And this differentiates this thread from every other thread in Future Hardware in what way, exactly? </strong><hr></blockquote>
My thoughts exactly. The reason why I come to AI is to hear this kind of unfounded stuff (and to put in my 2 cents). Kind of an X-files meets OSX thing. If you don't like reading the rumor, then don't read it.
You would have thought that I had proclaimed the world is flat or something with some of these people's reactions to this thread.
Annnnnyway,.. can anyone point to a link about Apple having a buy out opportunity regarding Motorola's technologies? I hear this referenced a lot but have never seen any documentation on it. (or evidence as some would call it <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
If this is anywhere near the truth, (IF), it would be jsut liek ole Stevie to wait until 1-2 days after the financial quarterly reports to blow a load of cash on something... and hopefully pertaining to Future hardware...
MSKR
PS I'm not a journalist so don't treat my posts as such. Sheesh.
First, I didn't say PDA's are dead. I said Steve dissed them publically, and if you watch the keynote it's pretty clear that he considers them old news. If you see the first QT6 demo and MWNY, it's clear that he's latched onto next-gen cellphones as the next big thing. His opinion matters more than anyone else's when Apple determines where a huge chunk of its money gets targeted.
Second, I should have said that Apple is buying out Mot's interest in AIM, not PPC. They would not be buying fabs, or Mot SPS, or Motorola itself, nor would they be buying AltiVec.
They would, however, be formally ending their alliance with Motorola. Mot would switch to Book E, the PPC-compatible standard they hammered out with IBM, pick up a bunch of badly needed cash, and concentrate entirely on their own interests. Apple would (one hopes) pick up the Mot engineers who worked on the Apple-targetted PPCs and non-exclusive rights to the current and in-process designs, including AltiVec. That's it.
The real prize would be Mot CPU engineers. Whatever its other problems, Mot has designed one flat-out gorgeous chip after another for decades. If Apple coaxes them away to continue working on Mac processors at Apple, Apple suddenly has a lot of PPC cred and experience onboard which is no longer stifled by Mot management, strapped by Mot insolvency, and frustrated by Mot fabs.
This newly unified team works with IBM engineers on new designs targeted for fabrication at IBM's new facility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some money went to IBM, since corporations often express interest by investing in each other (witness the $100 million investment in Samsung, and the investment in Earthlink).
Putting my administrator hat on for a moment: This thread is of course pure speculation based around an unproven rumor (if it was proven it wouldn't be a rumor, would it?). This is obvious to all concerned. If you don't find it interesting, don't contribute. Thanks.
Sure: It's less than one tenth of one percent of the money that the Pentagon has admitted to losing track of over the years.
If I'm right, it's not a buyout in the way the software firms were. It's a huge transaction, and one that the SEC and other agencies will at least look at, but they'd just be exercizing an option in a contract that both parties agreed to years ago, and investing a chunk in another company to cement a new alliance.
Nothing radical there.
What is radical, and what makes me wonder about this, is Apple blowing half of their stash on anything. That would place the company in a riskier position financially (and, certainly, on the stock market), so the payoff would have to be a big move that boosted revenue. Like Ford pouring its last $3 billion into the Taurus and Sable in the '80s.
[quote] Owning SGI is the kiss of death. SGI hasn't done anything right in years. <hr></blockquote>
SGI make workstations that still make any pc or mac system look like my original Sinclair ZX80, with graphics performance to make you cry, and which still rule the roost in industries that you haven't even heard of, with innovations in hpc that make a G4 on a 133 bus with SDRam look as sad as it really is
They developed a still profitable and shockingly powerful range of processors through Mips.
They own the major (profitable) softwares in 3d, both film and television, and product design.
IP and patents that Apple would (should) kill for.
Apple make transparent blue consumer pcs. Kiss of death, yeah right...
So who gives a shit about share price? What do those little wankers in Wall Street and The City know about anything anyway?
<strong>What is radical, and what makes me wonder about this, is Apple blowing half of their stash on anything. That would place the company in a riskier position financially (and, certainly, on the stock market), so the payoff would have to be a big move that boosted revenue. Like Ford pouring its last $3 billion into the Taurus and Sable in the '80s.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what made me think that it ought to be something which would add to Apple's revenue asap and add a large chunk at that.
Now surely Apple wouldn't be buying any company that owns some IP just to start sueing people for royalities?
Hardware would seem the obvious choice, but what kind of hardware compan really makes sense? Motorola? They don't need 2 billion worth of assets from them, imho. Graphics chips company? Too stiff competition in that area I guess. Screen, printer, peripheral business wouldn't make a lot of sense either - if Apple wants they get mass discounts at these shops anyway.
So what's left? Small software shops, but then for 2 billion one would get lots of those! Maybe Apple bought some game software companies to ensure MacOS X ports? Heh.
Why shouldn't MS buy out companies(obvious issues with the federal government aside)? IBM just bought out PWC. Why not buy companies on the cheap right now? MS can't get away with it as easily because they are watched more closely.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is a common microsoft practice in market high and low times. They have just chilled in the last few years because of all the lawsuits. Now that they own the president and a 2-4 pack of senators Im sure they will get both guns blazing asap.
SEC and Wall Street, particularly in the current market climate would be all over this.
Hell, you think Exec's get the eye for selling options... this would be headline news and the tech community would be in a frenzy.
2 or 3 million on a small software company like they have purchased made sense and was a good investment. Those made news.
2 B I L L I O N
Do any of you actually realize how much that is?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you have 4.3 billion, spending 2 billion is fine.
There is no law against a company spending its cash reserves, indeed accountants prefer all cash is turned into assets (go figure).
Of course the SEC or whoever will want to check it out to ensure everything is above board and no monopolistic actions are occurring, but it's perfectly allowed.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for Apple to spend $2 billion on anything CPU related, and wouldn't be surprised if they did.
Apple's future depends on their ability to ship computers that run applications at competitive speeds to the Wintel world, along with Mac OS X's benefits. It appears that Motorola simply does not care about the desktop market, and will not have a competitive CPU for the desktop market in the foreseeable future.
If Apple switched to an x86 CPU, this would anger both developers and customers; which Apple cannot afford to do at this point. Customers have to buy a new round of software updates - again. Developers have to buy new developer tools (at least the ones that use CodeWarrior) and modify their code - again.
It would be in everyone's best interest if Apple were to use a CPU that maintained binary compatibility with existing software. If they have to spend 2 billion to do so, and it will allow Apple to compete once again on the desktop market, I consider it a wise decision.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the original rumour for a second. Something of this magnitude would be known to upper management only, and wouldn't be discussed in public for anyone to overhear. I can hardly imagine Fred and Steve casually discussing this at the local Starbucks while waiting for their Espressos.
If Apple spent 2 Billion on anything be it green cheese or moon pies it would be all over wall street and the share Holders would have been notified. Apple may be able to keep future hardware secret but they could not keep a purchase this big behind closed doors. It didn't happen. This thread is kinda fun but it's more ful of crap than my septic system. And thats saying something.
<strong>I think it is perfectly reasonable for Apple to spend $2 billion on anything CPU related, and wouldn't be surprised if they did.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know...
With the recent price tankage, for $2B, Apple could buy BOTH ATI and nVidia. Combine those two R&D efforts with what Apple already has, squirt up margins, and Apple suddenly has an additional $2.5B in revenue, can ensure that the best video cards hit their products first, and can siphon money out of PC makers.
I don't think that Matrox and the others could compete with that effort, as I think we all agree that Apple knows their sh*t when it comes to graphics and chipsets.
The SEC would sure give it a sideways glance, but thats okay. MSFT would be P-I-S-S-E-D. Apple could hold the xBox as much hostage as MSFT can Office.
I don't believe it (very, very few people would have prior knowledge of a dual acquisition like this), but it's a vision that'll keep me smiling for a few hours...
MASKER could you give us some link or foundation of this rumor to go on. You have given us no evidence that this is even a rumor. Why don't you come up with a link or something now!
Comments
<strong>Moon Pies</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mmm... moon pies...
[quote]Originally posted by O and A:
<strong>no evidence some guy tooling with everyone</strong><hr></blockquote>
And this differentiates this thread from every other thread in Future Hardware in what way, exactly?
<strong>2 billlion??? 2 words:
Moon Pies</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm.... maybe they bought a fleet of Gulf Stream Jets so that the Apple execs can play a game of tag? Hide and go seek?
Regardless, a purchase this big would have been broadcast all across the globe.
Keep moving, people. There's nothing to see here.
<strong>
And this differentiates this thread from every other thread in Future Hardware in what way, exactly?
My thoughts exactly. The reason why I come to AI is to hear this kind of unfounded stuff (and to put in my 2 cents). Kind of an X-files meets OSX thing. If you don't like reading the rumor, then don't read it.
<strong>
Keep moving, people. There's nothing to see here.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hahahaahaaa, that tickled me, only at AI do you find this stuff....
You would have thought that I had proclaimed the world is flat or something with some of these people's reactions to this thread.
Annnnnyway,.. can anyone point to a link about Apple having a buy out opportunity regarding Motorola's technologies? I hear this referenced a lot but have never seen any documentation on it. (or evidence as some would call it <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
If this is anywhere near the truth, (IF), it would be jsut liek ole Stevie to wait until 1-2 days after the financial quarterly reports to blow a load of cash on something... and hopefully pertaining to Future hardware...
MSKR
PS I'm not a journalist so don't treat my posts as such. Sheesh.
First, I didn't say PDA's are dead. I said Steve dissed them publically, and if you watch the keynote it's pretty clear that he considers them old news. If you see the first QT6 demo and MWNY, it's clear that he's latched onto next-gen cellphones as the next big thing. His opinion matters more than anyone else's when Apple determines where a huge chunk of its money gets targeted.
Second, I should have said that Apple is buying out Mot's interest in AIM, not PPC. They would not be buying fabs, or Mot SPS, or Motorola itself, nor would they be buying AltiVec.
They would, however, be formally ending their alliance with Motorola. Mot would switch to Book E, the PPC-compatible standard they hammered out with IBM, pick up a bunch of badly needed cash, and concentrate entirely on their own interests. Apple would (one hopes) pick up the Mot engineers who worked on the Apple-targetted PPCs and non-exclusive rights to the current and in-process designs, including AltiVec. That's it.
The real prize would be Mot CPU engineers. Whatever its other problems, Mot has designed one flat-out gorgeous chip after another for decades. If Apple coaxes them away to continue working on Mac processors at Apple, Apple suddenly has a lot of PPC cred and experience onboard which is no longer stifled by Mot management, strapped by Mot insolvency, and frustrated by Mot fabs.
This newly unified team works with IBM engineers on new designs targeted for fabrication at IBM's new facility. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some money went to IBM, since corporations often express interest by investing in each other (witness the $100 million investment in Samsung, and the investment in Earthlink).
Putting my administrator hat on for a moment: This thread is of course pure speculation based around an unproven rumor (if it was proven it wouldn't be a rumor, would it?). This is obvious to all concerned. If you don't find it interesting, don't contribute. Thanks.
[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
SEC and Wall Street, particularly in the current market climate would be all over this.
Hell, you think Exec's get the eye for selling options... this would be headline news and the tech community would be in a frenzy.
2 or 3 million on a small software company like they have purchased made sense and was a good investment. Those made news.
2 B I L L I O N
Do any of you actually realize how much that is?
I do think it's unlikely Apple would throw that much money at anything though.
If I'm right, it's not a buyout in the way the software firms were. It's a huge transaction, and one that the SEC and other agencies will at least look at, but they'd just be exercizing an option in a contract that both parties agreed to years ago, and investing a chunk in another company to cement a new alliance.
Nothing radical there.
What is radical, and what makes me wonder about this, is Apple blowing half of their stash on anything. That would place the company in a riskier position financially (and, certainly, on the stock market), so the payoff would have to be a big move that boosted revenue. Like Ford pouring its last $3 billion into the Taurus and Sable in the '80s.
<strong>Owning SGI is the kiss of death. SGI hasn't done anything right in years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know - but how about patents? I know SGI sold a lot of them to MS, but still. I included SGI because it was a rumor some time ago..
Anyhow - how about NVidia (which has SGI techies)? Or are there any other companies whose IP might be of interest?
SGI make workstations that still make any pc or mac system look like my original Sinclair ZX80, with graphics performance to make you cry, and which still rule the roost in industries that you haven't even heard of, with innovations in hpc that make a G4 on a 133 bus with SDRam look as sad as it really is
They developed a still profitable and shockingly powerful range of processors through Mips.
They own the major (profitable) softwares in 3d, both film and television, and product design.
IP and patents that Apple would (should) kill for.
Apple make transparent blue consumer pcs. Kiss of death, yeah right...
So who gives a shit about share price? What do those little wankers in Wall Street and The City know about anything anyway?
<strong>
I know - but how about patents? I know SGI sold a lot of them to MS, but still. I included SGI because it was a rumor some time ago..
Anyhow - how about NVidia (which has SGI techies)? Or are there any other companies whose IP might be of interest?</strong><hr></blockquote>
They only sold a few to MS, but they are key shader patents for OpenGL
If Apple bought SGI they'd get all the remaining OpenGL stuff, plus some potentially interesting technology.
But no, if it's true I reckon it's the AIM assets. That would allow Apple to get the G4 made where it wanted.
<strong>What is radical, and what makes me wonder about this, is Apple blowing half of their stash on anything. That would place the company in a riskier position financially (and, certainly, on the stock market), so the payoff would have to be a big move that boosted revenue. Like Ford pouring its last $3 billion into the Taurus and Sable in the '80s.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is what made me think that it ought to be something which would add to Apple's revenue asap and add a large chunk at that.
Now surely Apple wouldn't be buying any company that owns some IP just to start sueing people for royalities?
Hardware would seem the obvious choice, but what kind of hardware compan really makes sense? Motorola? They don't need 2 billion worth of assets from them, imho. Graphics chips company? Too stiff competition in that area I guess. Screen, printer, peripheral business wouldn't make a lot of sense either - if Apple wants they get mass discounts at these shops anyway.
So what's left? Small software shops, but then for 2 billion one would get lots of those! Maybe Apple bought some game software companies to ensure MacOS X ports? Heh.
<strong>
Why shouldn't MS buy out companies(obvious issues with the federal government aside)? IBM just bought out PWC. Why not buy companies on the cheap right now? MS can't get away with it as easily because they are watched more closely.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is a common microsoft practice in market high and low times. They have just chilled in the last few years because of all the lawsuits. Now that they own the president and a 2-4 pack of senators Im sure they will get both guns blazing asap.
<strong>People... get a grip.
SEC and Wall Street, particularly in the current market climate would be all over this.
Hell, you think Exec's get the eye for selling options... this would be headline news and the tech community would be in a frenzy.
2 or 3 million on a small software company like they have purchased made sense and was a good investment. Those made news.
2 B I L L I O N
Do any of you actually realize how much that is?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you have 4.3 billion, spending 2 billion is fine.
There is no law against a company spending its cash reserves, indeed accountants prefer all cash is turned into assets (go figure).
Of course the SEC or whoever will want to check it out to ensure everything is above board and no monopolistic actions are occurring, but it's perfectly allowed.
Apple's future depends on their ability to ship computers that run applications at competitive speeds to the Wintel world, along with Mac OS X's benefits. It appears that Motorola simply does not care about the desktop market, and will not have a competitive CPU for the desktop market in the foreseeable future.
If Apple switched to an x86 CPU, this would anger both developers and customers; which Apple cannot afford to do at this point. Customers have to buy a new round of software updates - again. Developers have to buy new developer tools (at least the ones that use CodeWarrior) and modify their code - again.
It would be in everyone's best interest if Apple were to use a CPU that maintained binary compatibility with existing software. If they have to spend 2 billion to do so, and it will allow Apple to compete once again on the desktop market, I consider it a wise decision.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the original rumour for a second. Something of this magnitude would be known to upper management only, and wouldn't be discussed in public for anyone to overhear. I can hardly imagine Fred and Steve casually discussing this at the local Starbucks while waiting for their Espressos.
[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: PipelineStall ]</p>
<strong>I think it is perfectly reasonable for Apple to spend $2 billion on anything CPU related, and wouldn't be surprised if they did.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know...
With the recent price tankage, for $2B, Apple could buy BOTH ATI and nVidia. Combine those two R&D efforts with what Apple already has, squirt up margins, and Apple suddenly has an additional $2.5B in revenue, can ensure that the best video cards hit their products first, and can siphon money out of PC makers.
I don't think that Matrox and the others could compete with that effort, as I think we all agree that Apple knows their sh*t when it comes to graphics and chipsets.
The SEC would sure give it a sideways glance, but thats okay. MSFT would be P-I-S-S-E-D. Apple could hold the xBox as much hostage as MSFT can Office.
I don't believe it (very, very few people would have prior knowledge of a dual acquisition like this), but it's a vision that'll keep me smiling for a few hours...
In time.