of Windows Hello, then you must agree that Windows Hello is a copy of Android Face Unlock.... which is a copy of face recognition from iPhoto from many years ago... lol.
Like I posted before, I haven't seen a 1:1 comparison of Face ID vs Windows Hello to show who is better. IMO, both are very secure, and neither is perfect, like you mentioned in your previous comment. And you have the wrong order. Remember that MS already had the Windows Hello technology in the Kinect, so it was ahead of both Android and Apple. And I don't see how Apple Photo app is part of this conversation, since it is not used as an authentication system.
If you want to continue down that path, you might as well mention the Newton which in turn invalidates the point you are trying to make.
Remember when you said about Azure "I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces." So I suppose that if we expand your POV to Apple, it shows they are a follower, considering the examples I gave. I don't agree with that, but I respect your opinion.
There are plenty, but a good and recent example is HoloLens 2 with Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics 365. Of course, Apple doesn't compete in the cloud computing or commercial augmented reality market, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of the audience here hasn't the slightest idea these groundbreaking technologies even exist.
In all fairness, I don't think there is really anything Microsoft is doing that is particularly ground breaking here. Most major tech companies are doing a lot of internal research with AR/VR and Hololens is barely more than a tech demo. It's not something everyone is using. Azure is another cloud service like AWS and Google's Cloud Platform. Even iCloud does much of the same, but it's for Apple's customers only.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. But it's clear that the innovation MS developed with Kinect and Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy (or as you said, knockoff). So in this case, among other examples, Apple copied MS. And I don't criticize Apple for copying MS. I have a Surface Pro, and I have experienced the benefits of Windows Hello, and I love to have the same system in my iPhone. At the same time, I miss the same experience in my MBP, while MS already have Windows Hello in all of their devices.
You're replying to the person who knows more about Kinect than anyone on this entire forum. I've followed Primesense in real time for over a decade.
Since you wanna be a dic* about it let me educate you.
MS BOUGHT Primesense after seeing the Zcam(which was already finished) to compete with the Nintendo Wii and jump into the whole motion-control frenzy. ZCam was originally developed for the Nintendo Wii and they pitched it to Nintendo. Microsoft didn't change much except maybe the outer design and rebranded it Project Natal and then Kinect. Apple didn't "have to buy Primesense to copy MS" what a stupid, stupid assumption. Microsoft didn't want Primesense anymore since the Kinect failed. Why THE HELL would MS sell Primesense because Apple "needed to copy it". What a stupid assumption. I mean, who does this? Apple bought it to enhance their products as they always do and the company was FOR SALE. Plain and simple.
No FaceID isn't a Kinect knockoff. I mean how stupid can one be to think that? That's like saying a toaster is a knockoff of a grill.
Kinect was a motion control gaming device developed by Primesense for Nintendo.
FaceID is an authentication feature developed by Apple for iPhone.
Maybe I'm wrong, but MS never bought PrimeSense. I suppose you had to know that, considering you "are the person who knows more about Kinect than anyone on this entire forum and followed PrimeSense in real time for over a decade". Apple was the one who bought PrimeSense. MS just licensed the design and chip. At least that was I found in Google, but maybe I miss something. BTW, maybe it's true that Apple didn't "needed to buy" but they did, and it looks like it was to design Face ID.
And although Kinect was a motion gaming controller, it also authenticated users. You can see the videos in my previous posts. Later MS had Windows Hello in the Surface Pro 4. So I don't think that FaceID is a Kinect knockoff, but a Windows Hello knockoff. At least is a good one. So it looks like Apple is not the only one that innovates, and MS is not the only one that copies and makes knockoffs.
BTW, you know about Memoji facial expressions? Who do you think had it before Apple?... https://youtu.be/w7ljqN4cd2E
There are plenty, but a good and recent example is HoloLens 2 with Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics 365. Of course, Apple doesn't compete in the cloud computing or commercial augmented reality market, so I wouldn't be surprised if most of the audience here hasn't the slightest idea these groundbreaking technologies even exist.
In all fairness, I don't think there is really anything Microsoft is doing that is particularly ground breaking here. Most major tech companies are doing a lot of internal research with AR/VR and Hololens is barely more than a tech demo. It's not something everyone is using. Azure is another cloud service like AWS and Google's Cloud Platform. Even iCloud does much of the same, but it's for Apple's customers only.
Also is interesting that Apple acquired PixelSense to create FaceID, the same company that help MS create Kinect, Windows Hello and the technology behind Hololens. So I suppose MS innovation was good enough for Apple to copy it.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. But it's clear that the innovation MS developed with Kinect and Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy (or as you said, knockoff). So in this case, among other examples, Apple copied MS. And I don't criticize Apple for copying MS. I have a Surface Pro, and I have experienced the benefits of Windows Hello, and I love to have the same system in my iPhone. At the same time, I miss the same experience in my MBP, while MS already have Windows Hello in all of their devices.
You're replying to the person who knows more about Kinect than anyone on this entire forum. I've followed Primesense in real time for over a decade.
Since you wanna be a dic* about it let me educate you.
MS BOUGHT Primesense after seeing the Zcam
Since Microsoft did not buy Primsense I think you need to follow Primesense in better than "real time" in future.
It looks like Hololens is useful enough for Toyora and MB USA to be in a production environment. And like I posted before, I don't think that something has to be commonly used to be considered innovative, don't you think?
I think you're missing the point. Lots of companies have been developing AR/VR solutions. Hololens is Microsoft's implementation. While it's good to see Microsoft in the game with this sort of thing, you haven't exactly made the case about what is so innovative about their approach. Very few use it. It's more of an interesting conversation piece than anything else. That's to say there is anything wrong with it, it's just not that unique, innovative or interesting really.
Also, why does it matter that few people use it? What relation does it have with innovation? For example, the Xbox Adaptive Controller is used by very few gamers. But at the end, there is a lot of innovation behind it, and it impacts a very special group of people. Would you ignore the innovations in this controller because few people use it? Xbox Adaptive Controller | Xbox
Yes, I'm aware that Kinect can do authentication. However, let's be clear, there are various levels of sophistication and security with facial recognition type systems. On one end, we had the original Android Face Unlock which just used basic face recognition algorithms... and of course, could be fooled with a simple photograph. Windows Hello is indeed a step above that as it relies in infrared cameras and is more difficult to spoof.. though it can still be spoofed with a picture. Example... https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16804992/microsoft-windows-10-windows-hello-bypass-security Then, there is FaceID which does true 3D imaging and even checks for eye contact, etc. This too can eventually be spoofed with a mannequin and face recognition training, but as you can see, it's much more difficult to spoof. Everything is relative.
Finally, I still don't see how Microsoft using off the shelf technology and then Apple acquiring the company that created that technology is an example of Apple copying MS. Neither company developed that specific tech. Microsoft just used what existed elsewhere. Apple integrated that one component into a much more sophisticated piece of technology. As such, I have difficulty seeing how your opinion is justified here.
The same article you posted explains that the spoof bug was fixed in an update. And like I posted before, it's hard make a 1:1 comparison on which one is harder to break. If you ask me, both offer enough security for most users.
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
Yes, I agree that any implementation of a cloud service will require some level of innovation and distinction from alternatives. As someone who uses Azure professionally, I agree that it is a good service and it is something that has effectively saved Microsoft as a company. However, I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces. Microsoft's biggest hook in this space is AAD as enterprises insist on being dependent on AD. Azure Active Directory alone is the hook they needed to drive the rest of their cloud based services and business. Good move Microsoft!
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right? But like you said, "there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces."
BTW, my post had no mention of Azure as cloud service or AAD. My previous post mention two specific services that are very innovative. Go back to my previous message, so you can read about them.
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right?
Don't forget the iPod Watch from 2010. Also who did Apple have to copy to create iTunes, AirPods, Airpods Max etc. MS makes literal knockoffs.
Apple invented the iPhone and iPad. Consider that convo done.
IMO, yes in many cases Apple is a follower, same as many companies. But I don't care too much for that when it's a good product or service. That's the reason most of my devices and services I use are from MS and Apple.
Also you said that MS makes literal knockoffs, but Apple too. Nobody is perfect.
It’s a great tome to be an Apple enthusiast. Like Hockey great Wayne Gretzky Apple skates to where the puck will be instead of where’s it’s at. And it remains funnier than hell to watch Apple do something, get mocked by the competition, declared DOA by the trolls under the AI bridge, and see the competition and the critics follow suit.
I'm not seeing what you're saying here. Surely, it's a mix and Apple gets it wrong as much as anyone else too. As for mocking. It's the same, everybody gets mocked.
Do you think the new Max case will set an industry trend?
Did FaceID set a trend? Was relying on ONE biometric a wise idea? Will Apple include another biometric option on future phones like competing phones have had for years?
Did sticking with 5W battery chargers for 10 years prove trendworthy?
Late to 5G and scrambling to homebrew a 5G modem. They missed that particular puck altogether.
Most of the iOS 14 tentpole features are heavily influenced by Android.
Probably the most common email activity over the last 10 years has involved attachments. For far too long, Apple users couldn't even download an attachment to their phones.
Apple misses lots of pucks or skates to where it isn't too, but for some reason you aren't seeing it. If I'm wrong about that, please give some examples of where you believe Apple screwed up. Or do you think they don't exist?
As it stands today, Apple is simply a CE company. Microsoft can be considered that too but is also far, far more. It has its tentacles in many things and pretty forward thinking too (cloud, undersea optical cabling etc). The foundations of the future (or present, as we stand now because they have already deployed solutions). Apple hasn't. Those pucks again.
As a soundbite, what you say looks nice but scratch the surface and and different reality appears. It's like 'it just works'. It may sound nice but there are a ton of caveats to that.
Yes, we all saw the monopolistic wrongs of the past and they got whacked for it. We laughed at Zune too. They have made their fair share of mistakes. Everybody has! Apple included.
I could reel off a whole series of strategic errors Apple has made. There are pucks Apple apparently doesn't know exist.
Either way, competition can only be a good thing for consumers. Everyone should be happy about more choice. We should celebrate that.
Geez you're really digging low and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses why Apple isn't the innovator they are. None of those are pucks not even a peppermint patty.
NONE of those "features" are even in the same league of the impact Apple's M1 chips will make.
Seriously, upping the wattage of a charger is innovative to you? This is like praising a scooter manufacturer for for creating a way for the wheels to squeak less while ignoring the inventor of the scooter altogether.
That's it? That's all you have?
What does your second paragraph mean? Please explain.
Upping wattage? Nope! It's far more than that.
Take a look at the market. Take a look at charging from every single angle. The chemistry. The sensors. The electronics. The chargers. Hey, how about the user experience too!
If you're gonna nitpick then every iPhone feature is a new "innovation".
My goalposts are world-changing products and features like iPhone, iTunes, ECG and the App Store.
Comments
Glad someone else remembers it. Sammy has wiped that quote from the face of the internet. Like how they've removed their ads mocking Apple for something they later copied themselves.
Samsung
We Lead By Following [Apple]
And they also win by losing.
Also, you seem to have a twisted sense of logic. For starters, the company you are referring to is called "PrimeSense", not "PixelSense". Further, FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense. Finally, it wasn't Microsoft's technology to begin with, so explain how this would be an example of Apple copying Microsoft. The technology isn't even used for the same thing. PrimeSense is used to sense motions and gestures, not for authentication. Further, Windows Hello is definitely less sophisticated and secure, so no, this isn't an example of Apple copying Microsoft.
I'm fully aware of what Azure is and I use it professionally as well. Microsoft is doing well here, it's just not something unique to them.
Thank for clarifying the PixelSense name. And yes, I agree that FaceID is MUCH more than the technology used in PrimeSense, same as it happens with Windows Hello. Third, the technology MS developed with PrimeSense was first used in the Xbox 360 with the Kinect. As you said, it was used for motion and gestures detection. But it looks like you don't know that the Kinect authenticated users in the Xbox,
MS improved the technology and integrated it 5 years ago in the Surface Pro 4, and improve it in modern devices. So now Apple acquires PrimeSense to do what MS did many years ago with the Xbox and the Surface. IMO, this is an example of Apple copying MS. BTW, how do you know it is less sophisticated and less secure than Windows Hello? How do you even measure which one is more secure?
And again, Azure as a cloud service maybe is not unique, but there is a lot of innovation in the development of those datacenters. Also the technology behind Azure Remote Rendering and Dynamics Remote Assist is very impressive and innovative. Just look at the links.
Geez you're really digging low and scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses why Apple isn't the innovator they are. None of those are pucks not even a peppermint patty.
NONE of those "features" are even in the same league of the impact Apple's M1 chips will make.
Seriously, upping the wattage of a charger is innovative to you? This is like praising a scooter manufacturer for for creating a way for the wheels to squeak less while ignoring the inventor of the scooter altogether.
That was PrimeSense and Apple had to engineer the technology into that tiny little notch. If they simply "copied" it there would be a huge Kinect attached to the top of iPhone and they would have done it without acquiring PrimeSense to create something NEW.
Notice how different and how much smaller this is by comparison.
Plus acquiring a company is not the same as copying. Copying an invention is copying, not acquiring a company to re-purpose it's patents, tech and talent into something new. I always find it funny how the rules change when criticizing Apple.
What does your second paragraph mean? Please explain.
Upping wattage? Nope! It's far more than that.
Take a look at the market. Take a look at charging from every single angle. The chemistry. The sensors. The electronics. The chargers. Hey, how about the user experience too!
Yes, I'm aware that Kinect can do authentication. However, let's be clear, there are various levels of sophistication and security with facial recognition type systems. On one end, we had the original Android Face Unlock which just used basic face recognition algorithms... and of course, could be fooled with a simple photograph. Windows Hello is indeed a step above that as it relies in infrared cameras and is more difficult to spoof.. though it can still be spoofed with a picture. Example...
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16804992/microsoft-windows-10-windows-hello-bypass-security
Then, there is FaceID which does true 3D imaging and even checks for eye contact, etc. This too can eventually be spoofed with a mannequin and face recognition training, but as you can see, it's much more difficult to spoof. Everything is relative.
Finally, I still don't see how Microsoft using off the shelf technology and then Apple acquiring the company that created that technology is an example of Apple copying MS. Neither company developed that specific tech. Microsoft just used what existed elsewhere. Apple integrated that one component into a much more sophisticated piece of technology. As such, I have difficulty seeing how your opinion is justified here.
Yes, I agree that any implementation of a cloud service will require some level of innovation and distinction from alternatives. As someone who uses Azure professionally, I agree that it is a good service and it is something that has effectively saved Microsoft as a company. However, I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces. Microsoft's biggest hook in this space is AAD as enterprises insist on being dependent on AD. Azure Active Directory alone is the hook they needed to drive the rest of their cloud based services and business. Good move Microsoft!
Second version of HoloLens HPU will incorporate AI coprocessor for implementing DNNs - Microsoft Research
IMO, that very innovative too, don't you think?
Also, why does it matter that few people use it? What relation does it have with innovation? For example, the Xbox Adaptive Controller is used by very few gamers. But at the end, there is a lot of innovation behind it, and it impacts a very special group of people. Would you ignore the innovations in this controller because few people use it?
Xbox Adaptive Controller | Xbox
The same article you posted explains that the spoof bug was fixed in an update. And like I posted before, it's hard make a 1:1 comparison on which one is harder to break. If you ask me, both offer enough security for most users.
Second, I didn't say I didn't say that acquiring a company is copying. My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator.
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right? But like you said, "there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces."
BTW, my post had no mention of Azure as cloud service or AAD. My previous post mention two specific services that are very innovative. Go back to my previous message, so you can read about them.
Stop giving him so much fucking attention, it’s beneath the dignity of this forum.
If you want to continue down that path, you might as well mention the Newton which in turn invalidates the point you are trying to make.
You're replying to the person who knows more about Kinect than anyone on this entire forum. I've followed Primesense in real time for over a decade.
Since you wanna be a dic* about it let me educate you.
MS BOUGHT Primesense after seeing the Zcam(which was already finished) to compete with the Nintendo Wii and jump into the whole motion-control frenzy. ZCam was originally developed for the Nintendo Wii and they pitched it to Nintendo. Microsoft didn't change much except maybe the outer design and rebranded it Project Natal and then Kinect. Apple didn't "have to buy Primesense to copy MS" what a stupid, stupid assumption. Microsoft didn't want Primesense anymore since the Kinect failed. Why THE HELL would MS sell Primesense because Apple "needed to copy it". What a stupid assumption. I mean, who does this? Apple bought it to enhance their products as they always do and the company was FOR SALE. Plain and simple.
No FaceID isn't a Kinect knockoff. I mean how stupid can one be to think that? That's like saying a toaster is a knockoff of a grill.
Kinect was a motion control gaming device developed by Primesense for Nintendo.
FaceID is an authentication feature developed by Apple for iPhone.
Based in your definition, Apple is a follower because we already had in the market smartphones, smart speakers, smartwatchs, gaming, music and movie services, headphones and tablets, right?
Don't forget the iPod Watch from 2010. Also who did Apple have to copy to create iTunes, AirPods, Airpods Max etc. MS makes literal knockoffs.
Apple invented the iPhone and iPad. Consider that convo done.
"My point is that Windows Hello was so good that Apple had to acquire the same company to create a Windows Hello / Kinect copy. It's obvious that Apple couldn't make an exactly copy what MS already did, considering there has to be a lot of patents. Looks like in this case, Apple was the follower while MS was the pioneer / innovator. "
MS wasn't a pioneer in anything buddy! The Kinect was already finished when MS acquired Primesense. Do you not understand that Primesense is a different company than MS? Apple acquired Primesense not Microsoft!!
@danvm
Remember when you said about Azure "I wouldn't say Microsoft is a pioneer in this space either. They are a follower in this market to Google and even Amazon. There's nothing really wrong with that, but it does illustrate how they continue to be a follower rather than a leader in such spaces." So I suppose that if we expand your POV to Apple, it shows they are a follower, considering the examples I gave. I don't agree with that, but I respect your opinion.
BTW, maybe it's true that Apple didn't "needed to buy" but they did, and it looks like it was to design Face ID.
The iPhone X’s notch is basically a Kinect - The Verge
Microsoft kills Kinect just as Apple dives into facial recognition with iPhone X Face ID | AppleInsider
Face, face, face! Apple, TrueDepth and a nose-driven iPhone X game • The Register
And although Kinect was a motion gaming controller, it also authenticated users. You can see the videos in my previous posts. Later MS had Windows Hello in the Surface Pro 4. So I don't think that FaceID is a Kinect knockoff, but a Windows Hello knockoff. At least is a good one. So it looks like Apple is not the only one that innovates, and MS is not the only one that copies and makes knockoffs.
BTW, you know about Memoji facial expressions? Who do you think had it before Apple?...
https://youtu.be/w7ljqN4cd2E
Also you said that MS makes literal knockoffs, but Apple too. Nobody is perfect.
If you're gonna nitpick then every iPhone feature is a new "innovation".
My goalposts are world-changing products and features like iPhone, iTunes, ECG and the App Store.