Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
When you live in denial, no factual evidence will change your mind. Their treatment of people in HK, Tibet and the Uighers is not a “smear campaign”.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.
Oh please. Stop shilling for a murderous regime! Very few in the West believe that!
Oh Please. Stop for shilling for the insurrectionist. Very few in the West tolerate the disinformation anymore.
Why doesn't Supermicro sue Bloomberg for slander? Force Bloomberg to either prove their story by presenting facts or back down and retract the story.
Because that would drag out a non-story for years. By staying out of court, it’ll be forgotten about in a fortnight.
Or prove it to be true. Why run from the sunlight?
It’ll take months/years to get sorted in court, while Bloomberg picks up page clicks without presenting evidence. That would be more damaging to SuperMicro in the long run, so it’s better just to point out the flaws, the lack of evidence, and wait for it to blow over.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.
You're denying that they've occupied and oppressed Tibet now? This is a new low Georgie.
The Chinese government has a long history of human rights violation and oppression. You can categorize it as “evil. Unfortunately, such a thing as evil exists in the world. If Russia is bad, China is at least as much.
Neither are “the good guys.” Most American companies going business with China are doing shefsuse its cheaper to operate that way. In addition, because America has sent so much money there, the economy in China is very strong. It was shortsighted to settle on our country being a services economy and forgoing the production. Simple as that.
We seemed to regain a small amount of production in recent years, but we will see how much momentum that has.
The whole point about the “spy chip” story is that it is plausible, but not proven. And our country has a bedrock application of justice in the mantra “innocent until PROVEN guilty. Whether that is in court, in politics, in daily life, or in the court of public opinion.
There is plenty to point at the oppressive Chinese government with (not the Chinese people in general. Highly Important distinction).
The chip story could well be true. But unless there is proof, it cannot be treated as such. There is enough trouble with that government that we do not need to manufacture reasons to distrust and move our economy away from it.
Does everyone agree that China has the motive, opportunity and means to perform this type of attack? This is my question for everyone here. Answer it. Don't evade the question.
No
Like Apple and others, China and its manufacturers value their long term profitability over some imagined short term gain. The motive is not there.
Because we hate China does not mean that China hates us.
On the other hand, after multiple serious attacks, we do know that Russia has the motive, opportunity and means to attack and disrupt our nation
If you are so sure that China isn't spying on the US, you should go correct wikipedia which documents lots of active spying against the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_United_States <-- If I have to choose between believing wikipedia or you, I'll pick wikipedia.
Chinese spying is in the news every week. Maybe you don't listen to the news. In fact it was recently reported that a Chinese honey trap spy was sleeping with Eric Swalwell, who ironically was one of the lawyers trying to impeach Trump this week. And for some reason nobody cares that Dem leaders are LITERALLY sleeping with Chinese spies. If Trump had slept with a foreign spy in the same way that Swalwell did, he definitely would have been impeached.
Sure, China has lots of business with the West, but so does Russia, through their exports of natural gas to Europe. So your logic doesn't work. A large part of Russia's foreign reserves come from their sale of natural gas to Europe. In January Trump and the US Congress imposed sanctions on Russia's Nord Stream 2 natural gas link with Europe. But we should hear this month if Biden is going to enforce the sanctions that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress voted for with strong bipartisan support. Most likely the millions that Hunter Biden received from Russia will help persuade Joe Biden to not impose those sanctions.
Why doesn't Supermicro sue Bloomberg for slander? Force Bloomberg to either prove their story by presenting facts or back down and retract the story.
Because that would drag out a non-story for years. By staying out of court, it’ll be forgotten about in a fortnight.
Or prove it to be true. Why run from the sunlight?
It’ll take months/years to get sorted in court, while Bloomberg picks up page clicks without presenting evidence. That would be more damaging to SuperMicro in the long run, so it’s better just to point out the flaws, the lack of evidence, and wait for it to blow over.
I think this is just a tendencious story, serving as a ground for future negation of something else.
When I use my iPhone to look up “tendencious” it give the meaning in Chinese. Not a commonly used English word! Try look up on your iPhone. Are their trolls are already here?
Edit: And within minutes of Tobian posting there is already someone who found the post “informative”. Mm
You seem paranoid no more than me (isn’t your post somehow informative?). and yes, I’m not english native, so I’m using dictionary from time to time. Simply imagine there’s “t” instead of “c” and think again what I wanted to tell. I’m not downplaying the possibility of China spying on others.
Your comment seems tendencious. And just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean China isn’t out to try destroy democracy, violate human rights, steal our intellectual property and murder Uighers and the people of Tibet.
And just because you hate them doesn't prove that they are or have done any of that.
Oh please. Stop shilling for a murderous regime! Very few in the West believe that!
Oh Please. Stop for shilling for the insurrectionist. Very few in the West tolerate the disinformation anymore.
How is standing up for democracy in HK and the plight of Uighers and the people of Tibet standing up for the “insirrectionist” unless you mean Tiananmen Square in which case I proudly stand with them! What do you stand for “George”? The man standing in front of the tanks that day is one of the bravest people I can think of. Up there with, Jamal Khashoggi, Alexei Navalny, Brian D. Sicknick and Eugene Goodman.
How is standing up for democracy in HK and the plight of Uighers and the people of Tibet standing up for the “insirrectionist” unless you mean Tiananmen Square in which case I proudly stand with them! What do you stand for “George”?
I can speak only for myself, but I can easily see through George's thinly veiled benightedness. You don't need to argue with him, at least not for my sake.
How is standing up for democracy in HK and the plight of Uighers and the people of Tibet standing up for the “insirrectionist” unless you mean Tiananmen Square in which case I proudly stand with them! What do you stand for “George”?
I can speak only for myself, but I can easily see through George's thinly veiled benightedness. You don't need to argue with him, at least not for my sake.
Thanks @22july2013 But I don’t do it for you or even for me. I do it call out the stupidity of someone who at best puts some sort of fanaticism in a company over the millions who have been displaced, imprisoned, tortured and killed by a murderous regime and at worse I guess could be complicit with them though unlike him / her I won’t cast aspersions on him / her despite him / her calling me someone who hates the Chinese people and tried to link me to the domestic terrorism of January 6 here in the US.
How is standing up for democracy in HK and the plight of Uighers and the people of Tibet standing up for the “insirrectionist” unless you mean Tiananmen Square in which case I proudly stand with them! What do you stand for “George”?
I can speak only for myself, but I can easily see through George's thinly veiled benightedness. You don't need to argue with him, at least not for my sake.
Thanks @22july2013 But I don’t do it for you or even for me. I do it call out the stupidity of someone who at best puts some sort of fanaticism in a company over the millions who have been displaced, imprisoned, tortured and killed by a murderous regime and at worse I guess could be complicit with them though unlike him / her I won’t cast aspersions on him / her despite him / her calling me someone who hates the Chinese people and tried to link me to the domestic terrorism of January 6 here in the US.
Thanks. Hey, if we lived in China and spoke against our leaders, we'd be in jail. We both have a lot to be grateful for (even though you and I live in different countries.) As Ronald Reagan said, "government is the problem"... but our government isn't the enemy. I could list a dozen major countries who are the enemy. And I'm glad George lives in a free country where he can speak freely otherwise he would have the longest jail sentence of any of us. He doesn't deserve to be in jail for what he says, although he does deserve to be criticized. If I was fit for military service I would defend his right to express his wrong opinions even to my own death.
Why doesn't Supermicro sue Bloomberg for slander? Force Bloomberg to either prove their story by presenting facts or back down and retract the story.
Because that would drag out a non-story for years. By staying out of court, it’ll be forgotten about in a fortnight.
Or prove it to be true. Why run from the sunlight?
It’ll take months/years to get sorted in court, while Bloomberg picks up page clicks without presenting evidence. That would be more damaging to SuperMicro in the long run, so it’s better just to point out the flaws, the lack of evidence, and wait for it to blow over.
Doesn’t seem to be stopping Dominion.
That’s an excellent point, and I’m glad you brought it up.
Dominion has a very different problem, which requires a different solution. They need to show a vocal minority of people, who’re so desperate to have their racism justified that they will believe any crackpot theory put out by any halfwit they’ve never heard of, that the Dominion voting system works. They need to be louder than the vocal minority. So they sue.
And personally, I don’t think this will work, because the people they’re trying to convince don’t want to be convinced. They want to carry on believing the fraud lie, so they will immediately look for another crackpot theory to follow, even more ridiculous than the last. Anything so long as they don’t have to take a long hard look at that themselves to see what’s really behind their hatred of anyone who doesn’t look like them.
SuperMicro don’t have to convince anyone, Bloomberg does. Why? Because the people who SM care about are not going to be convinced until they see some evidence. They’re certainly not going to storm SM’s offices until they see a shred of proof. Bloomberg shows what they’ve got, then they can act, but the dumb thing to do is throw out billions of dollars in equipment because of a “rice-grain-sized chip” no one has seen.
Here’s the thing: you’ve made up your mind, so if SM sues, you’ll simply change your position to “They’re taking Bloomberg to court! They must be hiding something!” So why waste millions in court trying to convince you? You’re not going to buy their gear anyway.
But if we’re still talking about this in two weeks, then SM will need to switch tactics.
I’m just not sure we’ll still be talking about this in two weeks. 🤷🏾♂️
Ignoring this particular story, all governments have the motive to plant bugs against hostile nations. Very few have the opportunity, since all motherboards are made in China. The gov't of China has both motive AND opportunity. It's obvious they also have the means to do so, including Chinese law and political system which permits the CCP to do this.
Does everyone agree that China has the motive, opportunity and means to perform this type of attack? This is my question for everyone here. Answer it. Don't evade the question.
Not necessarily the means.
Well, the means is the problem.
If China does have a chip the size of a grain rice that can break security encryption, sift intelligently through terabytes of data and send it without detection, then they don’t need to steal IP.
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
When you live in denial, no factual evidence will change your mind. Their treatment of people in HK, Tibet and the Uighers is not a “smear campaign”.
All I hear are allegations coming from smear campaigns.
Had the HongKong protestors did that here Chump would have mowed them down -- unless they were Proud Boys -- then he would have cheered them on.
Very simply, we need to fix the problems here rather than distracting people with the holier than thou, "Look over there" nonsense.
When the China Hater in Chief supports and incites racists, neo-nazis, misogynists and antisemitics to attack our democracy to install himself as a dictator it shows the hypocrisy of those who support him but attack others.
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
When you live in denial, no factual evidence will change your mind. Their treatment of people in HK, Tibet and the Uighers is not a “smear campaign”.
All I hear are allegations coming from smear campaigns.
Had the HongKong protestors did that here Chump would have mowed them down -- unless they were Proud Boys -- then he would have cheered them on.
Very simply, we need to fix the problems here rather than distracting people with the holier than thou, "Look over there" nonsense.
When the China Hater in Chief supports and incites racists, neo-nazis, misogynists and antisemitics to attack our democracy to install himself as a dictator it shows the hypocrisy of those who support him but attack others.
You don't hear anything because you don't listen to anything.
We are talking about mass incarceration, forced sterilisation and systematic rape. "Holier than though" doesn't really cut it George. Your refusal to engage with this at all because of an inability to see anything except Trump is very distressing. Trump is not President any more and this stuff really matters.
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
When you live in denial, no factual evidence will change your mind. Their treatment of people in HK, Tibet and the Uighers is not a “smear campaign”.
All I hear are allegations coming from smear campaigns.
Had the HongKong protestors did that here Chump would have mowed them down -- unless they were Proud Boys -- then he would have cheered them on.
Very simply, we need to fix the problems here rather than distracting people with the holier than thou, "Look over there" nonsense.
When the China Hater in Chief supports and incites racists, neo-nazis, misogynists and antisemitics to attack our democracy to install himself as a dictator it shows the hypocrisy of those who support him but attack others.
Trump is out of office. Please move forward.
FYI, Biden has already spoken to Xi about human rights abuses. Does this mean Biden is part of what you call the "smear campaign?"
I still value George's opinions when he talks about Apple. Just not his opinions on anything else. I can still be nice to him when he talks appropriately.
Do I believe Appleinsider or Bloomberg that China is attempting to use every possible means to spy on Americans, steal our data and IP? Mmm. Even if the finer details are in question when I look at their spying on their own citizens, their murderous treatment of Uighurs, the suppression of democracy in Hong Kong etc. and the idea that China is not trying every possible means to subvert and steal from the US is laughable. And it sounds like Biden will continue Trump’s crackdown on them. It is time to take the pain and break off our business relationships with them and bring manufacturing back to the US and let them try become a superpower without stealing from us.
Which assumes that the smear campaigns against them were actually true.
I'll wait for factual evidence rather than smear campaigns, and unproven allegations.
When you live in denial, no factual evidence will change your mind. Their treatment of people in HK, Tibet and the Uighers is not a “smear campaign”.
All I hear are allegations coming from smear campaigns.
Had the HongKong protestors did that here Chump would have mowed them down -- unless they were Proud Boys -- then he would have cheered them on.
Very simply, we need to fix the problems here rather than distracting people with the holier than thou, "Look over there" nonsense.
When the China Hater in Chief supports and incites racists, neo-nazis, misogynists and antisemitics to attack our democracy to install himself as a dictator it shows the hypocrisy of those who support him but attack others.
You don't hear anything because you don't listen to anything.
We are talking about mass incarceration, forced sterilisation and systematic rape. "Holier than though" doesn't really cut it George. Your refusal to engage with this at all because of an inability to see anything except Trump is very distressing. Trump is not President any more and this stuff really matters.
China just expelled the BBC for false, distorted reporting for which they had no evidence.
Britain and their BBC has been on a rampage against China ever since they quelled the HongKong rebellion (which was instigated and supported by both Britain and the U.S -- they have minded their own business).
Otherwise, it's been a fairly impartial, objective news source. But, Hong Kong set them off.
I still value George's opinions when he talks about Apple. Just not his opinions on anything else. I can still be nice to him when he talks appropriately.
I just value truth and reality over propaganda. But that's just me.
I find it odd that we support the documented oppression and murder of Palestinians but get all in a huff over allegations of wrong doing by China. It makes it sound like we might have an ulterior motive.
Comments
Chinese spying is in the news every week. Maybe you don't listen to the news. In fact it was recently reported that a Chinese honey trap spy was sleeping with Eric Swalwell, who ironically was one of the lawyers trying to impeach Trump this week. And for some reason nobody cares that Dem leaders are LITERALLY sleeping with Chinese spies. If Trump had slept with a foreign spy in the same way that Swalwell did, he definitely would have been impeached.
Sure, China has lots of business with the West, but so does Russia, through their exports of natural gas to Europe. So your logic doesn't work. A large part of Russia's foreign reserves come from their sale of natural gas to Europe. In January Trump and the US Congress imposed sanctions on Russia's Nord Stream 2 natural gas link with Europe. But we should hear this month if Biden is going to enforce the sanctions that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress voted for with strong bipartisan support. Most likely the millions that Hunter Biden received from Russia will help persuade Joe Biden to not impose those sanctions.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/biden-weighs-sanctions-russian-pipeline-he-called-bad-deal-europe-n1257608
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55973215
We are talking about mass incarceration, forced sterilisation and systematic rape. "Holier than though" doesn't really cut it George. Your refusal to engage with this at all because of an inability to see anything except Trump is very distressing. Trump is not President any more and this stuff really matters.