Some Facebook employees don't believe attacks on Apple are justified

Posted:
in General Discussion edited December 2020
Some of Facebook's own employees believe that its recent attacks on Apple, sparked by upcoming iOS privacy features, may be unjustified and could be seen as self-serving.

Credit: AppleInsider
Credit: AppleInsider


The social media giant has attacked Apple specifically for a planned privacy change that would make it harder for advertisers to track users across websites and apps. Facebook has run full-page newspaper ads, in-app banners, and other campaigns decrying the feature.

Facebook's message is that the upcoming privacy change will hurt small and medium businesses. But, according to a BuzzFeed News report, not all of Facebook's employees actually believe that.

"It feels like we are trying to justify doing a bad thing by hiding behind people with a sympathetic message," one engineer wrote in response to an internal post by Facebook ad chief Dany Levy.

Ahead of an internal talk to explain the campaign against Apple, Facebook employees asked or voted on questions about the potential consequences of the attacks.

"Aren't we worried that our stance protecting [small- and medium-sized businesses] will backfire as people see it as 'FB protecting their own business' instead?" read one question from an employee.

A different question acknowledged that Facebook's current efforts could be "bad PR," since people want privacy and the company's efforts against it "will be viewed with cynicism." Another Facebook staffer asked how the social media giant could pick a message that appeared "less self serving."

In his answers to the employee questions, Facebook VP of product marketing Graham Mudd said that the company has been "really clear" about the effects of Apple's privacy features -- including the effects on Facebook's own bottom line.

"We're not trying to sweep that under the rug. We are, you know, a profitable, big company and we're going to get through this and adapt our products and so forth. But the real folks that are going to get hit by this are small businesses, and that's why we made them the focus of the message," Mudd wrote.

In response to employees asking why Facebook didn't choose to be more transparent and convince users to opt in to tracking, Mudd said that this was "Apple's marketing working and convincing you to scapegoat us so they can decide how the internet should work -- even beyond their devices."

"I'm an optimist who works in technology because I think tech can be a lever for democratizing access and giving opportunity. Including for businesses. And if you think this is going to stop with personalized ads . . . well, then I disagree," Mudd said.

The exact feature that Facebook is concerned about is a change that makes the Identifier for Advertisers (IDFA) tag opt in on an app-by-app basis. Facebook says that the feature could impact ad revenue by as much as 60%.

Facebook's attacks on Apple have been criticized by other technology companies and industry groups, including the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

The anti-tracking feature was initially expected to launch with iOS 14, but Apple delayed the rollout to give developers more time to prepare. It's now slated to go into effect in early 2021.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Facebook's attacks in Apple self serving? Whatever gave you that idea??  :o
    williamlondonlkruppNotoriousDEVwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 21
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Zuck:
    "We're doing it for the 'little guy' right Epic?"
    *Robowink*
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 21
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Wow. 

    His name is literally Mudd. 
    mike1watto_cobraTRAG
  • Reply 4 of 21
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    In response to employees asking why Facebook didn't choose to be more transparent and convince users to opt in to tracking, Mudd said that this was "Apple's marketing working and convincing you to scapegoat us so they can decide how the internet should work -- even beyond their devices."
    Mudd attempting to gaslight his own colleagues. 

    Facebook is the company that proudly boasts about its experiments to control the moods of its users by manipulating the contents of their newsfeeds.  


    williamlondonNotoriousDEVbaconstangwatto_cobratobian
  • Reply 5 of 21
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    It’s interesting that Facebook’s employees have a better sense of the public mood than Facebook’s executives. 
    equality72521williamlondonmike1watto_cobratobianDogperson
  • Reply 6 of 21
    ID0ID0 Posts: 15member
    Rayz2016 said:
    It’s interesting that Facebook’s employees have a better sense of the public mood than Facebook’s executives. 
    The risk of loosing bonuses in millions is a threat for the executives. 

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 21
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Awwww....  <3


    williamlondonJaiOh81
  • Reply 8 of 21
    ID0ID0 Posts: 15member
    This is kinda strange guy.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 21
    Small Business: Mom and Pop Ice Cream Shop.

    Also small business: A "consultant" paid by a political campaign to spread misinformation, undermine elections, radicalize citizens and promote violence.
    edited December 2020 MacProwilliamlondonigorskybaconstangwatto_cobratobianRayz2016
  • Reply 10 of 21
    XedXed Posts: 2,823member
    LOL I love how FB/ZuckFace is simply upset that Apple informs you that they're tracking you. As it states, it's simply letting the app know that you request not to be tracked, but it doesn't prevent them from tracking your app usage.

    Long term, the fear for Zuck is that awareness will lead to rules that make it illegal for the Morlocks to treat all of humanity like their Eloi, but that's inevitable regardless of what Apple does today. Unfortunately, it'll be too little too late by the time it happens as the FBs, Amazons, Alphabets, ISPs, and other data harvesters will have lobbied so hard that they'll find solutions before any lip service to ethicality is enacted by lawmakers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 21
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    I can't help feeling FB just keeps 'digging the hole deeper' with this sort of attitude. Complaining that someone, anyone, wants to curb your ability to spy and sell private information is kind of setting yourself up for a fall.
    williamlondonwatto_cobraDogperson
  • Reply 12 of 21
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    Xed said:
    LOL I love how FB/ZuckFace is simply upset that Apple informs you that they're tracking you. As it states, it's simply letting the app know that you request not to be tracked, but it doesn't prevent them from tracking your app usage.

    Long term, the fear for Zuck is that awareness will lead to rules that make it illegal for the Morlocks to treat all of humanity like their Eloi, but that's inevitable regardless of what Apple does today. Unfortunately, it'll be too little too late by the time it happens as the FBs, Amazons, Alphabets, ISPs, and other data harvesters will have lobbied so hard that they'll find solutions before any lip service to ethicality is enacted by lawmakers.
    I agree.  FaceBook's arrogance is staggering in feeling it has a 'right' to spy and sell private information' and Apple is the bad guy for wanting to be a White Knight... it's, well I was going to say Pythonesque but there are probably more modern analogies these days.
    watto_cobraDogperson
  • Reply 13 of 21
    The privacy of the users is the nightmare for Zuckerberg’s business model!
    Actually, Facebook is capable of nothing but to steal the users data. 
    Remember the Facebook Phone, which Zuckerberg announced as the “iPhone killer”?........
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 21
    Apple:

    With Facebook, just like with the coronavirus there is now a cure.  We thought we’d offer, but it’s up to you to take it...
    It doesn’t even require two shots, just one click.

    Facebook:
    ...incomprehensible misinformation for exploitation is our constitutional right!  Protect profits!
    If you can’t understand our FACTS they must be true... 90% of 30% of 30% of 10% of scientists agree!

    Apple:
    So, less than 1% agree...?

    Facebook:
    Hate, not love.  Love, not hate! 

    Apple to legal department:
    Are you sure we can’t just recommend people deleting this trash?
    .....
    Rayz2016watto_cobraDogperson
  • Reply 15 of 21
    Rayz2016 said:
    Wow. 

    His name is literally Mudd. 
    Yes, amazing.

    And the other guy's name makes him sound like the Barber of Fleet Street.

    Perhaps the universe does have a sort of grim and somewhat hilarious sense of justice.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 21
    Rayz2016 said:
    It’s interesting that Facebook’s employees have a better sense of the public mood than Facebook’s executives. 
    The frontline employees usually have a better view/outlook than the bean counters in the rear.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 21
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Wow. 

    His name is literally Mudd. 
    And whenever he talks in front of a camera he comes off as an arrogant little prick. I mean just look at those dark, doll like eyes, sorta like Jaws. No emotion, no empathy, no charisma, no nothing. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 21
    I know folks working for FB think they're doing something 'BIG'.

    But you're just a bunch of mAD MEN...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 21
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    I know folks working for FB think they're doing something 'BIG'.

    But you're just a bunch of mAD MEN...
    I know one chap who works for Facebook.  I try to remember he’s just trying to make a living like the rest of us. 

    I couldn’t work for them though. 
    Dogpersonbaconstang
  • Reply 20 of 21
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,327member
    I personally think Apple should go on the offensive with FB at this point and publicize the advantages of its privacy stance.

    I have three principal mac laptops that i use...an old MBP for high sierra that I keep around for work-citrix compatibility, a new MBP which uses Mojave and an old 12” MB I bring to work because it is light and if it gets stolen, I won’t miss it.

    It runs Big Sur and I have been so impressed with this new iteration of Safari and it’s reports on companies and entities trying to track me.

    I think it is the future.  Ads, pop-up, tracking, surveys are so common place now that the old internet is dead.  I will gladly pay for subscriptions to make it all go away.

    Go Apple, take on FaceBook.
    Dogperson
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