If they do add SD card support back again thinking it would be more for the influencer and social media types wanting to read their microSD cards from their GoPros.
Professional photographers are either uploading to portable HDs or have desktop HDs w/readers so they will connect those devices in typical fashion.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
My Panasonic GH5 is still an extremely popular 4K video camera which doesn't link up to Macs like the newer Sonys. I shoot on SD and then remove the card and put that card into the SD card slot of my mid-2015 15" MBP. I use the SD card slot ALL THE TIME. It's far better than a stupid dongle which can easily be lost or misplaced or forgotten. Dongles also stick out of the machine and can easily be detached by accident. An internal solution is best, and I am super pleased they are bringing it back.
The other reason this news is great is because Apple will no doubt add the latest SD card tech — SD Express. That's basically a removable SSD in your Mac. Everybody who has "I don't need it so you shouldn't either" syndrome forgets that important detail.
Lastly, a lot of the disbelief that the SD card is coming back centers on all the bashing that has been going on since the SD card's demise. People who didn't need it, bashed those of us who did, claiming, "Apple will never go back! Ha!" And now that Apple is going back, it's hard for the bashers to backtrack all that bashing. The good news is that we who were bashed don't hold a grudge. We will get what we wanted all along, and those of you who still contend you don't need it, lose NOTHING. You simply can choose not to use that slot. And that's the great thing about it coming back — everybody is pleased in the end. Nobody loses anything. We only stand to gain!
You have made some good points and presented them well.
I will say that I’m in the camp I’m in because when those other ports come back I do lose something... I lose what could have taken that space and those resources instead. I’m a huge fan of having as many of the fastest most flexible and powerful “handle anything” port (currently thunderbolt 3/4) on laptops and nothing else because for every other specialized port you put on there it’s one less “handle anything” port. I lose that.
And for every “well they could just make it a bit bigger” line, my response is “and if they do that then I want them to make it bigger for more ‘handle anything’ ports not more specialized ports.”
Then there’s the question of where do you draw the line? Some people want HDMI but don’t care for SD. Other people are the other way around. And some want more USB-A, others don’t. Or Ethernet. Or whatever. And there’s good arguments for - and against - all of them.
And none of that considers what drives the ports -- how the PCIe lanes and whatever else in the chip, etc. are distributed among those ports and what's not available to other ports, or whatever.
Now, I say all this, not to disagree with your points. Your argument is a very good one, to point. I just want to point out that it’s not as simple as “no one loses anything". There's only so much space and resources in these machines, and for every port that's included something else is left out.
25 years ago Apple made a thing called the PowerBook Duo. It was a tiny (by the standards of the day) laptop with virtually no ports, but a kind of universal dock connector port, and you could attach any of a number of docks to it with whatever port arrangements you wanted on it. And with one of these docks connected, it molded into the shape of the laptop, it wasn't something hanging off the side or whatever.
Also, about 30 years go, there was the G3 laptop range. It had two compartments, one on each side, into which you could slide in any two of a number of modules. Modules included more battery, CD/DVD drive, various port adapters, etc.
If Apple could make the shape of the MBP something with a recessed compartment into which we could slide something like those form fitting hyperdrive docks, THAT's when we'd have the best of all worlds. Coming off the logic board could be the same four (or more?) thunderbolt ports we have today, and these docks could slide into position and in a sense "complete" the laptop with whatever port configurations an individual user might want.
Unfortunately, I think this kind of thing challenges Apple's aesthetics a little too much, such that I don't see that they're likely to do something like that. But... anyone else here who agrees with the idea -- why don't we all write to Tim (tcook@apple.com) and also post on Apple's feedback page (https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html) with these Ideas, and perhaps enough voices might change their minds.
Lmao, a long thought of nothing.
This is why your forum is evil and foolish. In fact every time I quit it makes me think better.
Me signing off, have your stupid port in your dream.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
Yet another case of "I need it, so everyone else should too" syndrome.
Well, no, jdw never said that. You said that. Jdw simply said there are people who use it as a reply to someone who said no one would use it. You distorted that to "everyone needs it" so you could have an argument.
So how do you know most pros are in desperate need for a HDMI?
Ummm...you’re doing the same thing. I never said ‘most pros are in desperate need for a HDMI.’ What I said was HDMI was far and away the most common video standard, and backed that up with evidence. But you win a prize for following auxio and changing what someone said so it fit your argument. I’ll see if I can find a gold start for you.
Crossing my fingers for a 5-1/4" floppy disk drive next
Or serial and parallel ports too, some pros still needs them ߤ㦬t;/div>
SCSI baby... back to the future!
Is it April 1st yet? So-called "pros" who can afford a $2k+ laptop but not a couple of adapters as a stopgap until their next camera upgrade? Riiight...
Nah, just pros who expect their professional portable equipment to be fully functional out of the box without having to carry a bunch of extra kit.
oh, the trouble with the TouchBar is it has never been fully embraced by developers, so it’s potential was never realised. For example, my daughter once disclosed to me she has it set up to replicate a fixed row of function keys most of the time, except for when she wants to message emojis. Emojis! That is a lot of hardware cost for the minimal extra functionality it delivers after five years. Not a success. Cutting it out represents savings. Whether the savings go to the buyer or Apple’s margins is a question for Tim Apple.
And eliminate the TouchBar? I use that every-single-time I use my Mac. It’s genius. They had better keep it.
To be fair, that's how some of us felt about USB-A ports, HDMI, headphone jacks, magsafe, and yes, even the SD card slot. Apple ditching three of those things is partly why I'm typing this on a Dell XPS. (That and an $800 price difference, and I'm fluent in Windows and macOS) I still use USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, and the headphone jack at least two or three times a week, and carrying around 3 or 4 dongles for such often-used features is a pain.
Oh we won't see Type-A going out anytime soon, they're so damn cheap to put one on your device. Then again, I could argue the same with RS-232 and Printer port too. How many years since the latest HDMI specification released? Do you think it's good to put your next design for a half decade with something couldn't even catch up? That all of their features is already in the Type-C?
Well HDMI 2.1 is a thing. It might making a come back but that's still easy to implement in Type-C. The latter, with DisplayPort 2.0, can go up to 16K.
You're right about the Touch Bar, though anything keyboard-related were almost never something that important, unless you f* up badly.
Except no RS-232 hasn’t been in widespread use for peripherals for years whereas USB A is still the dominant connector in the market place. You’re quite good at straw man arguments.
At this point, HDMI is essentially the USB A of video connections. USB HDMI 2.1 can technically go up to 8k, it’s ubiquitous, easy, and people have the cables. Sure, TB is superior for 5 and 8k monitors, but the vast majority of people don’t use those. I just bought a new monitor and the price difference between 4K and 5k is prohibitive, so unless people truly need the extra resolution they’re unlikely to pay for it. I can also say that it is far easier to find an HDMI or display port monitor than a USB C monitor. When I limited my choice to USB C the field dropped to just a handful of models. At some point Thunderbolt may overtake it, but not in the near term.
USB C also has a significant flaw in that it’s not a protocol, just a connector. If you see a USB C port, you have no idea whether it’s USB 3, thunderbolt, charging, some of the above or all of the above. And when you get a USB C cable, you have no idea what it’s capable of, either.
I was just about to say, you can't be the "Type-A of something" and "not the gold standard" at the same time, but anyway.
Nobody is saying HDMI definitely won't coming back, but certainly short-sighted if they do.
Just like that serial port, while it may be as popular today, it's big enough not to ignore it, ain't a rare sight to see someone PuTTY in through console port, Dell still have them on their desktops, too. Had it been another "HDMI", you'll be arguing why should they exist on the Mac too.
The problem is that whatever the RS-232 can do, so does the USB. This is exactly what HDMI compared to Type-C.
Saying it is the "Type-A of something" doesn't justify its place on Macs, as Type-A itself is slowly moving to an end. What Apple want for ports (and not you and me) is always something more capable rather than quantity. Just the way it is.
(By the way, none of you like to mention that the 15", 16" and M1 got more port bandwidth than pretty much any laptops out there, besides Alienware.)
So the only way to justify its place, like I said earlier, you need something the Type-C/Thunderbolt simply couldn't do.
Bandwidth? Not an issue. Features? Thunderbolt have audio interface as well. If anything, it can treat HDMI as a PCIe device, so long you have the cable. The only thing I can think of is they won't be as cheap as native cables, but that's a small price to pay.
Let along that monitors are moving towards Type-C (with DP) and licensing fees from HDMI-LA.
We're talking about a design that's for the next five years at least, so how big of a deal is it to lose something primarily dominated at TV sets? Even monitors today gotta have at least some DisplayPort to go with it.
- I corrected a typo above; I meant to say HDMI 2.1, not USB 2.1 -
I'm trying to follow your post and it's not easy - I'll assume autocorrect got the best of you, but here goes...
HDMI doesn't need to 'come back;' it hasn't left. That's the point. Go to the store and look at any TV - you will see HDMI. Go to B&H and look at monitors - the most common connection is HDMI, and not by a little, either. That's what you seem to have a hard time understanding. HDMI is THE most common video interface in the market right now. (in case you didn't realize it, the mac mini has an HDMI port, too.)
Apart from just being wrong, what you said about RS-232 makes absolutely no sense, so I'll let a nonsensical statement stand on its own.
No one disputes that TB has greater bandwidth; The justification for USB A and HDMI has nothing to do with their technical superiority or bandwidth. It has to do with their ubiquity and usefulness. This isn't a 'I need it' argument; it's a 'the world uses it' argument. The fact that Apple continues to use both in all their devices except MacBooks says that they actually recognize it, too.
At some point, USB C likely will take over in the mean time we all have to live and work in today's world, not what we expect the future world to be.
I was originally on board with the Touch Bar, but having used a MacBook Pro for work recently, I haven’t used the multi touch aspect of it at all. It’s nice that it’s configurable, but miss the tactile sensations of the keys. I’d much prefer something in between, like the optimus Maximus, where each key is a mini screen and can be assigned an image based on its function. You’d get the best of both touchbar and physical key worlds. L
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
Yet another case of "I need it, so everyone else should too" syndrome.
Flat out wrong. Here's why...
When I seek a feature to be RESTORED, it is not an unreasonable request at all, especially when that thing is still in wide use today. AND, the restoration of that feature doesn't harm you one single bit. When a feature is NOT restored, you could care less, but I feel disappointed.
And so, the syndrome only goes 1 way, my friend.
When I ask for something as per the Biblical command to "Ask and ye shall receive!" and then by a great miracle I receive something because I asked (I do send Apple a lot of feedback), here you come along trying to bash that great thing and take it away. I have taken nothing from you. I am merely a recipient of a blessing. The return of the SD card slot is indeed a blessing.
Perhaps now you can see why one thing is a syndrome and another is not. Even if you don't need a given thing, it's always nice to rejoice with your friends who wanted that thing and received it, rather than tear them to pieces only because you cannot find it within your heart to celebrate along side them. That is the entire point of everything I have written about the SD card slot to date.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
Yet another case of "I need it, so everyone else should too" syndrome.
Well, no, jdw never said that. You said that. Jdw simply said there are people who use it as a reply to someone who said no one would use it. You distorted that to "everyone needs it" so you could have an argument.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
My Panasonic GH5 is still an extremely popular 4K video camera which doesn't link up to Macs like the newer Sonys. I shoot on SD and then remove the card and put that card into the SD card slot of my mid-2015 15" MBP. I use the SD card slot ALL THE TIME. It's far better than a stupid dongle which can easily be lost or misplaced or forgotten. Dongles also stick out of the machine and can easily be detached by accident. An internal solution is best, and I am super pleased they are bringing it back.
The other reason this news is great is because Apple will no doubt add the latest SD card tech — SD Express. That's basically a removable SSD in your Mac. Everybody who has "I don't need it so you shouldn't either" syndrome forgets that important detail.
Lastly, a lot of the disbelief that the SD card is coming back centers on all the bashing that has been going on since the SD card's demise. People who didn't need it, bashed those of us who did, claiming, "Apple will never go back! Ha!" And now that Apple is going back, it's hard for the bashers to backtrack all that bashing. The good news is that we who were bashed don't hold a grudge. We will get what we wanted all along, and those of you who still contend you don't need it, lose NOTHING. You simply can choose not to use that slot. And that's the great thing about it coming back — everybody is pleased in the end. Nobody loses anything. We only stand to gain!
You have made some good points and presented them well.
I will say that I’m in the camp I’m in because when those other ports come back I do lose something... I lose what could have taken that space and those resources instead. I’m a huge fan of having as many of the fastest most flexible and powerful “handle anything” port (currently thunderbolt 3/4) on laptops and nothing else because for every other specialized port you put on there it’s one less “handle anything” port. I lose that.
And for every “well they could just make it a bit bigger” line, my response is “and if they do that then I want them to make it bigger for more ‘handle anything’ ports not more specialized ports.”
Then there’s the question of where do you draw the line? Some people want HDMI but don’t care for SD. Other people are the other way around. And some want more USB-A, others don’t. Or Ethernet. Or whatever. And there’s good arguments for - and against - all of them.
And none of that considers what drives the ports -- how the PCIe lanes and whatever else in the chip, etc. are distributed among those ports and what's not available to other ports, or whatever.
Now, I say all this, not to disagree with your points. Your argument is a very good one, to point. I just want to point out that it’s not as simple as “no one loses anything". There's only so much space and resources in these machines, and for every port that's included something else is left out.
25 years ago Apple made a thing called the PowerBook Duo. It was a tiny (by the standards of the day) laptop with virtually no ports, but a kind of universal dock connector port, and you could attach any of a number of docks to it with whatever port arrangements you wanted on it. And with one of these docks connected, it molded into the shape of the laptop, it wasn't something hanging off the side or whatever.
Also, about 30 years go, there was the G3 laptop range. It had two compartments, one on each side, into which you could slide in any two of a number of modules. Modules included more battery, CD/DVD drive, various port adapters, etc.
If Apple could make the shape of the MBP something with a recessed compartment into which we could slide something like those form fitting hyperdrive docks, THAT's when we'd have the best of all worlds. Coming off the logic board could be the same four (or more?) thunderbolt ports we have today, and these docks could slide into position and in a sense "complete" the laptop with whatever port configurations an individual user might want.
Unfortunately, I think this kind of thing challenges Apple's aesthetics a little too much, such that I don't see that they're likely to do something like that. But... anyone else here who agrees with the idea -- why don't we all write to Tim (tcook@apple.com) and also post on Apple's feedback page (https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html) with these Ideas, and perhaps enough voices might change their minds.
Now this is the kind of excellent disagreement that I appreciate! You shared detailed thoughts on what you feel might become a lesser machine because of an added or restored feature. I can appreciate that kind of thinking. I especially like the P.B. Duo mention because I'm a vintage Mac fan. My first Mac was the 128K in 1984, in fact. So I follow what you mean completely.
I also send a lot of feedback to Apple, so I agree with your call to write Tim Cook. The last time I wrote Tim Cook was when my late 2009 iMac's video card went out just after my 3-year AppleCare was finished. He got an Apple executive in Singapore to give me a call (since I am in Japan), and they got me into an Apple store and had the card replaced for free. So yes, writing Apple matters. It matters a lot. "Ask and ye shall receive" to the T!
But in this case, where we are talking about the SD card slot, we stand to gain a lot. It's more than just cameras. SD Express is basically a removable SSD. I would be surprised if it wasn't SD Express. And with storage options locked at the time of purchase, having a removable SSD, while not in the same league as the internal SSD, would be a boon for many people even if something small was sacrificed for it. But with Apple controlling its own Silicon now, there may not be much of anything that is sacrificed to add the SD card slot back.
So while I can appreciate the universal love for USB-C -- a truly universal port that I too love -- I still have a great love for SD cards, especially the newest Express tech.
You made a good point about drawing the line. Apple often has said the most important thing they do is to say "no." They are true minimalists. But sometimes you have to draw the line on that and say No to those saying No. Sometimes you have to start saying Yes. Otherwise the end result is a lovely thing that is impossible to figure out or use in a practical way.
Lastly, I look forward to seeing mockup drawings of that recessed dock concept. Sometimes things are easier to visualize with a drawing.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
My Panasonic GH5 is still an extremely popular 4K video camera which doesn't link up to Macs like the newer Sonys. I shoot on SD and then remove the card and put that card into the SD card slot of my mid-2015 15" MBP. I use the SD card slot ALL THE TIME. It's far better than a stupid dongle which can easily be lost or misplaced or forgotten. Dongles also stick out of the machine and can easily be detached by accident. An internal solution is best, and I am super pleased they are bringing it back.
The other reason this news is great is because Apple will no doubt add the latest SD card tech — SD Express. That's basically a removable SSD in your Mac. Everybody who has "I don't need it so you shouldn't either" syndrome forgets that important detail.
Lastly, a lot of the disbelief that the SD card is coming back centers on all the bashing that has been going on since the SD card's demise. People who didn't need it, bashed those of us who did, claiming, "Apple will never go back! Ha!" And now that Apple is going back, it's hard for the bashers to backtrack all that bashing. The good news is that we who were bashed don't hold a grudge. We will get what we wanted all along, and those of you who still contend you don't need it, lose NOTHING. You simply can choose not to use that slot. And that's the great thing about it coming back — everybody is pleased in the end. Nobody loses anything. We only stand to gain!
You have made some good points and presented them well.
I will say that I’m in the camp I’m in because when those other ports come back I do lose something... I lose what could have taken that space and those resources instead. I’m a huge fan of having as many of the fastest most flexible and powerful “handle anything” port (currently thunderbolt 3/4) on laptops and nothing else because for every other specialized port you put on there it’s one less “handle anything” port. I lose that.
And for every “well they could just make it a bit bigger” line, my response is “and if they do that then I want them to make it bigger for more ‘handle anything’ ports not more specialized ports.”
Then there’s the question of where do you draw the line? Some people want HDMI but don’t care for SD. Other people are the other way around. And some want more USB-A, others don’t. Or Ethernet. Or whatever. And there’s good arguments for - and against - all of them.
And none of that considers what drives the ports -- how the PCIe lanes and whatever else in the chip, etc. are distributed among those ports and what's not available to other ports, or whatever.
Now, I say all this, not to disagree with your points. Your argument is a very good one, to point. I just want to point out that it’s not as simple as “no one loses anything". There's only so much space and resources in these machines, and for every port that's included something else is left out.
25 years ago Apple made a thing called the PowerBook Duo. It was a tiny (by the standards of the day) laptop with virtually no ports, but a kind of universal dock connector port, and you could attach any of a number of docks to it with whatever port arrangements you wanted on it. And with one of these docks connected, it molded into the shape of the laptop, it wasn't something hanging off the side or whatever.
Also, about 30 years go, there was the G3 laptop range. It had two compartments, one on each side, into which you could slide in any two of a number of modules. Modules included more battery, CD/DVD drive, various port adapters, etc.
If Apple could make the shape of the MBP something with a recessed compartment into which we could slide something like those form fitting hyperdrive docks, THAT's when we'd have the best of all worlds. Coming off the logic board could be the same four (or more?) thunderbolt ports we have today, and these docks could slide into position and in a sense "complete" the laptop with whatever port configurations an individual user might want.
Unfortunately, I think this kind of thing challenges Apple's aesthetics a little too much, such that I don't see that they're likely to do something like that. But... anyone else here who agrees with the idea -- why don't we all write to Tim (tcook@apple.com) and also post on Apple's feedback page (https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html) with these Ideas, and perhaps enough voices might change their minds.
Lmao, a long thought of nothing.
This is why your forum is evil and foolish. In fact every time I quit it makes me think better.
Me signing off, have your stupid port in your dream.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
I am making a lot of (>10 a month) presentations at conferences and in meeting rooms of customers. The current statistics are: 100% support for HDMI and less than 5% support of USB-C. The "mild inconvenience" is 3 lost HDMI dongles in 2 years and numerous occasions that I did not have my dongle with me, because I forgot it at the previous presentation location. And by the way, HDMI dongles and aesthetics are not compatible.
So don't extrapolate your use case to the world
Sorry, but if you are constantly losing and forgetting your adapter, you need to reevaluate how you do your job. If you had tethered your adapter to your power cord, would you still forget it? Or do you forget your power supply when you leave a presentation as well? Attach it to your keychain (they make keychain adapters)? Or do you forget/lose your keys too? Get one of those hubs that literally attaches to the side of your MacBook? Do you forget/lose your MacBook?
MplsP said: Now, 5 years after Phil Schiller proclaimed "USB C is the future" and dismissed the need for USB A, USB C is still relatively uncommon. I purchased an Apple keyboard last month and it came with a supposedly obsolete USB A cable on it. The fact is that USB A is still more common than USB C and since many/most USB C jacks are just USB 3.0 they have no advantage over USB A.
He was right, it very much is the future. Just because we haven't fully transitioned to a 100% USB-C world yet doesn't mean it's not going to be worth it once we do. It's not uncommon on Macs since all of them have it, and they're all TB3 ports at this point so not sure why you care if there are lower-specced USB-C jacks out there in the world — why would YOU be plugging anything into those? Or the "more common" USB-A jacks that are out there? How often are you plugging anything into someone else's computer, in reality?
As far as the keyboard — all desktop Macs still have USB-A ports, so why does this matter if the keyboard has a USB-A charging cord? Why would you want to use up a precious Thunderbolt 3 port if you could just use one of the USB-A's? You could also charge it with an old 5W iPhone charger you have around, etc.
I have a USB-C to A adapter on my keychain that I use every few months if there's some random thing I need it for, but it's so rare that I can't imagine what people are doing to create such misery in their own lives over this. I cannot wait for USB-A to die off just so people stop complaining about wanting to cling to a shitty outdated connector you have to flip three times before it goes into the port.
Except here's the problem. They eliminated USB A ports in 2016. Here we are 5 years into the future and USB A is still the dominant connector, even to the point that Apple is still packaging their peripherals with USB A cables. Since the average laptop lifespan is about 4 years, they were designing laptops for a future that wouldn't arrive during the average lifespan of the device. In essence they compromised functionality for their 'vision.' That's not good design; that's putting philosophy ahead of function.
Yes, as you point out, all desktops have USB A ports, which makes my point. USB A is not deprecated, outdated or obsolete. It is still a current, widely used standard which Apple willingly neglected. I'll give an even better example - every wireless mouse I've found uses a USB A dongle. Yes you can find bluetooth mice, but they are significantly more expensive and I have had far more issues with connections on bluetooth mice than 'regular' wireless mice. Even Apple's BT mouse.
As for the people who say "just carry around an adapter" or "it's your fault if you're not prepared," they bring to mind one of the 'get a Mac' commercial where the PC proclaims "Ask not what vista can do for you but what you can buy for Vista!" Pretty much every other laptop around has a USB A port. The more things you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget something (or inadvertently leave it behind.) Good design makes it easy for the user to use the product, it doesn't require the user to adapt and compensate.
Look, I get all those points. I appreciate Apple pushing the industry forward at the expense of some negatives for *some people* along the way. I personally have never ever needed an HDMI port on any Mac. My little USB-C SD card reader works great for my microSD cards from my drone or SD cards from my camera when I need it. I have a USB-A adapter on my keychain for the random time I need it, and it's usually when I'm fucking around with fixing someone else's gear. I have a USB-C hub on my desktop that has provides power as well as has mDP and USB-A for the things I use on my desktop with those cables (which I'll happily replace with USB-C cables when I need to) all over a single cable. It literally has not bothered me in the 2 years since I moved to all USB-C in my MBP. Every time I use a USB-A plug it drives me batty — they can't die off soon enough. And, they will — it's inevitable. I'm embracing it.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
Wouldn’t it be better not to have to carry that everywhere?
tlak about Stockholm syndrome!
Sure, but it's a very simple and easy solution for the MINORITY of users who use HDMI with their MacBooks. Like I said, I've never ever needed HDMI and don't plan to. Why should the majority be saddled with all the ports that random other users need if there's a simple solution that solves the problem? If your JOB is to do presentations, carrying a tiny, light tool that's always on you is a no-brainer.
Yet another case of the "I don't need it, so why would anybody else" syndrome.
Yet another case of "I need it, so everyone else should too" syndrome.
Well, no, jdw never said that. You said that. Jdw simply said there are people who use it as a reply to someone who said no one would use it. You distorted that to "everyone needs it" so you could have an argument.
So how do you know most pros are in desperate need for a HDMI?
Ummm...you’re doing the same thing. I never said ‘most pros are in desperate need for a HDMI.’ What I said was HDMI was far and away the most common video standard, and backed that up with evidence. But you win a prize for following auxio and changing what someone said so it fit your argument. I’ll see if I can find a gold start for you.
Crossing my fingers for a 5-1/4" floppy disk drive next
Or serial and parallel ports too, some pros still needs them ߤ㦬t;/div>
SCSI baby... back to the future!
Is it April 1st yet? So-called "pros" who can afford a $2k+ laptop but not a couple of adapters as a stopgap until their next camera upgrade? Riiight...
Nah, just pros who expect their professional portable equipment to be fully functional out of the box without having to carry a bunch of extra kit.
oh, the trouble with the TouchBar is it has never been fully embraced by developers, so it’s potential was never realised. For example, my daughter once disclosed to me she has it set up to replicate a fixed row of function keys most of the time, except for when she wants to message emojis. Emojis! That is a lot of hardware cost for the minimal extra functionality it delivers after five years. Not a success. Cutting it out represents savings. Whether the savings go to the buyer or Apple’s margins is a question for Tim Apple.
And eliminate the TouchBar? I use that every-single-time I use my Mac. It’s genius. They had better keep it.
To be fair, that's how some of us felt about USB-A ports, HDMI, headphone jacks, magsafe, and yes, even the SD card slot. Apple ditching three of those things is partly why I'm typing this on a Dell XPS. (That and an $800 price difference, and I'm fluent in Windows and macOS) I still use USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, and the headphone jack at least two or three times a week, and carrying around 3 or 4 dongles for such often-used features is a pain.
Oh we won't see Type-A going out anytime soon, they're so damn cheap to put one on your device. Then again, I could argue the same with RS-232 and Printer port too. How many years since the latest HDMI specification released? Do you think it's good to put your next design for a half decade with something couldn't even catch up? That all of their features is already in the Type-C?
Well HDMI 2.1 is a thing. It might making a come back but that's still easy to implement in Type-C. The latter, with DisplayPort 2.0, can go up to 16K.
You're right about the Touch Bar, though anything keyboard-related were almost never something that important, unless you f* up badly.
Except no RS-232 hasn’t been in widespread use for peripherals for years whereas USB A is still the dominant connector in the market place. You’re quite good at straw man arguments.
At this point, HDMI is essentially the USB A of video connections. USB HDMI 2.1 can technically go up to 8k, it’s ubiquitous, easy, and people have the cables. Sure, TB is superior for 5 and 8k monitors, but the vast majority of people don’t use those. I just bought a new monitor and the price difference between 4K and 5k is prohibitive, so unless people truly need the extra resolution they’re unlikely to pay for it. I can also say that it is far easier to find an HDMI or display port monitor than a USB C monitor. When I limited my choice to USB C the field dropped to just a handful of models. At some point Thunderbolt may overtake it, but not in the near term.
USB C also has a significant flaw in that it’s not a protocol, just a connector. If you see a USB C port, you have no idea whether it’s USB 3, thunderbolt, charging, some of the above or all of the above. And when you get a USB C cable, you have no idea what it’s capable of, either.
I was just about to say, you can't be the "Type-A of something" and "not the gold standard" at the same time, but anyway.
Nobody is saying HDMI definitely won't coming back, but certainly short-sighted if they do.
Just like that serial port, while it may be as popular today, it's big enough not to ignore it, ain't a rare sight to see someone PuTTY in through console port, Dell still have them on their desktops, too. Had it been another "HDMI", you'll be arguing why should they exist on the Mac too.
The problem is that whatever the RS-232 can do, so does the USB. This is exactly what HDMI compared to Type-C.
Saying it is the "Type-A of something" doesn't justify its place on Macs, as Type-A itself is slowly moving to an end. What Apple want for ports (and not you and me) is always something more capable rather than quantity. Just the way it is.
(By the way, none of you like to mention that the 15", 16" and M1 got more port bandwidth than pretty much any laptops out there, besides Alienware.)
So the only way to justify its place, like I said earlier, you need something the Type-C/Thunderbolt simply couldn't do.
Bandwidth? Not an issue. Features? Thunderbolt have audio interface as well. If anything, it can treat HDMI as a PCIe device, so long you have the cable. The only thing I can think of is they won't be as cheap as native cables, but that's a small price to pay.
Let along that monitors are moving towards Type-C (with DP) and licensing fees from HDMI-LA.
We're talking about a design that's for the next five years at least, so how big of a deal is it to lose something primarily dominated at TV sets? Even monitors today gotta have at least some DisplayPort to go with it.
HDMI doesn't need to 'come back;' it hasn't left. That's the point. Go to the store and look at any TV - you will see HDMI. Go to B&H and look at monitors - the most common connection is HDMI, and not by a little, either. That's what you seem to have a hard time understanding. HDMI is THE most common video interface in the market right now. (in case you didn't realize it, the mac mini has an HDMI port, too.)
The monitor example is just silly. First off, you could easily just get an adapter that lives on your HDMI cable attached to your monitor. I had a miniDP to USB-C attached to my dual-DVI to miniDP adapter attached to my dual-DVI Cinema Display for a year at two locations and didn't think twice about it when plugging it in to my Mac because it's just an extension of the cord. BUT the better solution is to get something with power delivery as well, so a cheapo hub attached to your HDMI cable that also has a USB-C port to your Mac WITH power delivery means you don't have to also plug into power separately! Those hubs have any number of other ports you need like USB-A, SD, microSD, ethernet, blah blah and cost like $30 and give you ONE cable to plug into at your desk.
Desktops like the mini basically have this hub built in, because there's ample room. It's NOT an example of Apple being hypocritical.
Meh. My dSLRs have moved on to XQD and CFexpress Type B.
I was wondering how many professional photographers still use SD cards.
And MagSafe over USB-C?
I still miss MagSafe - infinity easier to connect and more convenient. it was less obtrusive, too. I've tried using one of the USB-C/mag safe adapters and it was worthless. Since charging is the one thing that every single laptop owner does, having a dedicated charge port actually makes sense.
I’m surprised about HDMI... Many monitors support USB-C now and with Airplay for presentations the lack of HDMI was only a slight inconvenience, and a worthy omission from a design aesthetics point of view (and the push to USB-C).
As for SD, it’s nice to have but I wonder what the overall usage is versus other type of storage ports in cameras.
Sorry, HDMI is easily the most prevalent connection for video and is far and away more common than USB C for video. I recently purchased an external monitor for my MBP and restricting it to USB C severely limited my options. HDMI is also on every single TV sold, making it easy to connect to a TV if you want to. If you are presenting, the one connection you can be sure will be present in the conference room is... yup, HDMI.
You can say how other protocols may be technically better, but often times HDMI wins simply because it is the standard.
And you can get a single cable that has USB-C on one end & HDMI on the other - no dongle needed.
Except every one has a HDMI-HDMI cable. No one has a HDMI-USB C cable, so you're back to needing a dongle. (hint - that's what a standard is; something that virtually everyone has and uses)
Anyone who gives presentations for their job and doesn't already have an HDMI to USB-C adapter on their keychain is bad at preparing for their job.
While I'm aware of Mr. Kuo's higher-than-average track record, he does get some things very wrong from time to time and I think this is one of them. The Touch Bar is more useful to me in normal use, far more than the physical keys every were (but then I'm not a programmer). As for the ports claim, Apple has no interest in or motivation to make MBPs thicker, and if they did it would be for the purpose of increasing battery. I would be delighted if they can fit an HDMI in there directly, and the M1 (and future versions of the chip) does make it possible for more room to be freed up and one use of that might be more ports, but the whole reason to use USB 3 (soon to be 4) and TB3 (soon to be 4) is its speed and versatility. HDMI 2.x would be a very good idea because it will be in very wide use for along time to come; SD cards, probably not so much. All you'd get if you added those things would be people demanding eight USB-A ports, and I am here to tell you Apple is NOT going to go (back) there. Not a chance.
As for the Magsafe claim, this is the most unlikely part of the rumour IMO. If Kuo mean that Apple's going to put a ring of magnets on the bottom and develop a giant-ass Qi charger type pad for it to sit on, I might buy into that. Regressing to the previous definition(s) of MagSafe? That would be unprecedented, and effectively tossing away USB-C/TB3 as the more powerful, faster, and more ubiquitous charging option that it is. It borders on the nonsensical.
See, I challenge the premise. Kuo’s track record is higher than what average? Who’s actually keeping track for any sort of comparison? There’s a lot of confirmation bias built in for someone who seems somehow to assure that such claims about his track record are claimed with a weird regularity in articles quoting his predictions. Kuo gets some thing right, some things sort of right and some things wrong. There’s not much real accountability, because predictions and results are separated by too much time. There’s certainly no tracking of prognostication accuracy across the board to create any baseline average which Kuo can be higher-than, is there?
I don’t care that much about Kuo one way or another, but it’s a pet peeve. It irks me to see something thing taken as fact for no other reason than it’s seen repeated ad nauseam and rarely challenged.
Comments
Professional photographers are either uploading to portable HDs or have desktop HDs w/readers so they will connect those devices in typical fashion.
tlak about Stockholm syndrome!
This is why your forum is evil and foolish. In fact every time I quit it makes me think better.
Me signing off, have your stupid port in your dream.
I'm trying to follow your post and it's not easy - I'll assume autocorrect got the best of you, but here goes...
HDMI doesn't need to 'come back;' it hasn't left. That's the point. Go to the store and look at any TV - you will see HDMI. Go to B&H and look at monitors - the most common connection is HDMI, and not by a little, either. That's what you seem to have a hard time understanding. HDMI is THE most common video interface in the market right now. (in case you didn't realize it, the mac mini has an HDMI port, too.)
Apart from just being wrong, what you said about RS-232 makes absolutely no sense, so I'll let a nonsensical statement stand on its own.
No one disputes that TB has greater bandwidth; The justification for USB A and HDMI has nothing to do with their technical superiority or bandwidth. It has to do with their ubiquity and usefulness. This isn't a 'I need it' argument; it's a 'the world uses it' argument. The fact that Apple continues to use both in all their devices except MacBooks says that they actually recognize it, too.
At some point, USB C likely will take over in the mean time we all have to live and work in today's world, not what we expect the future world to be.
Art Lebedev Optimus Maximus OLED Keyboard, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042FWNMW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_R4K3TEFG1JSVKV6T8CCT
When I seek a feature to be RESTORED, it is not an unreasonable request at all, especially when that thing is still in wide use today. AND, the restoration of that feature doesn't harm you one single bit. When a feature is NOT restored, you could care less, but I feel disappointed.
And so, the syndrome only goes 1 way, my friend.
When I ask for something as per the Biblical command to "Ask and ye shall receive!" and then by a great miracle I receive something because I asked (I do send Apple a lot of feedback), here you come along trying to bash that great thing and take it away. I have taken nothing from you. I am merely a recipient of a blessing. The return of the SD card slot is indeed a blessing.
Perhaps now you can see why one thing is a syndrome and another is not. Even if you don't need a given thing, it's always nice to rejoice with your friends who wanted that thing and received it, rather than tear them to pieces only because you cannot find it within your heart to celebrate along side them. That is the entire point of everything I have written about the SD card slot to date.
Thank you!
I also send a lot of feedback to Apple, so I agree with your call to write Tim Cook. The last time I wrote Tim Cook was when my late 2009 iMac's video card went out just after my 3-year AppleCare was finished. He got an Apple executive in Singapore to give me a call (since I am in Japan), and they got me into an Apple store and had the card replaced for free. So yes, writing Apple matters. It matters a lot. "Ask and ye shall receive" to the T!
But in this case, where we are talking about the SD card slot, we stand to gain a lot. It's more than just cameras. SD Express is basically a removable SSD. I would be surprised if it wasn't SD Express. And with storage options locked at the time of purchase, having a removable SSD, while not in the same league as the internal SSD, would be a boon for many people even if something small was sacrificed for it. But with Apple controlling its own Silicon now, there may not be much of anything that is sacrificed to add the SD card slot back.
So while I can appreciate the universal love for USB-C -- a truly universal port that I too love -- I still have a great love for SD cards, especially the newest Express tech.
You made a good point about drawing the line. Apple often has said the most important thing they do is to say "no." They are true minimalists. But sometimes you have to draw the line on that and say No to those saying No. Sometimes you have to start saying Yes. Otherwise the end result is a lovely thing that is impossible to figure out or use in a practical way.
Lastly, I look forward to seeing mockup drawings of that recessed dock concept. Sometimes things are easier to visualize with a drawing.
Look, I get all those points. I appreciate Apple pushing the industry forward at the expense of some negatives for *some people* along the way. I personally have never ever needed an HDMI port on any Mac. My little USB-C SD card reader works great for my microSD cards from my drone or SD cards from my camera when I need it. I have a USB-A adapter on my keychain for the random time I need it, and it's usually when I'm fucking around with fixing someone else's gear. I have a USB-C hub on my desktop that has provides power as well as has mDP and USB-A for the things I use on my desktop with those cables (which I'll happily replace with USB-C cables when I need to) all over a single cable. It literally has not bothered me in the 2 years since I moved to all USB-C in my MBP. Every time I use a USB-A plug it drives me batty — they can't die off soon enough. And, they will — it's inevitable. I'm embracing it.
Desktops like the mini basically have this hub built in, because there's ample room. It's NOT an example of Apple being hypocritical.
There are also quite a few people who are not representative of *most* users and use cases expecting Apple to adapt to their needs.
I don’t care that much about Kuo one way or another, but it’s a pet peeve. It irks me to see something thing taken as fact for no other reason than it’s seen repeated ad nauseam and rarely challenged.