You don't use troops to attack countries with Nukes silly. You either nuke them comprehensively or you engage in politic grandstanding with them. Those are the choices. I'm leaning towards more political wrangling for the time being as the best option.
In the beginning of the World War II many people said the whole thing about superiority of Germans was silly, not evil, too. You know what that ended with. In every joke there is a share of joke. In the meantime the White House's propaganda machine is already encouraging racism and chauvinism on the ground of patriotism. Will it still all be silly when American troops attack France?
This is really really really projecting into hypothesis, hyperbole and pure speculation into a possible future, determined solely by the individual's pessimism and cynicism. I'm not aware of anything from the White House per se promoting racism and whatnot, and even if it were, I at least have a shred of trust in the decency of mankind think that this is alarmist bullshit. Let's all get a grip on things, eh?
This is really really really projecting into hypothesis, hyperbole and pure speculation into a possible future, determined solely by the individual's pessimism and cynicism. I'm not aware of anything from the White House per se promoting racism and whatnot, and even if it were, I at least have a shred of trust in the decency of mankind think that this is alarmist bullshit. Let's all get a grip on things, eh?
I agree that there has not been anything racist or anti-French directly coming out of the Whitehouse. As much as I disagree with Pres. Bush, I don't think that would be his style. I thought that I had heard that some Congressmen made some statements, but I am not sure. I am, however, concerned about the personal and individual level where I have heard both directly and in news reports that negative things are happening.
I thought that I had heard that some Congressmen made some statements, but I am not sure. I am, however, concerned about the personal and individual level where I have heard both directly and in news reports that negative things are happening.
Yeah, I guess I'm getting on costique's comments again due to a technicality -- White House vs. Congress. Needless to say, I hope these people get voted out, they certainly deserve to have their jobs taken. I don't mean to dismiss the problem, just I don't have the same fatalistic attitude about where things are going. I think things will get patched up, though obviously things won't be like they were before, though things between the US and France have been strained for a long time but in a much smaller way.
Just to try to explain to the group the words in my last thread that was locked:
I realize I used rude language about Chirac. I have nothing against the French. It is Chirac I have a problem with.
Here is the simple reason why:
Chirac wants to demonize and has done so the war action in iraq. However when the end result of Regime change and the disarming of Iraq are complete all the sudden Chirac wants France to participate in the end game.
So it is unjustified and wrong.... but at the end France wants to participate. Why would France want to participate if the entire premise from the Chirac point of view is that the War is unjustified and wrong?
I think he is a political oppertunist with his eyes set on continental Europe as his prize...
Personally I think Chirac is just your typical overbearing political figure who will accuse others of doing things, then doing the same. IE, saying the US was trying to bully people into taking the U.S. side, but then he turns around and tries to bully other nations into taking his side... he may say everyone else is wrong, and weather they are or not, his methods are too.
It's easy to understand that Chirac is not popular in US. But some points have to been made :
- The french aerian space is open to US and UK , since the beginning of the war at the difference of turkey until today.
- Chirac said he regret this war outside UN , at the difference of Russia who want to sue US and UK for an illegal war
- France is ready to enter in the coalition if Iraq use chemical or biological weapons.
- Chirac send a message of condolence to Blair concerning the dead soldiers in the Heliocopter. Blair said that he deeply appreciate it.
There is a strong divergence of opinion between France US and UK, but it does not bring anything to turn it into a caricature.
Any comment comparing Bush or Chirac to Hitler are ridiculous and are an insult for the millions of people who died and the others millions who suffer.
The reason you don't see hostility for China or Russia is that they are China and Russia. You always feel more betrayed by your friend than by your enemy or someone who you don't like much. Take it as a compliment, if you like.
At the end of the day France is a US ally and has been for years, that is why there is such anger between the sides. I stay angry with my brother longer than with a classmate I barely know.
It's easy to understand that Chirac is not popular in US. But some points have to been made :
- The french aerian space is open to US and UK , since the beginning of the war at the difference of turkey until today.
- Chirac said he regret this war outside UN , at the difference of Russia who want to sue US and UK for an illegal war
- France is ready to enter in the coalition if Iraq use chemical or biological weapons.
- Chirac send a message of condolence to Blair concerning the dead soldiers in the Heliocopter. Blair said that he deeply appreciate it.
There is a strong divergence of opinion between France US and UK, but it does not bring anything to turn it into a caricature.
Any comment comparing Bush or Chirac to Hitler are ridiculous and are an insult for the millions of people who died and the others millions who suffer.
Powerdoc I want to make it very clear that I respect you as a person. I do not care what country you are from whether it be Iraq, Romania, America, France, or Russia.
I respect you and to you being that you are from France I am sorry personally to you that I said some very rude things in the locked post about Chirac.
I will say I do not respect Chirac. That is a fact but please know that I respect you very much and I feel compeled to say I am sorry about the rude remarks I made about the leader of the French.
Of course Chirac is not Hitler. I thouhgt there should be a day if just one day it is someone other than Bush to receive that rediculous title.
Again I do not care for Chirac at all. But Powerdoc I hope you know I respect you very much.
If you were to say on here that you did not like Bush at all I would respect that.
If you even said very rude things about Bush because things did not sit well with you I would respect your opinion.
The reason you don't see hostility for China or Russia is that they are China and Russia. You always feel more betrayed by your friend than by your enemy or someone who you don't like much. Take it as a compliment, if you like.
At the end of the day France is a US ally and has been for years, that is why there is such anger between the sides. I stay angry with my brother longer than with a classmate I barely know.
I don't know who is worse for US/France relations, Bush or Chirac.
He certainly is digging in. Become quite unilateral in his stance against unilateralism.
Both men make for poor diplomats, no? It's no wonder what IMO is otherwise a just cause (persumably toppling Hussein) has become so divisive. Both Americans and the French could do much better. Problem is, who exactly would do much better?
Both men make for poor diplomats, no? It's no wonder what IMO is otherwise a just cause (persumably toppling Hussein) has become so divisive. Both Americans and the French could do much better. Problem is, who exactly would do much better?
It's like a divorce between two people : who start, who is guilty, difficult to say when you are outside. Let's say that we hope things will be better in the future. Chirac is a big mouth, it's good for his public opinion, it's not good for countries which have a different opinion.
Groverat : i fully understand that point. i just try to keep things in context, afterall when we are pissed by a friend, we have to keep in mind all the things we shared.
Fship : you have the rigth to not appreciate Chirac or anypeople you want, i did not take that personally. I just finded that the Hitler thing was a little too much. You did not offend me, i know you will never try to do that.
How about we let Blair run England, France and the US?
Interesting suggestion, but Blair only run countries where there is a Queen. And if my knowledge is correct the only queens we have in US and France are Drag-queens
Comments
Originally posted by costique
In the beginning of the World War II many people said the whole thing about superiority of Germans was silly, not evil, too. You know what that ended with. In every joke there is a share of joke. In the meantime the White House's propaganda machine is already encouraging racism and chauvinism on the ground of patriotism. Will it still all be silly when American troops attack France?
This is really really really projecting into hypothesis, hyperbole and pure speculation into a possible future, determined solely by the individual's pessimism and cynicism. I'm not aware of anything from the White House per se promoting racism and whatnot, and even if it were, I at least have a shred of trust in the decency of mankind think that this is alarmist bullshit. Let's all get a grip on things, eh?
Originally posted by BuonRotto
This is really really really projecting into hypothesis, hyperbole and pure speculation into a possible future, determined solely by the individual's pessimism and cynicism. I'm not aware of anything from the White House per se promoting racism and whatnot, and even if it were, I at least have a shred of trust in the decency of mankind think that this is alarmist bullshit. Let's all get a grip on things, eh?
I agree that there has not been anything racist or anti-French directly coming out of the Whitehouse. As much as I disagree with Pres. Bush, I don't think that would be his style. I thought that I had heard that some Congressmen made some statements, but I am not sure. I am, however, concerned about the personal and individual level where I have heard both directly and in news reports that negative things are happening.
Originally posted by Chinney
I thought that I had heard that some Congressmen made some statements, but I am not sure. I am, however, concerned about the personal and individual level where I have heard both directly and in news reports that negative things are happening.
Yeah, I guess I'm getting on costique's comments again due to a technicality -- White House vs. Congress. Needless to say, I hope these people get voted out, they certainly deserve to have their jobs taken. I don't mean to dismiss the problem, just I don't have the same fatalistic attitude about where things are going. I think things will get patched up, though obviously things won't be like they were before, though things between the US and France have been strained for a long time but in a much smaller way.
I realize I used rude language about Chirac. I have nothing against the French. It is Chirac I have a problem with.
Here is the simple reason why:
Chirac wants to demonize and has done so the war action in iraq. However when the end result of Regime change and the disarming of Iraq are complete all the sudden Chirac wants France to participate in the end game.
So it is unjustified and wrong.... but at the end France wants to participate. Why would France want to participate if the entire premise from the Chirac point of view is that the War is unjustified and wrong?
I think he is a political oppertunist with his eyes set on continental Europe as his prize...
Fellowship
He certainly is digging in. Become quite unilateral in his stance against unilateralism.
- The french aerian space is open to US and UK , since the beginning of the war at the difference of turkey until today.
- Chirac said he regret this war outside UN , at the difference of Russia who want to sue US and UK for an illegal war
- France is ready to enter in the coalition if Iraq use chemical or biological weapons.
- Chirac send a message of condolence to Blair concerning the dead soldiers in the Heliocopter. Blair said that he deeply appreciate it.
There is a strong divergence of opinion between France US and UK, but it does not bring anything to turn it into a caricature.
Any comment comparing Bush or Chirac to Hitler are ridiculous and are an insult for the millions of people who died and the others millions who suffer.
At the end of the day France is a US ally and has been for years, that is why there is such anger between the sides. I stay angry with my brother longer than with a classmate I barely know.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
It's easy to understand that Chirac is not popular in US. But some points have to been made :
- The french aerian space is open to US and UK , since the beginning of the war at the difference of turkey until today.
- Chirac said he regret this war outside UN , at the difference of Russia who want to sue US and UK for an illegal war
- France is ready to enter in the coalition if Iraq use chemical or biological weapons.
- Chirac send a message of condolence to Blair concerning the dead soldiers in the Heliocopter. Blair said that he deeply appreciate it.
There is a strong divergence of opinion between France US and UK, but it does not bring anything to turn it into a caricature.
Any comment comparing Bush or Chirac to Hitler are ridiculous and are an insult for the millions of people who died and the others millions who suffer.
Powerdoc I want to make it very clear that I respect you as a person. I do not care what country you are from whether it be Iraq, Romania, America, France, or Russia.
I respect you and to you being that you are from France I am sorry personally to you that I said some very rude things in the locked post about Chirac.
I will say I do not respect Chirac. That is a fact but please know that I respect you very much and I feel compeled to say I am sorry about the rude remarks I made about the leader of the French.
Of course Chirac is not Hitler. I thouhgt there should be a day if just one day it is someone other than Bush to receive that rediculous title.
Again I do not care for Chirac at all. But Powerdoc I hope you know I respect you very much.
If you were to say on here that you did not like Bush at all I would respect that.
If you even said very rude things about Bush because things did not sit well with you I would respect your opinion.
Fellowship
Originally posted by groverat
The reason you don't see hostility for China or Russia is that they are China and Russia. You always feel more betrayed by your friend than by your enemy or someone who you don't like much. Take it as a compliment, if you like.
At the end of the day France is a US ally and has been for years, that is why there is such anger between the sides. I stay angry with my brother longer than with a classmate I barely know.
This is exactly the point.
Very well put.
Fellowship
Originally posted by groverat
I don't know who is worse for US/France relations, Bush or Chirac.
He certainly is digging in. Become quite unilateral in his stance against unilateralism.
Both men make for poor diplomats, no? It's no wonder what IMO is otherwise a just cause (persumably toppling Hussein) has become so divisive. Both Americans and the French could do much better. Problem is, who exactly would do much better?
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Both men make for poor diplomats, no? It's no wonder what IMO is otherwise a just cause (persumably toppling Hussein) has become so divisive. Both Americans and the French could do much better. Problem is, who exactly would do much better?
It's like a divorce between two people : who start, who is guilty, difficult to say when you are outside. Let's say that we hope things will be better in the future. Chirac is a big mouth, it's good for his public opinion, it's not good for countries which have a different opinion.
Groverat : i fully understand that point. i just try to keep things in context, afterall when we are pissed by a friend, we have to keep in mind all the things we shared.
Fship : you have the rigth to not appreciate Chirac or anypeople you want, i did not take that personally. I just finded that the Hitler thing was a little too much. You did not offend me, i know you will never try to do that.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
How about we let Blair run England, France and the US?
Interesting suggestion, but Blair only run countries where there is a Queen. And if my knowledge is correct the only queens we have in US and France are Drag-queens